Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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stocker08 said:
How should I know? If I had to guess.....I'd say that the conference is underrated.



I think so too.
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Okay, based on what then? Can you give any evidence to support that? I'm willing to listen if so.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Okay, based on what then? Can you give any evidence to support that? I'm willing to listen if so.
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Considering the conference has only been playing one another for the past two and a half months.....why don't we wait and see how they matchup in the tournament. We know that the 2020 Big Ten was massively overrated based on the fact that they historically underperformed.
 


stocker08 said:
Considering the conference has only been playing one another for the past two and a half months.....why don't we wait and see how they matchup in the tournament. We know that the 2020 Big Ten was massively overrated based on the fact that they historically underperformed.
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So you're going to use a one game sample size to make a determination as opposed to using 31+ games? That doesn't make a lot of sense, but okay.

I guess Purdue was massively overrated last year.
 



MNVCGUY said:
The class is 2 players and one of them is a 4* top 100 Point guard. If Grove turns out to be a bust then the decision to give him a scholarship can certainly be questioned but we won't know that until he gets on campus and has a chance to show what he can do.

And although some of you are going to keep calling for it, seems highly unlikely you will get your wish of a new coach granted until around this time next year at the earliest. Unless things go sideways roster wise this off season and they elect to make a move.
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Rated a 4 star by who?
 






kg21 said:
Not by rivals.
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You are certainly free to look at any rankings you want, but a note, 5-10 years ago rivals was the standard, they are not that anymore. They are one of the worst recruiting sites out there. And naturally every site has hits and misses but just stating rivals isn't what it used to be in the industry.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
That's a good question. I'd guess that schools have some obligation to the NCAA to disclose what athletes are actually getting. Schools (or maybe the collectives) do have online sites where they list fees required to get certain services from athletes (autographs, appearances, twitter (X) shout outs, phone calls, etc.). I think Dinkytown has one and some Big East school I looked at (Providence I think) has one.
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It’s still hard to decide if a coach can’t keep players, or can’t outbid for them, without some numbers. Cousins just left, and the numbers give us some insight into the decision by the Vikings to leave him skate. But if some of our players leave, no one knows if the U’s NIL was outbid, or if they left due to disagreements with the coach. Add on booster money to incentivize high schoolers to go to a certain school, and it makes criticizing recruiting results difficult, since no one has any actual information.
 

skiumah1 said:
I think PJ Fleck (And Football) is ultimately how an AD is judged. How much money is that program bringing in?

It's been a decent program with Fleck. Not as good as we'd once thought, but it's been good.
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If you are hanging Coyle's career on Fleck it seems thin. Not completely empty but certainly not the hallmark of an AD genius to get the bowl-nod because we have the best grades. Basketball - six years of Pitino and now BJ (and I like Ben and hope runs the table in the B10 Tourney and gets coach of the year) do not really get me too excited about his performance. What else does he have to hang his hat on? Hockey - maybe/probably but the U is the Yankee Stadium of college hockey. Womens basketball? Do any of the other sports even warrant a 1.4m dollar salary?

Here is a guy that assembles coaching candidates, has the most influence in swaying a committee, in some cases makes direct hires, manages the coaches, fires them and makes many direct player decisions including discipline. When the students create a mock trial and try to get a player removed from a team he has the most ability to shut it down. I am kind-of a Football fan but a fully committed basketball fan and when I am looking at it he has done nothing for me. Zero... Nada...

Question: All you disaster people who say the reason we have had a mediocre basketball team is because the fans settle for mediocrity in a coach. Coyle is the guy that hires, manages, and protects the coaches and would be primarily responsible for any new coach. What say you? You think Coyle has your back if there were another hire?

(save the "Coyle isn't going anywhere" comments because neither is Ben)
 



Gopheritnow said:
It’s still hard to decide if a coach can’t keep players, or can’t outbid for them, without some numbers. Cousins just left, and the numbers give us some insight into the decision by the Vikings to leave him skate. But if some of our players leave, no one knows if the U’s NIL was outbid, or if they left due to disagreements with the coach. Add on booster money to incentivize high schoolers to go to a certain school, and it makes criticizing recruiting results difficult, since no one has any actual information.
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There are definitely a lot more layers involved in recruiting and roster retention now than there ever has been.

And again, I know there is little sympathy for coaches due to what they make salary wise but I can't imagine what it is like trying to navigate this constantly changing landscape right now. On the football side there are a number of coaches that have gotten out and have specifically talked about all these non sports related factors being a major reason for why they left. Would prefer to be a coach as opposed to a CEO/GM trying to navigate through the chaos.
 

CPTMidnight said:
If you are hanging Coyle's career on Fleck it seems thin. Not completely empty but certainly not the hallmark of an AD genius to get the bowl-nod because we have the best grades. Basketball - six years of Pitino and now BJ (and I like Ben and hope runs the table in the B10 Tourney and gets coach of the year) do not really get me too excited about his performance. What else does he have to hang his hat on? Hockey - maybe/probably but the U is the Yankee Stadium of college hockey. Womens basketball? Do any of the other sports even warrant a 1.4m dollar salary?

Here is a guy that assembles coaching candidates, has the most influence in swaying a committee, in some cases makes direct hires, manages the coaches, fires them and makes many direct player decisions including discipline. When the students create a mock trial and try to get a player removed from a team he has the most ability to shut it down. I am kind-of a Football fan but a fully committed basketball fan and when I am looking at it he has done nothing for me. Zero... Nada...

Question: All you disaster people who say the reason we have had a mediocre basketball team is because the fans settle for mediocrity in a coach. Coyle is the guy that hires, manages, and protects the coaches and would be primarily responsible for any new coach. What say you? You think Coyle has your back if there were another hire?

(save the "Coyle isn't going anywhere" comments because neither is Ben)
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You're assuming Coyle was behind the BJ hiring. A lot of us find that hard to believe based on Coyle's track record of hiring a top candidate for pretty much every other opening that he has had to fill.

Some of us also find it hard to believe that Coyle wanted to fire Pitino, in order to hire one of his failed assistants a week later, who wasn't a candidate for any other job, before being able to interview other top candidates that were interested in the job.

BJ was the outgoing presidents hire. Now that she's gone, we'll see if Minnesota wants to be competitive in basketball again.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You're assuming Coyle was behind the BJ hiring. A lot of us find that hard to believe based on Coyle's track record of hiring a top candidate for pretty much every other opening that he has had to fill.

Some of us also find it hard to believe that Coyle wanted to fire Pitino, in order to hire one of his failed assistants a week later, who wasn't a candidate for any other job, before being able to interview other top candidates that were interested in the job.

BJ was the outgoing presidents hire. Now that she's gone, we'll see if Minnesota wants to be competitive in basketball again.
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It's plausible but just a theory. It also takes a bit of dancing around all the facts to assume that Coyle was a victim during his first 8 years of managing the basketball program and now will be the hero if he is ever allowed a chance to finally make his own decisions.
Just sayin... if you guys were really serious you would be going after Coyle, not Ben.
 

CPTMidnight said:
It's plausible but just a theory. It also takes a bit of dancing around all the facts to assume that Coyle was a victim during his first 8 years of managing the basketball program and now will be the hero if he is ever allowed a chance to finally make his own decisions.
Just sayin... if you guys were really serious you would be going after Coyle, not Ben.
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It's not just a theory. BJ had zero qualifications to be hired for this job. Ben is the biggest disaster to ever coach MN basketball. There are zero reasons to not go after Ben, who is responsible for this mess.

Pitino went to the NCAA tournament 2 of the first 3 years he worked under Coyle, and the season in between those they were ranked 12th before injuries derailed everything. You're trying to blame anyone else but Ben, which is nonsense.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's not just a theory. BJ had zero qualifications to be hired for this job. Ben is the biggest disaster to ever coach MN basketball. There are zero reasons to not go after Ben, who is responsible for this mess.

Pitino went to the NCAA tournament 2 of the first 3 years he worked under Coyle, and the season in between those they were ranked 12th before injuries derailed everything. You're trying to blame anyone else but Ben, which is nonsense.
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More like an alleged rapist.
 


Gophers7633 said:
So you're going to use a one game sample size to make a determination as opposed to using 31+ games? That doesn't make a lot of sense, but okay.

I guess Purdue was massively overrated last year.
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When the conference plays most of their games against one another for the majority of the season? When the conferences top 25 teams basically all lose the first weekend against mid majors and middling teams from other conferences? It wasn't one or two teams that fumbled the ball. The entire conference underperformed. Nine teams in the tournament. Only one managed to make the second weekend. And I'm not trying to say that the Big Yen was BAD in 2020. But we're they the best conference in basketball? Worthy of the highest NET ranking? The tournament....which pits the best teams in the nation against one another painted a pretty clear picture.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's not just a theory. BJ had zero qualifications to be hired for this job. Ben is the biggest disaster to ever coach MN basketball. There are zero reasons to not go after Ben, who is responsible for this mess.

Pitino went to the NCAA tournament 2 of the first 3 years he worked under Coyle, and the season in between those they were ranked 12th before injuries derailed everything. You're trying to blame anyone else but Ben, which is nonsense.
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I am reading that you guys were big Pitino supporters and am too lazy to go back and look. Is that true?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's not just a theory. BJ had zero qualifications to be hired for this job. Ben is the biggest disaster to ever coach MN basketball. There are zero reasons to not go after Ben, who is responsible for this mess.

Pitino went to the NCAA tournament 2 of the first 3 years he worked under Coyle, and the season in between those they were ranked 12th before injuries derailed everything. You're trying to blame anyone else but Ben, which is nonsense.
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Pitino rode Tubby's coattails to a couple tournaments. He had eight years and basically only managed to go backwards. It was time to move on.....especially considering that his last few classes were full of players outside of a couple that weren't Big Ten caliber.

Hilarious to see you defending Pitino here. Complete revisionist history....as the general concensus was that he had to go.
 

CPTMidnight said:
I am reading that you guys were big Pitino supporters and am too lazy to go back and look. Is that true?
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I don't remember anyone defending Pitino and thinking we should keep him around during that 2020 meltdown.
 

stocker08 said:
When the conference plays most of their games against one another for the majority of the season? When the conferences top 25 teams basically all lose the first weekend against mid majors and middling teams from other conferences? It wasn't one or two teams that fumbled the ball. The entire conference underperformed. Nine teams in the tournament. Only one managed to make the second weekend. And I'm not trying to say that the Big Yen was BAD in 2020. But we're they the best conference in basketball? Worthy of the highest NET ranking? The tournament....which pits the best teams in the nation against one another painted a pretty clear picture.
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Okay, so was Purdue massively overrated last year? Do you think this year's Nebraska team is better than 2021 Iowa?
 

Gophers7633 said:
Okay, so was Purdue massively overrated last year? Do you think this year's Nebraska team is better than 2021 Iowa?
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Why do you think it's impossible for a conference that had one team make it to the sweet 16 in the tournament and played limited out of conference games was overrated?
 

I am just saying it sounds like you were against the last coach (because he sucked), against the current coach (because he sucks), and will be against the next coach (if he sucks) but the guy that hires and manages these people is OK.

...and your reasoning is that he is OK because he was too passive to push back against the president so now it is ok? (it does sound like Minnesota - Ill give you that)
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Why do you think it's impossible for a conference that had one team make it to the sweet 16 in the tournament and played limited out of conference games was overrated?
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I think making declarative statements based on a single game elimination tournament is extremely short-sighted. You're basically throwing out 30+ games of data, and using one game to come to your conclusion. Upsets happen. Were Purdue, Arizona, Kansas, Alabama and Marquette overrated last year as a collective unit? I'd say no, but maybe you think they were?
 

CPTMidnight said:
I am reading that you guys were big Pitino supporters and am too lazy to go back and look. Is that true?
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Not at the end. I wanted Pitino gone after the 2020 season, then Covid happened and no one made any moves.

That was after going to the NCAA tournament 2 of the previous 4 years. Now BJ has reduced the program to a level that's not even close to that.
 

stocker08 said:
Pitino rode Tubby's coattails to a couple tournaments. He had eight years and basically only managed to go backwards. It was time to move on.....especially considering that his last few classes were full of players outside of a couple that weren't Big Ten caliber.

Hilarious to see you defending Pitino here. Complete revisionist history....as the general concensus was that he had to go.
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Pitino had all of his own players both times he went to the NCAA tournament. Talk about revisionist history....
 

Gophers7633 said:
I think making declarative statements based on a single game elimination tournament is extremely short-sighted. You're basically throwing out 30+ games of data, and using one game to come to your conclusion. Upsets happen. Were Purdue, Arizona, Kansas, Alabama and Marquette overrated last year as a collective unit? I'd say no, but maybe you think they were?
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If all those teams played in the same conference and all of them got bounced by inferior teams (based on metrics), absolutely they would be.
 

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