Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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WoodburyTim said:
If our own administration doesn't even believe that success for this program is making it to the NCAA's, I am not really sure that I see the point of investing time or money into the program. Our last few coaches didn't reach the level of expectations the fans and the school had for them, but at least there were expectations.
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If the choice is to keep kissing frogs or settle for a frog, I'm keeping up the kissing. If the choice for the Israelites was to keep wandering or hunker down, wandering is the only thing that'll eventually get you...somewhere else than where you are now.
 


bga1 said:
The money that comes in from TV now dwarfs the contract of a coach as compared to 5- 10 years ago. They have the funds. The NIL is a tougher issue because that can't come from the U coffers. I have been for retaining Ben, with the assumption that he can retain the loyalty of the bulk of his roster, because I agree that the disposable coach thing doesn't work. The problem with Ben is not his fault- he was just a terrible hire in terms of qualifications. When tough times hit, which they were certain to, it is easy for fans, players, recruits and boosters to lose faith because he has no resume that proves he can do it.

Losing Payne is a watershed moment. It's too late to fire Ben, but this is it. Win this year or be done with this.
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I hate losing Payne. But why is that a watershed moment for Ben? If the money is out there and Payne goes for it, what’s Ben to do? Tie him to the basket stanchion? Lock him up at Stub and Herbs? It’s the new reality. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 yrs ago is pointless. I have heard Storr is leaving WI? Is that their watershed moment. There’s literally hundreds of players in the portal, that’s a lot of watershed moments.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Agree that the center position is going to look different without Payne because finding a big guy that can move like him is difficult. Assuming Garcia returns it will be on the staff to find some big guys that can complement Dawson's playing style. Doubtful they find a big with a similar makeup to Payne but if they find the right mix of guys they can limit the impact of the loss.

I disagree some with the idea that losing Payne is an indictment of Ben though. It is far more an indictment of the messed up college basketball landscape because in the past it would be unlikely for a guy like Payne to transfer out but in this current day and age it is becoming commonplace for guys to jump ship. Think I read in another thread that the total number of players in the portal is approaching 2,000 already.....that is ridiculous.

This portal class is going to be far and away Johnson's most vital one. He has to find a way to improve upon last year or it would seem highly unlikely that he will get a 5th season. Going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out since it doesn't appear Coyle is planning to make a coaching change this off season. Although if he does I don't think you will find very many people that wouldn't think it was a justifiable move at this point.
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Payne also improved over the course of the year, which got him into the position to be successful in the portal. Coaching had a hand in that development.
 

Gopheritnow said:
I hate losing Payne. But why is that a watershed moment for Ben? If the money is out there and Payne goes for it, what’s Ben to do? Tie him to the basket stanchion? Lock him up at Stub and Herbs? It’s the new reality. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 yrs ago is pointless. I have heard Storr is leaving WI? Is that their watershed moment. There’s literally hundreds of players in the portal, that’s a lot of watershed moments.
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"Gophers athletics director Mark Coyle realized how strong Ben Johnson's Minnesota ties were three years ago — while interviewing others for the job. "It was amazing how many of the other candidates we talked to that said their first phone call would be to Ben Johnson to get him on the staff," "

if the plan was to create a brand primarily focused on recruiting minnesota, that's kind of out the window now.
 


Gopheritnow said:
I hate losing Payne. But why is that a watershed moment for Ben? If the money is out there and Payne goes for it, what’s Ben to do? Tie him to the basket stanchion? Lock him up at Stub and Herbs? It’s the new reality. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 yrs ago is pointless. I have heard Storr is leaving WI? Is that their watershed moment. There’s literally hundreds of players in the portal, that’s a lot of watershed moments.
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It's not a watershed moment for Ben. I agree. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 years ago is pointless. That might also be true. But building a program they way Ben thought it should be run three years ago might also be pointless. Hopefully the events of the last week open the eyes of anybody that thought this was about "closing the border" and "building long term brick by brick." Like it or not (I don't), the college landscape has changed dramatically to a free agency and NIL model. Ben Johnson needs to adapt or we need to find somebody that will.
 

Gopheritnow said:
I hate losing Payne. But why is that a watershed moment for Ben? If the money is out there and Payne goes for it, what’s Ben to do? Tie him to the basket stanchion? Lock him up at Stub and Herbs? It’s the new reality. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 yrs ago is pointless. I have heard Storr is leaving WI? Is that their watershed moment. There’s literally hundreds of players in the portal, that’s a lot of watershed moments.
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Yeah, blaming coaches for players leaving in this current landscape isn't really fair. Guys are jumping ship all over the country and even some of the power programs are losing guys to the portal. Just look around college basketball, having 3-4-5 or more players in the portal is becoming the norm for a lot of teams.

Payne leaving doesn't change Ben's situation in terms of expectations for next year. It might make it tougher for him to meet those expectations but he likely has to make the tournament in year 4 regardless of what happens with the players currently on the roster.
 

GopherOhana said:
"Gophers athletics director Mark Coyle realized how strong Ben Johnson's Minnesota ties were three years ago — while interviewing others for the job. "It was amazing how many of the other candidates we talked to that said their first phone call would be to Ben Johnson to get him on the staff," "

if the plan was to create a brand primarily focused on recruiting minnesota, that's kind of out the window now.
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Yeah, the landscapes of college football and basketball have shifted drastically over the last few years. Horrible timing when it comes to hiring a first time head coach but at this point it is on Johnson to figure out how to survive using the portal or he is almost certainly out of a job at this time next year.
 

Gopheritnow said:
I hate losing Payne. But why is that a watershed moment for Ben? If the money is out there and Payne goes for it, what’s Ben to do? Tie him to the basket stanchion? Lock him up at Stub and Herbs? It’s the new reality. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 yrs ago is pointless. I have heard Storr is leaving WI? Is that their watershed moment. There’s literally hundreds of players in the portal, that’s a lot of watershed moments.
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Just so people understand the Storr situation, he put his name in for the NBA draft, and that's his preferred destination. Storr might get a "stay-in-college" grade from the combine (which I think is likely), but that's not until next month. Wisconsin has to proceed as if he's not coming back and shop the portal for his replacement now. Storr also put his name in the portal in order to protect himself and have a landing spot if he doesn't stay in the draft, How many rich NIL schools will wait for him is a good question, Wisconsin may get him back if it's his best option - you just have no way of projecting how this will turn out.

I think this is now the right way for a player testing the NBA waters to do it.

This is not the same as Payne (or Hunter Dickinson, or Jamison Battle or probably a myriad of others) who are primarily looking to move up in the college ranks (likely NIL $, but also for showcasing purposes).
 



Gopheritnow said:
I hate losing Payne. But why is that a watershed moment for Ben? If the money is out there and Payne goes for it, what’s Ben to do? Tie him to the basket stanchion? Lock him up at Stub and Herbs? It’s the new reality. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 yrs ago is pointless. I have heard Storr is leaving WI? Is that their watershed moment. There’s literally hundreds of players in the portal, that’s a lot of watershed moments.
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Because we need to eventually win basketball games and it will be really difficult for the U to replace Payne with someone as good as Payne. This makes it a watershed moment for Ben because the main defense of Ben was that the team was building the "right way" and they were building towards something.
 

Gopheritnow said:
I hate losing Payne. But why is that a watershed moment for Ben? If the money is out there and Payne goes for it, what’s Ben to do? Tie him to the basket stanchion? Lock him up at Stub and Herbs? It’s the new reality. Judging coaches the way they were assessed 3 yrs ago is pointless. I have heard Storr is leaving WI? Is that their watershed moment. There’s literally hundreds of players in the portal, that’s a lot of watershed moments.
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Because the only thing Ben and Ben Lovers were clinging to was his MN recruiting prowess and "wait til next year when we keep this team together!" and Payne/Carrington leaving blow up both narratives. So now we're left with "he might hit a grand slam in the portal" even though there's little evidence he will. So we'll waste another year.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
This isn’t a youth issue, this is a coaching and roster construction issue. It’s not going to get much better next season.

When you hire someone who doesn’t have any credentials to be a B1G coach, this is what you get. This is the worst Gopher basketball team I’ve seen in my lifetime.
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How about the hockey coach or Dawn with just one player out the ship sank quickly
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah, the landscapes of college football and basketball have shifted drastically over the last few years. Horrible timing when it comes to hiring a first time head coach but at this point it is on Johnson to figure out how to survive using the portal or he is almost certainly out of a job at this time next year.
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There is a lot of head coaches in the same position. You could argue any head coach below a NET ranking of 40 has this dilemma as well. I would think a lot the of mid-major programs will have their top players heavily targeted every year. Will be tough going for head coaches of those programs.
 



It’s amazing how the BHC (Ben Haters Club) can ignore what has happened to college sports due to NIL. It’s a follow the money era. Someone posted there’s 2000 players in the portal? That seems very high?. So MN isn’t the only one in this situation. It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference who you get to coach in this current time frame if the NIL coop doesn’t generate the cash, or as it seems in our case, is not interested in making BB a priority.
And anyone who thinks the U is going to shell out big bucks for a big name coach, or that a big name coach would even come here in the situation we now seem to be in, should share what they are smoking with everyone!
 

Gopheritnow said:
It’s amazing how the BHC (Ben Haters Club) can ignore what has happened to college sports due to NIL. It’s a follow the money era. Someone posted there’s 2000 players in the portal? That seems very high?. So MN isn’t the only one in this situation. It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference who you get to coach in this current time frame if the NIL coop doesn’t generate the cash, or as it seems in our case, is not interested in making BB a priority.
And anyone who thinks the U is going to shell out big bucks for a big name coach, or that a big name coach would even come here in the situation we now seem to be in, should share what they are smoking with everyone!
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Actually none of us have ignored NIL/transfer portal. We've been stating that navigating the portal has been a part of the job since day 1, and he inherited the same situation as most other new coaches at that time, which is the truth.

It's amazing how the BLC (Ben Lovers Club) has been telling us for 3 years that we have to give him time to develop his own recruits since he 'inherited nothing'. Now that they're all gone, it's not Ben's fault, it's college basketball's fault. Always pointing the finger somewhere else.

Most are not expecting a big name coach. Most are expecting better than being the worst coach in Gophers history. There are coaches doing a significantly better job than Ben at similar or lower level schools with fewer resources all over the country.
 

Gopheritnow said:
It’s amazing how the BHC (Ben Haters Club) can ignore what has happened to college sports due to NIL. It’s a follow the money era. Someone posted there’s 2000 players in the portal? That seems very high?. So MN isn’t the only one in this situation. It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference who you get to coach in this current time frame if the NIL coop doesn’t generate the cash, or as it seems in our case, is not interested in making BB a priority.
And anyone who thinks the U is going to shell out big bucks for a big name coach, or that a big name coach would even come here in the situation we now seem to be in, should share what they are smoking with everyone!
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Indiana state has a better program than we do right now, do they have a big name coach?
 

Outside of Thorson, we don't hear too much about our other assistant coaches; Kemp, Adel, and Jenkins. How would we grade these hires? Would Coyle or Ben moved on from any of the assistant coaches?
 


Spottedmuskie said:
Outside of Thorson, we don't hear too much about our other assistant coaches; Kemp, Adel, and Jenkins. How would we grade these hires? Would Coyle or Ben moved on from any of the assistant coaches?
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Basketball assistants tend to be pretty anonymous. I'm honestly not sure I could name an assistant on another Big Ten staff off the top of my head.
 

For ADs in today's world, I think it's gotten really difficult to identify a coach in either basketball or football who a) has head coaching experience, b) has been involved in and had success in portal recruiting at a P5, ideally with average-ish NIL resources, c) has a winning track record, and d) is gettable financially. I think criterion b might be the smallest circle in the Venn diagram - you probably just have to take a chance based on their personality.

You may think Ben hasn't been successful here and - for a myriad of reasons that are and are not under his control - doesn't seem likely to turn the corner. I am in that camp. But, I'm not sure anyone could succeed at MN given the set of circumstances. Really the main thing that would make a difference in the trajectory, IMO, is an infusion of whale money for NIL.
 

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