Ben Johnson is a Disaster

Donate To GopherHole
Slim Tubby said:
What about the guys that cut weight they can't afford to lose? The guys that wrestle up a weight giving up 6-8 pounds to their opponent by doing so? All to ensure the team roster is maximized to it's highest potential?
Click to expand...
Dual meets are team, I agree.

That is not the format that is used in the Big Ten, NCAA, or Olympics. They have brackets of individuals. That's not a team performance.

If it was a bracket of teams, doing a dual meet format for each match, and a team won that, then you would have a point. They do that (at least I assume they still do) at MSHSL level, in addition to having the individual brackets.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Good lord the first year debate is so tired and beat to death. I am sure Johnson probably could have hung onto more of the guys from that team than he did but the key guys....the ones that anyone would really want, Carr, Mashburn, Robbins were gone no matter what. I guess he could have kept Robbins if he wanted to hire a coach he didn't want but that seems like a pretty stupid way to build your coaching staff. So maybe he could have had a couple decent players and a bunch of scrubs from the previous team, it would have been a horrible team. So instead of saddling themselves with some guys they didn't want they went with the full rebuild.

As for the building strategy. Johnson elected not to go for the quick fix either by choice or because he wasn't able to land the guys he needed to make it happen. We will never really know for sure.

He had to have some success in year 3 and he has done that. If there are Gopher fans that aren't enjoying it fully because they are hung up on the past 2 years then I feel bad for them because they are missing out on a fun ride this year. And I am excited to see what they are able to do in year 4.
Click to expand...

I think this year (in particular the conference games in January and beyond) has proven two things:

1. Those of us that anticipated and/or hoped he would be fired after year three were premature. He has earned another year at this point barring an epic collapse. His team has played well for the most part, outside a few second half collapses. Overall, they have been better than expected. The criticism has largely quieted down.

2. The bar for Gopher basketball remains really low. This isn't a shot at Ben Johnson. Due to a horrible non-conference schedule (this is on Ben), a weaker than anticipated B1G conference (obviously not on Ben) and a little bit of bad luck only playing the top three conference teams once each thereby limiting opportunities, the Gophers remain a very long shot to make the tournament. Yet we have a few posters on here that seem to want to spike the football at 8-7 and out of the NCAA field for three consecutive years. I guess I'm still of the mindset that a coach should be able to make the NCAA field in his first four years at least once at a minimum. So in that sense the book is still a long ways from being written on Ben Johnson.

That said, it has been a very fun year. I'm looking forward to the last five games. The opportunities are now out there to move this from a very solid step forward to a sensational one.
 

Slim Tubby said:
[QUOTE="MplsGopher, post: 2884768, member:]

(Wrestling, gymnastics, track, etc are not team sports. I don’t care that they fake a “team” score by cobbling together individual performances.)
Click to expand...
What about the guys that cut weight they can't afford to lose? The guys that wrestle up a weight giving up 6-8 pounds to their opponent by doing so? All to ensure the team roster is maximized to it's highest potential?

You don't know jack when it comes to all of the components and individual sacrifices applied towards winning as a team because you obviously never wrestled.
Click to expand...
You know, now that you bring this up, I would love to see a no holds bar cage match between wrestling teams.
Put everyone out on a big mat, set a total weight limit, and then have everyone wrestle until there is just one person left unpinned. Teammates can help teammates and assist in the pinning of opponents. Now that would be a team sport!

Now, understand I am being a sarcastic smartass. I have a lot of appreciation for the discipline, technique,and athleticism it takes to be an elite wrestler. However, if ever a comparison of apples and oranges were being made, it is trying to compare wrestling to basketball. I don't see them comparing well at all.

Since this is a basketball thread, I propose we let the wrestling analogy die on the vine.
 
Last edited:



FinnGopher said:
You know, now that you bring this up, I would love to see a no holds bar cage match between wrestling teams.
Put everyone out on a big mat, set a total weight limit, and then have everyone wrestle until there is just one person left unpinned. Teammates can help teammates and assist in the pinning of opponents. Now that would be a team sport!

Now, understand I am being a sarcastic smartass. I have a lot of appreciation for the discipline, technique,and athleticism it takes to be an elite wrestler. However, if ever a comparison of apples and oranges were being made, it is trying to compare wrestling to basketball. I don't see them comparing well at all.

Since this is a basketball thread, I propose we let the wrestling analogy die on the vine.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. 👍
 


MNVCGUY said:
There is still hope for GWG because he is still a fan and can/will eventually come around if things go well. He isn't a lost cause like BarnBurner who is on most people's ignore lists for good reason. :)

The whole situation is similar to what happened on the football board when Fleck was hired (for different reasons). When Fleck was hired there were people that hated everything about him and complained non stop, those people have either come to accept Fleck or disappeared because of the success of the football program.

Nobody seems to dislike Johnson as a person but similar to Fleck if he has success those that have been against the hire will come around eventually.
Click to expand...

I don't dislike Ben, and if he wins, I will have no trouble being happy for him and supporting a winning team. There's zero reason the Gophers can't be a NCAA tournament team every year. Wisconsin has done it for decades, and Iowa under Fran has made it most years.

The interesting thing about the PJ/Tracy situation is I have been pro PJ since before he was even hired. Part of my trouble with Ben is I think he's a lot more like Tracy than PJ. I would take Ben as an assistant any day, just like I never had a problem with Tracy as a DC.

Can he lead and build a P6 basketball program to a consistent NCAA tournament team? He hasn't proven it yet and I still have a lot of doubts that he is the right person to do that. This year is a step in the right direction, but if they lose several players from their core in the offseason, it could also be the peak under Ben. Time will tell.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't dislike Ben, and if he wins, I will have no trouble being happy for him and supporting a winning team. There's zero reason the Gophers can't be a NCAA tournament team every year. Wisconsin has done it for decades, and Iowa under Fran has made it most years.

The interesting thing about the PJ/Tracy situation is I have been pro PJ since before he was even hired. Part of my trouble with Ben is I think he's a lot more like Tracy than PJ. I would take Ben as an assistant any day, just like I never had a problem with Tracy as a DC.

Can he lead and build a P6 basketball program to a consistent NCAA tournament team? He hasn't proven it yet and I still have a lot of doubts that he is the right person to do that. This year is a step in the right direction, but if they lose several players from their core in the offseason, it could also be the peak under Ben. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
Yet is the key word in your statement.
You have doubts, I do not.
If they add to the core then this season could be the last valley we see for a while.
 



TwistingMyMelon said:
Me too, bourbon or rye. Scotch is a bit of an acquired taste and quite variable I find depending upon the brand. Some of it tastes awful and some of it is quite good. Lately I've gotten lazy and have been consuming more pre-mixed cocktails from a bottle (Manhattans or Old Fashioneds).
Click to expand...
Normally been a vodka guy but starting to acquire a taste for Old Fashioneds. I too enjoy the pre- mixes as I'm lazy. Bulliet's is pretty good as is the Knob Creek, IMO.
 

Not a big BB guy but can jump on the wagon as good as anyone. Looking forward to today's match-up.

Haven't reviewed all 151 pages but certainly the ones around where Coach J and the program is now point to the "weak" (my word) non-conference schedule this year...and apparently this rests mainly with Coach?

Now I think I've got a good handle on FB non-conference scheduling and the AD at the time, since schedules are often made 4-5 years out (or 9-10 years for scheduling Bama), plays a huge role in non-conference scheduling because these often are major negotiations around $$$. I recall Coach Kill being unhappy with some scheduling during his tenure (maybe NC?). and even Mase might have had a grumble or two over his ten years. Not sure that PJ has outright complained.

So for BB is the HC the big driver for the non-conference slate? I've just done a quick google and see the conference slate for 2024-25 has been set but nothing for non-conference. Also saw a hit for a 24/7 article that the whole non-conference schedule for this season had not been released as late as August 22. So it appears the non-con schedule really comes together year-to-year without a lot of forward scheduling?

Just wanting to better understand this nuance of the Coach Johnson debate. Not looking for much other than validity of the criticism for him or HCs generally.

Thanks in advance. Beat Nebbie!
 

The reality of the weak non-conference schedule is that we needed those games to develop chemistry and promote confidence from getting wins.

If we had a tougher NON-C schedule, it's safe to say we would have lost any game that would have meant a damn. Mizzou has no wins in SEC play and beat us at home. San Fran hammered us. It doesn't do much good to schedule tough if you're not going to win any games.

We were not a very good team to start the year. We are a much better team now.

It should help next year to schedule tough as we should be able to compete in those games.
 

BilldGopher said:
Not a big BB guy but can jump on the wagon as good as anyone. Looking forward to today's match-up.

Haven't reviewed all 151 pages but certainly the ones around where Coach J and the program is now point to the "weak" (my word) non-conference schedule this year...and apparently this rests mainly with Coach?

Now I think I've got a good handle on FB non-conference scheduling and the AD at the time, since schedules are often made 4-5 years out (or 9-10 years for scheduling Bama), plays a huge role in non-conference scheduling because these often are major negotiations around $$$. I recall Coach Kill being unhappy with some scheduling during his tenure (maybe NC?). and even Mase might have had a grumble or two over his ten years. Not sure that PJ has outright complained.

So for BB is the HC the big driver for the non-conference slate? I've just done a quick google and see the conference slate for 2024-25 has been set but nothing for non-conference. Also saw a hit for a 24/7 article that the whole non-conference schedule for this season had not been released as late as August 22. So it appears the non-con schedule really comes together year-to-year without a lot of forward scheduling?

Just wanting to better understand this nuance of the Coach Johnson debate. Not looking for much other than validity of the criticism for him or HCs generally.

Thanks in advance. Beat Nebbie!
Click to expand...
One thing is cbj begged out of a non con tournament earlier this season. Would have faced some level better competition.
 



skiumah1 said:
The reality of the weak non-conference schedule is that we needed those games to develop chemistry and promote confidence from getting wins.

If we had a tougher NON-C schedule, it's safe to say we would have lost any game that would have meant a damn. Mizzou has no wins in SEC play and beat us at home. San Fran hammered us. It doesn't do much good to schedule tough if you're not going to win any games.

We were not a very good team to start the year. We are a much better team now.

It should help next year to schedule tough as we should be able to compete in those games.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anyone say we should have played 10-12 games against projected top 30 teams. Most P6 teams play 2-4 games against projected NCAA tournament teams sprinkled in with 8-10 games against teams ranging from say 100-250 in the projected rankings. MN played basically no one (maybe San Fran and Mizzo) In the top 50 and the rest were basically in the 300's. For next season and going forward, I would like to see the Gophers play more of the typical P6 non conf schedule. I'm curious to see the schedule for next fall.
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
At this point there's really no reason to think this isn't all going right along with CBJ's plan and when it's all said and done he'll be the most successful coach in Gopher history. I doubt he'll ever have another losing season.
Click to expand...
Not putting the cart 10,000 miles before the horse on that take.
 


skiumah1 said:
The reality of the weak non-conference schedule is that we needed those games to develop chemistry and promote confidence from getting wins.

If we had a tougher NON-C schedule, it's safe to say we would have lost any game that would have meant a damn. Mizzou has no wins in SEC play and beat us at home. San Fran hammered us. It doesn't do much good to schedule tough if you're not going to win any games.

We were not a very good team to start the year. We are a much better team now.

It should help next year to schedule tough as we should be able to compete in those games.
Click to expand...
I disagree. We're only talking about changing 2-3 games. If they'd just stayed in the Vegas tournament and played SDSU and Washington instead of USC Upstate and Ball State in the "multi team event" their SOS would be much better and even if they lost both they'd be better off 7-4 then 9-2 against the schedule they played.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't dislike Ben, and if he wins, I will have no trouble being happy for him and supporting a winning team.

Can he lead and build a P6 basketball program to a consistent NCAA tournament team? He hasn't proven it yet and I still have a lot of doubts that he is the right person to do that. This year is a step in the right direction, but if they lose several players from their core in the offseason, it could also be the peak under Ben. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
This is rational. But apparently you either have to have "no doubts" and think "there's no reason to think Ben won't be the Gophers most successful coach ever and will never have another losing season" or you're a hater. There's no middle.
 

howeda7 said:
This is rational. But apparently you either have to have "no doubts" and think "there's no reason to think Ben won't be the Gophers most successful coach ever and will never have another losing season" or you're a hater. There's no middle.
Click to expand...
Lol you're trying to act like you're the middle?

Nice strawman though
 






WoodburyTim said:
I can’t believe you guys can keep doing this over and over and don’t get tired of it. We lose and the people who aren’t fans of Ben say I told you so and when we win the Ben fans say they told us so.

Oddly we are a .500 team and everybody says they are right.
Click to expand...
This thread needs to die. He’s clearly no longer the disaster we previously thought he was.
 




howeda7 said:
Fork tongued? F off and get a life. It's basketball.

Put me on ignore. I did you that favor long ago, Diehard/RockHard/Melons and whatever other monikers you hide under.
Click to expand...

I'm not Rockraven. That's another one of your lies. And I've never even heard of Diehard.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom