Ben Johnson is a Disaster

Donate To GopherHole
mngg11 said:
I'm guilty of hyperbole from time to time myself but to say dude doesn't have a clue after stringing together nine wins in the Big Ten is off the chains. I'd argue that even implying that he's in over his head is an exaggeration. He just isn't the top tier coach that everyone wants us to have. The question is, how tolerable is that at the admin level and for how long? Dude made big progress this year, I think he'll have a baseline expectation to match nine conference wins next year and if he's struggling, he'll have a really hot seat. NIL and the portal have made coaching changes across the board really risky endeavors as well; I think we'll see a lot of programs hang onto not so great coaches for longer to try to maintain stability, because without that stability up top, the chaos at the roster level could be even worse.
Click to expand...
9 wins works next year for you? This is it. NCAAs or he has to be fired.
 

CPTMidnight said:
I sympathize with your fantasy. Would be great if we could just insert our best conspiracy into the discussion and, "Poof", now Coyle didn't present him and lead the decision making process.

Coyle: Anything less than just telling the president - if she wants to make the decision then she should make the announcement is chicken$#|t.

Sheesh - can you imagine Barry Alvarez back at Wisconsin saying - I would really like a good coach Ms. President but I'm afraid I might lose my job so just tell me who to hire and Ill pretend it was my idea.
Click to expand...
Madison isn't as woke as the u of m....
 

bga1 said:
and he improved big time. He will be a beast next year. 14pts-10 boards

He never let it stop him from playing hard and sacrificing his body

He shot 60% and was often double teamed

True

Check the stats- this is not true. He got 4 fouls three times and fouled out once this year. His bad fouls came on the hard hedge usually and I hate that scheme

Very true. I will be shocked if we get an equal or better replacement. This won't be a real plus for local recruiting either...
Click to expand...
Don't disagree. It is a bad look regardless of what was going on.

The argument for keeping CBJ was the local recruiting angle and this core group he was going to build around. I am not aware of the AAU circuit bending over backwards to infuse the program with talent, so either someone isn't holding up their end of the bargain or it was complete crap from the get go.

I was hopeful he could get this turned around. The team showed promise. They had a chance to finish in the upper tier of the B1G but fell apart. Now reports of malcontents dragging things down and the core bolting brings up serious questions. Dissension in the ranks is a leadership issue. No getting around it.

The portal is going to be critical. Does he have the experience and staff to backfill effectively? I really don't know (lean "no", however).

Coyle certainly has more insight than any of us have. Let's see what happens I guess.

Personally, I feel it is time to move on.
 
Last edited:

CentralGopher said:
I was one of those critical of his limitations and development but still don’t think he isn’t irreplaceable. His space eating size, speed, and ability to defend will not be replaced easily. Big men that mobile are very hard to find. Losing him imo is an indictment of Ben.
Click to expand...
Agree that the center position is going to look different without Payne because finding a big guy that can move like him is difficult. Assuming Garcia returns it will be on the staff to find some big guys that can complement Dawson's playing style. Doubtful they find a big with a similar makeup to Payne but if they find the right mix of guys they can limit the impact of the loss.

I disagree some with the idea that losing Payne is an indictment of Ben though. It is far more an indictment of the messed up college basketball landscape because in the past it would be unlikely for a guy like Payne to transfer out but in this current day and age it is becoming commonplace for guys to jump ship. Think I read in another thread that the total number of players in the portal is approaching 2,000 already.....that is ridiculous.

This portal class is going to be far and away Johnson's most vital one. He has to find a way to improve upon last year or it would seem highly unlikely that he will get a 5th season. Going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out since it doesn't appear Coyle is planning to make a coaching change this off season. Although if he does I don't think you will find very many people that wouldn't think it was a justifiable move at this point.
 

bga1 said:
9 wins works next year for you? This is it. NCAAs or he has to be fired.
Click to expand...
Obviously, the story of the off season has yet to be written, and the Gophs have all kinds of playing time to offer a transfer center or two, but making the NCAA tourney would have to be considered a fanciful goal at this point. The administration is keeping Johnson with this knowledge. If their plan is to fire him if they don't go to the Dance, that's an unrealistic and nonsensical approach.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Agree that the center position is going to look different without Payne because finding a big guy that can move like him is difficult. Assuming Garcia returns it will be on the staff to find some big guys that can complement Dawson's playing style. Doubtful they find a big with a similar makeup to Payne but if they find the right mix of guys they can limit the impact of the loss.

I disagree some with the idea that losing Payne is an indictment of Ben though. It is far more an indictment of the messed up college basketball landscape because in the past it would be unlikely for a guy like Payne to transfer out but in this current day and age it is becoming commonplace for guys to jump ship. Think I read in another thread that the total number of players in the portal is approaching 2,000 already.....that is ridiculous.

This portal class is going to be far and away Johnson's most vital one. He has to find a way to improve upon last year or it would seem highly unlikely that he will get a 5th season. Going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out since it doesn't appear Coyle is planning to make a coaching change this off season. Although if he does I don't think you will find very many people that wouldn't think it was a justifiable move at this point.
Click to expand...
The poster here who seems to be connected said- it wasn't just NIL and Payne wanted out. Here is a hometown kid, recruited by Ben, who starts and wants out. Why? To me that is an indictment of Ben. If he is the only guy- well ok. But by all accounts since he was recruited Payne is a great kid who soaks up teaching and progresses. It feels like he has a lack of confidence in what Ben is doing here. That wouldn't be any different that more than 50% of those who watch the games on this board. This one is a straw that is breaking the camel's back for me. Something is wrong. Sure Ben has a chance to replace them with equal or better. For that I will wait and see.
 

Way too much talent in Mn HS basketball for us to keep giving the reins to Ben. Time to hire someone who can competently compete within the Big10 year after year and have us be a destination school for hoops. He doesn’t have it or “it”. Problem is we have dum dum Coyle running the place who is he going to attract?
 


Bad Gopher said:
Obviously, the story of the off season has yet to be written, and the Gophs have all kinds of playing time to offer a transfer center or two, but making the NCAA tourney would have to be considered a fanciful goal at this point. The administration is keeping Johnson with this knowledge. If their plan is to fire him if they don't go to the Dance, that's an unrealistic and nonsensical approach.
Click to expand...
So then we wait 5 years to see if he can make the tournament? What if it appears fanciful after this year that he will make it in year 5?
 



DarthGopher said:
Don't disagree. It is a bad look regardless of what was going on.

The argument for keeping CBJ was the local recruiting angle and this core group he was going to build around. I am not aware of the AAU circuit bending over backwards to infuse the program with talent, so either someone isn't holding up their end of the bargain or it was complete crap from the get go.

I was hopeful he could get this turned around. The team showed promise. They had a chance to finish in the upper tier of the B1G but fell apart. Now reports of malcontents dragging things down and the core bolting brings up serious questions. Dissension in the ranks is a leadership issue. No getting around it.
Click to expand...

Worse yet- it's the local kids. It's not imports who get homesick we are talking about here.
DarthGopher said:
The portal is going to be critical. Does he have the experience and staff to backfill effectively? I really don't know (lean "no", however).

Coyle certainly has more insight than any of us have. Let's see what happens I guess.

Personally, I feel it is time to move on.
Click to expand...
 

Bad Gopher said:
Obviously, the story of the off season has yet to be written, and the Gophs have all kinds of playing time to offer a transfer center or two, but making the NCAA tourney would have to be considered a fanciful goal at this point. The administration is keeping Johnson with this knowledge. If their plan is to fire him if they don't go to the Dance, that's an unrealistic and nonsensical approach.
Click to expand...

He'll have 4 years to make the tournament. If he doesn't, how would firing him be unrealistic and nonsensical? That's a pretty typical and reasonable baseline for any coach at any P6 program.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Obviously, the story of the off season has yet to be written, and the Gophs have all kinds of playing time to offer a transfer center or two, but making the NCAA tourney would have to be considered a fanciful goal at this point. The administration is keeping Johnson with this knowledge. If their plan is to fire him if they don't go to the Dance, that's an unrealistic and nonsensical approach.
Click to expand...
Why? Because all the players he chooses to have on the roster are leaving...... That makes it nonsensical??? F that... If he survives this offseason.. it's ncaas or gone...
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
He'll have 4 years to make the tournament. If he doesn't, how would firing him be unrealistic and nonsensical? That's a pretty typical and reasonable baseline for any coach at any P6 program.
Click to expand...
I think what BG is saying is the administration already knows the NCAA's are a long shot with this exodus and the hometown story angle took a massive hit. So why protract the inevitable through another season? Fix "the glitch" now. It is going to hurt one way or another, so just get it over with already.
 



The other thing I find odd is we've heard nothing from the coach since this all went down. If the buyout drops Monday, could it be he's on the way out? It is April Fool's on Monday. This is tempting.....
 

MNVCGUY said:
Agree that the center position is going to look different without Payne because finding a big guy that can move like him is difficult. Assuming Garcia returns it will be on the staff to find some big guys that can complement Dawson's playing style. Doubtful they find a big with a similar makeup to Payne but if they find the right mix of guys they can limit the impact of the loss.

I disagree some with the idea that losing Payne is an indictment of Ben though. It is far more an indictment of the messed up college basketball landscape because in the past it would be unlikely for a guy like Payne to transfer out but in this current day and age it is becoming commonplace for guys to jump ship. Think I read in another thread that the total number of players in the portal is approaching 2,000 already.....that is ridiculous.

This portal class is going to be far and away Johnson's most vital one. He has to find a way to improve upon last year or it would seem highly unlikely that he will get a 5th season. Going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out since it doesn't appear Coyle is planning to make a coaching change this off season. Although if he does I don't think you will find very many people that wouldn't think it was a justifiable move at this point.
Click to expand...
Ben wasn't hired for transfer portal, even more reason to dump him. Dawson has basically saved him with his specific familial reasons for coming home to play.
 


goldengophers said:
Ben wasn't hired for transfer portal, even more reason to dump him. Dawson has basically saved him with his specific familial reasons for coming home to play.
Click to expand...
don't disagree but the person who gets to make that decision seems inclined to not make a move right now so those in here continuing to call for a coaching change are just wasting their time.
 

DarthGopher said:
I think what BG is saying is the administration already knows the NCAA's are a long shot with this exodus and the hometown story angle took a massive hit. So why protract the inevitable through another season? Fix "the glitch" now. It is going to hurt one way or another, so just get it over with already.
Click to expand...

As of right now they are still keeping 4 of 5 starters off of an 'improving' team. Then they'll add Asuma and whoever else coming in from the transfer portal.

The buyout will decrease, and the optics will be better if Ben is given another year. Fire him now and there would be some local media outrage saying he wasn't given enough of a chance, and maybe some potential new coaches would also feel that way.

Obviously I don't think Ben is the right coach, it has been obvious for awhile, and we continue to waste our time as long as he's in charge.

But after 4 years if you can't make the NCAA tournament, and have the worst record of any previous head coach that was given 4 years, there will be very little argument by anyone to make a change after next season. Plus the 4 starters that are currently returning will likely all be gone after next season.
 


DarthGopher said:
I think what BG is saying is the administration already knows the NCAA's are a long shot with this exodus and the hometown story angle took a massive hit. So why protract the inevitable through another season? Fix "the glitch" now. It is going to hurt one way or another, so just get it over with already.
Click to expand...
That's exactly it. I'm rhetorically asking what the plan is and, whatever it is, whether it's realistic. It continues to feel like we're kicking the can down the road to nowhere. And for what? Optics? Really?

 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
As of right now they are still keeping 4 of 5 starters off of an 'improving' team. Then they'll add Asuma and whoever else coming in from the transfer portal.

The buyout will decrease, and the optics will be better if Ben is given another year. Fire him now and there would be some local media outrage saying he wasn't given enough of a chance, and maybe some potential new coaches would also feel that way.

Obviously I don't think Ben is the right coach, it has been obvious for awhile, and we continue to waste our time as long as he's in charge.

But after 4 years if you can't make the NCAA tournament, and have the worst record of any previous head coach that was given 4 years, there will be very little argument by anyone to make a change after next season. Plus the 4 starters that are currently returning will likely all be gone after next season.
Click to expand...
Yep, this sums it up.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
As of right now they are still keeping 4 of 5 starters off of an 'improving' team. Then they'll add Asuma and whoever else coming in from the transfer portal.

The buyout will decrease, and the optics will be better if Ben is given another year. Fire him now and there would be some local media outrage saying he wasn't given enough of a chance, and maybe some potential new coaches would also feel that way.

Obviously I don't think Ben is the right coach, it has been obvious for awhile, and we continue to waste our time as long as he's in charge.

But after 4 years if you can't make the NCAA tournament, and have the worst record of any previous head coach that was given 4 years, there will be very little argument by anyone to make a change after next season. Plus the 4 starters that are currently returning will likely all be gone after next season.
Click to expand...
With the transfers I don't think you would find many people who would gripe much if Coyle decided to make the change right now. But yeah, if the team falls short of the tournament again next year you will be very hard pressed to find anyone that will strongly advocate for him to get a 5th year.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Obviously, the story of the off season has yet to be written, and the Gophs have all kinds of playing time to offer a transfer center or two, but making the NCAA tourney would have to be considered a fanciful goal at this point. The administration is keeping Johnson with this knowledge. If their plan is to fire him if they don't go to the Dance, that's an unrealistic and nonsensical approach.
Click to expand...
Exactly. If the NCAA's next year isn't the goal, then what are we doing? Garcia, Hawkins and Christie wouldn't be back for 2026, so the NCAA's can't be the goal for year 5 either. So Ben gets another pass? Maybe in year 6?
 
Last edited:

bga1 said:
9 wins works next year for you? This is it. NCAAs or he has to be fired.
Click to expand...
I never said what works or doesn't for me, trying to be realistic overall. Maybe that's my mistake considering the board I'm on🤷
 

Bad Gopher said:
Obviously, the story of the off season has yet to be written, and the Gophs have all kinds of playing time to offer a transfer center or two, but making the NCAA tourney would have to be considered a fanciful goal at this point. The administration is keeping Johnson with this knowledge. If their plan is to fire him if they don't go to the Dance, that's an unrealistic and nonsensical approach.
Click to expand...
If our own administration doesn't even believe that success for this program is making it to the NCAA's, I am not really sure that I see the point of investing time or money into the program. Our last few coaches didn't reach the level of expectations the fans and the school had for them, but at least there were expectations.
 

mngg11 said:
I never said what works or doesn't for me, trying to be realistic overall. Maybe that's my mistake considering the board I'm on🤷
Click to expand...
Realistic is expecting an overall winning percentage north of 40, making the dance half the time, and making the NIT most of the times we miss the tourney. We know that is achievable because we fired a coach for only achieving that level of success in the not so distant pass, so surely that is a reasonable floor for expectations.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I disagree some with the idea that losing Payne is an indictment of Ben though. It is far more an indictment of the messed up college basketball landscape because in the past it would be unlikely for a guy like Payne to transfer out but in this current day and age it is becoming commonplace for guys to jump ship. Think I read in another thread that the total number of players in the portal is approaching 2,000 already.....that is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Do you think Oturu would have left?
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Realistic is expecting an overall winning percentage north of 40, making the dance half the time, and making the NIT most of the times we miss the tourney. We know that is achievable because we fired a coach for only achieving that level of success in the not so distant pass, so surely that is a reasonable floor for expectations.
Click to expand...
I feel like all of that is very subjective, especially with the new college athletics environment we're in. I don't think a reasonable person would consider it appropriate to terminate a coach every few years if we weren't making the tournament regularly and displaying a high caliber team year in and year out when we're not a traditional basketball power and kids can now come and go as they please with little detriment to their own development. The game is different now than it was in the past. The money needed to keep firing/buying out and hiring new coaches, plus the need for money to buy and retain basketball players, has made traditional expectations really unrealistic. Pitino was coaching in an entirely different world then than Johnson is now. I'm no Johnson advocate, but where we've found ourselves as a whole with the catch and release mentality in terms of coaching is never going to work and cutting a guy loose who made a significant jump based on expectations and his previous body of work at this time is reckless considering the money at play.
 

mngg11 said:
I feel like all of that is very subjective, especially with the new college athletics environment we're in. I don't think a reasonable person would consider it appropriate to terminate a coach every few years if we weren't making the tournament regularly and displaying a high caliber team year in and year out when we're not a traditional basketball power and kids can now come and go as they please with little detriment to their own development. The game is different now than it was in the past. The money needed to keep firing/buying out and hiring new coaches, plus the need for money to buy and retain basketball players, has made traditional expectations really unrealistic. Pitino was coaching in an entirely different world then than Johnson is now. I'm no Johnson advocate, but where we've found ourselves as a whole with the catch and release mentality in terms of coaching is never going to work and cutting a guy loose who made a significant jump based on expectations and his previous body of work at this time is reckless considering the money at play.
Click to expand...
The money that comes in from TV now dwarfs the contract of a coach as compared to 5- 10 years ago. They have the funds. The NIL is a tougher issue because that can't come from the U coffers. I have been for retaining Ben, with the assumption that he can retain the loyalty of the bulk of his roster, because I agree that the disposable coach thing doesn't work. The problem with Ben is not his fault- he was just a terrible hire in terms of qualifications. When tough times hit, which they were certain to, it is easy for fans, players, recruits and boosters to lose faith because he has no resume that proves he can do it.

Losing Payne is a watershed moment. It's too late to fire Ben, but this is it. Win this year or be done with this.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom