Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
With all of the data out there, and countless examples of coaches brought up in other threads, it's hard to believe anyone can still have this opinion.

Yes - all of the other P6 coaches hired at the same time as Ben or after, had the same challenges and roster turnover he had. They either lost the majority of their roster to the transfer portal and brought in better players form the portal, or were able to recruit good players on the roster to stay and supplement them with better players from the portal.

Ben did neither in year 1. That's 100% on him and no one else.
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I'll defer to your vast knowledge and your absolute determination to stay with the "he sucks and should be fired" approach. It was a mistake to reply to your post. It reminds me of certain saying about certain people, "often wrong, but never in doubt."
 

Formerswish said:
I'll defer to your vast knowledge and your absolute determination to stay with the "he sucks and should be fired" approach. It was a mistake to reply to your post. It reminds me of certain saying about certain people, "often wrong, but never in doubt."
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Some dogs are just gonna bark. There is no shock collar on the market that will deter them from their mission to make sure everyone within a 5 mile radius knows they are there. :)
 

Big Dawg said:
I can't stand people who apologize for the everlasting crappy product MN sports put out each and every year. I enjoy the wins and want more. I will praise Ben and any/all MN sports teams that do well and are trying. On the other hand, I will point out their short comings trying to use facts to do so.
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Thank goodness we have you to point out shortcomings! Nobody else sees them! What a great basketball mind.
 





GopherWeatherGuy said:
I the people who look foolish are the ones who gloat over every victory over bad teams and think a 8-34 B1G record is something worth defending, and some sort of sign of progress for the program.
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If you can't see a difference in this team vs the ones from the past 2 years then I feel sorry for you. There are clear and obvious signs of progress with this team. No guarantee yet that it will be enough to save Johnson's job but it probably is enough to get him at least one more year.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If you can't see a difference in this team vs the ones from the past 2 years then I feel sorry for you. There are clear and obvious signs of progress with this team. No guarantee yet that it will be enough to save Johnson's job but it probably is enough to get him at least one more year.
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I've said several times this team is better than last years. What proof is there yet that this team is better than year 1's team as of today?

You and the others who continue to argue the same things over and over with me are only helping to make my point. The basketball program has been such a disaster the last two years that anything slightly better looks like progress. That's exactly why Ben is still a disaster.

That still doesn't mean it's good basketball or that actual progress is being made compared to the last several coaches who have coached here and were significantly better than Ben has been so far.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If you can't see a difference in this team vs the ones from the past 2 years then I feel sorry for you. There are clear and obvious signs of progress with this team. No guarantee yet that it will be enough to save Johnson's job but it probably is enough to get him at least one more year.
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Yet you still hedge each and every post about their success.

It's obvious your own confidence isn't there.
 



MNVCGUY said:
If you can't see a difference in this team vs the ones from the past 2 years then I feel sorry for you. There are clear and obvious signs of progress with this team. No guarantee yet that it will be enough to save Johnson's job but it probably is enough to get him at least one more year.
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We do appear to be better. But should we be happy with being better than absolutely terrible? We still aren't performing like a top 75 team as of yet, for the totality of the season. We've got a bunch of winnable games, we need to do just that.
 

Gophers7633 said:
We do appear to be better. But should we be happy with being better than absolutely terrible? We still aren't performing like a top 75 team as of yet, for the totality of the season. We've got a bunch of winnable games, we need to do just that.
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The point is that Johnson had a few months to throw together his first roster due to the mass exodus prior. And last year......the Gophers played more freshman minutes than nearly every other D1 program. You'd expect that the team would improve.....and they are. Johnson's first HS recruiting class are only sophomores right now.
 

stocker08 said:
The point is that Johnson had a few months to throw together his first roster due to the mass exodus prior. And last year......the Gophers played more freshman minutes than nearly every other D1 program. You'd expect that the team would improve.....and they are. Johnson's first HS recruiting class are only sophomores right now.
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Yes, I understand all of this. I also understand the quality of this team at the moment(half way through the season) is performing like the team that got Pitino fired. I personally, would like to be above that bar. That isn't asking all that much.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Yes, I understand all of this. I also understand the quality of this team at the moment(half way through the season) is performing like the team that got Pitino fired. I personally, would like to be above that bar. That isn't asking all that much.
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Right. And Pitino was in his....what.....eighth year? Johnson is in his third year....and his first HS class are only sophomores.
 



Gophers7633 said:
Yes, I understand all of this. I also understand the quality of this team at the moment(half way through the season) is performing like the team that got Pitino fired. I personally, would like to be above that bar. That isn't asking all that much.
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I think we all understand that there's a lot left to prove for CBJ, but this current blueprint for success is different than anything we've seen in a while. It's not just our best player getting hot... there's real teamwork going on.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
I've said several times this team is better than last years. What proof is there yet that this team is better than year 1's team as of today?

You and the others who continue to argue the same things over and over with me are only helping to make my point. The basketball program has been such a disaster the last two years that anything slightly better looks like progress. That's exactly why Ben is still a disaster.

That still doesn't mean it's good basketball or that actual progress is being made compared to the last several coaches who have coached here and were significantly better than Ben has been so far.
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This team woul destroy the year one team head to head because that team had zero inside presence of any kind. The only chance they would have would be if Willis and Battle were on fire and made a ton of 3s.
 


MNVCGUY said:
This team woul destroy the year one team head to head because that team had zero inside presence of any kind. The only chance they would have would be if Willis and Battle were on fire and made a ton of 3s.
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Yet that team still had better wins through the 1st 1/3 of the season than this one does.
 


stocker08 said:
You needed to be told that building a team from the ground up takes more than a year or two? That's a you problem.
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We literally have multiple threads proving it DOESN'T necessarily take a year or two. Here's a summary:

The Comparable 4 enters season 3 with Shrewsberry now in South Bend (we'll still keep tabs on him)

I never updated this after the NCAA Tournament, but have done so here. Even though Micah Shrewsberry has moved on to Notre Dame, we’ll continue to track him. Updated Through 2023 NCAA Tournament These 3rd-year coaches are listed in order of overall winning percentage since taking over their...
gopherhole.com gopherhole.com
 

Gophers7633 said:
If we were Rutgers levels of bad(when Pikiell took over), then yeah. We were 46th, 27th and 62nd in KenPom the 3 years before the coaching change.
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What was left over for Johnson was Rutgers level of bad. He had to scrape together a team of randoms for his first year.

USAF said:
We literally have multiple threads proving it DOESN'T necessarily take a year or two. Here's a summary:

The Comparable 4 enters season 3 with Shrewsberry now in South Bend (we'll still keep tabs on him)

I never updated this after the NCAA Tournament, but have done so here. Even though Micah Shrewsberry has moved on to Notre Dame, we’ll continue to track him. Updated Through 2023 NCAA Tournament These 3rd-year coaches are listed in order of overall winning percentage since taking over their...
gopherhole.com gopherhole.com
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Pointing to some exceptions doesn't help your case.
 

USAF said:
We literally have multiple threads proving it DOESN'T necessarily take a year or two. Here's a summary:

The Comparable 4 enters season 3 with Shrewsberry now in South Bend (we'll still keep tabs on him)

I never updated this after the NCAA Tournament, but have done so here. Even though Micah Shrewsberry has moved on to Notre Dame, we’ll continue to track him. Updated Through 2023 NCAA Tournament These 3rd-year coaches are listed in order of overall winning percentage since taking over their...
gopherhole.com gopherhole.com
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I didn't want to bring this up because I was told programs like Iowa State, Kansas State, Wyoming, Mississippi State, Penn State etc...are better programs than we are.
 



USAF said:
LOL.

Gonna go out on a limb and guess you don't see the irony here.
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How's Shrewsberry doing in his first year at ND? I'll let you look that up and let me know.

Gophers7633 said:
Everyone of significance was eligible to return off of Pitino's last team.
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Carr was easily our best player (on a six win BT team).....and he wasn't coming back regardless.
 


stocker08 said:
How's Shrewsberry doing in his first year at ND? I'll let you look that up and let me know.



Carr was easily our best player (on a six win BT team).....and he wasn't coming back regardless.
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How'd he do in his 2nd year at PSU?
 



stocker08 said:
I thought that coaches are supposed to be good in their first year though. So why is he struggling so much right now at Notre Dame?
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There are certainly plenty of examples of that. Shrewsbury was one of the numerous examples of being successful in year 2 at PSU. Obviously not every coach is successful in year 1 at a program. But plenty of examples exist.
 

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