Back-Up PG Blues

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Clem's Gophers said:
Unless GW is doing a really impressive act, you could not be him, your writing style is terrible. Really bad. 3rd Grade level at best.
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Thanks? I'm not a writer, so don't care. I thought my point was clear.
 



gopherMD said:
Tonite was further evidence that Mav and Chip are not D1 players and need to move on. Welch is too slow to play PG and cannot shoot FTs which means a PG needs to be recruited for next year. There are undoubtedly PGs not yet signed. If Dre goes down it will be Al Nolen 2.0 again with no one to handle the ball much less provide effective PG play.
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Chip is most definitely a D1 player. Whether or not he is a B1G-caliber play is the real question.
 

Woodard is projected as a wing, like Coleman. I don't know if Lockett could play the point any better. Great strong wing also. Chambers might have been a pure pg, not sure if he is high big ten though.

I still would love to have a pure pg and dre off the ball, playing a combo spot like bobby jackson. But a guy cannot have everything.

Last night I saw two glaring weaknesses. One strength, and two ball handling. And maybe in some cases both related.

This is why Trevor and Mo would really help. Playing Ingram at the 5 isn't ideal, but on this team with a lack of strength he was playing some of the teams best ball.

One can call it lack of coaching, mundane play calling, bad exectution, but in the end of any big ten games the defense will pick up, the refs swallow their wistle and the teams that have players, especially guards, who are quick, strong, and skilled will bring their teams to victory.
 


march madness said:
One can call it lack of coaching, mundane play calling, bad exectution, but in the end of any big ten games the defense will pick up, the refs swallow their wistle and the teams that have players, especially guards, who are quick, strong, and skilled will bring their teams to victory.
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Agree, and even then it doesn't always work. Games have all run together by this time of the year. Wisconsin either in the Big 10 or the NCAA looked positively awful at the end of their last game even with Taylor handling the ball. Don't even think he hit the rim on his last second shot. Same thing ith Purdue in the NCAA (?). Jackson and Painter got ripped. They held it until Jackson turned it over going nowhere. All sorts of factors, but for some people it's always the coach.
 

Purdue has one guy on the entire team who will sniff the NBA. I would say Painter is the second best to Izzo and just ahead of sour puss ryan about getting everything out of a teams talent.

Self and Kansas knew the two guards on the court for Purdue cannot and will not shoot outside (t. johnson,jackson). Hummel and Byrd were killing them from three. So Self brilliantly had his guards sag way into the lane so his forwards could overplay the forwards from three. There was no where for Jackson to go if he wouldn't/couldnt shoot. fyi jackson shoots 21% on three's. johnson 31%. f=byrd 43% Hummel 38%.
This is why Self is up for coach of the year. Majerus did this kind of thing with utah constantly.
 

march madness said:
Woodard is projected as a wing, like Coleman. I don't know if Lockett could play the point any better. Great strong wing also. Chambers might have been a pure pg, not sure if he is high big ten though.
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Ya this is what I was thinking. I just looked at Rivals for guards from Minnesota, and Woodard is the only good one that's uncommitted. I just don't get how guys that bash Tubby's spring recruiting and think he needs to stop doing it also say he needs to bring in a PG this spring.
 

7 of the top 50 2012 PGs on ESPN are unsigned. I would bet most would jump at the chance to play meaningful minutes on B1G team like the Gophers. Dump Mav and Chip and sign one.
 



gopherMD said:
7 of the top 50 2012 PGs on ESPN are unsigned. I would bet most would jump at the chance to play meaningful minutes on B1G team like the Gophers. Dump Mav and Chip and sign one.
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Link? I can't find it.

Where did Chambers rank on that list?

I only see 15 PG that are on the ESPN 2012 TOP100 & it appears all of them are signed. You think this guy will be a better option than Andre or Welch?

Hit the books doc.

__________________________

It appears Chambers is 35ish on rivals PG for 2012. If we didn't want him not sure these other guys would take a roster spot.
 


So if the board concludes there's no one new who can be brought in, then the answer is a healthier and hopefully quicker Julian Welch needs to come back as a senior prepared to play 5 to 10 minutes a game as the back-up PG. I have to think the hip pointer slowed him down and he clearly was affected emotionally by the IL opener freethrow miscues which created doubts in the minds of the team generally in closing out games throughout the B1G season IMO.

Welch can do it if he can rebuild his legs and confidence.
 




BOUNDOUTPASSDUNK said:
So if the board concludes there's no one new who can be brought in
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Seems a large number of posters say we need to bring someone in. I don't see it happening. Locket would be a great option as a SG who could help handle the rock, I wouldn't bet on a freshman or juco at this point.

9194Gophs said:
Link? I can't find it.

Where did Chambers rank on that list?

I only see 15 PG that are on the ESPN 2012 TOP100 & it appears all of them are signed. You think this guy will be a better option than Andre or Welch?
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Go to ESPN NCAA BB, then recruiting nation, then database, then click on PG. There is 1 3 star and the rest are 2 stars. These are not top 150 players.
 


gopherMD said:
Go to ESPN NCAA BB, then recruiting nation, then database, then click on PG. There is 1 3 star and the rest are 2 stars. These are not top 150 players.
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Sounds like filling a Interstate pothole with sand.
 


gopherMD said:
7 of the top 50 2012 PGs on ESPN are unsigned. I would bet most would jump at the chance to play meaningful minutes on B1G team like the Gophers. Dump Mav and Chip and sign one.
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Why stop there? Might as well cut Welch and Ingram too. That gives us 4 players and three 2012 tenders to trade. I'm sick of this Minnesota Nice stuff. Time to think outside the box.
 

The 7 I mentioned are rated higher than Chambers including the 20th rated, Dewayne Russell from Peoria, AZ who has interest from USC amongst others. These guys probably have high opinions of themselves and wait to long for their dream offer. This is probably how Mav was recruited. I heard that he was a last minute signee who was not well vetted.
 

gopherMD said:
The 7 I mentioned are rated higher than Chambers including the 20th rated, Dewayne Russell from Peoria, AZ who has interest from USC amongst others. These guys probably have high opinions of themselves.
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Russell was a USC commit... he backed out recently. I don't think USC is a realistic possibility any longer.

I forget who he's talking to now, but prior to his verbal to USC (in Dec?) he seemed destined to stay out west
 

The Stanford game clearly showed that the Gophers need a back-up PG. They have not signed a PG so far for 2012. Mav is a turnover factory and Welch is too slow and limited athletically. Welch is a solid shooter when he gets good looks but is not a clutch player. Send Mav and Chip packing, sign a PG after carefully scouting the available candidates, and give other scholarship to Mbakwe. The Lockett decision will be occur soon IMO.
 


gopherMD said:
Go to ESPN NCAA BB, then recruiting nation, then database, then click on PG. There is 1 3 star and the rest are 2 stars. These are not top 150 players.
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If we need immediate PG help a Freshman is not the answer.
 

9194Gophs said:
What PGs do we have offered (recruiting/watching) for 2013?
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As long as we are after Tyus this will remain a difficult situation for the Gophers to recruit to. They are not going to get a real good player anyway if the guy thinks that the Gophers are going to try to recruit a player right over the top of him. Short run the best situation is if someone on the ball club is able to improve their play enough to be an efficient backup to Hollins at the point. If Lockett can play some point then that could be a great situation also.
 

I agree with bga and Costa. A ** freshman PG will not help. Did Cobbs really look like a good prospect to anyone as a freshman here? I didn't think so. Dre's development was exceptional.

The program has to send clear message to Tyus that MN wants to build around him. That's one of MN's best arguments to him as contrasted with MSU, where Izzy has feelers out for another top prospect at PG named JaQuan Lyle (****, but not offered according to ESPN), or Duke, where you are a mere cog. It's 'pointless' to bring in a rent-a-PG, which has already been tried unsuccessfully.
 

BOUNDOUTPASSDUNK said:
I agree with bga and Costa. A ** freshman PG will not help. Did Cobbs really look like a good prospect to anyone as a freshman here? I didn't think so. Dre's development was exceptional.

[B]The program has to send clear message to Tyus that MN wants to build around him[/B]. That's one of MN's best arguments to him as contrasted with MSU, where Izzy has feelers out for another top prospect at PG named JaQuan Lyle (****, but not offered according to ESPN), or Duke, where you are a mere cog. It's 'pointless' to bring in a rent-a-PG, which has already been tried unsuccessfully.
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We are going to start building around a 15 year old who may or may not come here? I could personally care less if he comes. We have alot of basketball to play between now and then. This program is bigger than any one individual.
 

I understand the logic offered by bga and Costa but next year the Gophers are poised to do something special. Tyus is a long ways off and not a sure thing. I know nothing about the available PGs cited but I do know that Mav cannot play at this level and a reelable back-up PG to Dre is vital. There has to be one available from junior college, prep school or HS. I don't think a new recruit is any threat to Tyus coming here. The fact that Cobb was not ready does not mean all freshman PGs can't play at this level.
 

My whole point for this thread was that a competent back-up is a must, so we've developed:


a. Recruit a JC PG. He comes in with presumptive experience. But he has to be a true PG.
b. Recruit a frosh PG. I really don't think this helps given who is likely available. The skill drop-off will be like watching our poorest options now.
c. Ask Welch to tone up and become a firm and reliable ball handler manning the point for 5 - 10 minutes per game.
d. Find a way to sign Lockett and ask him to perform c. above.
e. Live with Mav as your option but it would be with great trepidation and reliance on someone to work with him to play within himself and play with confidence instead of living in panic city, the worst city in the world.

I think the boulders will start to fall into place for next year once Trevor confirms his future plans and/or Lockett makes a commitment, whichever occurs first. Those decisions will affect other roster spots and recruiting priorities.
 

If Welch plays as well as he did this year, but cuts down on the turnovers just a bit, that's perfect. He was very good this season.
 

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