Ben Johnson is a Disaster

[bga1]

Am I the only person on here that thinks this is a little premature? I would consider this as year one, as he basically had to fill a team in his first year of transfers after most had already committed due to his late hiring. He had one freshman commit (Thompson). Then had to hit restart again.

It's too soon to fire him. But this is year 2. The year zero stuff is nonsense, especially in the portal age. Now what made it tough on Ben is that he had no track record. That's a tough sell for Ben, but that's the deal he signed up for and that's what the administration chose to do. So make it work- I have no interest in excuses.

Give him another year at least before the sky is falling. We are playing 4 freshman 20 minutes a game. These aren’t Kentucky type freshman. These are MN kids and one raw Cali kid trying to compete in a league full of experience. They need time.

That's true.

We drove out Gabe because of the negativity and look at him flourish at Iowa St.

Gabe got in his own head. Period. Fans anywhere are going to complain about poor performance.

Going into the year, we knew they would suck. Why is everyone so butthurt that the team is sucking?!

This is a really, really bad level of sucking. No home wins in the Big Ten. Historically bad numbers in every direction. It should not have been this bad. Asking for 5-6 wins in year two and finishing 13th instead of 14th is not exactly a high bar.

I have watched every second of every game. I’m just as frustrated and upset as you guys. I see the stuggles and lack of offense. I also see freshman making stupid mistakes that will get cleaned up moving into year two.

It's not just the freshman that are lost out there.

Evans leaving stings, but his NIL team obviously wanted a better opportunity than what we could give him. This just gives us an opportunity to snag another guard in the transfer portal.

And that is a do or die situation for Ben. Get a good portal haul or get fired. I didn't think it was possible after year 3 for the U to fire him- now I do. This is an epic tank job.

We haven’t been a power in the B1G in a loooong time, it isn’t going to happen over night.

The sun rose again in this morning. We have a chance to beat Nebraska today. Leggo Gophs!

Yes it did and yes we can! I like the young kids and do see hope there.

 

[skiumah1]

It's too soon to fire him. But this is year 2. The year zero stuff is nonsense, especially in the portal age. Now what made it tough on Ben is that he had no track record. That's a tough sell for Ben, but that's the deal he signed up for and that's what the administration chose to do. So make it work- I have no interest in excuses.

That's true.

Gabe got in his own head. Period. Fans anywhere are going to complain about poor performance.

This is a really, really bad level of sucking. No home wins in the Big Ten. Historically bad numbers in every direction. It should not have been this bad. Asking for 5-6 wins in year two and finishing 13th instead of 14th is not exactly a high bar.

It's not just the freshman that are lost out there.

And that is a do or die situation for Ben. Get a good portal haul or get fired. I didn't think it was possible after year 3 for the U to fire him- now I do. This is an epic tank job.

Yes it did and yes we can! I like the young kids and do see hope there.

I'm with all of the responses here.

We have 1 acceptable recruiting class in 3 years (Depending on who we pull from portal this year). And that acceptable class is not capable of making us a Big 10 contender. Payne is really solid. The other guys will take 2-4 years to hopefully be competitive in this conference. Can't wait on that.

Battle has taken a significant step back. Cooper is not what we thought he'd be. Evans has de-committed.

I absolutely agree it was going to be tough for Ben to get fired after 3 years (Would get at least 4), but it sure seems likely at this point if our Athletic Department gives a damn.

If we don't get more than 4 Big 10 wins next year, it's over. And if you're looking at Vegas odds for Gopher conference wins next year at this point, I'll take the under on that number.

As a Gopher fan, or fan of any team, it's just brutal to go through wasted time.

I thought it was a really bad decision when Ben was hired, but I came around because there's no other choice once you hire a guy. But I also agree this is about as bad as it could have gone.

 

[Holy Man]

I'm with all of the responses here.

We have 1 acceptable recruiting class in 3 years (Depending on who we pull from portal this year). And that acceptable class is not capable of making us a Big 10 contender. Payne is really solid. The other guys will take 2-4 years to hopefully be competitive in this conference. Can't wait on that.

Battle has taken a significant step back. Cooper is not what we thought he'd be. Evans has de-committed.

I absolutely agree it was going to be tough for Ben to get fired after 3 years (Would get at least 4), but it sure seems likely at this point if our Athletic Department gives a damn.

If we don't get more than 4 Big 10 wins next year, it's over. And if you're looking at Vegas odds for Gopher conference wins next year at this point, I'll take the under on that number.

As a Gopher fan, or fan of any team, it's just brutal to go through wasted time.

I thought it was a really bad decision when Ben was hired, but I came around because there's no other choice once you hire a guy. But I also agree this is about as bad as it could have gone.

Big assumption.

 

[skiumah1]

Could be a very similar trajectory. Count me out on this.

Would anyone sign up for this?

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Dear blackjack guy, I am all in for no wins til 2027 and have the posts to prove it. Onward!

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Alright, let’s fire this thing up.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

View attachment 24247

Could be a very similar trajectory. Count me out on this.

Would anyone sign up for this?

I'm out but we seem a long ways away from winning 8 Big 10 games.

 

[howeda7]

View attachment 24247

Could be a very similar trajectory. Count me out on this.

Would anyone sign up for this?

No. And Hoiberg has a track record to rely on.

 

[Bad Gopher]

View attachment 24247

Could be a very similar trajectory. Count me out on this.

Would anyone sign up for this?

It has to be viewed in context. Fred had a track record of success in Ames. That gets you a longer rope.

 

[Bad Gopher]

This isn't new, but...

A short time ago, my wife came home from the Big Ten Tournament shaking her head about the Gophers' performance. After we sat down to eat, I said to her, you know where Bo Ryan started coaching? Junior high. I said, remember John Beilein from Michigan? You know where HE started? Junior high.

Like I put it to her, you just can't start at the top. Almost nobody can do that. It's unnatural. There's too much to learn. Maybe it was understandable, but the Whalen hire was absurd in retrospect, and many thought it absurd at the time. She had almost no experience in coaching. The experience she had was superficial.

Ben's hire was a measure less absurd but absurd nonetheless. More absurd, even, are the people who continue to defend it and double down on it, even amidst the pile of rubble we're all standing in. Do people have no sense? What sense can it possibly make to think this is going to magically, radically, diametrically turn around, especially with the depth of hole we're now in? Can they hear themselves?

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Obi Wan Kenoben has take his own advice and use the force

 

[Gopherfan84]

This isn't new, but...

A short time ago, my wife came home from the Big Ten Tournament shaking her head about the Gophers' performance. After we sat down to eat, I said to her, you know where Bo Ryan started coaching? Junior high. I said, remember John Beilein from Michigan? You know where HE started? Junior high.

Like I put it to her, you just can't start at the top. Almost nobody can do that. It's unnatural. There's too much to learn. Maybe it was understandable, but the Whalen hire was absurd in retrospect, and many thought it absurd at the time. She had almost no experience in coaching. The experience she had was superficial.

Ben's hire was a measure less absurd but absurd nonetheless. More absurd, even, are the people who continue to defend it and double down on it, even amidst the pile of rubble we're all standing in. Do people have no sense? What sense can it possibly make to think this is going to magically, radically, diametrically turn around, especially with the depth of hole we're now in? Can they hear themselves?

I can hear myself just fine. Your steps you mention is why Ben was quite a bit more measurably absurd because he took the steps up. He missed a step that I value being a low/mid major HC. That’s a fair complaint and many (including me because I think it’s a large step) said that at the hire. I think the final judgement for anyone holding out (myself here too) is to have a healthish season. Losing only one starter for a season instead of two. Not having your best players out for 1/2 of the season (Imagine Purdue if they had two of their top 8 out this year and then having Edey out for 6-7 games. They’d still be better than us obviously, but would they be in the top 4? Probably not.) I’m also wanting to see his freshman after one season of development. I’m ok holding out until then and don’t find it absurd to at least want to see those two things before making the final judgement.

Whalen was just for show and for a ticket grab at a non profitable. I ripped the hire when it happened and stayed on it from the get go. She showed all the mistakes too in recruiting and lack of teaching/development.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I can hear myself just fine. Your steps you mention is why Ben was quite a bit more measurably absurd because he took the steps up. He missed a step that I value being a low/mid major HC. That’s a fair complaint and many (including me because I think it’s a large step) said that at the hire. I think the final judgement for anyone holding out (myself here too) is to have a healthish season. Losing only one starter for a season instead of two. Not having your best players out for 1/2 of the season (Imagine Purdue if they had two of their top 8 out this year and then having Edey out for 6-7 games. They’d still be better than us obviously, but would they be in the top 4? Probably not.) I’m also wanting to see his freshman after one season of development. I’m ok holding out until then and don’t find it absurd to at least want to see those two things before making the final judgement.

Whalen was just for show and for a ticket grab at a non profitable. I ripped the hire when it happened and stayed on it from the get go. She showed all the mistakes too in recruiting and lack of teaching/development.

It's easy to have one's judgment clouded by hope. I think it would be hard to find a detached, objective outside observer without an attachment to the program--fan or otherwise--who thinks this is a good or promising situation.

Your words say it yourself: wanting to see these good things. But is it really reasonable? Realistic? Hope is a powerful drug.

 

[Gopherfan84]

It's easy to have one's judgment clouded by hope. I think it would be hard to find a detached, objective outside observer without an attachment to the program--fan or otherwise--who thinks this is a good or promising situation.

Your words say it yourself: wanting to see these good things. But is it really reasonable? Realistic? Hope is a powerful drug.

Yes a fan having hope. What an awful terrible concept. Actual outside observers who follow the sport mostly talk about how this is a hard job that is not easy to win at. Most say it will take time on the many that I listen to. It’s not a drug, I use sports for casual enjoyment, so I will always hope for the best. If it gets too ugly where I have none, I stop watching. Did it with two of Pitinos teams and one of Monsons. I’m not there yet with Ben for the reasons I stated. Again, very clear in what I’m looking for and wanting to see.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Yes a fan having hope. What an awful terrible concept. Actual outside observers who follow the sport mostly talk about how this is a hard job that is not easy to win at. Most say it will take time on the many that I listen to. It’s not a drug, I use sports for casual enjoyment, so I will always hope for the best. If it gets too ugly where I have none, I stop watching. Did it with two of Pitinos teams and one of Monsons. I’m not there yet with Ben for the reasons I stated. Again, very clear in what I’m looking for and wanting to see.

For powerless, captive fans, it's true, hope may be all we have. I'm not letting it get in the way of critical thinking, though. I know I can't hope this staff into being up to this.

 

[Gopherfan84]

For powerless, captive fans, it's true, hope may be all we have. I'm not letting it get in the way of critical thinking, though. I know I can't hope this staff into being up to this.

I’m not either. College basketball is the sport I follow the most and listen/read all stuff from all sorts of independent media members and then make my judgement. The gophers are really the only team that I have any bias with when evaluating, but I think I’m pretty reasonable in my assessments.
I agree though, you can’t hope it, the staff will or won’t do it.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Mark Coyle is a joke as an athletic director. Go back to Syracuse or go anywhere else and wreck their sports programs.

Football and hockey are a complete mess

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

View attachment 24247

Could be a very similar trajectory. Count me out on this.

Would anyone sign up for this?

Depends on what year 5 looks like

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

I can hear myself just fine. Your steps you mention is why Ben was quite a bit more measurably absurd because he took the steps up. He missed a step that I value being a low/mid major HC. That’s a fair complaint and many (including me because I think it’s a large step) said that at the hire. I think the final judgement for anyone holding out (myself here too) is to have a healthish season. Losing only one starter for a season instead of two. Not having your best players out for 1/2 of the season (Imagine Purdue if they had two of their top 8 out this year and then having Edey out for 6-7 games. They’d still be better than us obviously, but would they be in the top 4? Probably not.) I’m also wanting to see his freshman after one season of development. I’m ok holding out until then and don’t find it absurd to at least want to see those two things before making the final judgement.

Whalen was just for show and for a ticket grab at a non profitable. I ripped the hire when it happened and stayed on it from the get go. She showed all the mistakes too in recruiting and lack of teaching/development.

Counter points:

• we were getting destroyed even when Garcia was healthy
• Counting Parker Fox as a starter and a contributor at this level is fools gold. He has never played above NSIC level, and he is coming off a major knee injury which sidelined him last year (and he was a player that relied on his explosiveness). The Big10 is not the NSIC. The more Fox plays, the less Payne / Garcia play
• Ihnen - he has been garbage outside of 5 games his freshmen and sophomore years (his shooting %s are terrible for his career). Plus, even if we take this year's injury out, he would've been coming off a major injury that sidelined him last year...counting on him for anything again...fools gold. Plus...he is a PF...meaning less Garcia / Fox / Payne

So let's say they were not injured, what is this mystical starting lineup? Cooper, Ihnen, Battle, Garcia, Fox? Honestly...CBJ keeps saying on his weekly radio program we are missing two starters due to injury this year...so what the heck would the starting lineup be? you know it would include Garcia, Cooper, and Battle...does that mean Ihnen and Fox as well (yikes)

 

[Crappie]

Am I the only person on here that thinks this is a little premature? I would consider this as year one, as he basically had to fill a team in his first year of transfers after most had already committed due to his late hiring. He had one freshman commit (Thompson). Then had to hit restart again.

Give him another year at least before the sky is falling. We are playing 4 freshman 20 minutes a game. These aren’t Kentucky type freshman. These are MN kids and one raw Cali kid trying to compete in a league full of experience. They need time.

We drove out Gabe because of the negativity and look at him flourish at Iowa St.

Going into the year, we knew they would suck. Why is everyone so butthurt that the team is sucking?!

I have watched every second of every game. I’m just as frustrated and upset as you guys. I see the stuggles and lack of offense. I also see freshman making stupid mistakes that will get cleaned up moving into year two.

Evans leaving stings, but his NIL team obviously wanted a better opportunity than what we could give him. This just gives us an opportunity to snag another guard in the transfer portal.

We haven’t been a power in the B1G in a loooong time, it isn’t going to happen over night.

The sun rose again in this morning. We have a chance to beat Nebraska today. Leggo Gophs!

Gabe must be a very sensitive, fragile young man.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Counter points:

• we were getting destroyed even when Garcia was healthy
• Counting Parker Fox as a starter and a contributor at this level is fools gold. He has never played above NSIC level, and he is coming off a major knee injury which sidelined him last year (and he was a player that relied on his explosiveness). The Big10 is not the NSIC. The more Fox plays, the less Payne / Garcia play
• Ihnen - he has been garbage outside of 5 games his freshmen and sophomore years (his shooting %s are terrible for his career). Plus, even if we take this year's injury out, he would've been coming off a major injury that sidelined him last year...counting on him for anything again...fools gold. Plus...he is a PF...meaning less Garcia / Fox / Payne

So let's say they were not injured, what is this mystical starting lineup? Cooper, Ihnen, Battle, Garcia, Fox? Honestly...CBJ keeps saying on his weekly radio program we are missing two starters due to injury this year...so what the heck would the starting lineup be? you know it would include Garcia, Cooper, and Battle...does that mean Ihnen and Fox as well (yikes)

Good for you on your counter points and fine with your assessment. I stated mine because a poster didn’t understand how anyone can still not have made judgement. I gave my reasons and stand by them. I’ve explained what I’m disappointed in plenty.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Gabe must be a very sensitive, fragile young man.

Way less than you are I can promise that.

 

[skiumah1]

Depends on what year 5 looks like

Nah

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Nah

You asked and I answered

 

[WilliamsArenaGuy]

This isn't new, but...

A short time ago, my wife came home from the Big Ten Tournament shaking her head about the Gophers' performance. After we sat down to eat, I said to her, you know where Bo Ryan started coaching? Junior high. I said, remember John Beilein from Michigan? You know where HE started? Junior high.

Like I put it to her, you just can't start at the top. Almost nobody can do that. It's unnatural. There's too much to learn. Maybe it was understandable, but the Whalen hire was absurd in retrospect, and many thought it absurd at the time. She had almost no experience in coaching. The experience she had was superficial.

Ben's hire was a measure less absurd but absurd nonetheless. More absurd, even, are the people who continue to defend it and double down on it, even amidst the pile of rubble we're all standing in. Do people have no sense? What sense can it possibly make to think this is going to magically, radically, diametrically turn around, especially with the depth of hole we're now in? Can they hear themselves?

Shut the board down. Post of the millennium.

 

[skiumah1]

You asked and I answered

I can respect that.

 

[GopherBlood777]

This isn't new, but...

A short time ago, my wife came home from the Big Ten Tournament shaking her head about the Gophers' performance. After we sat down to eat, I said to her, you know where Bo Ryan started coaching? Junior high. I said, remember John Beilein from Michigan? You know where HE started? Junior high.

Like I put it to her, you just can't start at the top. Almost nobody can do that. It's unnatural. There's too much to learn. Maybe it was understandable, but the Whalen hire was absurd in retrospect, and many thought it absurd at the time. She had almost no experience in coaching. The experience she had was superficial.

Ben's hire was a measure less absurd but absurd nonetheless. More absurd, even, are the people who continue to defend it and double down on it, even amidst the pile of rubble we're all standing in. Do people have no sense? What sense can it possibly make to think this is going to magically, radically, diametrically turn around, especially with the depth of hole we're now in? Can they hear themselves?

Pro coaches count for this? Jason Kidd and Steve Kerr seem to have done alright... but yeah is definitely the exception on them and not the rule.

 

[Dano564]

Ben was a real reach of a hire in the first place. I think all can agree on that.

Regardless of transfer portal, and incoming class, and health of this team, there won't be one media outlet that will pick the Gophers to be ahead of 14th place in the Big Ten.

That itself should tell you something.

Who nationally is buying in that Ben is going to substantially improve this program because health of a player or two will be better?

We're grasping for straws of hope if we think one more year is enough to right this ship.

Not only is our record bad, but we are getting blown out in some games by teams that aren't NCAA final four level teams.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Yes, hiring Ben was a gamble.

When you gamble, sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose.

it is a lot easier to second-guess a losing gamble.

If the Gophers were winning, say, 40% of their B1G games, this thread would not exist - or certainly would not exist at its current length.

People on this board certainly have a right to criticize Johnson. I just wish some of them wouldn't seem as if they enjoyed it so much.

I have a theory that some people, including some media members, if given a choice, would rather criticize a bad team as opposed to praising a good team. Because for some reason, they think ripping a bad team is more fun.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Yes, hiring Ben was a gamble.

When you gamble, sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose.

it is a lot easier to second-guess a losing gamble.

If the Gophers were winning, say, 40% of their B1G games, this thread would not exist - or certainly would not exist at its current length.

People on this board certainly have a right to criticize Johnson. I just wish some of them wouldn't seem as if they enjoyed it so much.

I have a theory that some people, including some media members, if given a choice, would rather criticize a bad team as opposed to praising a good team. Because for some reason, they think ripping a bad team is more fun.

Great point, it’s been shown it’s easier to be against something than for something