BB Ticket Prices <Rant Warning>

Southpaw

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I don’t know if it’s been mentioned before on this board but, about a month ago, Iowa announced its Men’s BB ticket pricing structure for this season - $25 for weekend B10 games; $20 for weekday B10 games; and $12 for all non-Conference games – quite a departure from the $31 per game charged for all BB games this season by the Gopher Athletic Department.

For comparison purposes, I also checked the Michigan State athletic site; I don’t think anyone would dispute the fact that MSU has the most successful BB program in the B10 (at least during the Izzo Era) and is a top 5 program nationally. Currently, season ticket holders for Spartans BB are paying $26 per game for Lower Chair/ Bench seats; $20 per game for Upper Chair seats; and $11 per game for Upper Bench seats.

So there are two different ticket pricing approaches for the two schools in my sample (I didn’t see any evidence of Priority Seating at either school but I can’t be certain – more on that later). Iowa bases its ticket prices on the attractiveness of the game (i.e. demand), whereas MSU bases its ticket prices on where your seats are in the arena. The one thing the two schools have in common is that their ticket prices are significantly cheaper than what is being charged by Minnesota. For example, an Iowa season ticket holder pays 24% less to attend a weekend B10 game (55% less for a B10 weekday game and 158% less for a NC game) than we pay to see a team called Utah Valley (anyone ever heard of these guys before they popped up on our schedule?) .

Feeling ripped off? I suspect that the ticket prices we are paying for Gopher BB are the highest in the B10 and among the highest in the country – if one of the outstanding analysts on this board wants to be extra ambitious, perhaps you could prove/ disprove this theory with some solid data – any takers? (Selection Sunday?). The Gopher Athletic Dept has been gouging us season ticket holders for years and I, for one, am fed up. Most of us loyal Gopher fans stayed with the team during the lean Monson years, where mediocrity was king and highlights were rare; the Athletic Dept has turned its back on our loyalty and continued to treat us with disdain with its “anything for a buck” attitude (Priority Seating; continued high prices) and lousy home NC schedules (FoT – please don’t take this comment as an opportunity to beat the dead horse on the schedule issue – you’re wrong – none of the teams on our home NC schedule will finish in the top 100 in the RPI rankings).

Let’s look at a specific instance of price gouging from last season. Who could forget the Basketball “Classic” the Gophers hosted featuring an anonymous collection of pathetic have-nots (Georgia State, Bowling Green and Concordia) – this had to be one of the worst tournament fields hosted by a BCS school in NCAA history. The typical format for these 4-team tourneys is host vs creampuff on the first day while the other 2 teams (usually at least semi-decent) play each other for the right to meet the host in the championship game. The Gophers decided to tweak the format a bit and make it a round robin – why, you ask? That way the Athletic Dept could extract an additional $30 from its abused, unwitting customers – let’s charge the poor saps for 3 admissions instead of 2! I suppose an alternate explanation could be that they couldn’t figure out which of the 3 opponents would fill the role of “creampuff “since they all would qualify.

There’s a self-perpetuating aspect to the abysmal non-Conference schedules we’ve had to endure lately. Scheduling a quality opponent almost always entails a return engagement at their place. To do this, the Athletic Dept would have to sacrifice gate receipts for 14,000 tickets priced at $31 each, a significant chunk of change. If you compare this situation with that existing at Iowa you will note a big difference. Iowa currently plays in-State rival, Iowa State, each year – this season the game is at Ames.
Therefore Iowa had to forgo a NC game to accommodate this rivalry primarily because it was something their fan base desired (imagine that). But it only cost the Hawkeyes gate receipts from a full house at $12 per ticket, a much smaller economic sacrifice than what the Gophers would have to make to schedule a home/ home with a good opponent. Furthermore, because the Iowa State matchup is such a popular draw, Iowa could conceivably charge B10 prices for that game next year (don’t know if they plan to do that or not). So they really wouldn’t be sacrificing anything over a 2-year period. The only reason Minnesota would have to schedule a quality NC opponent at home is that it would be something their loyal fan base wanted – based on recent history, I wouldn’t hold my breath on that occurrence. Because of the economic disincentive, partially due to our current ticket pricing structure, I predict that we will continue to be stuck with the dregs of D1 BB on our home NC schedule with no BCS school matchups except for those dictated by the ongoing agreement between the B10 and ACC. In order to beef up our NCAA resume, we’ll continue to seek out quality RPI opponents in neutral site tournaments. Prove me wrong, Tubby!! Pleeeeease.

An interesting note on MSU BB: The Spartans are undergoing a seat reallocation process which will take effect in the 2010-11 season. It sounds very much like the process followed to allocate seats at TCF Bank Stadium (loyalty points, financial giving history, etc). Details are sketchy, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the prime seats required an annual priority donation similar to TCF Bank and priority seating at Williams Arena. It’ll be interesting to see how that all plays out – however, when the dust settles, I’d be willing to bet that the Gophers will maintain its number one ranking when it comes to high ticket prices.

Cynical Prediction: A number of you reported that you received information about an expansion of priority seating in your season ticket renewal applications – If I recall correctly, about 75% of the seats in Williams Arena would fall under the new plan and require an additional “donation”. Although the Athletic Dept labeled this mailing as a mistake, the mere fact that a draft plan exists does not bode well for us – they’re just waiting for the right time to lower the boom on us. An additional $250-$500 annual fee on top of already overpriced tickets would be outrageous IMO. Pro-rated over 18 games, a $250 fee would result in an increase of about $14 (or 45%) per ticket over current prices. How do you feel about forking over $45 to see the likes of Utah Valley? If the Gophers are as successful this season as most of us think they will be, the new priority seating plan could be implemented as early as next season (after the euphoria of a B10 title and an NCAA tourney run) and probably no later than the season after next.

Finally, I’m bracing myself for the inevitable comeback: “if you don’t like the price of the tickets, don’t buy them.” If that’s what you’re thinking, then you’re missing my point – the point being that the Gopher Athletic Dept is taking advantage of its customers and it’s high time someone called them on it. We all recognize that AD’s across the country face budget challenges, but Mr. Maturi needs to explain why his solution is to balance his budget on the backs of the U of M’s loyal fan base.
 

Most schools rake thier football fans over the coals to a much higher degree then Minnesota does. Since the football program can't do that, Minnesota does it to the basketball fans. It's not fair, but the relative ineptitude of the football program is a big reason why the basketball tickets are among the most expensive in the nation.
 

Southpaw, that was a very well thought out and well researched post. I encourage you to e-mail it to Maturi. He will take the time to personally read it and respond. I would be eager to hear his response.

Go Gophers!!
 

Welcome to life in a real city. It doesn't surprise me at all that living in MPLS is going to more expensive than East Lansing or Iowa City...
 

Howda, I tend to agree that football revenue is the savior to many athletic program budgets. Now that the Dome years are behind us, future revenues from suites, preferred seating and guaranteed sellouts at TCF Bank Stadium should help fill the U's coffers. The question now is whether any of that windfall will filter down to the BB program in terms of ticket prices more in line with other B10 schools.
 


Yes, by all means, let's follow the Hawkeye ticket plan. Let's bring in a coach who alienates just about their entire fan base (Alford), then bring in a new coach who has the personality of the paint on the wall (Lickliter), put together a string of 3-4 seasons with no post-season, driving demand to an all-time low (about 10000 last year), and then be forced to drop ticket prices to try to fill the arena. Yeah, that sounds like fun!

My guess is that if Iowa had Tubby Smith, had gone to the NCAA tourney last year, had a couple of back-to-back Top 25 recruiting classes, etc., that they would not be dropping ticket prices to sell tickets. They would be selling them at full price and filling the place.

Simply put, there's a price to be paid when you're the headliner at a Big Ten school (i.e. Tubby and MBB at Minnesota) and that headliner makes more than $2 million per season.
 

#1-If you want cheap tickets this winter for basketball..go down to the Target Center! IALTO
#2-I will agree that they are over-priced, but it is all about the demand. Can they sell the tickets (or enough) and justify having the price where it is? Obviously they, the athletic department, can and will... its simple business.
#3-Another question for Maturi (if you are indeed going to send him an email) would be, with the extra income from the new football stadium, why did they raise the student section prices this year? Last year student section prices were $99, this year it is $130 or $140....

Side note- Anybody know if the athletic department is still paying Mason and Monson or are they off the books?
 

The question now is whether any of that windfall will filter down to the BB program in terms of ticket prices more in line with other B10 schools.
Unlikely since the demand for tickets is still greater than or equal to the supply. Your argument is really one of "equity" as opposed to "market demand."

If the T'wolves started luring fans away from the BB fans (and/or the Wild, etc), then there would be market pressure to make pricing concessions. (That may help explain the mini-package deals that the Gophers offered this year.) But I don't otherwise see the Gophers reducing prices.

A more realistic approach may be to persuade the athletic department to continue to forestall or moderate any price increases and/or premium adjustments for better seats. (I have to wonder if their eyes weren't opened a bit when they found that the football seatbacks with higher premiums weren't exactly snapped up by those with relatively high priority.)
 

If people continue to pay

for the tickets and they sell out - then I'm not sure you can do anything but complain. Yes, the non-conference games suck. Everyone but FOT agrees on that. But I will gladly pay these prices if the team continues to make progress moving up the conference standings.

I also welcome the reallocation (even if it makes my current seats more expensive) as I'm guessing it will make the new practice facility a more realistic possibility.

(And if you ever compare Minnesota basketball to Iowa basketball again . . . . :eek: )
 



Simply put, there's a price to be paid when you're the headliner at a Big Ten school (i.e. Tubby and MBB at Minnesota) and that headliner makes more than $2 million per season.

Perhaps, but then how do you explain the fact that we were still paying $30/ ticket during the Monson era? Wasn't Monson one of the lower paid coaches in the B10? Also, isn't Izzo making more than Tubby? MSU currently has much more reasonably priced tickets and I gotta believe the demand would support higher prices.
 

Bleed alerted me to this topic since he gets to hear me rant about this topic.

I, honestly, think that the Gophers completely take advantage of the loyal Gophers fan base. How? Let me count the ways:

1. There is no discount given to buy season tickets (or premium for buying single-game tickets). That isn't the case with Twins, Wolves or Wild. The season ticket price shouldn't be face value times number of game.

2. If that is the pricing model that the U wants to use, that is fine. But I think that there should be some value added for the season ticket holders. For example: Let's say you can't go to the Stephen F. Austin game. You should be able to trade those tickets to the ticket office and get two more tickets for, say, the Brown game. You can do that if you have Guthrie season ticket. I'm not saying trade in Tennessee Tech for Michigan State, but there should be some flexibility.

3. What about some sort of voucher for discounts on concessions for season ticket holders? Or a separate entrance? Or the ability for season-ticket holders to be able to drop off other people on a bad night on the pad right outside the University Ave. entrance if you have special tag.

4. What about some sort of loyalty program. I know it is all about cash, but wouldn't it have been nice for season-ticket holders of a certain length to get a free piece of the WA floor? Or get one at a reduced rate?

Some of those are simply ideas. But the attitude from the athletic department is one of extreme arrogance. If you want to charge among the highest prices in the Big Ten for your tickets, there needs to be some return on the investment. It doesn't have to be expensive. Use a little creativity.
 

Unlikely since the demand for tickets is still greater than or equal to the supply. Your argument is really one of "equity" as opposed to "market demand."

Good distinction. However, I think there's a "fear factor" built into the demand for Gopher season tickets. Many of us are long time season ticket holders and we're afraid we'll lose our place in line if we give up our tickets while waiting for the BB program to turn the corner (who can forget the glory years of 1982 and 1997 ?). Therefore, we're willing, albeit begrudgingly, to pay a premium to maintain our season ticket priority - I guess you could classify that as "market demand" if you look at it in the context of "season" tickets vs the demand for individual game tickets. Anyone who has tried to sell their extra tickets before a NC game can attest to the fact that you're lucky to get half the face value of your ticket - to me, that's represents the true market demand for those games and from that standpoint, Iowa's ticket pricing policy makes sense (i.e. charging less for NC games).
 

This I know for sure.

On the nights when I can't find anyone to go to the primarily crap nonconference games with me, I consider myself lucky if I get $8 from a scalper. Seriously. That's less than 30% of their face value. And it's not like my seats are bad. They're low lower level, on the end of the court. It's pretty apparent to me a lot of people with season tickets will just wait until the Big 10 season to regularly start coming to games.
 



Great Post!

Please send this to Maturi. This really hits the nail on the head for me.

You should never fail to take care of your base clientele, yet we get offers of parking deals that aren't even deals. I can get decent parking deals and trade tickets and get priority on extra single tickets w/my SPCO season tickets PLUS invites to special talks, private thank you concerts, etc.
I'll add that it irked me to find out that the U had free parking for the tip off and didn't publicize it to their season ticket holders.

Bleed alerted me to this topic since he gets to hear me rant about this topic.

I, honestly, think that the Gophers completely take advantage of the loyal Gophers fan base. How? Let me count the ways:

1. There is no discount given to buy season tickets (or premium for buying single-game tickets). That isn't the case with Twins, Wolves or Wild. The season ticket price shouldn't be face value times number of game.

2. If that is the pricing model that the U wants to use, that is fine. But I think that there should be some value added for the season ticket holders. For example: Let's say you can't go to the Stephen F. Austin game. You should be able to trade those tickets to the ticket office and get two more tickets for, say, the Brown game. You can do that if you have Guthrie season ticket. I'm not saying trade in Tennessee Tech for Michigan State, but there should be some flexibility.

3. What about some sort of voucher for discounts on concessions for season ticket holders? Or a separate entrance? Or the ability for season-ticket holders to be able to drop off other people on a bad night on the pad right outside the University Ave. entrance if you have special tag.

4. What about some sort of loyalty program. I know it is all about cash, but wouldn't it have been nice for season-ticket holders of a certain length to get a free piece of the WA floor? Or get one at a reduced rate?

Some of those are simply ideas. But the attitude from the athletic department is one of extreme arrogance. If you want to charge among the highest prices in the Big Ten for your tickets, there needs to be some return on the investment. It doesn't have to be expensive. Use a little creativity.
 

Here's one more idea: How about a reception at McNamara before night games (esp. 8 p.m. games) for season ticket holders? Have a cash bar and a cash buffet.

My main point: Treat your best customers like they are your best customers.
 

for the tickets and they sell out - then I'm not sure you can do anything but complain. Yes, the non-conference games suck. Everyone but FOT agrees on that. But I will gladly pay these prices if the team continues to make progress moving up the conference standings.

I also welcome the reallocation (even if it makes my current seats more expensive) as I'm guessing it will make the new practice facility a more realistic possibility.

(And if you ever compare Minnesota basketball to Iowa basketball again . . . . :eek: )

3 tough games in Anaheim tourney. 1 good ACC road game. 3 decent home opponents. 5 home cupcakes.

That's what I've always said. Please note for future reference.
 

From what I've heard through some good sources is that the Williams Arena realication of seats will happen as early as next season. They want to be able to charge up to three times more for premium center-cout seats. You saw some evidence of this last year when they raised prices for some premium seats.

I've heard they are going to use a select-a-seat format similar to TCF. The current old Kaisers with the prime seats that have no premium fees will still get their opportunity to pick first. If they can't afford the seats they can select other seats at the ends with minimal fees. I'm not sure if they give you the right to hold your current seats, but I assume if you are able to pay they will allow you to keep your current locations. I was going to move to center court from near the corner this season but someone close to the program said that my corner seats will remain cheap (if you call $60+ per seat cheap)

The one thing I also heard that kind of bothered me is that the Golden Dunkers Boosters who have a group of tickets will report the names of the members who purchase the seats to the U and able to put whatever arbitrary number they want for ticket history. for example you could own dunker tickets for three years (Many do because the club turned over tons of memberships between the Monson and TUbby years) and the dunkers could say you've been a member for 10 years. When I asked how they verify years my buddy said he didn't know they could because the dunkers are in charge of their own tickets and they donate as a whole group so there is no records. I hope they don't allow this to happen.

Personally I think the Big Ten and Non conference games should be charged differently, but the current value for tickets is fair and It's a good product. I will evaluate my position again if they go up further.
 

Big donations come with all quality seats at all quality programs. Don't forget that. Regardless of the face value.
 

Excellent point Southpaw

Since the demise of Gopher Football in the 70's 80's 90's and 00's basketball has been forced to foot the Minnesota Athletic Department bill at a far higher percentage than other Big Ten schools (save Northwestern and Indiana). It, football and hockey are literally the only significant money making programs in the entire Minnesota Athletic Department.

The Men's basketball fan base has traditionally been the most loyal of any fan base, save possibly the Vikings, in the Twin Cities sports market.

The high prices, and they are among the highest in the country not just the Big Ten, are due to the old bromide "charge what the public will bare". The University knows it will get what it charges. They did not raise ticket prices to any degree during the Monson years because they were seeing major defections. Yet they didn't reduce them because they still got more money from the remaining fan base than they would have from additional fans at reduced prices. Besides no one was going to buy season tickets during the Monson years anyway.

My point is, no matter how unfair it seems, the university is a business and will charge what it can. They can charge more in this market because we have 2.5 million people in the 7 county area to fill 14,000 seats. Iowa City can't come close to that nor can East Lansing. Northwestern can but they have no tradition and no fan base.

I agree it is frustrating. I also know we will get lip service when the seat licenses or premiums seating programs are implemented next year. They will tell us how they anguished over having to do this but they will do it. Too bad so sad.

And we will pay it or loose our seats to the corporations that donate big dollars so they can bring the purchasing agent from their best customer to the greatest venue in Minnesota so he can arrive late, sit on his hands and leave early then tell everyone that it was "OK".
 

sec105,

I totally get the supply and demand thing, but this loyalty shouldn't be a one-way proposition. If the athletic department showed some level of greater appreciation toward its best customers, I think it would be rewarded.

I think that's especially true if they are going to reallocate seats. Building goodwill would be a good move. But that seems to be overlooked.
 

Perhaps, but then how do you explain the fact that we were still paying $30/ ticket during the Monson era? Wasn't Monson one of the lower paid coaches in the B10? Also, isn't Izzo making more than Tubby? MSU currently has much more reasonably priced tickets and I gotta believe the demand would support higher prices.

Fair points. I'm not saying everything is all great. A tier-based pricing system might be nice.

As for $30 with Monson here, those days were going to end. We would be in Iowa's position had he stayed around. We were averaging 11,000 or so and not selling tickets. Then, poof, Tubby shows up and those $30 seats are once again mostly sold.

And, yes, MSU has a high priced coach, etc. But, they also have a huge revenue producer in football. We don't. Maybe someday we will. Frankly, we're lucky we have hockey. That helps fill coffers, too, and probably keeps MBB tickets lower than they might have to be.
 

The point is it would take very little to keep loyal fans happy. Some level of appreciation would go a very long way because programs go up and down and Tubby is here today but not forever.
I have a client who is a long time hockey ticket holder w/fabulous seats. Has connections up the wazoo in the Twin Cities and has commented that HD TV is making staying home a good prospect on a winter night (HD means you can now see the puck!). Being there is getting less important. Its just bad business not to work to make us glad we're there.
 

sec105,

I totally get the supply and demand thing, but this loyalty shouldn't be a one-way proposition. If the athletic department showed some level of greater appreciation toward its best customers, I think it would be rewarded.

I think that's especially true if they are going to reallocate seats. Building goodwill would be a good move. But that seems to be overlooked.

What do you call getting Tubby?

I think he only way we are gettin screwed is the non-conf schedule.

We vote with our wallets, and that is he only way to make a point.
 

Its just bad business not to work to make us glad we're there.

Just curious, what makes you feel like you're not glad you're there. I'm thankful every time I step into the Barn and watch Gopher hoops. Again, not saying everything is perfect, but what would make you feel glad to be there?

lower prices?
tier-pricing?
better seat location?
better non-conference games?

I could see a few of those things being disappointing, but I don't think it means the U is sabotaging my fun or conducting "bad business" as you put it.
 

but this loyalty shouldn't be a one-way proposition.

Sad to say it appears to be "a one-way proposition". The University has always valued the High Rollers (Dave Mona et al) and under valued the every day fans who comprise the balance of the 13,000 fans in Williams Arena, the 10,000 fans at Mariucci and the 50,000 fans at TCF Bank.

Clearly money talks and the University listens. It's difficult to blame them for kowtowing to the "Big Spenders" but it would be really nice to get some sort of thank you for thirty plus years of supporting Gopher sports.

But then when I think about it, getting Tubby Smith is a pretty big thank you.
 

Reread

I said it is bad business not to WORK at making us glad we're supporting the program. I supported this program through the Monson years, and I enjoy most games at the Barn. But when parking gets more challenging and more expensive and you start feeling that the U is looking for every way they can to make a buck off their loyal fan base, you know that they might actually make more money by giving something back from time to time.
I'm a small business owner and my clients are very grateful for my work. Nonetheless, I ought not be cocky and not return the sentiment. I work to make sure they KNOW I appreciate the arrangement.
Read anon's posts and you'll get the idea of what I think.
Just curious, what makes you feel like you're not glad you're there. I'm thankful every time I step into the Barn and watch Gopher hoops. Again, not saying everything is perfect, but what would make you feel glad to be there?

lower prices?
tier-pricing?
better seat location?
better non-conference games?

I could see a few of those things being disappointing, but I don't think it means the U is sabotaging my fun or conducting "bad business" as you put it.
 

Southpaw and Anonymous - FANTASTIC posts. Great ideas.

What I don't think people get are things are good now, we have Tubby, went to the tourney, and most of us expect another appearance this year (personally, I think we could make a run). However, what happens when we have more 3 BT win seasons? What the U doesn't get is the fact that they need to build a loyal fanbase, we have a fairweather fanbase. To do that - you appreciate your season ticket holders, people playing $30 to see Concordia. That way, when you have a bad season, or seasons (which will always happen), you still have bodies in your seats, and revenue coming in.

After the Humphries year, they dropped student ticket prices from about $200 to $99, and the following year, they were $59 if you bought football tickets. Public attendance just dropped off, and tickets were unused. I just find this whole mind-set so reactive instead of proactive. But let's be honest, I spent years trying to change this (as many of us have), and 95% (and that's being generous) of things don't change and ideas aren't used. I guess all we have is GH to vent on!
 

Southpaw and Anonymous - FANTASTIC posts. Great ideas.

Thanks for the kind words, Gopher Lady. I mostly just compained, but anonymous should get a lot of credit for providing some excellent, constructive suggestions for Mr. Maturi to consider. As Bleed and others suggested, I did a cut/ paste on my post and included it in an email to Mr. Maturi. I also provided a link to the forum and encouraged him to read the follow-on responses to the message thread I started. From what others have said, I'm fairly confident that Mr. Maturi will read my email and provide some sort of response - but the question is, will the response be mere lip service or will he actually seriously address our concerns on ticket prices, expansion of preferred seating, scheduling, etc. - if he goes to the trouble of following the link I provided, I hold out the most hope that he'll consider some of the suggestions provided by ananymous.

I'll let you all know what Mr. Maturi says in response to me email - I assume he's in Columbus now, so I don't know when he'll catch up on his emails.
 

Ticket prices

Every year it seems this topic gets rehashed. Our ticket prices are high - they have been high, and probably will continue to be high. Like many have already replied, we have only 3 revenue generating sports here at MN, with football hardly carrying its weight in the past. These 3 sports subsidize all the women's + the remaining men's sports. Like another poster earlier, I too would like the U to go to points system for allocating tickets like they did for TCF stadium. I have paid for Assured Seating since the remodel of Williams several years ago. I usually ask for seat improvement each year. I rarely have been improved. There are many that have better seats than I that pay no Assured Seating, obviously, those people don't feel that ticket prices are too high as they keep renewing. Until the demand subsides or the U's financial improves, we will be paying higher ticket prices - because we have shown that we will.
 

Great posts and I totally agree that we are being taken advantage of. Face value on the 2 exhibition games are $35 and the same as the home Wisconsin game? C'mon!!!!!!
At least, for my minds sake, charge me $15 for these two games and spread out the other $20 over the course of the Big Ten schedule. Do they actually think that someone is going to pay $35 to watch either of these games?
And do the same for the non conference games. Put a face value of $25 for these games and charge me the difference over the Big Ten schedule. I understand it's a wash.

AND PLEASE OFFER SEASON TICKET HOLDERS A TICKET EXCHANGE!!!!! Time to get into the year 2009.
 




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