Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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howeda7 said:
If 2 or more of Hawkins, Garcia, Christie or Payne leave, Coyle should really have the dump button ready.
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Ben likely already has a good idea of who is staying or going, and Coyle has likely already made a decision on whether Ben is staying or going. Coyle isn't making a decision on Ben's future based on giving a couple of players a few weeks after the season to make their own decisions.

If Ben's future is riding on the decision making of a couple of college students, then both Ben and Coyle should be fired.
 

stocker08 said:
In the non-conference, sure. But as I've already shown.....the Big Ten was way overvalued and the NET rankings were over-inflated. Nine teams made the tournament including two #1 seeds and two #2 seeds (FOUR of the top EIGHT teams in the tournament)......and only one made the second weekend.
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So the NET overvalued the league in 2021 but not this year? Do you realize the formula is the exact same? Also, you're focusing on the NET, but the schedule was tougher according to every other metric too.

Did Purdue not deserve a #1 seed last year because they lost in the first round? The answer is clearly no.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ben likely already has a good idea of who is staying or going, and Coyle has likely already made a decision on whether Ben is staying or going. Coyle isn't making a decision on Ben's future based on giving a couple of players a few weeks after the season to make their own decisions.

If Ben's future is riding on the decision making of a couple of college students, then both Ben and Coyle should be fired.
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Not sure it takes a few weeks. Last year about 4 guys announced they were transferring within 4-5 days of the end of the season. If the entire case for keeping Ben is "we're a top 25 team if everyone come back" and that blows up, why wouldn't you reassess?
 

bc2211 said:
I think that’s flawed class rankings that hinge on quantity. Not suggesting it’s an amazing class, though.
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Yes, you are correct. Bigger classes are ranked higher than smaller classes all things considered. Of course, kg21 is an idiot so it would be uncommon for him to write something that is unequivocally valid.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Yep....there are scenarios that could play out where the team could fall short of the tournament next year and Johnson's job would be safe. But those scenarios are much more narrow than they were in the first few seasons and if the team takes a big step backwards next year it would be extremely hard to justify not making a coaching change.
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Definitely.

Gophers7633 said:
So the NET overvalued the league in 2021 but not this year? Do you realize the formula is the exact same? Also, you're focusing on the NET, but the schedule was tougher according to every other metric too.

Did Purdue not deserve a #1 seed last year because they lost in the first round? The answer is clearly no.
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Yes. The Big Ten was the highest ranked conference in NET that year, four top ten teams in the final AP, and had 50% of the top two seeds. MASSIVELY underperformed in the tournament compared to seeding. Bad fortune....or overvalued conference as a whole? Certainly suggests that the Big Ten wasn't nearly as good as advertised.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I don't know why you think that is true. Here are some 2024 Big Ten players who have come from nonmajors:

2024:

Marcus Domansk (IL)
Justin Harmon (IL)
Lance Jones (Purdue)
Reink Mast (NE)
Brice Williams (NE)
Max Klesmit (WI)
Ben Krikke (IA)
Tyson Walker (MSU)
Jamison Battle (OSU)
Ace Baldwin (PSU)
Nick Kern (PSU)
Zach Hicks (PSU)
Jahmir Young (MD)

Of course, if we went back further, we'd find other good players from nonmajors (Kenny Pickett is a good example; in fact, PSU last season had several among their top players).

You know, if you challenged your old-wives-tale assumptions once in awhile and did some research, you'd be a better poster but I guess some old dogs just can't learn new tricks.
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I know you are talking BIG 10. However, don't forget about the best one of the year, Dalton Knecht @ Tennessee!!! Coming from Northern Colorado of all places to be, most likely, the SEC player of the year.
 





RockChalk said:
I know you are talking BIG 10. However, don't forget about the best one of the year, Dalton Knecht @ Tennessee!!! Coming from Northern Colorado of all places to be, most likely, the SEC player of the year.
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I had heard about him but I don't think I've seen him. Thanks for reminding me! I'll look for him in the conference and NCAA tournaments.
 

stocker08 said:
Definitely.



Yes. The Big Ten was the highest ranked conference in NET that year, four top ten teams in the final AP, and had 50% of the top two seeds. MASSIVELY underperformed in the tournament compared to seeding. Bad fortune....or overvalued conference as a whole? Certainly suggests that the Big Ten wasn't nearly as good as advertised.
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Yeah, they had a bad tournament.

Is the Big Ten overvalued this season?
 


Seems like if you're Coyle (Or everyone on this board), you just ask yourself if you truly believe Ben is going to be the guy that elevates this program to where you thought it could get to when you fired Pitino.

You've got 3 years of evidence, will 4 make the difference? It seems to lean heavily one way in my own mind.

Coyle will give him the 4th though I'd think. It'd be easier if Ben wasn't Coyle's guy / hire.

Can you imagine if a new AD came in just after Ben was hired? How might that look after these 3 years...is he/she keeping Ben around?
 
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Gophers7633 said:
Yeah, they had a bad tournament.

Is the Big Ten overvalued this season?
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Four teams with top two seeds and only Michigan made it to the second weekend.....losing in the E8. It wasn't a "bad" tournament. It was a disastrous tournament considering how highly the conference was ranked. Overranked in a big way.
 

skiumah1 said:
Coyle will give him the 4th though I'd think. It'd be easier if Ben wasn't Coyle's guy / hire.
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Which is exactly why Coyle needs to go. Give Ben another year and then let the new guy judge performance and make the call.

Besides, what has Coyle done here anyways?
 

CPTMidnight said:
Which is exactly why Coyle needs to go. Give Ben another year and then let the new guy judge performance and make the call.

Besides, what has Coyle done here anyways?
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I think PJ Fleck (And Football) is ultimately how an AD is judged. How much money is that program bringing in?

It's been a decent program with Fleck. Not as good as we'd once thought, but it's been good.
 

skiumah1 said:
You've got 3 years of evidence, will 4 make the difference? It seems to lean heavily one way in my own mind.
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You can't fire someone on the anticipation that he might fail in the future. Well, a program like ours couldn't anyway unless they were willing to pay a lot more than we have in recent years. You have to wait until a season where he does fail. He didn't fail this season (his team improved significantly) and firing him after two years would have been too soon.

He's done enough to merit another season. Live with it and see what happens next season.
 

How does one find out what NIL is being handed out to players, here and elsewhere? If that info is not available, how does one assess a coaches ability to recruit? I am not a PJ fan, but even I know that if we lost that running back to Oregon due to NIL coin, and our basketball to recruit to Louisville? for the same reason, that isn’t the coaches fault. Now that you apparently can offer money to high school recruits, it’s a whole new ball game. If this becomes a Twins/Yankees/Dodgers dynamic the odds that a coach will be able to out recruit the big guys is, for want of a better word NIL.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
You can't fire someone on the anticipation that he might fail in the future. Well, a program like ours couldn't anyway unless they were willing to pay a lot more than we have in recent years. You have to wait until a season where he does fail. He didn't fail this season (his team improved significantly) and firing him after two years would have been too soon.

He's done enough to merit another season. Live with it and see what happens next season.
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This!
 

Gopheritnow said:
How does one find out what NIL is being handed out to players, here and elsewhere? If that info is not available, how does one assess a coaches ability to recruit? I am not a PJ fan, but even I know that if we lost that running back to Oregon due to NIL coin, and our basketball to recruit to Louisville? for the same reason, that isn’t the coaches fault. Now that you apparently can offer money to high school recruits, it’s a whole new ball game. If this becomes a Twins/Yankees/Dodgers dynamic the odds that a coach will be able to out recruit the big guys is, for want of a better word NIL.
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That's a good question. I'd guess that schools have some obligation to the NCAA to disclose what athletes are actually getting. Schools (or maybe the collectives) do have online sites where they list fees required to get certain services from athletes (autographs, appearances, twitter (X) shout outs, phone calls, etc.). I think Dinkytown has one and some Big East school I looked at (Providence I think) has one.
 

howeda7 said:
Not sure it takes a few weeks. Last year about 4 guys announced they were transferring within 4-5 days of the end of the season. If the entire case for keeping Ben is "we're a top 25 team if everyone come back" and that blows up, why wouldn't you reassess?
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I don't believe anything an AD, coach, GM, etc says publicly. There could be a lot of different reasons why that was said.

I do believe that Coyle has already made a decision. We'll likely know within a week of what that is. What I'm sure of is that you don't keep or fire a coach based on the decisions of players, when players come and go every year.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
I don't know why you think that is true. Here are some 2024 Big Ten players who have come from nonmajors:

2024:

Marcus Domansk (IL)
Justin Harmon (IL)
Lance Jones (Purdue)
Reink Mast (NE)
Brice Williams (NE)
Max Klesmit (WI)
Ben Krikke (IA)
Tyson Walker (MSU)
Jamison Battle (OSU)
Ace Baldwin (PSU)
Nick Kern (PSU)
Zach Hicks (PSU)
Jahmir Young (MD)

Of course, if we went back further, we'd find other good players from nonmajors (Kenny Pickett is a good example; in fact, PSU last season had several among their top players).

You know, if you challenged your old-wives-tale assumptions once in awhile and did some research, you'd be a better poster but I guess some old dogs just can't learn new tricks.
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Heck, there are even D2 players contributing, eg. Joel Scott at Colorado State.
 



stocker08 said:
Four teams with top two seeds and only Michigan made it to the second weekend.....losing in the E8. It wasn't a "bad" tournament. It was a disastrous tournament considering how highly the conference was ranked. Overranked in a big way.
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Interesting you can't answer my question.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
I'd argue they're undervalued. I cam guarantee they'll have more than one team in the 2nd weekend.
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Interesting. So if Purdue doesn't make it to the 2ns weekend are they overrated? Were they overrated last year?

I'm trying to figure out how the same set of data can be overrated one year, and underrated in another.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
up to know, Johnson has used the portal to bring in mid-major players. that isn't good enough anymore. they have to be aiming for major-conference level players.
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Marcus Domask - Southern Illinois transfer

Dalton Knecht - Northern Colorado transfer

There's plenty of good mid major talent out there.
 


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