Ben Johnson on losing 10 players: "I don't take things personally."

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Johnnyboy18 said:
Ryan James has never said this.
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He said it in a far more nuanced and politically correct way than I just did, but he said it multiple times in mid-March in the GI threads when Dennis Gates was the leader. He said with the recent events in Minneapolis, the Board of Regents was insisting on hiring a minority coach, given that all of our major sports (or possibly all, I don’t know) had white coaches.

I think Coyle is a talented guy, and there is no other reason Ben Johnson would be on a top 20 list of potential coaches. He’s the worst POS hire our school has ever made, far worse than Brewster, and is already setting the basketball program back 5 more years based on the gutting we’ve seen since he’s been here.
 

alchemy2u said:
Not true. You do not have all of the information that Coyle did when he made the decision. You are making assumptions based upon your opinions and projecting them as the truth. Why do you think that Coyle would just settle for an inferior hire for the BB coach when he has a track record of getting exactly the coach he wanted in Football, Women BB and Hockey, etc.. The Men's BB coaching hire has some similarities to hiring Whalen for the Women's job. I feel very strongly that Coye hired exactly who he wanted to hire for the Men's BB coach. You can disagree with the choice if you like, but do not assume Coyle is an idiot.
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Do you have all the information Coyle had when making the decision?
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Some here will not accept Coyle hired who he wanted.
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The Gophers may have settled with this hire and this coach may not be who Coyle really wanted on a personal level. However, even if both of those things are true, the end conclusion is: so what? You don't withdraw a job offer once it's been accepted and employers throughout industry "settle" with hires all of the time. Many of those hires turn out to be just fine.
 


alchemy2u said:
I have no idea and really none of us have any idea. I do suspect that Ben was not going to beg anyone to stay. If a player was not willing to buy into his system, then yes, of course Ben would not want them to stay.

As has been repeatedly pointed out, Coach Johnson is going to establish the foundation of his program culture right from the start. No dissent, conflicting priorities or lack of dedication in the locker room, period.

PJ kept describing it as his culture and PJ had players leave the first year. PJ also had some skeptics in the locker room that he either won over or they then left the next year.

Of course Ben wants the best players on the team, but he is focused right now on establishing the best "team attitude" and culture. He is not willing to sacrifice those goals to cater to a specific player.
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So all the guys from MN that transferred in have the best "team attitude" and culture? And opposite for those that left.

Results are what matter in the end. Either he gets it done, or not.
 


John Galt said:
He’s the worst POS hire our school has ever made, far worse than Brewster, and is already setting the basketball program back 5 more years based on the gutting we’ve seen since he’s been here.
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Wow! That's dramatic. A phrase like "the worst POS hire our school has ever made" truly reveals your intense hatred of anything that even has a whiff of affirmative action. If you want to see a real "POS" just look in the mirror.
 

cjbfbp said:
Wow! That's dramatic. A phrase like "the worst POS hire our school has ever made" truly reveals your intense hatred of anything that even has a whiff of affirmative action. If you want to see a real "POS" just look in the mirror.
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Simply hire the most qualified. Hatred doesn't register. I hope upon hope that Johnson wildly succeeds. That doesn't diminish the fact MN did not hire the best qualified.
 



John Galt said:
He said it in a far more nuanced and politically correct way than I just did, but he said it multiple times in mid-March in the GI threads when Dennis Gates was the leader. He said with the recent events in Minneapolis, the Board of Regents was insisting on hiring a minority coach, given that all of our major sports (or possibly all, I don’t know) had white coaches.

I think Coyle is a talented guy, and there is no other reason Ben Johnson would be on a top 20 list of potential coaches. He’s the worst POS hire our school has ever made, far worse than Brewster, and is already setting the basketball program back 5 more years based on the gutting we’ve seen since he’s been here.
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Ryan never said anything close to this. Stop making things up.

Pitino set the program back to the Monson era and Johnson has to dig his way out.
 

BarnBurner said:
Simply hire the most qualified. Hatred doesn't register.
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Sorry, as reasonable as the first statement is, failure to do that doesn't justify hatred of the hired individual. Furthermore:

1) determining the "most qualified" is an art, not a science; and

2) even if #1 can be determined with reasonable accuracy, employers throughout the world on a daily basis fail to hire the "most qualified" for all sorts of reasons.

Pitino was hired in part because of his name. I don't remember that generating such intense hostility towards him at the time.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Pitino set the program back to the Monson era and Johnson has to dig his way out.
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I've disliked Pitino since his second season and I'm thrilled that he is gone. However, when people make statements like this I feel compelled to correct them. Pitino didn't set back this program in any meaningful way. He just was unsuccessful and under-performed his predecessor but he didn't do any lasting damage to this program. The program wasn't hit with sanctions and the mass exodus can't be blamed on him. That falls on the players' choices in an unprecedented environment.

There's nothing wrong with this program that one successful coach can't cure (at least temporarily). Finally, it's incorrect to view most programs on an evolutionary trajectory where they should be moving continuously upward over time. Most programs have their high and low periods and mostly those are coach dependent. If a team is fortunate, the highs last longer than the lows. Pitino was a low but he wasn't a program destroyer.
 



BarnBurner said:
Simply hire the most qualified. Hatred doesn't register. I hope upon hope that Johnson wildly succeeds. That doesn't diminish the fact MN did not hire the best qualified.
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Contrary to your opinions and assumptions, Coyle hired who he wanted to hired. Qualifications include more than just experience. Every hiring manager has to determine the best fit for each job.
 

cjbfbp said:
Sorry, as reasonable as the first statement is, failure to do that doesn't justify hatred of the hired individual. Furthermore:

1) determining the "most qualified" is an art, not a science; and

2) even if #1 can be determined with reasonable accuracy, employers throughout the world on a daily basis fail to hire the "most qualified" for all sorts of reasons.
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cjbfbp said:
Pitino was hired in part because of his name. I don't remember that generating such intense hostility towards him at the time.
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I wasn't on GH at the time, but considering there are many savvy posters here, it seems like everyone knew Teague as an idiot and fired tubby with no plan, struck out on all his top choices, and was left scrambling when he hired Pitino. Pitino did have his last name, experience under hall of fame coaches, and 1 season as a head coach that looked promising for things to grasp at.
 

At the end of the day the team wasn't going to be very good with the previous players and they aren't going to be good with the current players. 21/22 season will likely be a messy messy deal. Here's hoping that the highlight of the year is some good news on the 22 recruiting front.
 

alchemy2u said:
Contrary to your opinions and assumptions, Coyle hired who he wanted to hired. Qualifications include more than just experience. Every hiring manager has to determine the best fit for each job.
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You just said you didnt have all the information, and then make this statement!!!!! The committee made the determination, Coyle made the offer and played his role.

Yes, determining the best fit is essential. That best fit surely must include experience in the role. BJ had zero.
 

cjbfbp said:
Sorry, as reasonable as the first statement is, failure to do that doesn't justify hatred of the hired individual. Furthermore:

1) determining the "most qualified" is an art, not a science; and

2) even if #1 can be determined with reasonable accuracy, employers throughout the world on a daily basis fail to hire the "most qualified" for all sorts of reasons.

Pitino was hired in part because of his name. I don't remember that generating such intense hostility towards him at the time.
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There is little, if any, intense hostility based on the hiring of BJ. Stop making shit up.

There is quite a bit of wonder and more than a few questions about how a Craig Smith was not even interviewed, nor any other head coach with a track record.

You can "determine" the most qualified in many ways; that is what has happened here.
 

cjbfbp said:
I've disliked Pitino since his second season and I'm thrilled that he is gone. However, when people make statements like this I feel compelled to correct them. Pitino didn't set back this program in any meaningful way. He just was unsuccessful and under-performed his predecessor but he didn't do any lasting damage to this program. The program wasn't hit with sanctions and the mass exodus can't be blamed on him. That falls on the players' choices in an unprecedented environment.

There's nothing wrong with this program that one successful coach can't cure (at least temporarily). Finally, it's incorrect to view most programs on an evolutionary trajectory where they should be moving continuously upward over time. Most programs have their high and low periods and mostly those are coach dependent. If a team is fortunate, the highs last longer than the lows. Pitino was a low but he wasn't a program destroyer.
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I disagree, not being relevant for the majority of a tenure does damage to a program. Finishing towards the bottom of the conference year after year does damage to a program. Not landing and recruiting local players that do well elsewhere does damage to a program. All of this adds up and leads to the current national perception of the Gophers program. If Johnson does the same thing for 8 years the perception will be even worse.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I wasn't on GH at the time, but considering there are many savvy posters here, it seems like everyone knew Teague as an idiot and fired tubby with no plan, struck out on all his top choices, and was left scrambling when he hired Pitino. Pitino did have his last name, experience under hall of fame coaches, and 1 season as a head coach that looked promising for things to grasp at.
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People know that Teague was an idiot now for the same reason people know that Pitino was a poor coach coaching choice now: subsequent history. I don't think anyone said at the time "Teague is such an idiot so there should be little doubt that he'll fuck up this hire."

I think it's fair to assume that both Teague and Coyle had some financial constraints involved in their decisions. No AD is going to say: "This was the best I could do with the money available."

Teague actually had a bit tougher of a sell I think. We didn't have the facilities we have now and undoubtedly the TV revenue was significantly lower then. Finally, Teague's decision to fire Tubby (who never had a losing season and had five postseason appearances in 6 years) likely made possible candidates think that the potential risks of this job outweighed the rewards and advantages of the position. Since someone like Pitino just lasted 8 years in the job and the facilities and TV revenue are improved, the risks and rewards might be a little more in balance now.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
He just let the kids walk. He didn’t reach out and communicate with them and they left. Possibly that is what he wanted so he could craft his own team.
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How do you know this? You have implied numerous times in the past about Ben being lazy and never leaving his office and other things that make it seem like you have inside info., or you want people to think you do.

Do you? Who have you spoken to?
 

DanvilleGopher said:
How do you know this? You have implied numerous times in the past about Ben being lazy and never leaving his office and other things that make it seem like you have inside info., or you want people to think you do.

Do you? Who have you spoken to?
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When you think about replying to Spaulding just say to yourself... Spaulding! No!

100% troll account.
 

John Galt said:
According to Ryan James, the U needed a diversity hire and it was a non-negotiable chip Coyle had to play. When he struck out on Dennis Gates, Johnson was his only option.
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Are we just looking for racist angles now? Every human is diverse from the next human so any hire is a diversity hire.
Damn the negativity from GH members regarding Ben Johnson's hire is just tiresome. It is showing the latent racism in members that really disappoints me.
Just accept the hire and wish for the best or leave. We're still 5 months out from any game and y'all are saying the sky is falling. It's pathetic.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
I disagree, not being relevant for the majority of a tenure does damage to a program. Finishing towards the bottom of the conference year after year does damage to a program. Not landing and recruiting local players that do well elsewhere does damage to a program. All of this adds up and leads to the current national perception of the Gophers program. If Johnson does the same thing for 8 years the perception will be even worse.
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The important question isn't whether temporary damage has been done. The important question is whether any long-term damage has been done. I heard this same thing from Iowa fans after Todd Lickliter's dreadful three year tenure (.396 overall winning percentage; by contrast, Pitino had an overall winning percentage of .534 here) but it didn't take long for McCaffrey to dig out of that hole.

This could be a long low period or it could be relatively short one for the program. The one mentioned above was relatively short but only because the successor coach performed much better. The University of Houston is an example of a team with a much longer low stretch. When Guy Lewis was coach they had multiple great teams and his successor, Pat Foster, had fair ones. After Foster left, they had a stretch of 11 seasons with only two winning ones. They had a stretch of 25 seasons with only 1 NCAA tournament appearance until Kelvin Sampson got the ball rolling in recent years. Now they're finally back to the level of the Guy Lewis era.
 



BarnBurner said:
You just said you didnt have all the information, and then make this statement!!!!! The committee made the determination, Coyle made the offer and played his role.

Yes, determining the best fit is essential. That best fit surely must include experience in the role. BJ had zero.
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So what info do you have to prove your point that he was forced to settle for an inferior coach, none!

Coyle has a proven track record of his hires at the U. To say that Coyle hired who he wanted is not a very risky conclusion based upon what he has actually said and by the fact they concluded the process quickly after the other candidates were available.
 

alchemy2u said:
So what info do you have to prove your point that he was forced to settle for an inferior coach, none!

Coyle has a proven track record of his hires at the U. To say that Coyle hired who he wanted is not a very risky conclusion based upon what he has actually said and by the fact they concluded the process quickly after the other candidates were available.
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Proven track record?

PJ has done pretty well, hardly a proven track record.

Lindsay? Please.

BM? Nope.
 

Bud Grant "I’ve always said this, coaches don’t win football games. Players win football games. Coaches are a dime a dozen. You get all kinds of coaches that know X’s and O’s. You gotta accumulate (players), manage and put them in the right places and recognize their talents. That’s what wins football games, not coaches. Lots of great coaches out there"

Seems to me the same could be said for basketball.
 

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