Ben Johnson is a Disaster

[TwistingMyMelon]

The team went 6-14 in conference play and the trajectory of the program was not good in Pitino's 8th year which is why he got fired.

Let's remember that his both of his last two years were losing seasons. I tired of Pitino fairly early in his tenure but he seemed to be able to alternate good and bad years until the end. After the conclusion of his 7th season (a losing one), I thought it would take consecutive losing seasons for him to be fired. Despite reasons for optimism going into Year 8 and a darn good start, that finally happened.

 

[Gophers7633]

And those teams didn't do anything in the tournament because the conference wasn't good.

The conference was much better in 2021 than this year's version. As evidenced by the total of 15 Q1 games we played that year. This year we've only played 7(will be 9 by the end of the year). Judging anything off a 1 game sample size doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Illinois and OSU were very good teams in 2021. Michigan did make the E8.

 

[BarnBurner]

The conference was much better in 2021 than this year's version. As evidenced by the total of 15 Q1 games we played that year. This year we've only played 7(will be 9 by the end of the year). Judging anything off a 1 game sample size doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Illinois and OSU were very good teams in 2021. Michigan did make the E8.

You can't convince the CBJ Protection Detail that the conference is a shell of itself this season.

 

[MonikerSchmoniker45]

You can't convince the CBJ Protection Detail that the conference is a shell of itself this season.

You keep saying this. Who are these posters that don't think the conference is down?

 

[skiumah1]

Seemed like Ben was going to get 4 years as long as we showed some progress this year. The question for me was whether that 4th would be a waste of time or not.

Sure doesn't seem like next year will be a waste. It'll be fun to go into a year again where expectations are high. Hopefully Ben proves he can make it happen and keep the job long-term.

Seems like a 50/50 at this point.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

The conference was much better in 2021 than this year's version. As evidenced by the total of 15 Q1 games we played that year. This year we've only played 7(will be 9 by the end of the year). Judging anything off a 1 game sample size doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Illinois and OSU were very good teams in 2021. Michigan did make the E8.

If the entire conference ranking is skewed that will lead to more Q1 games and inflated net rankings/whatever computer rankings you want to use. If it was just 1 game sure but it wasn't. Only 1 team made it past the 2nd round. There was like 5-7 nonconference games for the whole year.

 

[Gophers7633]

If the entire conference ranking is skewed that will lead to more Q1 games and inflated net rankings/whatever computer rankings you want to use. If it was just 1 game sure but it wasn't. Only 1 team made it past the 2nd round. There was like 5-7 nonconference games for the whole year.

The NET ranking hasn't changed it's formula. It's only based on games that have been played. I don't really understand how something can be inflated when it's taking into accont what has happened? I get the non conference was shortened, but even then, the league won 83% of it's non conference games as opposed to 76% this year. There were 9 top 50 NET teams in 2021. This year there are 5(as of now). I get only 1 team made it past the R32. That still doesn't disqualify what happened during the season.

Are you of the belief the league isn't down this season?

 

[Johnnyboy18]

The NET ranking hasn't changed it's formula. It's only based on games that have been played. I don't really understand how something can be inflated when it's taking into accont what has happened? I get the non conference was shortened, but even then, the league won 83% of it's non conference games as opposed to 76% this year. There were 9 top 50 NET teams in 2021. This year there are 5(as of now). I get only 1 team made it past the R32. That still doesn't disqualify what happened during the season.

Are you of the belief the league isn't down this season?

It's similar to that year and are 2nd in net rankings currently.

They won 83% of the nonconference games because they played mostly regional schools and some of the large tournaments didn't happen. Pretty easy to figure out. The conference champion Michigan hardest game in the NC was UCF.

 

[Gophers7633]

It's similar to that year and are 2nd in net rankings currently.

They won 83% of the nonconference games because they played mostly regional schools and some of the large tournaments didn't happen. Pretty easy to figure out. The conference champion Michigan hardest game in the NC was UCF.

The cumulative OOC SoS for the conference in 2021 was 182. The cumulative OOC SoS for the conference this season, is currently, 173. The difference is pretty minimal.

I'd say adding 10 more wins against relatively the same schedule strength, would have done wonders for the perception of the league. Which is what would have been needed to reach winning 83% of the non conference games.

You think the 2021 B1G season and this season are similar? You think the B1G will get 9 teams in the tournament?

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Obviously if this is the high water mark that is a problem but if the team is consistently finishing at least .500 in conference play that would represent a level of success this program has not experienced for quite some time.

The team went 6-14 in conference play and the trajectory of the program was not good in Pitino's 8th year which is why he got fired. I could give a crap what KenPom says, the program is trending in the right direction after 2 rough years. As long as that continues Ben will be the coach, if the team slips back in the other direction he will get fired.

Just look at some of the “scholarship players” on that team as well; there were some Uber reaches in the 8 year - can you imagine the howling if Sam, Kenny, or from previous rosters, Gas or Bakery were lacing them up?

 

[Johnnyboy18]

The cumulative OOC SoS for the conference in 2021 was 182. The cumulative OOC SoS for the conference this season, is currently, 173. The difference is pretty minimal.

I'd say adding 10 more wins against relatively the same schedule strength, would have done wonders for the perception of the league. Which is what would have been needed to reach winning 83% of the non conference games.

You think the 2021 B1G season and this season are similar? You think the B1G will get 9 teams in the tournament?

Feel free to go look up the nonconference schedule for each team. I'm not lying. The league didn't play anyone (neither did other conferences). The Gophers schedule this year was considered normal during that season. They proceeded to get exposed as overrated in the tournament.

They got 9 teams in because the conference was overrated pretty simple. In reality there was probably 4 good teams.

NCAA Tournament 2021: What happened to Big Ten Basketball?

Big Ten Basketball was widely recognized as the best in college basketball this season. So what happened to those teams in the NCAA Tournament?

bustingbrackets.com

The Big Ten has flopped in the NCAA tournament. Was it overrated all along?

Nine Big Ten teams secured NCAA tournament bids on Selection Sunday, more than any other league in college basketball. Eight days later, Michigan is the only one still alive.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Gophers7633]

Feel free to go look up the nonconference schedule for each team. I'm not lying. The league didn't play anyone (neither did other conferences). The Gophers schedule this year was considered normal during that season. They proceeded to get exposed as overrated in the tournament.

They got 9 teams in because the conference was overrated pretty simple. In reality there was probably 4 good teams.

NCAA Tournament 2021: What happened to Big Ten Basketball?

Big Ten Basketball was widely recognized as the best in college basketball this season. So what happened to those teams in the NCAA Tournament?

bustingbrackets.com

I didn't say you were. And I did. The avg OOC SOS for the conference in 2021 was 182. This season it's 173. And again tournament performance isn't an indication of incorrect seeding/selection. They can only go off of what has happened during the regular season. Purdue most definitely deserved a 1 seed last year, despite losing in the R64. Same with UVA in 2018.

Like I said earlier, the same NET formula that has 5 top 50 teams had 9 in 2021. And 8 in 2022. And 9 in 2023.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Feel free to go look up the nonconference schedule for each team. I'm not lying. The league didn't play anyone (neither did other conferences). The Gophers schedule this year was considered normal during that season. They proceeded to get exposed as overrated in the tournament.

They got 9 teams in because the conference was overrated pretty simple. In reality there was probably 4 good teams.

NCAA Tournament 2021: What happened to Big Ten Basketball?

Big Ten Basketball was widely recognized as the best in college basketball this season. So what happened to those teams in the NCAA Tournament?

bustingbrackets.com

The Big Ten has flopped in the NCAA tournament. Was it overrated all along?

Nine Big Ten teams secured NCAA tournament bids on Selection Sunday, more than any other league in college basketball. Eight days later, Michigan is the only one still alive.

sports.yahoo.com

I don't disagree with you about the post covid non conference schedule, but this year's B1G is likely the weakest it has been in years. They have 2 ranked teams right now.

While the NCAA tournament is the most fun postseason tournament in all of sports, it's also the worst at determining who the best overall team in the country is. There's a reason the NBA play' series in the playoffs.

Last year's final four featured teams from the Mountain West, Conference USA, the ACC which was as down as this years B1G, and the Big East. UConn won it all despite finishing 4th in the conference during the regular season, and losing in the 2nd round of the BE tournament. And they weren't even challenged in any game.

There was no Big 12, no B1G, and no SEC, so I'm sure the Mountain West and Conference USA were superior to those 3 leagues. I bet Florida Atlantic would have crushed it in the Big 12.

 

[Gophers7633]

I don't disagree with you about the post covid non conference schedule, but this year's B1G is likely the weakest it has been in years. They have 2 ranked teams right now.

While the NCAA tournament is the most fun postseason tournament in all of sports, it's also the worst at determining who the best overall team in the country is. There's a reason the NBA play' series in the playoffs.

Last year's final four featured teams from the Mountain West, Conference USA, the ACC which was as down as this years B1G, and the Big East. UConn won it all despite finishing 4th in the conference during the regular season, and losing in the 2nd round of the BE tournament. And they weren't even challenged in any game.

There was no Big 12, no B1G, and no SEC, so I'm sure the Mountain West and Conference USA were superior to those 3 leagues. I bet Florida Atlantic would have crushed it in the Big 12.

The league is the weakest its been since 2018. Sent 4 teams to the tournament that year, which is pretty awful.

 

[BarnBurner]

You keep saying this. Who are these posters that don't think the conference is down?

Jboy is one. Won't admit it.
Mnvcguy is one. Won't admit it.

 

[MNVCGUY]

The league is the weakest its been since 2018. Sent 4 teams to the tournament that year, which is pretty awful.

College basketball across the board doesn't feature many great teams anymore. Most of the teams in the top 10 have at least 6 loses on the season already.

 

[Gophers7633]

College basketball across the board doesn't feature many great teams anymore. Most of the teams in the top 10 have at least 6 loses on the season already.

I agree. Much more parity this year, especially after the top 3 teams this season.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I agree. Much more parity this year, especially after the top 3 teams this season.

Parity in college basketball has been pretty high for the past few seasons and that has been reflected in the Big Ten as well. You have a lot of decent teams, very few great teams. If you look at the other major conference standings they look very similar to what we have in the Big Ten.

 

[NYtoWItoMN]

I feel like two things are true:
1. The conference record (and pick your ranking source) shows a weaker conference this year than in the past. Not really debatable.
2. Expectations were very high, and based off talent/recruits, the expectations should have been high. The OSU situation perfectly highlights how the big names (OSU, MSU, UM, Mary) have underperformed.

Purdue, Illinois, and Rutgers are pretty much the only three teams in the conference meeting preseason expectations.

 

[howeda7]

Not only is the conference weak, but the schedule broke our way (or not for SOS) in that we only play Purdue, Illinois and Wisconsin once each. With all of that, going 10-10, while still better than expected, is not some incredible feat.

 

[Gophers7633]

Parity in college basketball has been pretty high for the past few seasons and that has been reflected in the Big Ten as well. You have a lot of decent teams, very few great teams. If you look at the other major conference standings they look very similar to what we have in the Big Ten.

Agree. Which is why performing well in OOC means all that much more. After Purdue and Illinois, the B1G is a jumbled mess(like last year), but the reason a team like Wisconsin is sitting relatively well from a tournament perspective is because they have wins over Marquette, Virginia & SMU. Conference perception is formed with all those OOC games.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Not only is the conference weak, but the schedule broke our way (or not for SOS) in that we only play Purdue, Illinois and Wisconsin once each. With all of that, going 10-10, while still better than expected, is not some incredible feat.

Nobody is trying to imply that it is. Team is coming off back to back horrible years and was picked to finish at the bottom of the conference again this year. They have played significantly better than expected and there is reason to have hope for the future.

There is a lot to like about this team and they have been playing better overall as the season has progressed with the potential to return the vast majority of the roster next year.

 

[BarnBurner]

Nobody is trying to imply that it is. Team is coming off back to back horrible years and was picked to finish at the bottom of the conference again this year. They have played significantly better than expected and there is reason to have hope for the future.

There is a lot to like about this team and they have been playing better overall as the season has progressed with the potential to return the vast majority of the roster next year.

You and Jboy are.

 

[howeda7]

Nobody is trying to imply that it is.

There's "Coach of the Year" talk here and on BTN, and we've had posters declare they now believe Ben will be the most successful coach in Gopher history and not having another losing season.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You and Jboy are.

I mean, I kind of am.

If you would have asked me in November what the odds are that the team would finish 10-10 in conference, I'd have said they are extremely low. I think the jump to being a 10-10 basketball team this year is a massive jump.

I don't think that guarantees that Ben's the guy. I don't think it means we need to lock up Ben to a long term deal. However, going into this season, I was about as confident in our program as I was the football program after losing to South Dakota.

 

[BarnBurner]

I mean, I kind of am.

If you would have asked me in November what the odds are that the team would finish 10-10 in conference, I'd have said they are extremely low. I think the jump to being a 10-10 basketball team this year is a massive jump.

I don't think that guarantees that Ben's the guy. I don't think it means we need to lock up Ben to a long term deal. However, going into this season, I was about as confident in our program as I was the football program after losing to South Dakota.

So going .500 in a down conference in year three is an incredible feat?

What would you call Mike Rhodes first year success at PSU? He currently has the same number of conference wins in year one.

What's interesting is many many posters insist we now have really good players, depth, etc. and at the same time insist on making excuses as to why the team isn't better in a down conference, in year three of cbj.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

So going .500 in a down conference in year three is an incredible feat?

What would you call Mike Rhodes first year success at PSU? He currently has the same number of conference wins in year one.

What's interesting is many many posters insist we now have really good players, depth, etc. and at the same time insist on making excuses as to why the team isn't better in a down conference, in year three of cbj.

I'm probably not doing a good job at just how bad I thought we were coming into this season, but yes, from where we were, for me, I think it's a pretty impressive feat.

Again, I'm not speaking to anything more than that question - the same person who was driving the ship that brought us to those depths is the coach now. I'm not ignore years 1 and 2 guy.

Going into this season, I would have said there is a 2% chance Ben's the coach in 2025 and now I think it's closer to 50%. That's drastic.

I think Mike Rhodes has done a nice job this year. I think it's pretty impressive to switch coaches and for them to rebound into having a decent run in the Big 10 this year. I don't think it's as drastic as our situation because we were so putrid going into the year, but I think Rhodes is a good coach and has done a nice job.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

So going .500 in a down conference in year three is an incredible feat?

What would you call Mike Rhodes first year success at PSU? He currently has the same number of conference wins in year one.

What's interesting is many many posters insist we now have really good players, depth, etc. and at the same time insist on making excuses as to why the team isn't better in a down conference, in year three of cbj.

Penn State was also 10-10 in conference last year as well, not 6-14 like in Pitino’s last season before CBJ arrived.

Significant progress from year 2-3 and if we finish with 10 or 11 wins he’ll be in the conversation for B10 COY, after being picked last in the preseason B10 media poll. That’s good for the school, team, players and coaches.

Why would that bother any Gopher fan?

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I think Mike Rhodes has done a nice job this year. I think it's pretty impressive to switch coaches and for them to rebound into having a decent run in the Big 10 this year. I don't think it's as drastic as our situation because we were so putrid going into the year, but I think Rhodes is a good coach and has done a nice job.

First of all, let me say that I admire your ability to write two reasoned, balanced, thoughtful, and respectful posts to BarnBurner. Perhaps I'm too cynical about mankind on the message board and lack the patience to accomplish that.

I also think Mike Rhoades has done a nice job in his first season. Of course, I'm pulling for him (except when he plays the Gophers) because he grew up very close to where I did. His father was a school principal and a state senator representing the area after that.

Of course, we have to remember that Rhoades was a pretty accomplished coach when he arrived at PSU and was paid accordingly. This university hasn't shown the willingness lately to pay accomplished coach compensation so our initial expectations probably should be adjusted. There was a reason why people grumbled regularly about Tubby despite him being the most successful basketball coach at the U in this century.

 

[golfing18now]

I'm probably not doing a good job at just how bad I thought we were coming into this season, but yes, from where we were, for me, I think it's a pretty impressive feat.

Again, I'm not speaking to anything more than that question - the same person who was driving the ship that brought us to those depths is the coach now. I'm not ignore years 1 and 2 guy.

Going into this season, I would have said there is a 2% chance Ben's the coach in 2025 and now I think it's closer to 50%. That's drastic.

I think Mike Rhodes has done a nice job this year. I think it's pretty impressive to switch coaches and for them to rebound into having a decent run in the Big 10 this year. I don't think it's as drastic as our situation because we were so putrid going into the year, but I think Rhodes is a good coach and has done a nice job.

I think you have hit on the primary issue for me as it relates to this year. We have exceeded expectations in large part because they had been lowered so far in the previous two years.

But take Ben Johnson out of my comments and speaking more generally.....

At Minnesota many posters have conditioned themselves to believe a rebuild must take four years or beyond before we can reasonably expect to ever be in the conversation for an NCAA berth. We need the first class to be juniors/seniors and only then if they stay healthy, etc. etc.

In the meantime we see similar programs like Iowa State in line for a top four seed in the same amount of time. Maybe that's an outlier. What about Penn State? They are now on their second coach because the first coach was poached and now the second guy in year one has the same number of conference wins as we do at Minnesota in year three. These aren't basketball powerhouses.

Changing coaches all the time is not the answer. But at some point it does get frustrating always kicking the can down the street and watching other programs with similar resumes/histories have better results.