Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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kg21 said:
We are ranked dead last with Northwestern for our 2024 recruiting class.

And it's not close.

Make the move now.
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The class is 2 players and one of them is a 4* top 100 Point guard. If Grove turns out to be a bust then the decision to give him a scholarship can certainly be questioned but we won't know that until he gets on campus and has a chance to show what he can do.

And although some of you are going to keep calling for it, seems highly unlikely you will get your wish of a new coach granted until around this time next year at the earliest. Unless things go sideways roster wise this off season and they elect to make a move.
 

MNVCGUY said:
And it really doesn't matter anyway.....the two sides will yell at each other and tell each other they are wrong as they try and compare two things that really can't be compared in any fool proof way because there are too many variables involved. They won't ever see eye to eye but that won't stop them from having the same arguments over and over and over and over again.

To your last line, if that happens, Johnson will get fired and those desperate for a coaching change will get their wish. On the flip side, if the team stays together and does well next year the majority of the board will come together and be happy about the progress. One way or another I think this is all resolved at the end of next season.

The performance this year was good enough to earn year 4, it won't be good enough to earn year 5. The team will have to take another step next year or Johnson will be fired and we will get to start over again.
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Imo it all hinges on how this season ends. Lay an egg in the Big tourney and a few starters leave and we’re looking at a likely disaster again next year. Beat Michigan State and keep most of not all starters and there’s at least some hope for next year.
 


CentralGopher said:
Imo it all hinges on how this season ends. Lay an egg in the Big tourney and a few starters leave and we’re looking at a likely disaster again next year. Beat Michigan State and keep most of not all starters and there’s at least some hope for next year.
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I really don't know how much the MSU game will factor into it. I think it really all hinges on the players and what they do. As long as the bulk of the roster returns next year I don't see a coaching change happening this off season.

If a bunch of players leave and it looks like 24-25 is going to be a full rebuild again....I could definitely see Coyle making a move in that situation. Team did enough this year to justify another year with this group but hasn't done enough to justify another year with an entirely new roster.
 



MNVCGUY said:
And it really doesn't matter anyway.....the two sides will yell at each other and tell each other they are wrong as they try and compare two things that really can't be compared in any fool proof way because there are too many variables involved. They won't ever see eye to eye but that won't stop them from having the same arguments over and over and over and over again.

To your last line, if that happens, Johnson will get fired and those desperate for a coaching change will get their wish. On the flip side, if the team stays together and does well next year the majority of the board will come together and be happy about the progress. One way or another I think this is all resolved at the end of next season.

The performance this year was good enough to earn year 4, it won't be good enough to earn year 5. The team will have to take another step next year or Johnson will be fired and we will get to start over again.
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This.
 


MNVCGUY said:
I really don't know how much the MSU game will factor into it. I think it really all hinges on the players and what they do. As long as the bulk of the roster returns next year I don't see a coaching change happening this off season.

If a bunch of players leave and it looks like 24-25 is going to be a full rebuild again....I could definitely see Coyle making a move in that situation. Team did enough this year to justify another year with this group but hasn't done enough to justify another year with an entirely new roster.
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Ending on a sour not with a loss to Michigan State would likely contribute to their decision and fan sentiment though.
 



MNVCGUY said:
The class is 2 players and one of them is a 4* top 100 Point guard. If Grove turns out to be a bust then the decision to give him a scholarship can certainly be questioned but we won't know that until he gets on campus and has a chance to show what he can do.

And although some of you are going to keep calling for it, seems highly unlikely you will get your wish of a new coach granted until around this time next year at the earliest. Unless things go sideways roster wise this off season and they elect to make a move.
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I honestly don't look or worry too much about HS recruiting. Sure you need some and top end guys are never a bad thing, but with the portal it's so much less critical than it used to be. I personally think Grove is a bad use of a scholarship but if he is then he'll likely be like a Thompson or Thiam and be gone in a year or 2. At this point I'd honestly only recruit studs like Asuma or Christie and fill the rest out in the portal. Kids almost never stay for 4 years in any spot so it's not a giant issue.

That said, I also think it makes moving on to a new coach WAY easier.
 

leib0039 said:
I honestly don't look or worry too much about HS recruiting. Sure you need some and top end guys are never a bad thing, but with the portal it's so much less critical than it used to be. I personally think Grove is a bad use of a scholarship but if he is then he'll likely be like a Thompson or Thiam and be gone in a year or 2. At this point I'd honestly only recruit studs like Asuma or Christie and fill the rest out in the portal. Kids almost never stay for 4 years in any spot so it's not a giant issue.

That said, I also think it makes moving on to a new coach WAY easier.
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Yeah, this has been my thoughts too. Seeing what teams like Utah State, South Florida, McNeese State and Texas Tech have done in year 1 under new coaches, are just more examples of how portal recruiting is important and you can be highly successful in year 1 with a lot of new pieces. It doesn't need or have to take 4/5 years to put together a competitive team.
 

howeda7 said:
Doesn't matter. Minnesota, much less Wisconsin and Iowa are not leaving the B1G football conference for some regional basketball-focused conference with teams like Drake and Creighton that don't even play football. It's beyond far fetched, it's absurd.
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Drake does have football. His idea is beyond asinine (the only way the U is ever leaving the Big Ten is if they are kicked out), but Drake does in fact have a football team.
bga1 said:
The Big Ten television contract nets about 60 million per school- more than any other conference.
They aren't leaving that.
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That was under the old contract. Under the new contract, it's projected to be much more than that - as much as $80-100 million - depending how the 4 new west coast members change the equation.
 

with all due respect, I think the line for comparison is pre-portal/NIL era with post-portal/NIL era.
by portal I mean the 'free transfer, no waivers needed' version we currently have, and that happened in 2021. the 1-time free transfer rule went into effect on April 28, 2021 and NIL on July 1, 2021.

the free portal and NIL have completely changed how teams manage rosters.

to keep this short and simple -
--Johnson has to go out in the portal and upgrade the talent level on this roster. they need at least 1 new starter (as in better than the existing roster) and 1 top-8 level rotational player. (this is assuming the Gophers lose 1 or 2 players from the existing roster).

Do they have the NIL to pull that off? I don't know. Is Johnson a good enough recruiter to pull that off? I don't know. up to know, Johnson has used the portal to bring in mid-major players. that isn't good enough anymore. they have to be aiming for major-conference level players.

IMHO, if the Gophers do not make the NCAA tournament next season, Johnson is gone. Johnson cannot worry about building for the future. it's "Win Now - or you have no Future."
 




short ornery norwegian said:
IMHO, if the Gophers do not make the NCAA tournament next season, Johnson is gone. Johnson cannot worry about building for the future. it's "Win Now - or you have no Future."
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Yeah....I think that this next season is make or break. Not even necessarily "make".....as we'll all want to see some sustained success before Johnson is anointed.....but definitely "break" if we don't make the tournament. The players on this team are all his guys (with the exception of Ihnen)....so there's no reasonable excuse if several key pieces transfer out. If he can't keep a roster that's taken a few years to come together from leaving after hitting a high mark of 9-11 in the Big Ten.....then it's likely over.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Do they have the NIL to pull that off? I don't know. Is Johnson a good enough recruiter to pull that off? I don't know. up to know, Johnson has used the portal to bring in mid-major players. that isn't good enough anymore. they have to be aiming for major-conference level players.
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I don't know why you think that is true. Here are some 2024 Big Ten players who have come from nonmajors:

2024:

Marcus Domansk (IL)
Justin Harmon (IL)
Lance Jones (Purdue)
Reink Mast (NE)
Brice Williams (NE)
Max Klesmit (WI)
Ben Krikke (IA)
Tyson Walker (MSU)
Jamison Battle (OSU)
Ace Baldwin (PSU)
Nick Kern (PSU)
Zach Hicks (PSU)
Jahmir Young (MD)

Of course, if we went back further, we'd find other good players from nonmajors (Kenny Pickett is a good example; in fact, PSU last season had several among their top players).

You know, if you challenged your old-wives-tale assumptions once in awhile and did some research, you'd be a better poster but I guess some old dogs just can't learn new tricks.
 

kg21 said:
We are ranked dead last with Northwestern for our 2024 recruiting class.

And it's not close.

Make the move now.
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I think that’s flawed class rankings that hinge on quantity. Not suggesting it’s an amazing class, though.
 

CentralGopher said:
Ending on a sour not with a loss to Michigan State would likely contribute to their decision and fan sentiment though.
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A run in the BTT might definitely help some from the fan sentiment standpoint but I think the players that are going to go will go regardless of what happens this week. All we can really do as fans is hope that they can see the potential in staying together and adding some pieces to the mix.
 

stocker08 said:
Yeah....I think that this next season is make or break. Not even necessarily "make".....as we'll all want to see some sustained success before Johnson is anointed.....but definitely "break" if we don't make the tournament. The players on this team are all his guys (with the exception of Ihnen)....so there's no reasonable excuse if several key pieces transfer out. If he can't keep a roster that's taken a few years to come together from leaving after hitting a high mark of 9-11 in the Big Ten.....then it's likely over.
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Making the NCAA tournament next year is a very reasonable expectation and if Johnson is not able to keep this roster together he might not get fired right away but he also shouldn't be given a grace period for a rebuild the way a new coach should.

But it is all hypothetical at this point until we see what is going to happen roster wise. If guys like Garcia and Christie opt for the NBA that is one thing, and you can live with that. If guys are jumping ship to go to other colleges that is a problem.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Making the NCAA tournament next year is a very reasonable expectation and if Johnson is not able to keep this roster together he might not get fired right away but he also shouldn't be given a grace period for a rebuild the way a new coach should.

But it is all hypothetical at this point until we see what is going to happen roster wise. If guys like Garcia and Christie opt for the NBA that is one thing, and you can live with that. If guys are jumping ship to go to other colleges that is a problem.
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If 2 or more of Hawkins, Garcia, Christie or Payne leave, Coyle should really have the dump button ready.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I don't know why you think that is true. Here are some 2024 Big Ten players who have come from nonmajors:

2024:

Marcus Domansk (IL)
Justin Harmon (IL)
Lance Jones (Purdue)
Reink Mast (NE)
Brice Williams (NE)
Max Klesmit (WI)
Ben Krikke (IA)
Tyson Walker (MSU)
Jamison Battle (OSU)
Ace Baldwin (PSU)
Nick Kern (PSU)
Zach Hicks (PSU)
Jahmir Young (MD)

Of course, if we went back further, we'd find other good players from nonmajors (Kenny Pickett is a good example; in fact, PSU last season had several among their top players).

You know, if you challenged your old-wives-tale assumptions once in awhile and did some research, you'd be a better poster but I guess some old dogs just can't learn new tricks.
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So what your saying is Ben can't coach the ones he gets well enough to be competitive on a nightly basis
 

Gophers7633 said:
Yeah, this has been my thoughts too. Seeing what teams like Utah State, South Florida, McNeese State and Texas Tech have done in year 1 under new coaches, are just more examples of how portal recruiting is important and you can be highly successful in year 1 with a lot of new pieces. It doesn't need or have to take 4/5 years to put together a competitive team.
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The same cant be done at MN. Because.
 

howeda7 said:
If 2 or more of Hawkins, Garcia, Christie or Payne leave, Coyle should really have the dump button ready.
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If Christie and Garcia go pro you give Johnson a chance to reload through the portal with the expectation that the team will still get better next year even without those guys.

If 2 or more of those guys leave for other schools I think a case could certainly be made for firing Johnson right away but I don't see it happening. My guess is his seat would go from warm to scalding but he would still get a chance to try and save it.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If Christie and Garcia go pro you give Johnson a chance to reload through the portal with the expectation that the team will still get better next year even without those guys.

If 2 or more of those guys leave for other schools I think a case could certainly be made for firing Johnson right away but I don't see it happening. My guess is his seat would go from warm to scalding but he would still get a chance to try and save it.
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Hes already proven what can be done (reload and make ncaa in yr 1) he can't do in 3
 

MNVCGUY said:
If Christie and Garcia go pro you give Johnson a chance to reload through the portal with the expectation that the team will still get better next year even without those guys.

If 2 or more of those guys leave for other schools I think a case could certainly be made for firing Johnson right away but I don't see it happening. My guess is his seat would go from warm to scalding but he would still get a chance to try and save it.
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I don't think it matters that much why they leave. Sure it sounds better if they went pro, but that's not going to be a key factor in anyone's decision.

If you lose two key pieces you're counting on off a marginal team to begin with, the odds that you're to get better players out of the portal is very, very slim. Even last year, he basically went 2/5 in the portal. Hawkins can play. Mitchell is OK. Wilson and Keneys are complete non-entities and we gave the 5th scholarship to a walk on.
 

howeda7 said:
I don't think it matters that much why they leave. Sure it sounds better if they went pro, but that's not going to be a key factor in anyone's decision.

If you lose two key pieces you're counting on off a marginal team to begin with, the odds that you're to get better players out of the portal is very, very slim. Even last year, he basically went 2/5 in the portal. Hawkins can play. Mitchell is OK. Wilson and Keneys are complete non-entities and we gave the 5th scholarship to a walk on.
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I disagree on the why they leave part. When a player leaves early to go pro that can be seen as a good thing for the program in some ways, especially if they are successful at the next level. Also valuable to recruits to see guys having success and going pro from your school. if Johnson is bringing in NBA level talent that is a good thing.

I do agree that if we were to lose Garcia and Christie to the pro ranks the odds of us being better then next year would be slim but I think you would 100% have to give Johnson a chance to try and replace them in the portal.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Obviously. Doesn't change the fact this team had a much more advantageous schedule than Pitino's last team did.
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In the non-conference, sure. But as I've already shown.....the Big Ten was way overvalued and the NET rankings were over-inflated. Nine teams made the tournament including two #1 seeds and two #2 seeds (FOUR of the top EIGHT teams in the tournament)......and only one made the second weekend.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Making the NCAA tournament next year is a very reasonable expectation and if Johnson is not able to keep this roster together he might not get fired right away but he also shouldn't be given a grace period for a rebuild the way a new coach should.

But it is all hypothetical at this point until we see what is going to happen roster wise. If guys like Garcia and Christie opt for the NBA that is one thing, and you can live with that. If guys are jumping ship to go to other colleges that is a problem.
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Obviously it's not cut and dry. There's are tons of different things that could happen in the off-season. But as a general baseline....expectations should be that this is an NCAA team next year. Johnson has been given a lot of excuse cards to play.....and I think he's run out at this point.
 

stocker08 said:
Obviously it's not cut and dry. There's are tons of different things that could happen in the off-season. But as a general baseline....expectations should be that this is an NCAA team next year. Johnson has been given a lot of excuse cards to play.....and I think he's run out at this point.
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Yep....there are scenarios that could play out where the team could fall short of the tournament next year and Johnson's job would be safe. But those scenarios are much more narrow than they were in the first few seasons and if the team takes a big step backwards next year it would be extremely hard to justify not making a coaching change.
 

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