Ben Johnson is a Disaster

RickDornsby

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Which is exactly why the situation PJ inherited was far more difficult than what Ben inherited.

There doesn't seem to be culture issues at this point. Recruiting looks ok on paper, but on the court it doesn't look good at all so far. There is a drastic talent drop off compared to most other B1G teams.

Look at Braden Smith last night. He's a true freshman 3* recruit with no big offers other than Purdue and he did whatever he wanted against us. None of our freshman are even close to his or Loyer's level. It appears that MN's high school talent was vastly overrated last year.

Was the MN talent overrated? All of the guys we have were ranked in the #200 range, nationally.

That usually means “decent major conference starter or mid major guy” which is about all we can hope for in 2 years with some of them if they hang around that long.
 


GopherWeatherGuy

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Was the MN talent overrated? All of the guys we have were ranked in the #200 range, nationally.

That usually means “decent major conference starter or mid major guy” which is about all we can hope for in 2 years with some of them if they hang around that long.

You're right about the guys we have, maybe they were appropriately ranked. They have definitely been overrated by many on this board. But even the higher ranked guys who went elsewhere like Holloman, Heide, King, Watson, Jefferson, are not playing or playing very little. Aligbe is the only other one putting up ok numbers for a bad BC team.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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So in this thread we have learned that Ben Johnson gets at least two seasons of Year Zero and the only coaches who haven't been horrible have cheated. And of course MN should not expect to be able to compete with Iowa State.

Wow.
Or are going about it the wrong way
 



Bfan

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Carrington or Henley need to be consistent shooters or Johnson will likely fall short. This team needs a shooting guard shooter or wing shooter guard. This team can't run far on one lung.

Christie is another year out after them.
 

Gophers_4life

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You're right about the guys we have, maybe they were appropriately ranked. They have definitely been overrated by many on this board. But even the higher ranked guys who went elsewhere like Holloman, Heide, King, Watson, Jefferson, are not playing or playing very little. Aligbe is the only one putting up ok numbers for a bad BC team.
Does a "high" rating necessarily mean you should/will be putting up good numbers as an 18 year old, playing against the whole range of older players in college?

Not a gotcha. I have no idea.

Guess I'm wondering if it is really only the top X (30? 40?) who should reasonable be expected to do that, and it drops off quick after that?
 

MaxyJR1

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Yes and Minnesota held Purdue to 31 in the first half. Elite Purdue has averaged 74.4 points per game.
"Elite" Purdue has played 2 games against the top 1/2 of the conference and 5 games against the bottom 3. They got a good draw and only play Illinois, WI, Mich, Rutgers, and Iowa once each. Purdue has 3 wins in conference by 3 or fewer points.

As Johnson said, defense was not the issue. Our 1-3 positions on the team are really struggling this year and that leads to bad offense.
 

BarnBurner

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"Elite" Purdue has played 2 games against the top 1/2 of the conference and 5 games against the bottom 3. They got a good draw and only play Illinois, WI, Mich, Rutgers, and Iowa once each. Purdue has 3 wins in conference by 3 or fewer points.

As Johnson said, defense was not the issue. Our 1-3 positions on the team are really struggling this year and that leads to bad offense.
Boilers have been lucky......
 




bleedsmaroonandgold

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You do realize Purdue backed off quite a bit? Edy didnt play a ton of minutes last night.
+1

If our staff is not caring about wins and losses for two complete seasons, I would assume that Purdue was not too concerned about their total points in a game that was out of reach for us part way through the first half.
 


howeda7

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This is my concern. We have some legitimate pieces now but we are so far from looking competent. I’m not sure I’ve seen anything to give me confidence we improve with Evans and Christie. Next year will be interesting enough to keep cbj results aside, but his teams have to start playing better.
For a coach to succeed here he has to bring in at least average B1G talent and coach them up into the upper tier. Pitino did the former but couldn't do that later. Ben has brought in below average talent to date. That may get upgraded to average next year, but we haven't see any signs he will coach it up to another level. Perhaps the opposite.
 



jovs

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Johnson has delivered the Dennis Evans grand slam recruiting.

His coaching will be judged on the outcome if the four freshmen this season -- things to come. We will see when they are juniors.

DENNIS EVANS!!!!!
I think the results we've seen are what happens when you don't have a PG. Gophs have trouble getting in any offensive sets and the offense just isn't generating easy shots. Evan's isn't going to change that and I don't see anything in the pipeline that will.
 

howeda7

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Also, are you saying Ben Johnson did not recruit phenom Dennis Evans? That it isn't a grand slam for the Gophers and Johnson?

That ball has been JACKED and cleared the bases for a GRAND SLAM!

View attachment 23225
You guys are building this poor kid up so much that he can almost certainly do nothing but fall short. He's not Lew Alcindor and he's not going to single-handedly turn a dumpster fire into an NCAA team as a freshman.
 

howeda7

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And what has he done since? Nothing, because he wasn't a competent head coach.

It's funny that the few posters who keep repeating the lie that Ben inherited nothing, which is completely made up, are trying to say PJ inherited Winfield and others. Winfield had far more reasons to leave than anyone on the basketball roster, yet PJ was able to convince him to stay. That's the major difference between the two. PJ recruited players to stay that would help him win, and added a ton of talent to the roster within his first 3 weeks on the job, especially where they were the weakest on offense. PJ was left virtually nothing at QB, WR, OL, and DB. He immediately filled those voids.

Ben is a Brewster level disaster, and that's a disservice to Brewster who went to a bowl game in years 2 and 3.
Ben's far less of a blowhard and a decent guy. But as a coach...yeah.
 

howeda7

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He is going to have to open two slots and find two really good portal guards. Maybe Christie will be one of those two guards you correctly state that they need, but he's going to be a frosh and we can't depend on that.

From the little I saw of Betts he looks more like a small forward. On the roster right now Henley is the only one close to having the ability to grow into one of those guards but he is a long way from having the overall game to do that. He has Devoe Joseph potential in my view if he develops. He has some guts, speed and some skill but is like a 5 month old golden retriever out there. Cooper is a 2 guard and would be a really nice 6th man.

If Ben holds a pat hand for next year- we are toast.
Ben seems to have John Elway syndrome. He can identify talent in the other positions he played against, but can't identify it at all in the position he played himself.
 

howeda7

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The ship has sailed on Craig Smith, and Dennis Gates turned us down, but if guys like Medved and Dutcher were interested last time, they might be again. Plus, there are always good candidates out there if you can find them.

Better days are always ahead, but you have to take action. The Lord helps those who help themselves. Success doesn't just happen through hope and prayer. The Vikes just made a move on DC after one year. (Heck, they fired a HC after one year once.) It takes a big man to admit they made a mistake.

At this point, with the talent coming in next year, Coyle is in a tough spot. You almost have to ride this out and see how it goes with the new pieces. But if there's devastating roster turnover after this season, or if they don't make the NIT next year, you have to pull the plug.
I'm not convinced the ship has sailed on Craig Smith, but it will cost more $$ now. Age is a factor with Dutcher. Medved is very much an option.
 

howeda7

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Gophers held Purdue to low points at the half and full game. 61 allowed only.
Purdue played in 3rd gear all night. Whether that was "load management" or just Painter having mercy on us, I don't take much solace in it. Even though the margin between the first and second Purdue games was only 5 points different, it was night and day on the eye test IMO.
 

Bfan

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Purdue played in 3rd gear all night. Whether that was "load management" or just Painter having mercy on us, I don't take much solace in it. Even though the margin between the first and second Purdue games was only 5 points different, it was night and day on the eye test IMO.


Ok, fair enough.
 

tikited

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I had Gopher and Wolves tickets last night. Glad I chose correctly.
 



bga1

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Four freshmen this season and Evans, yes I am saying that.

ISU brought in 3 transfers in his first season to make a winning program his first year. Yes I am saying that. And no to those who say, wow, what great coaching. No, he brought in trained transfers in but people here talk smack about how he develops players.

Let's see what Johnson does with the four freshmen and Evans.

And stopnsaying ISU coach developed players that were 3 transfers in. How do teams get them?
Next year is show time for Ben. I can't think of many players that ended up being really good that weren't good ones by the time they were sophomores. That's the big jump year. It was for Murphy, Mason, Oturu, Coffey, both Hollins, Devoe Joseph, Al Nolen. They were all pretty good as sophs.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Four freshmen this season and Evans, yes I am saying that.

ISU brought in 3 transfers in his first season to make a winning program his first year. Yes I am saying that. And no to those who say, wow, what great coaching. No, he brought in trained transfers in but people here talk smack about how he develops players.

Let's see what Johnson does with the four freshmen and Evans.

And stopnsaying ISU coach developed players that were 3 transfers in. How do teams get them?
Yep, every coach in his second season has a a FR class, a SO class, and recruits in waiting. That's just math.

Of course Iowa State brought in transfers. So did we. We brought in Willis, Loewe, Battle, Garcia, Cooper, Fox, Samuels, Stephens, Daniels and Sutherlin. Everyone understands that Iowa State brought in transfers and everyone (except a few CBJ apologists) understand that we brought in a ton of transfers too.

Where in my post did I say Iowa State developed their own players? LOL. As far as how he got them, he recruited them. I have no idea if he cheated but I kind of doubt it.

Why can you only cheat with transfers? High school players can't accept money? Don't you think from the outside it seems more suspect that a program in our shape landed a top 11 HS player in the country?

I don't think Ben cheated, I am just saying your stance that Iowa State clearly cheated because they brought in transfers is idiotic. (a) we also brought in a ton of transfers; and (b) why would transfers be more likely to be bought than highly rated Hs players. It's a truly terrible take.
 

bga1

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I'm not convinced the ship has sailed on Craig Smith, but it will cost more $$ now. Age is a factor with Dutcher. Medved is very much an option.
I think he got suckered into using a combo guard at the point by Payton Willis who had a really solid year last year but is not a true PG. It looks like he thought he could do it again with Cooper and he figured he would have nice size to go with it. It hasn't panned out.
 

leib0039

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For a coach to succeed here he has to bring in at least average B1G talent and coach them up into the upper tier. Pitino did the former but couldn't do that later. Ben has brought in below average talent to date. That may get upgraded to average next year, but we haven't see any signs he will coach it up to another level. Perhaps the opposite.
I would say the talent is average, its not elite but its not like completely void of true ability. I will say he has done an AWFUL job of roster mgmt. We have 9 guys who should be a PF/C, 2 slow/limited PG and 2 FR SG who look like they should be playing against Totino Grace on a nightly basis. And if you are going to have that, you need to find both an offensive and defensive scheme to maximize that, CBJ has zero idea how to do that.

Everyone can talk about next year, guess what Evans isnt playing 38 min with our 9 C on the roster. Just like you blow hards who said Carrington/Henley could eat up 20min of PG play this year, Christie wont be able to do that either next year. And I have my doubts if Cooper comes back Ben has the stones to tell him, hey FYI you are going to the bench because you arent good enough. So get ready for a replay of poor G play next year.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I think he got suckered into using a combo guard at the point by Payton Willis who had a really solid year last year but is not a true PG. It looks like he thought he could do it again with Cooper and he figured he would have nice size to go with it. It hasn't panned out.
I don't think Cooper is really a combo guard. I think he's just a slow PG. He is much better with the ball in his hand than he is off the ball.

In my opinion, the Cooper piece hasn't been the miss it's the piece with not having any secondary ball handlers that is killing us this year. We don't have the Loewe or Stephens type to take the load off. Loewe also covered up Willis on defense by being a pretty good on-ball defender.

I think Willis is better than Cooper, but (IMO) what's really killing us is not having guys like Loewe or Stephens to help him.
 

gopherbadgerman

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If Pitino were still here and MN had Gabe, Mashburn, and Carr they would be in the top 3-4 of the B10 and we’d all be arguing about how high of an NCAA seed they were looking at.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Yep, every coach in his second season has a a FR class, a SO class, and recruits in waiting. That's just math.

Of course Iowa State brought in transfers. So did we. We brought in Willis, Loewe, Battle, Garcia, Cooper, Fox, Samuels, Stephens, Daniels and Sutherlin. Everyone understands that Iowa State brought in transfers and everyone (except a few CBJ apologists) understand that we brought in a ton of transfers too.

Where in my post did I say Iowa State developed their own players? LOL. As far as how he got them, he recruited them. I have no idea if he cheated but I kind of doubt it.

Why can you only cheat with transfers? High school players can't accept money? Don't you think from the outside it seems more suspect that a program in our shape landed a top 11 HS player in the country?

I don't think Ben cheated, I am just saying your stance that Iowa State clearly cheated because they brought in transfers is idiotic. (a) we also brought in a ton of transfers; and (b) why would transfers be more likely to be bought than highly rated Hs players. It's a truly terrible take.
accepting money isn't cheating any more...the only cheating is academic and recruiting during quiet periods.
 




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