B1G vs SEC

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Ope3 said:
It may have mattered "an ounce". They had gotten blown out by Michigan perhaps they go into USC game a bit less confident and lose. Don't know. Just throwing it out there. Last year they got blown out by Michigan and finished 5-7.

My point was Michigan got worse. Minnesota got better. It almost led to a victory, better conference standing, more visible blow against a better opponent. As I previously stated it was an "OPPORTUNITY LOST". That's on the Minnesota.

It was an opportunity. Could have been similar if Ryan Day got canned (or if he moves on), now it's likely the Buckeye machine rolls on. Too bad.


Sorry, I just don't buy the part in Bold that it has any lasting image with the Big 10s standing as a Power 2 conference. I especially don't buy it with non-CFP Bowls in this age of opt outs/transfer Portals.

As for the CFP, I don't think recruits/transfers are going to decide to come to Minnesota based on how Penn St or Ohio St performs.

Care about the Big 10 performance all you want, that's fine. I have stated my opinion from the outset. It's not changing.
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I mean.....in the end it's all conjecture. In my opinion......if we're fighting for recruits with other middling teams from other conferences.....perception matters. Say it's between us and a team like Arkansas or Mizzou for example. If the perception is that the Big Ten is a worse conference than the SEC.....we're likely to do worse with recruiting. Maybe not in a giant way.....but it is certainly a factor.....as recruits have absolutely mentioned playing in certain conferences as their desire to play for certain schools. Seems pretty obvious to me that the better the conference is, the better for all the member teams involved (from a monetary, exposure, and recruiting perspective).
 

stocker08 said:
But we LOST regardless. To a team that lost their head coach and was rebuilding. That doesn't benefit us at all. Saying....hey we only lost by three points to a rebuilding Michigan doesn't matter an ounce.

If the Gophers are going to be a middling team in the Big Ten.....then it's way better for us if the conference as a whole is showing well in the bowls. Players want to play in the best conferences. Makes us more competitive for recruits with SEC offers and may make us a more desirable landing spot than similar teams in the ACC or Big 12.

That's LONG term benefit. Almost beating Michigan one year is zero benefit.
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The Gophers (with USC) tied for the 4th most points scored vs Michigan with 24. Oregon scored38, Texas 31, Washington 27.
 

csom_1991 said:
I am quite different. Other than MN, my cheering order (or better put, my 'I would prefer that they won' list) would be:

OSU (because they can beat MI)
USC (I liked them before they joined the B1G)
Illinois (I went for Grad school)
PennState (nice fans/game day experience)

On the reverse end:
MI (as stated above)
WI (obvious reasons)
OR (they simply bought a team and represent everything wrong with college football and frankly, I don't think they belong in the B1G due to having poor academic standards)
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No hate for Iowa?
 

stocker08 said:
I mean.....in the end it's all conjecture. In my opinion......if we're fighting for recruits with other middling teams from other conferences.....perception matters. Say it's between us and a team like Arkansas or Mizzou for example. If the perception is that the Big Ten is a worse conference than the SEC.....we're likely to do worse with recruiting. Maybe not in a giant way.....but it is certainly a factor.....as recruits have absolutely mentioned playing in certain conferences as their desire to play for certain schools. Seems pretty obvious to me that the better the conference is, the better for all the member teams involved (from a monetary, exposure, and recruiting perspective).
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PMWinSTP said:
No hate for Iowa?
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I am from Wisconsin - so, I never had any hate for Iowa. In fact, I used to like watching them on TV. You will also notice that Wisconsin is not on my cheering list. I am sure this has been posted before by others, but I grew up in Green Bay in the 80/90's. I can say pre-Alvarez, nobody in WI (outside of maybe Madison itself) watched or cared about the Badgers. The Badgers were not good and the people that left Green Bay to go to Madison either dropped out after having a drug addiction or becoming 'strange'. I don't think many Madison graduates ever came back to Green Bay due to lack of job opportunities. So, there was no love for Madison around me growing up. I think the most popular teams were Michigan and Florida State. It is really odd for me how Wisconsin fandom has evolved and I think it will go back to indifference soon for the non-UW graduates if this continues for a few more seasons for them.
 



stocker08 said:
But we LOST regardless. To a team that lost their head coach and was rebuilding. That doesn't benefit us at all. Saying....hey we only lost by three points to a rebuilding Michigan doesn't matter an ounce.

If the Gophers are going to be a middling team in the Big Ten.....then it's way better for us if the conference as a whole is showing well in the bowls. Players want to play in the best conferences. Makes us more competitive for recruits with SEC offers and may make us a more desirable landing spot than similar teams in the ACC or Big 12.

That's LONG term benefit. Almost beating Michigan one year is zero benefit.
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Yeah if we are going to stay middling, then yeah I guess being middling in the best conference is optimal. But if the teams finishing ahead of us start to do worse that gives us a better chance to not be middling. If the whole conference recruits better how does that doesn’t help us move up within the conference?
 


Full Speed Ahead said:
After all that smack from ESPN about how dominant the SEC is in football, the B1G is now 4-1 vs the SEC with the only SEC win being Missouri barely squeaking by Iowa. The BIG also has two teams in the CFP semis, with the SEC only having one (with Texas having to go to overtime to advance).

Ohio State 42, Tennessee 17
USC 35, Texas A&M 31
Michigan 19, Alabama 13
Illinois 21, South Carolina 17
Iowa 24, Missouri 27

Also, kudos to the AAC for going 6-1. And, note that the Group of Five teams currently have a 6-3 advantage over Power Four teams
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And with Texas losing, the SEC is done playing. Here's the wrap on B1G vs SEC:
  • The BIG ends up going 5-1 vs SEC in all bowl games
  • And 2-0 vs SEC in the playoff games.
  • The B1G won those playoff games vs the SEC by an average of 19.5 points.
  • The B1G advanced two teams to the semi-finals, the SEC one team.
  • The B1G has a team in the finals, the SEC doesn't
  • The SEC has a losing record in the playoffs, 2 wins (both by Texas) and 3 losses.
  • The BIG has a winning record in the playoffs, 5 wins and 3 losses (with one game left to play).
That's B1G domination.

In overall P4 conference records:
  • B1G goes 10-6 (so far). More wins than any other conference
  • SEC goes 8-7, barely a winning record.
  • ACC goes 2-11, are they really a P4 conference?
  • BIG 12 goes 4-5


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MaxyJR1 said:
Spreads for argument have to go away. The six playoff games involving the SEC had them perform nearly 11pts worse than the spread per game. It’s hypothetical football.
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The only way to make that argument go away is to have objective criteria

Without objective criteria it is eye test justified by cherry picked metrics
 

btowngopher said:
Yeah if we are going to stay middling, then yeah I guess being middling in the best conference is optimal. But if the teams finishing ahead of us start to do worse that gives us a better chance to not be middling. If the whole conference recruits better how does that doesn’t help us move up within the conference?
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If we can catch some teams down (like Michigan this year)....then that is not necessarily a bad thing for us. But if the top falls off the conference and we turn into another ACC....that WOULD BE a bad thing.

That's all I'm saying.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Spreads for argument have to go away. The six playoff games involving the SEC had them perform nearly 11pts worse than the spread per game. It’s hypothetical football.
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Do you think spreads are like that moving forward? I don't. Combine this year and last and the SEC bias is going away quickly. They dominated for MANY YEARS, it stands to reason that it would take a couple years for that bias to go away. We all wondered if last year's SEC free national championship and their lack of domination overall was an anomaly. This year confirms it was not.
 

btowngopher said:
Yeah if we are going to stay middling, then yeah I guess being middling in the best conference is optimal. But if the teams finishing ahead of us start to do worse that gives us a better chance to not be middling. If the whole conference recruits better how does that doesn’t help us move up within the conference?
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Just say the quiet part out loud: you’d rather be a big fish in a little pond and play in the MAC, or have the B1G become the MAC. Fair enough.

I want the Gophers to make waves in the best conference, and compete in the best conference. Improve themselves in the best conference. The best conference doesn’t have its best teams become weaker across the board. That is the opposite of the best conference.

Quite frankly, I’d find something else to do with my time and money if the Gophers won the Big Ten every year because they managed to hold serve while the rest of the conference fell off considerably and found new peers in the MAC and Sunbelt.
 



Stop with the "rooting" for the Big 10 to "become the MAC nonsense".

You think any of the schools with the alumni base, market size, facility/resource advantages and history will ever be even remotely comparable?

You want to be all proud of the Conference fine. If other Big 10 schools happen to incrementally get knocked down a peg (which some us are rooting for) that isn't going to start some downward spiral towards the MAC, Sun Belt or probably even bigger ones like the ACC or Big 12 as they are currently constructed (for now).

Schnauzer said:
Just say the quiet part out loud: you’d rather be a big fish in a little pond and play in the MAC, or have the B1G become the MAC. Fair enough.

I want the Gophers to make waves in the best conference, and compete in the best conference. Improve themselves in the best conference. The best conference doesn’t have its best teams become weaker across the board. That is the opposite of the best conference.

Quite frankly, I’d find something else to do with my time and money if the Gophers won the Big Ten every year because they managed to hold serve while the rest of the conference fell off considerably and found new peers in the MAC and Sunbelt.
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Right now the MAC is currently 1-1 vs Notre Dame this season. Northern Illinois is the only team to defeat the Irish. I'm hoping they extend their perfect record against the Big 10 to 5-0.
 

stocker08 said:
If we can catch some teams down (like Michigan this year)....then that is not necessarily a bad thing for us. But if the top falls off the conference and we turn into another ACC....that WOULD BE a bad thing.

That's all I'm saying.
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Corey Heatherton was undeterred by the ACC's poor performance in Bowls/CFP and decided to flip to that conference from the Big 10. Ohio St winning last night unfortunately wasn't enough to keep him in Dinkytown.

Bummer.
 

Ope3 said:
Stop with the "rooting" for the Big 10 to "become the MAC nonsense".

You think any of the schools with the alumni base, market size, facility/resource advantages and history will ever be even remotely comparable?

You want to be all proud of the Conference fine. If other Big 10 schools happen to incrementally get knocked down a peg (which some us are rooting for) that isn't going to start some downward spiral towards the MAC, Sun Belt or probably even bigger ones like the ACC or Big 12 as they are currently constructed (for now).



Right now the MAC is currently 1-1 vs Notre Dame this season. Northern Illinois is the only team to defeat the Irish. I'm hoping they extend their perfect record against the Big 10 to 5-0.
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Wait, didn't you say you'd want the other teams in the B1G to get worse so the Gophs would look better?
 

PMWinSTP said:
Wait, didn't you say you'd want the other teams in the B1G to get worse so the Gophs would look better?
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Sure did. Repeatedly. I'm even alluding to in tin the post you're responding to.

Losing some Bowl and CFP games isn't going to jeopardize the Big 10's standing as currently one of the Power 2. Not even remotely.
 


I am all in on the Big 10 winning as many games as possible. Yes. Losing games leads to teams ultimately scheduling Macalester and wondering why there is no betting line at all.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Wait, didn't you say you'd want the other teams in the B1G to get worse so the Gophs would look better?
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Clarification: it's not just about "looking" better. The Gophers also have to get better. I'm certain I have stated that is my desire before.

I should have noted that distinction. My bad.

PMWinSTP said:
Well continue to disagree on that yake. You're sort of moving the goal posts with this post.
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I don't see that as moving the goal posts. I want the other Big 10 teams to get worse. I want the Gophers to get better. That can happen independently from how the other teams are faring against non-Big 10 opponents.

If the rest of the Big 10 in this pipe dream got so bad it was hindering the Gophers SOS to make the CFP, I would re-evaluate based on new circumstances. Cross that bridge if it ever happens.

Kind of doubt that will ever happen. Call it a hunch.
 
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SeaBee_Gopher said:
Do you think spreads are like that moving forward? I don't. Combine this year and last and the SEC bias is going away quickly. They dominated for MANY YEARS, it stands to reason that it would take a couple years for that bias to go away. We all wondered if last year's SEC free national championship and their lack of domination overall was an anomaly. This year confirms it was not.
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The bias is going away based on what? All the talking heads still spout that the conference is the best. It’s never been an argument that OSU or Oregon can’t play within the SEC, it’s that comparatively the conference is the best top to bottom and so their losses should be given more grace
 

Ope3 said:
Corey Heatherton was undeterred by the ACC's poor performance in Bowls/CFP and decided to flip to that conference from the Big 10. Ohio St winning last night unfortunately wasn't enough to keep him in Dinkytown.

Bummer.
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Do you have any idea why he chose to take the Miami job? Think hard.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Wait, didn't you say you'd want the other teams in the B1G to get worse so the Gophs would look better?
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If Ohio State lost their semi-final....their players would leave and the Gophers would beat them next year. Trust me.
 

stocker08 said:
Do you have any idea why he chose to take the Miami job? Think hard.
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We all know the primary reasons why he took the job. Not the point.

We also know ACC stinking in Bowls/CFP was not a deterrent. In fact it may have been viewed as an opportunity.

Or maybe he saw that Ohio St in Columbus is on the schedule for the Gophers in 2025 and decided that was not optimal for future job prospects based on the Buckeyes success in the current CFP. Tongue-in-cheek.
 

Ope3 said:
We all know the primary reasons why he took the job. Not the point.

We also know ACC stinking in Bowls/CFP was not a deterrent. In fact it may have been viewed as an opportunity.

Or maybe he saw that Ohio St in Columbus is on the schedule for the Gophers in 2025 and decided that was not optimal for future job prospects based on the Buckeyes success in the current CFP. Tongue-in-cheek.
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Are you attempting to argue that recruits want to play in worse conferences with worse competition? Because that's a dunderheaded take.

Hetherman took the Miami job because of $$$. Very little trumps that.
 

stocker08 said:
Are you attempting to argue that recruits want to play in worse conferences with worse competition? Because that's a dunderheaded take.

Hetherman took the Miami job because of $$$. Very little trumps that.
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No, I am not saying that.
 

Right now googling the mock 1st round of the NFL draft I see 14 from SEC and 12 from the B1G in the projection. 26 of 32 Picks from the SEC/B1G. It's pretty much a wash between the two conferences.
 

stocker08 said:
Are you attempting to argue that recruits want to play in worse conferences with worse competition? Because that's a dunderheaded take.

Hetherman took the Miami job because of $$$. Very little trumps that.
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I do think people underrate the top jobs of the ACC and Big 12

Certain schools have the money.
If the money is equal and the path is easier some of those jobs are very good
 

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