Best time to send Ben packing?

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Before he was hired is the correct answer to the question.

But it makes no sense to get rid of him this early in the season. I don't believe it gets you any competitive advantage in hiring the next coach. Big time athletic programs that make a coaching change always state they will "do a national and exhaustive search" but then hire the next coach in about 48 hours. Basically the leg work has already been done. Once/if Coyle makes the decision to move on, he should be putting out feelers through agents/whomever to have the next coach in his pocket.

That said, I don't believe Johnson's demise is as much a certainty as others on this board. I think the new NIL environment might help him more than hurt him as it could be viewed as not his fault. We also probably need to let this season play our past Thanksgiving, no? He could actually improve. I'm not holding my breath as I've never thought he had a high ceiling. But barring an epic collapse, I don't see them moving on before the end of the season. Apathy has already set in around this program so nothing to lose there.
 

golfing18now said:
Before he was hired is the correct answer to the question.

But it makes no sense to get rid of him this early in the season. I don't believe it gets you any competitive advantage in hiring the next coach. Big time athletic programs that make a coaching change always state they will "do a national and exhaustive search" but then hire the next coach in about 48 hours. Basically the leg work has already been done. Once/if Coyle makes the decision to move on, he should be putting out feelers through agents/whomever to have the next coach in his pocket.

That said, I don't believe Johnson's demise is as much a certainty as others on this board. I think the new NIL environment might help him more than hurt him as it could be viewed as not his fault. We also probably need to let this season play our past Thanksgiving, no? He could actually improve. I'm not holding my breath as I've never thought he had a high ceiling. But barring an epic collapse, I don't see them moving on before the end of the season. Apathy has already set in around this program so nothing to lose there.
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Well stated.

I think Ben's here for the duration of the season, barring perhaps one exception:

Gophers gets swept in Orlando by 2 of Wichita State/Florida/Wake Forest + lose the 2 December Big Ten games, and don't look improved at all doing so. If there's an in-season cord to be cut, that would be the time. The interim coach (presumably Thorson) then at least would have a good chance to get off to a 2-0 start with assumed cupcakes FDU & Morgan State.

Let's win a pair in Orlando & make it a moot conversation
 

SelectionSunday said:
Well stated.

I think Ben's here for the duration of the season, barring perhaps one exception:

Gophers gets swept in Orlando by 2 of Wichita State/Florida/Wake Forest + lose the 2 December Big Ten games, and don't look improved at all doing so. If there's an in-season cord to be cut, that would be the time. The interim coach (presumably Thorson) then at least would have a good chance to get off to a 2-0 start with assumed cupcakes FDU & Morgan State.

Let's win a pair in Orlando & make it a moot conversation
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That's virtually the same scenario in which forced Maturi to ultimately fire Monson on 2006. Gophers got swept (0-3) Orlando over Thanksgiving then came back the Barn and got drilled by Virginia Clemson in the ACC-Big 10 Challenge.

Gone. Tubby Time. Eventually.
 
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SelectionSunday said:
Well stated.

I think Ben's here for the duration of the season, barring perhaps one exception:

Gophers gets swept in Orlando by 2 of Wichita State/Florida/Wake Forest + lose the 2 December Big Ten games, and don't look improved at all doing so. If there's an in-season cord to be cut, that would be the time. The interim coach (presumably Thorson) then at least would have a good chance to get off to a 2-0 start with assumed cupcakes FDU & Morgan State.

Let's win a pair in Orlando & make it a moot conversation
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If this is the case, then expect Ben to be unemployed before Christmas because this team is not beating Wichita State or the next opponent in the Thanksgiving tournament. Then comes two thumpings at the hands of MSU and IU.

Ben seems like an upstanding guy. No crap has gone down with his players, but awful basketball cannot be applauded.
 



GophersInIowa said:
Sometimes, yes. But I don't think the Gophers can live off of only transfers. It hasn't gone well so far. Still has to be some balance between development and transfers IMO.
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I saw an article that discusses how Shaka Smart is winning without using the portal much. It can be done.
 

bga1 said:
You make some good points SON. However, the bolded statements above conflict to some degree.
There is the possibility that the U decides that the way forward will be to revenue share with athletes and stick with a lower paid coach like Ben with the idea that they move back towards building a program primarily with HS recruits as opposed to so much emphasis on the portal. The transfers get the big money as compared to most HS recruits (other than the 5* types.

I would presume that the 20 million the U has for revenue sharing will be on a par with other Big Ten schools but much richer than most other conferences could generate. Not sure- just putting that out there.

Bottom line- I could see this saving Ben, with the U claiming that they are going to reset strategy to attract better players and retain them.
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as I understand it - and all of this is subject to change if/when the settlement gets final approval in the Spring - D1 schools will have a cap that they can provide for revenue sharing. I've seen $20-million as an estimate. It's generally believed that all of the power-conference schools will offer revenue sharing. but schools can choose not to participate.

in the B1G, I assume that all schools will opt in and spend to the cap. any school that decided not to participate would be at a huge competitive disadvantage. the real question will be schools in conferences that do not have big TV deals - like G5 schools in football and mid-majors in basketball.

and - still to be determined is whether there will be any new rules or restrictions placed on NIL. the NCAA would like to see a crackdown on "pay to play" NIL, but it's doubtful they can get that past the Judge, so we may very well have a system where players can get NIL along with revenue-sharing.
 

Roland Brooks said:
I think hey gets a 5th year.. No I didn’t think he deserves it.. I got a feeling with Asuma this year and a solid recruiting class next year Coyle will somehow justify one more year.. IMO.. Hope I am wrong
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What is a solid recruiting class? To me that means top 20 in the country and top 4 in the conference.
Gopher Ally said:
Coyle always has a short list in his pocket, however, With the emergence of Asuma and Ben putting together a nice recruiting class with Jefferson announcing yesterday, we’ll see what happens
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Put it this way, if this kid turns out to be really good after this season he is GONE. Also don't get fooled into thinking a recruiting class is good just because they post fancy pictures on twitter. Top 4 in the conference or its just more of the same. Plus you have to remember a commitment means nothing these days.
 

This school would take chips made with olestra over normal fattening chips. Same goes for basketball.
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Unless the Gophers are truly dreadful....it probably doesn't happen during the season.
 

Ope3 said:
That's virtually the same scenario in which forced Maturi to ultimately fire Monson on 2006. Gophers got swept (0-3) Orlando over Thanksgiving then came back the Barn and got drilled by Virginia in the ACC-Big 10 Challenge.

Gone. Tubby Time. Eventually.
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Clemson drilled us that night. It’s still the absolute worst feeling I’ve ever had at the
Barn. Miserable night and obvious Dan had lost the team really early. Minor adjustment to the analogy is that 0-3 Orlando trip included losses to two dogs, Marist for sure and I think one of the Montana schools. This year’s Florida MTE has considerably better competition. A loss to Wake or Florida carries no shame. Marist will every time.
 


I'm in complete agreement that the play so far has been pretty awful, and if the Gophers have a poor record in the Big Ten again Johnson will be gone. And I also want to see what they have when Mitchell and Tyler Cochran play. Cochran was all-league in the MAC and was the co-defensive player of the year. These two can partly address what we've seen so far from this team: horrible outside shooting and an inability to get to the rim-Mitchell provides some of the former and Cochran provides some of the latter.

This is their starting backcourt we're talking about. And I don't believe their return makes them an instant tourney team, but it makes them a whole lot better. So here are the reasons why they have the ability to become at least a mediocre team:
  • While they've been God-awful offensively, they have a number of guys who in my opinion are solid defenders (and I realize they haven't played high caliber teams). In Cochran, Odukale, Rigsby, and Asuma (the guy can move laterally really well!), they have guys who can defend Big Ten players.
  • Remember how poorly Hawkins and Mitchell were at the beginning of last year, and how much better they got as the season progressed-some of that will happen this year
  • Good defensive teams can compete in the Big Ten, and I think this will be a fairly good team defensively (and yes, offense is needed as well!)
  • In addition to Mitchell, who we know can shoot, Rigsby and Cochran both shot about 35% from 3 last year-not great, but not awful. Rigsby is at 27% so far, Patterson is at 16%, and Asuma is at 28%-it can only get better.
All I'm saying is that I'm in agreement that it's been pretty awful so far, but I want to wait to see how they play when they get their backcourt set. I think they'll be a bit better than people are believing right now.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
as I understand it - and all of this is subject to change if/when the settlement gets final approval in the Spring - D1 schools will have a cap that they can provide for revenue sharing. I've seen $20-million as an estimate. It's generally believed that all of the power-conference schools will offer revenue sharing. but schools can choose not to participate.

in the B1G, I assume that all schools will opt in and spend to the cap. any school that decided not to participate would be at a huge competitive disadvantage. the real question will be schools in conferences that do not have big TV deals - like G5 schools in football and mid-majors in basketball.

and - still to be determined is whether there will be any new rules or restrictions placed on NIL. the NCAA would like to see a crackdown on "pay to play" NIL, but it's doubtful they can get that past the Judge, so we may very well have a system where players can get NIL along with revenue-sharing.
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It àlso depends how you opt to spend the money. If you give any money to non revenue sports it will immediately put you at a disadvantage.
 

Formerswish said:
I'm in complete agreement that the play so far has been pretty awful, and if the Gophers have a poor record in the Big Ten again Johnson will be gone. And I also want to see what they have when Mitchell and Tyler Cochran play. Cochran was all-league in the MAC and was the co-defensive player of the year. These two can partly address what we've seen so far from this team: horrible outside shooting and an inability to get to the rim-Mitchell provides some of the former and Cochran provides some of the latter.

This is their starting backcourt we're talking about. And I don't believe their return makes them an instant tourney team, but it makes them a whole lot better. So here are the reasons why they have the ability to become at least a mediocre team:
  • While they've been God-awful offensively, they have a number of guys who in my opinion are solid defenders (and I realize they haven't played high caliber teams). In Cochran, Odukale, Rigsby, and Asuma (the guy can move laterally really well!), they have guys who can defend Big Ten players.
  • Remember how poorly Hawkins and Mitchell were at the beginning of last year, and how much better they got as the season progressed-some of that will happen this year
  • Good defensive teams can compete in the Big Ten, and I think this will be a fairly good team defensively (and yes, offense is needed as well!)
  • In addition to Mitchell, who we know can shoot, Rigsby and Cochran both shot about 35% from 3 last year-not great, but not awful. Rigsby is at 27% so far, Patterson is at 16%, and Asuma is at 28%-it can only get better.
All I'm saying is that I'm in agreement that it's been pretty awful so far, but I want to wait to see how they play when they get their backcourt set. I think they'll be a bit better than people are believing right now.
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Neither Mike Mitchell nor Cochran should be running the point, but you are right that they will help.
 

bga1 said:
Neither Mike Mitchell nor Cochran should be running the point, but you are right that they will help.
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I don't disagree with that, but it's what they have. And there's a chance Asuma will be running it by the end of the year. He's a talent, and once he becomes a bit more comfortable and aggressive, he'd be their best choice.
 

Formerswish said:
I don't disagree with that, but it's what they have. And there's a chance Asuma will be running it by the end of the year. He's a talent, and once he becomes a bit more comfortable and aggressive, he'd be their best choice.
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If Ben wants a good season he'd be wise to let Asuma run it now. He is getting big minutes and that is good. Make the minutes count at the point, running an offense that doesn't involve dribbling around in place.
 


Big Dawg said:
Let's face it, Ben will not be coaching the Gophers in 2025/2026. Rarely are coaches fired in December so I'm guessing that won't happen. With the bottom 3 in the BIG(18) NOT going to the BIG tournament when the Gophers are locked into one of those bottom three slots that will be a good time to hand him the pink slip. It will most likely be with 2-3 games remaining in the regular season. Firing him then will give the Gophers a head start on a coaching search prior to other teams even finishing their season. I would target the top 3 coaches in any non P6 conference.
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Another thread about coaching??

The coaching is good. The coach has brought in and developed many VALUABLE players in the last 2 years.

The problem has always been our administration. They sabotaged Haskins', Tubby's, and Pitino's best teams. We'd be a great program...the issue is NOT coaching.
 

The 2025 recruits should have zero impact on Ben's status. There will always be incoming recruits. Unless there are a couple Tyus Jones' among them, they don't matter.

NCAAs or you're fired. As soon as it becomes clear that can't happen, the move should be made.
 

howeda7 said:
The 2025 recruits should have zero impact on Ben's status. There will always be incoming recruits. Unless there are a couple Tyus Jones' among them, they don't matter.

NCAAs or you're fired. As soon as it becomes clear that can't happen, the move should be made.
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Shucks, if that was the criteria then we are already a few years past the expiration date. :)
 


howeda7 said:
One in four years is more than fair.
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You missed the point... "As soon as it becomes clear that can't happen"... I'm saying i have already reached that conclusion in previous seasons. Maybe if you add the word, again ie "...can't happen again.". Then it makes more sense for me.
 

bga1 said:
If Ben wants a good season he'd be wise to let Asuma run it now. He is getting big minutes and that is good. Make the minutes count at the point, running an offense that doesn't involve dribbling around in place.
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This is sounding a lot like the conversations we had about Jelly a few years back. “Just give him the ball and see what happens. “
 


Holy Man said:
This is sounding a lot like the conversations we had about Jelly a few years back. “Just give him the ball and see what happens. “
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You’re a fine candidate for preposterous statement of the year. No way Asuma is another Jelly. He can play defense and he doesn’t have a silly finger roll that gets blocked every time he tries it.
 





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