Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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jblass said:
I agree that it will come down to are ability to win close games. A big concern is our ability to make crucial free throws down the stretch. According to TeamRankings.com we are shooting 69.7% from the charity line for the season but that has dropped to 56.5% over the last three games. For the life of me I can't figure out why shooting free throws seems to be such a big issue for us. Its frustrating to watch and will bite us in the end of those close games.
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At this level- I would suggest that free throw shooting comes from confidence- my guess is that Payne shoots 70%+ in practice. Adding to the pressure is when your team is used to losing and feels the pressure of that burden. I think that winning a game like this will help push this team further in the belief they can win and will win- which will lead to better shooting at the line. You get better when you think about expecting to do well as opposed to fearing losing.
 




MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
I think you already look foolish and don't seem to understand the definition of the word "better."
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I the people who look foolish are the ones who gloat over every victory over bad teams and think a 8-34 B1G record is something worth defending, and some sort of sign of progress for the program.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
I the people who look foolish are the ones who gloat over every victory over bad teams and think a 8-33 B1G record is something worth defending, and some sort of sign of progress for the program.
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Some of us understand what "better" means. We also understand circumstances the first year may have been out of CBJ's control and get excited about what we're seeing with this team. You made up your mind on this season in December, when you didn't even know who the players were going to be, and now you "enjoy the wins" while telling everyone a road win against a team that whooped us last year doesn't mean progress? 🤡🤡🤡🤡
 

People get dug in defending their long held positions. I’ve been critical of this regime. If you scan this thread (I think), you may find me answering the question of “what would make him not a disaster?” with being in the top 100 in both offense and defense efficiency.

Well, we’re there, at least for now. So, I’m willing to (grudgingly) give this regime its due respect at this point in time. There’s still a lot of season, so let’s see if they’re able to maintain it.

It’s also true that they are a far way from being good. Even the sunshine blowers acknowledge this, and there’s still a lot to be critical about (scheduling being #1).

The mocking of posters who disagree is childish (though very much a staple of GH).
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
Some of us understand what "better" means. We also understand circumstances the first year may have been out of CBJ's control and get excited about what we're seeing with this team. You made up your mind on this season in December, when you didn't even know who the players were going to be, and now you "enjoy the wins" while telling everyone a road win against a team that whooped us last year doesn't mean progress? 🤡🤡🤡🤡
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Ben's first year situation was the same as every other first year head coach who was hired at the same time or after.

Speaking of Ben's first year, he still beat a Sweet 16 Michigan team on the road by 10 that year. This year he escaped a weakling Wednesday Michigan team on the road by 2, despite poor defense down the stretch and Michigan missing a wide open 3 with 11 seconds left. And you're acting like they just beat Purdue on the road.

Maybe we can start talking about progress after he wins several games above the 6 B1G wins Pitino was fired for in his last season. If he gets ever there.

Until then, Ben is still a disaster by every metric.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ben's first year situation was the same as every other first year head coach who was hired at the same time or after.

Speaking of Ben's first year, he still beat a Sweet 16 Michigan team on the road by 10 that year. This year he escaped a weakling Wednesday Michigan team on the road by 2, despite poor defense down the stretch and Michigan missing a wide open 3 with 11 seconds left. And you're acting like they just beat Purdue on the road.

Maybe we can start talking about progress after he wins several games above the 6 B1G wins Pitino was fired for in his last season. If he gets ever there.

Until then, Ben is still a disaster by every metric.
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Your first post was that progress isn't possible and now you're saying we have to wait and see if it is possible? Like all weather guys, I can't take you seriously.
 









Reusse with an article about Ben J in todays Strib. And as a bonus a legitimate and pertinent shot at PJ in the first paragraph. 👍🏻👍🏻 Is Johnson the greatest basketball coach in U history, or the worst? Likely somewhere in between. Yes it would be wonderful to have Wooden or the elder Pitino here, but only as long as they bring their bagmen and hookers along!
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ben's first year situation was the same as every other first year head coach who was hired at the same time or after.

Speaking of Ben's first year, he still beat a Sweet 16 Michigan team on the road by 10 that year. This year he escaped a weakling Wednesday Michigan team on the road by 2, despite poor defense down the stretch and Michigan missing a wide open 3 with 11 seconds left. And you're acting like they just beat Purdue on the road.

Maybe we can start talking about progress after he wins several games above the 6 B1G wins Pitino was fired for in his last season. If he gets ever there.

Until then, Ben is still a disaster by every metric.
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Cannot disagree with any of this^. "Getting better?" Yes, in some areas. Roster construction? Better. Scheduling? Nope. But it depends on what he is trying to accomplish. That non conf schedule WILL NOT get you a post season invite UNLESS he can somehow go 12-8 or better in conf plus win a few BIG tourney games. Maybe his strategy was to win the cupcakes thus giving the team some confidence. Scheduling to save his job maybe. I'm middle of the road here. Yes, progress but you are still a disaster until you aren't. I think he will go 500 or less in conference which will ensure at least one more season. I want Coyle to #1-Not give an extension/raise and #2-let Ben know that this progress season is now the lowest bar. Any regression means you are gone. I celebrate all wins. Excited for Sunday.
 


Gopheritnow said:
Reusse with an article about Ben J in todays Strib. And as a bonus a legitimate and pertinent shot at PJ in the first paragraph. 👍🏻👍🏻 Is Johnson the greatest basketball coach in U history, or the worst? Likely somewhere in between. Yes it would be wonderful to have Wooden or the elder Pitino here, but only as long as they bring their bagmen and hookers along!
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Currently the worst. But trending up. FACTS
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
I can't stand someone who will "enjoy the wins" of a coach and team they actively rallied against for the last 9 months.
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I can't stand people who apologize for the everlasting crappy product MN sports put out each and every year. I enjoy the wins and want more. I will praise Ben and any/all MN sports teams that do well and are trying. On the other hand, I will point out their short comings trying to use facts to do so.
 

Big Dawg said:
I can't stand people who apologize for the everlasting crappy product MN sports put out each and every year. I enjoy the wins and want more. I will praise Ben and any/all MN sports teams that do well and are trying. On the other hand, I will point out their short comings trying to use facts to do so.
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Nobody is apologizing. Save your buzzwords for someone that cares. Was it a fact last December that this year's team would be worse?
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
It was a fact in December 8, 2022 that the Ben Johnson hire is a disaster. On January 6, 2024, that is still a fact.
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While I tend to be in your camp, GWG, it really isn't so black and white. I imagine a dial with "disaster" on the left and "great team" on the right with many tick marks in between. The pointer for me has moved off of disaster one click to the right - call it "below average". There's still a lpt of season to move that dial, however, but as of this moment, I can't call it a disaster anymore.
 

formerlybis said:
While I tend to be in your camp, GWG, it really isn't so black and white. I imagine a dial with "disaster" on the left and "great team" on the right with many tick marks in between. The pointer for me has moved off of disaster one click to the right - call it "below average". There's still a lpt of season to move that dial, however, but as of this moment, I can't call it a disaster anymore.
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Right now it is that black and white. By the end of the season, maybe it won't be.

You don't erase 2 disastrous years after going 11-3 against one of the weakest P6 schedules in the country to date. The wins so far are similar to the wins Ben had the last two years, and there are still the bad losses to San Francisco and Missouri.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It was a fact in December 8, 2022 that the Ben Johnson hire is a disaster. On January 6, 2024, that is still a fact.
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You wrote post a while back saying "Ben's first year situation was the same as every other first year head coach who was hired at the same time or after." If you look at what happened with the players that left and what Johnson had to work with his first year, and you compare it with what other first year head coaches experienced, that statement is a stretch.

And if that makes me a "Johnson apologist", so be it. I've been a Gopher fan and coached b-ball for years, and it's hard as hell to watch what's happened the past couple years. If Johnson's team finishes towards the bottom of the conference this year again, I think he'll be gone. But I don't think that will happen. And I think the guy can coach, and I think he can recruit. He still deserves a chance to turn things around, and part of that is that he started with very little talent and no depth. No coach around can overcome that. His fault? Not really.

For some people this process has been harder than for others. A little patience is sometimes necessary and helpful to avoid taking the past 2 years of losing so personally. But I do see progress, with a team that has some shooting, a talented front line, and a lot of underclassmen that we hope will be around for a while. We also have a very good point guard coming next year, and good guard play is a key to winning Big Ten games, as evidenced in the Michigan game.

There's no way to tell with the portal and the massive team-switching what's going to happen year to year, but I do appreciate what's being "built." And you won't need permission to disagree with this, but I think we'll eventually see that the "Ben Johnson is a disaster" opinion will be losing some steam.
 

Formerswish said:
You wrote post a while back saying "Ben's first year situation was the same as every other first year head coach who was hired at the same time or after." If you look at what happened with the players that left and what Johnson had to work with his first year, and you compare it with what other first year head coaches experienced, that statement is a stretch.
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With all of the data out there, and countless examples of coaches brought up in other threads, it's hard to believe anyone can still have this opinion.

Yes - all of the other P6 coaches hired at the same time as Ben or after, had the same challenges and roster turnover he had. They either lost the majority of their roster to the transfer portal and brought in better players form the portal, or were able to recruit good players on the roster to stay and supplement them with better players from the portal.

Ben did neither in year 1. That's 100% on him and no one else.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Right now it is that black and white. By the end of the season, maybe it won't be.

You don't erase 2 disastrous years after going 11-3 against one of the weakest P6 schedules in the country to date. The wins so far are similar to the wins Ben had the last two years, and there are still the bad losses to San Francisco and Missouri.
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I believe you have to go beneath the wins and losses.

I've said many times that Rutgers lost a lot of games in Pikiell's first couple of years - probably about the same as Johnson. But RU also was showing major improvement in their metrics on the defensive end (which has remained consistent to this day). There wasn't anything like that for Johnson, so, yes, he deserved the disasterous descriptor.

And I get your point - and agree - about the stats produced against a weak schedule. Still, the stats are better on a strength-adjusted basis. IMO, this year is not disastrous at this point - which is maybe where we differ. You want to see it after they play teams with a pulse, and I think that's a defensible position. It still can go north or south.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ben's first year situation was the same as every other first year head coach who was hired at the same time or after.

Speaking of Ben's first year, he still beat a Sweet 16 Michigan team on the road by 10 that year. This year he escaped a weakling Wednesday Michigan team on the road by 2, despite poor defense down the stretch and Michigan missing a wide open 3 with 11 seconds left. And you're acting like they just beat Purdue on the road.

Maybe we can start talking about progress after he wins several games above the 6 B1G wins Pitino was fired for in his last season. If he gets ever there.

Until then, Ben is still a disaster by every metric.
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So you are doubling down in being right about Johnson, we all understand that. I am willing to give him this year before decreeing the naysayers are correct and he is a disaster. It is true that the schedule has been soft, and Michigan is a mediocre team. Still winning on the road in the Big Ten is not easy, so the team is showing progress and has a deeper bench and better guard play. I have always said that we need to let the year play out before starting over and blowing up the roster again, setting us back another 2-3 years.
 
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Bobek said:
So you are doubling down in being right about Johnson, we all understand that. I am willing to give him this year before decreeing the naysayers are correct and he is a disaster. It is true that the schedule has been soft, and Michigan is a mediocre team. Still winning on the road in the Big Ten is not easy, so the team is showing progress and has a deeper bench and better guard play. I have always said that we need to let the year play out before starting over and blowing up the roster again, setting us back another 2-3 years.
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I agree with you that we do need to let the year play out, which has been my point the last two days in this thread. They had similar road victories the last two seasons too, they were still disasters.

If you hire the right coach, it won't set the program back another 2-3 years from where it is today. A new coach could easily have a better team next year than the one we've seen for the last 3. The bar to clear is still currently laying on the ground.
 


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