Beau Allen

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Beau Allen is just as important from a "Closing the borders" standpoint as he is as a future player. I think he'll be a fine DT for us down the road but I moreover, I expect Brewster to land 3 & 4 star Minnesota players like Beau Allen. Landing Allen, like Hageman last year sets the tone for future recruits that Wisconsin's days of raiding us are over. Snatching a kid who's parents are Badger fans was born in Madison will be sweeeet.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Beau Allen is just as important from a "Closing the borders" standpoint as he is as a future player. I think he'll be a fine DT for us down the road but I moreover, I expect Brewster to land 3 & 4 star Minnesota players like Beau Allen. Landing Allen, like Hageman last year sets the tone for future recruits that Wisconsin's days of raiding us are over. Snatching a kid who's parents are Badger fans was born in Madison will be sweeeet.
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+1.

Holding onto the present top kids in the state sends a positive message to the future top kids in the state.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Beau Allen is just as important from a "Closing the borders" standpoint as he is as a future player. I think he'll be a fine DT for us down the road but I moreover, I expect Brewster to land 3 & 4 star Minnesota players like Beau Allen. Landing Allen, like Hageman last year sets the tone for future recruits that Wisconsin's days of raiding us are over. Snatching a kid who's parents are Badger fans was born in Madison will be sweeeet.
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I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
 

I am a Gopher fan and an adamant Bucky hater, but I can't really see arguing that there youth in their two deeps is merely a product of bad Srs. For example, John Clay is a Soph., Nick Toon is a Soph., Montee Ball is a Fresh., and these guys beat out some fairly talented upperclassmen. Clay and Ball beat out Zack Brown. Brown ran for 500 yards in his freshmen season and would certainly start for the Gophers (and some other Big 10 teams). He was beat out by Clay and Ball. Nick Toon became the #1 target as a soph over upperclassmen Jefferson and Gilraeth. I guess my point is that some of these young players have just emerged and supplanted fairly decent upperclassmen in Madison. I hope Bucky fails, I really do, but they do have some young, talented players.

**Note, I still think the Badger program would be better off without Bielema. He single handidly took his team out of the games with Ohio St. and Iowa, but you do have to tip your cap to him for developing some decent young talent.
 

I have two links for you.

First, Chris Borland's two-star profile: http://wisconsin.scout.com/a.z?s=193&p=8&c=1&nid=3812708

Next, a bit of Chris Borland news: http://www.dailycardinal.com/sports/borland-clay-take-home-all-big-ten-honors-1.944962

You may also notice in that 2nd article that another underclassmen was player of the year in the Big 10.

Schnoodler said:
i know you don't want to get this. As soon as your young two deeps get exposed and your on field overall talent is less than your competitions and you have to fight for every win you get, you will soon understand the problems of sub par recruiting. Think Mason. You will be living those ten years we had. good enough to think you've got a shot, but not deep enough for it to ever happen.

I'll give you a clue, if you've got the youngest two deeps in the conference, it probably has more to do with the failures of the classes ahead of them. And thus hope gets plugged in. When they expose themselves another layer of underclassmen get's plugged in. We've lived through this. We know.

Good teams have juniors Seniors, and some sophmores dominating their two deeps. Almost always when younger players dominate it's because of the lack of the upper classmen talent, not the excess of the under classmen talent. But use whatever delusion you need to get you through.
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GVBadger said:
I am terrified. The Badgers are the 5th youngest team in the NCAA in terms of underclassmen on the two deep. That talent drain is really hurting.

I know you don't get this, but I will say it one more time. Once the kid steps on campus, what some internet site ranked the player is meaningless.

Can the kid play? Does he fit in the system? Will he improve? How hard is he going to work? Will he stay eligible? Will he get the proper coaching? Will he get hurt?

Those are the things that matter. Not some silly internet ranking for players.

Anyone can play the 4 points game. Last time I looked, the Badgers did not win 3 games by 1 point, but what do I know. The Gophers could just as easily be 3-9 as 6-6. So what. They are what the are.

Good luck at the Camp next year.
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I was watching a Badger show on Big 10 yesterday and it was an interview with Barry Alvarez. The host asked what made the first Rose Bowl so special. He said it was the fact that the core of the team were guys who took a chance on him in the short recruiting time after the Orange Bowl (With ND) and signing day. The took that class and turned it into a Rose Bowl Champion.

Brewster's equivalent will be the next two years.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I am a Gopher fan and an adamant Bucky hater, but I can't really see arguing that there youth in their two deeps is merely a product of bad Srs. For example, John Clay is a Soph., Nick Toon is a Soph., Montee Ball is a Fresh., and these guys beat out some fairly talented upperclassmen. Clay and Ball beat out Zack Brown. Brown ran for 500 yards in his freshmen season and would certainly start for the Gophers (and some other Big 10 teams). He was beat out by Clay and Ball. Nick Toon became the #1 target as a soph over upperclassmen Jefferson and Gilraeth. I guess my point is that some of these young players have just emerged and supplanted fairly decent upperclassmen in Madison. I hope Bucky fails, I really do, but they do have some young, talented players.

**Note, I still think the Badger program would be better off without Bielema. He single handidly took his team out of the games with Ohio St. and Iowa, but you do have to tip your cap to him for developing some decent young talent.
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They do have some young talent, they also have lost out on quite a few in state guys this year, and had a few lukewarm years in 08 and 09.
I've said this before, and I'll get put in my place again by the badger trolls around here, but the in state Madison-HS coach relationships just seem to be fading and becoming more of an issue.
Hardy, Parrish, Hagerup, Epping, Eggen, etc. These guys represent a good chunk of in state D1 talent that was either ignored or scorned and left wisconsin. We saw it here with the previous regime.
It's not even a loss for them this year, but over time friends, cousins, brothers, coaches, etc of kids that had bad dealings with Madison will get a bad taste in their mouths. Eventually coaches will steer their athletes towards a program that they've had good dealings with, and away from one that has denied their kids several times. Then out state pipelines dry up(they do all the time) and recruiting really suffers, HS relationships aren't there to fall back on, and the whole thing rots from the inside. It happened here, it can happen to wisky.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I was watching a Badger show on Big 10 yesterday and it was an interview with Barry Alvarez. The host asked what made the first Rose Bowl so special. He said it was the fact that the core of the team were guys who took a chance on him in the short recruiting time after the Orange Bowl (With ND) and signing day. The took that class and turned it into a Rose Bowl Champion.

Brewster's equivalent will be the next two years.
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Very true. That class was the backbone of the Rose Bowl team in '94. That class compares to Brewster's first class that everyone on this board says does not count. Interesting.
 

So your premise is that UW ought to offer a scholarship to every football player that might end up at another school to keep the coaches happy? There are plenty of Texas players in other states and yet UT continues to get plenty to come to their school.

UW offered Hagerup obviously, but he saw the punter in front of him for two years and went to a national brand name.

You do realize that UW has 8 in-state commits for next year compared to 3 for Minnesota? And that Okuyemi and Tarpley are Minnesota kids who committed out of state? And that Beau Allen and Seantrel Henderson probably will too? Is the Gopher staff letting their HS relationships fall apart?

You can call me a troll, I look at it as pointing out the facts.

Ole said:
They do have some young talent, they also have lost out on quite a few in state guys this year, and had a few lukewarm years in 08 and 09.
I've said this before, and I'll get put in my place again by the badger trolls around here, but the in state Madison-HS coach relationships just seem to be fading and becoming more of an issue.
Hardy, Parrish, Hagerup, Epping, Eggen, etc. These guys represent a good chunk of in state D1 talent that was either ignored or scorned and left wisconsin. We saw it here with the previous regime.
It's not even a loss for them this year, but over time friends, cousins, brothers, coaches, etc of kids that had bad dealings with Madison will get a bad taste in their mouths. Eventually coaches will steer their athletes towards a program that they've had good dealings with, and away from one that has denied their kids several times. Then out state pipelines dry up(they do all the time) and recruiting really suffers, HS relationships aren't there to fall back on, and the whole thing rots from the inside. It happened here, it can happen to wisky.
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Ole said:
They do have some young talent, they also have lost out on quite a few in state guys this year, and had a few lukewarm years in 08 and 09.
I've said this before, and I'll get put in my place again by the badger trolls around here, but the in state Madison-HS coach relationships just seem to be fading and becoming more of an issue.
Hardy, Parrish, Hagerup, Epping, Eggen, etc. These guys represent a good chunk of in state D1 talent that was either ignored or scorned and left wisconsin. We saw it here with the previous regime.
It's not even a loss for them this year, but over time friends, cousins, brothers, coaches, etc of kids that had bad dealings with Madison will get a bad taste in their mouths. Eventually coaches will steer their athletes towards a program that they've had good dealings with, and away from one that has denied their kids several times. Then out state pipelines dry up(they do all the time) and recruiting really suffers, HS relationships aren't there to fall back on, and the whole thing rots from the inside. It happened here, it can happen to wisky.
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2008 they signed the only two 4 star players in Wisconsin. One has not played because of injury, may never play, one started as a sophomore.

2009 they signed the only two 4 star players in Wisconsin. Both redshirted. In addition, they signed 3 other 4 star players. They all played.

Those don't sound like lukewarm years to me, either in state or out of state.

I know this is not popular om this board, but there were lineman in state they liked better then Eppen and Epping. They offered them scholarships and they accepted. They have a very good record of developing offensive lineman. Time will tell if they are right or wrong. I know the coaching staff does not recruit based on Rivals rankings. I hope they have great careers at the U. Hardy was never going to Wisconsin, wish him luck at Iowa. Hagerup is a punter who did not want to sit for two years.

It was a deep, but not star studded class in Wisconsin and the Badgers have 6 in state commitments as well as some preferred walk ons with D1 offers as well as 2 grey shirt commitments. In state recruiting is just fine.
 

breadtree said:
So your premise is that UW ought to offer a scholarship to every football player that might end up at another school to keep the coaches happy? There are plenty of Texas players in other states and yet UT continues to get plenty to come to their school.

UW offered Hagerup obviously, but he saw the punter in front of him for two years and went to a national brand name.

You do realize that UW has 8 in-state commits for next year compared to 3 for Minnesota? And that Okuyemi and Tarpley are Minnesota kids who committed out of state? And that Beau Allen and Seantrel Henderson probably will too? Is the Gopher staff letting their HS relationships fall apart?

You can call me a troll, I look at it as pointing out the facts.
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I think this is definitely a good point, but just to spin it in us Gopher fans favor a bit (that's what these boards are for right?):

* Bucky lost the #1 and #2 recruits in their state to Iowa and Minnesota. I think there is a bit of a difference between losing a kid to USC and losing a kid to the Hawkeyes/Gophers. If Seantrel goes to Iowa...it's just as problematic. as Hardy going to Iowa.
*Now lets look at who you have "outrecruited" for the signed instate talent...
Michael Trotter: (other offers): Central Michigan, Illinois St., Indiana, Northern Iowa
Bryce Gilbert: Eastern Illinois, Illinois St., Indiana, Northern Iowa
Konrad Z#%gbski: Minnesota
Marquis Mason: No one
Kyle French: Northern Illinois, Wyoming
Jeff Lewis: Buffalo, Southern Illinois, Illinois St., Indiana, Northern Iowa, Western Michigan
Jake Irwin: No one

I am not saying these kids won't be good football players. One of the things that I respect the most about Badger football is that they are able to find diamonds in the rough (the Jim Leonards (spelling) of the world).

However, for most of your in-state recruits, Bielema outrecruited Div. 1 AA teams, MAC teams, and Indiana. The best program you outrecruited for an instate kid is...Minnesota, and that was for one kid (Konrad). The Gophers landed 2 kids from MN who Sconny offered (Edwards, Gjere).

Furthermore, look at the offer lists of the kids who haven't signed/signed elsewhere:
Seantrel: Everywhere
Tobi: Nebraska, Michigan, Michigan St., Iowa, Wisconsin
Beau Allen: Michigan, Stanford, Notre Dame, UCLA, Northwestern, Iowa, Colorado
Tarpley was never offered by the Gophers

*I would imagine we can agree that those schools might be a tad tougher to recruit against than the Northern Iowas/Central Michigans? Right?
 





Bob_Loblaw said:
I think this is definitely a good point, but just to spin it in us Gopher fans favor a bit (that's what these boards are for right?):

* Bucky lost the #1 and #2 recruits in their state to Iowa and Minnesota. I think there is a bit of a difference between losing a kid to USC and losing a kid to the Hawkeyes/Gophers. If Seantrel goes to Iowa...it's just as problematic. as Hardy going to Iowa.
*Now lets look at who you have "outrecruited" for the signed instate talent...
Michael Trotter: (other offers): Central Michigan, Illinois St., Indiana, Northern Iowa
Bryce Gilbert: Eastern Illinois, Illinois St., Indiana, Northern Iowa
Konrad Z#%gbski: Minnesota
Marquis Mason: No one
Kyle French: Northern Illinois, Wyoming
Jeff Lewis: Buffalo, Southern Illinois, Illinois St., Indiana, Northern Iowa, Western Michigan
Jake Irwin: No one

I am not saying these kids won't be good football players. One of the things that I respect the most about Badger football is that they are able to find diamonds in the rough (the Jim Leonards (spelling) of the world).

However, for most of your in-state recruits, Bielema outrecruited Div. 1 AA teams, MAC teams, and Indiana. The best program you outrecruited for an instate kid is...Minnesota, and that was for one kid (Konrad). The Gophers landed 2 kids from MN who Sconny offered (Edwards, Gjere).

Furthermore, look at the offer lists of the kids who haven't signed/signed elsewhere:
Seantrel: Everywhere
Tobi: Nebraska, Michigan, Michigan St., Iowa, Wisconsin
Beau Allen: Michigan, Stanford, Notre Dame, UCLA, Northwestern, Iowa, Colorado
Tarpley was never offered by the Gophers

*I would imagine we can agree that those schools might be a tad tougher to recruit against than the Northern Iowas/Central Michigans? Right?
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Good post. However, the Badgers can't lose a recruit that they don't offer. They did lose Hardy to Iowa. What can you do? This was a good year in Wisconsin for the number of players getting D1 offers. It was not a good year for top end talent. Next year looks better in that regard. The backbone of the team is the kids they have recruited in state this year and every year, I don't care who offered them.
 


craw0092 said:
I'll let you know when you are welcome to the conversation.
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Thanks. After the bowls it is 9 months until the next game is played. It is going to be a fun off season on the Gopher Hole. Looking forward to it.
 

GVBadger said:
Thanks. After the bowls it is 9 months until the next game is played. It is going to be a fun off season on the Gopher Hole. Looking forward to it.
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I have never been on the Badger page... but it must be horribly lame.

Thanks for the tip, I think I'll stick to my roots.
 

GVBadger said:
Ok, here you go. Explain the talent drain that is coming.

Rivals Rankings for Wisconsin since 2002.

2002 50
2003 40
2004 39
2005 33
2006 42
2007 34
2008 41
2009 43.

I may be an idiot, but those look really similar to me. The 2007 class, which are redsirt freshman or sophomores now is the "best" and I use that term loosely of the last 8 classes.

So, no talent drain yet. If you think there is a big differnce between the 33rd and the 43rd ranked class, then I don't know what to say. There is no point in arguing.
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I'm just running the numbers. It might be that other teams have stepped up their recruiting?? While Wiscy is slowly dropping. Consider you're currently 9th in the Big Ten for this years class. Someday that will be your senior class.

Overall team strength grading out all four classes weighted towards experience you're currently sitting 5th in th Big Ten. When I run the numbers this winter your overall strength won't drop much for next year but you'll be sitting 7th as other teams had ramped up. The next two years your overall team strength does begin to decline.

Hey every year at least one team over achieves. This year it was Northwestern. Every year at least one team under achieves, this year we had two in Michigan and Illinois. Maybe Wiscy will get lucky and be the over achiever like Northwestern.
 

keep running those numbers schnoodler. We badger fans are terribly upset that the Schnoodler's numbers aren't pointing to the rose bowl for UW. Oh well, we will have to find a way to do it, yet again, on the field and not using numbers from a recruiting site.
 


GVBadger said:
Good post. However, the Badgers can't lose a recruit that they don't offer. They did lose Hardy to Iowa. What can you do? This was a good year in Wisconsin for the number of players getting D1 offers. It was not a good year for top end talent. Next year looks better in that regard. The backbone of the team is the kids they have recruited in state this year and every year, I don't care who offered them.
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No, I agree. They shouldn't get blasted for losing Parish and the lineman (forgot his name) to MN, but MN shouldn't get blast for losing Tarpley (never offered him).

I do agree with you that the backbone of most teams needs to be the local kids. I think Brewster does a good job of recruiting locally. However, this season there is an extraordinarily (for MN) high number of recruits being recruited by the big time programs. A program like MN isn't going to take a ton of kids away from Ohio St., Notre Dame, and USC. My point is that this season is sort of an anomoly for recruiting in the state of MN. If you look at last season (more normal), the Gophers landed 6/10 top recuits in the nation (and they didn't offer two of the kids).

Recruiting is only part of the battle, but IMO Brewster has done a better job over the past few seasons than Bielema (just by looking at their records to players they both offered). However, Bielema has shown that his staff has done a better job of developing these players thus far. Both of these statements could get go the other way in a couple years but for now, that's just my opinion.
 

I'm not sure bielema has, I would have agreed with you earlier, but the more I looked at it he pretty much brought them to the place his talent would have suggested they go, as has Brewster. Now, Fitzgerald, he's got something going.
 

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