Arkansas thoughts

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fryguy22 said:
Don, you may digress, but at least you don't regress!
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Well done, fryguy. You, my friend, caught my ploy.

Guys like tinyarch try to sound so smart, when in actuality they come across as dumb. That's ok, tho...been there, done that too.
 

BigGopherFan said:
I think it's going to take some time for Pitino to get his players in the system (obviously). He needs athletic guys with long arms and defensive speed to succeed and right now he has about one guy that fits that mold (Austin Hollins). I don't buy the built-in "too tired" excuse because these guys had 24+ hours to recover and they are 18-22 years old.
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I don't think its exhausting from a physical standpoint, but being looked for as a leader its mentally exhausting as you get off playing hard with syracuse — lose a winnable game — and pump yourself up for a game the following morning and maintain that same intensity / concentration.
 

GuyFawkes said:
Not gonna lie, I am hoping that pitino succeeds, but I am just not a fan of teams that rely to heavily on guards, especially in the B1G. Reminds me too much of last years Illinois team.You will have your moments when your shots are falling but you will also be very inconsistent. Everyone will have a bad shooting night, no matter how good you are, which leads to a lot of problems, especially during tourney time. You need bigs down low that you can rely on when your team is having a bad shooting day. Not a fan of seeing players just chucking up shots (ahem malik). I know this is only his 1st year not his players and what not, but he hasn't exactly picked up a big for the 2014 class, besides martin, and he reminds me a lot of buggs, more a 3 than a 4, and that is the position he wants to play. 2015 is loaded of good bigs that we can potentially get, but it just worries me that those recruits will be put off if the W's don't come from pitino. He will only be "hip" for so long before his resume will actually matter.

Also, the FIU recruit he brought over here with him was a joke. He is not a B1G talent and serves no purpose on this team. I have talked to a lot of people from AAU scene and they are all puzzled that he brought him with. One guy told me he expects pitino to "encourage him" to transfer after the season.

Sorry for being so negative, but I have been very excited with this program for a long time, and with the recent losses and the recruiting news we have had in past few months, it has completely killed my excitement.
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I don't think Pitino himself wants to rely so much on guards, but he inherited a mess of a frontcourt, namely the PF position. And even at center with EE and Mo, they are both below the rim type players with limited offensive skill. He almost snagged Travis at the last minute, and is recruiting bigs like Illikainen, Eli Thomas, and Henry Ellenson for 2015. He knows he needs good big men, his dad's championship winning team is direct evidence with a guy like Gorgui Dieng manning the paint. I definitely think Richard deserves a pass. And he can sell immediate playing time to these recruits. The fact that your excitement is killed because a 1st year coach can't grab big time recruits or have success against teams with superior athletes is a little ridiculous.
 


GuyFawkes said:
Not gonna lie, I am hoping that pitino succeeds, but I am just not a fan of teams that rely to heavily on guards, especially in the B1G. Reminds me too much of last years Illinois team.You will have your moments when your shots are falling but you will also be very inconsistent. Everyone will have a bad shooting night, no matter how good you are, which leads to a lot of problems, especially during tourney time. You need bigs down low that you can rely on when your team is having a bad shooting day. Not a fan of seeing players just chucking up shots (ahem malik). I know this is only his 1st year not his players and what not, but he hasn't exactly picked up a big for the 2014 class, besides martin, and he reminds me a lot of buggs, more a 3 than a 4, and that is the position he wants to play. 2015 is loaded of good bigs that we can potentially get, but it just worries me that those recruits will be put off if the W's don't come from pitino. He will only be "hip" for so long before his resume will actually matter.

Also, the FIU recruit he brought over here with him was a joke. He is not a B1G talent and serves no purpose on this team. I have talked to a lot of people from AAU scene and they are all puzzled that he brought him with. One guy told me he expects pitino to "encourage him" to transfer after the season.

Sorry for being so negative, but I have been very excited with this program for a long time, and with the recent losses and the recruiting news we have had in past few months, it has completely killed my excitement.
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It's not Pitino's fault that he has to rely heavily on guards this year. He didn't build this roster. If you are upset about a lack of post players, you can blame our last coach. He tried to get Reid Travis, but he couldn't quite land him. There were little to no other options in that class for big guys. We're in great shape with Illikainen and he's already been recruiting Elijah Thomas hard. Clearly Pitino values talented big guys. He just got here. Have a little patience....
 

GuyFawkes said:
Not gonna lie, I am hoping that pitino succeeds, but I am just not a fan of teams that rely to heavily on guards, especially in the B1G. Reminds me too much of last years Illinois team.You will have your moments when your shots are falling but you will also be very inconsistent. Everyone will have a bad shooting night, no matter how good you are, which leads to a lot of problems, especially during tourney time. You need bigs down low that you can rely on when your team is having a bad shooting day. Not a fan of seeing players just chucking up shots (ahem malik). I know this is only his 1st year not his players and what not, but he hasn't exactly picked up a big for the 2014 class, besides martin, and he reminds me a lot of buggs, more a 3 than a 4, and that is the position he wants to play. 2015 is loaded of good bigs that we can potentially get, but it just worries me that those recruits will be put off if the W's don't come from pitino. He will only be "hip" for so long before his resume will actually matter.

Also, the FIU recruit he brought over here with him was a joke. He is not a B1G talent and serves no purpose on this team. I have talked to a lot of people from AAU scene and they are all puzzled that he brought him with. One guy told me he expects pitino to "encourage him" to transfer after the season.

Sorry for being so negative, but I have been very excited with this program for a long time, and with the recent losses and the recruiting news we have had in past few months, it has completely killed my excitement.
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You said a lot of things, but let me comment on this. I don't believe Coach P. and staff are anywhere near done recruiting for this year's class. They have one scholarship now and I would guess they come up with 2 more. Not exactly sure who is going to leave, but feel it will become clearer before the B1G starts. He should have pretty much a handpicked group by next season. Also, Martin looks good to me at the 4.
 

GuyFawkes said:
Not gonna lie, I am hoping that pitino succeeds, but I am just not a fan of teams that rely to heavily on guards, especially in the B1G. Reminds me too much of last years Illinois team.You will have your moments when your shots are falling but you will also be very inconsistent. Everyone will have a bad shooting night, no matter how good you are, which leads to a lot of problems, especially during tourney time. You need bigs down low that you can rely on when your team is having a bad shooting day. Not a fan of seeing players just chucking up shots (ahem malik). I know this is only his 1st year not his players and what not, but he hasn't exactly picked up a big for the 2014 class, besides martin, and he reminds me a lot of buggs, more a 3 than a 4, and that is the position he wants to play. 2015 is loaded of good bigs that we can potentially get, but it just worries me that those recruits will be put off if the W's don't come from pitino. He will only be "hip" for so long before his resume will actually matter.

Also, the FIU recruit he brought over here with him was a joke. He is not a B1G talent and serves no purpose on this team. I have talked to a lot of people from AAU scene and they are all puzzled that he brought him with. One guy told me he expects pitino to "encourage him" to transfer after the season.

Sorry for being so negative, but I have been very excited with this program for a long time, and with the recent losses and the recruiting news we have had in past few months, it has completely killed my excitement.
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Not much staying power, eh?
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Wow that was one ugly second half. You could easily see which team had the athletes.

I am disappointed with Hollins x 2 play. Andre looks sluggish, slow and lacks explosion. Austin looks tentative and lacks strength. We need these two to step up and play like seasoned veterans.
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Agree, but not optimistic. They both seem incredibly streaky to me, always have.
 



GuyFawkes said:
Not gonna lie, I am hoping that pitino succeeds, but I am just not a fan of teams that rely to heavily on guards, especially in the B1G. Reminds me too much of last years Illinois team.You will have your moments when your shots are falling but you will also be very inconsistent. Everyone will have a bad shooting night, no matter how good you are, which leads to a lot of problems, especially during tourney time. You need bigs down low that you can rely on when your team is having a bad shooting day. Not a fan of seeing players just chucking up shots (ahem malik). I know this is only his 1st year not his players and what not, but he hasn't exactly picked up a big for the 2014 class, besides martin, and he reminds me a lot of buggs, more a 3 than a 4, and that is the position he wants to play. 2015 is loaded of good bigs that we can potentially get, but it just worries me that those recruits will be put off if the W's don't come from pitino. He will only be "hip" for so long before his resume will actually matter.

Also, the FIU recruit he brought over here with him was a joke. He is not a B1G talent and serves no purpose on this team. I have talked to a lot of people from AAU scene and they are all puzzled that he brought him with. One guy told me he expects pitino to "encourage him" to transfer after the season.

Sorry for being so negative, but I have been very excited with this program for a long time, and with the recent losses and the recruiting news we have had in past few months, it has completely killed my excitement.
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Man, you just started a fire here. Before you know it, you'll be called names. Anybody dare to say anything bad about this coaching staff??? NT and some of these guys thought Richard was going to bring 4-5 star players here right away. They haven't given up yet. They even think that it is Tubby's fault that November has been so cold this year. By the way, Gophers former coach and his new team beat UH that is a very good team.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Man, you just started a fire here. Before you know it, you'll be called names. Anybody dare to say anything bad about this coaching staff??? NT and some of these guys thought Richard was going to bring 4-5 star players here right away. They haven't given up yet. They even think that it is Tubby's fault that November has been so cold this year. By the way, Gophers former coach and his new team beat UH that is a very good team.
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You neglected the, "And your mother wears combat boots," with your pouting post. That would show us.
 

That zone is worthless, so far it is the second coming of Dan Monson, can't win in the B1G playing that unless you have far superior talent which isn't going to happen. We'll see but it looks like a 4-14 year to me, a few wins against he non athletic teams, really have to be on fire to beat any of the better teams because they aren't going to be able to stop them from scoring.
 





I have the game recorded, but think I might skip watching this one for my own mental health. Without having seen the game, I have to believe that some of the struggles of today can be attributed to trying to play an up tempo style twice in less than 24 hours without adequate depth. I think an argument can be made that Pitino trusts all of 5 guys on this roster: Dre, lil Dre, Austin, Elliott and Malik. He plays Oto and Joey because he doesn't have other options at the 4 and we will see how much he trusts Mo as the season moves along. This was a bad loss and potentially very damaging for the Gophers NCAA tournament hopes, but those hopes are completely unrealistic unless Andre Hollins starts playing like a stud. I think the best case scenario for this team was great guard play masking a weak front court enough to sneak in to the Dance. In the two games in Maui, the Gophers have not gotten that great play on the perimeter.

I do think the doom and gloom for the entire season is a bit overdone at this point. The Gophers played Syracuse tough (tougher than Cal) without playing a great game. This tournament performance certainly hurts, but there were some reasons to be encouraged just 24 hours ago. I don't see why we need to assume the performance against Arkansas is the norm any more than we should expect the Gophers to consistently compete with teams like Syracuse this year.
 

We shot our wad against 'Cuse and were flat. It's not an excuse. Arkansas played yesterday too. Anderson made better adjustments at half-time and they blitzed us. Matheiu has to avoid these stretches where he's just out of control. Dre Hollins just hasn't had it the last couple days either.

The win at Richmond looms big now. And the FSU game is huge. They need to win it for the non-conference to at least not be an anchor to their NCAA hopes. Obviously they must avoid a train-wreck loss to Chaminade first.
 

GuyFawkes said:
Sorry for being so negative, but I have been very excited with this program for a long time, and with the recent losses and the recruiting news we have had in past few months, it has completely killed my excitement.
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Buh-bye!!! Go Texas Tech!!
 

howeda7 said:
We shot our wad against 'Cuse and were flat. It's not an excuse. Arkansas played yesterday too. Anderson made better adjustments at half-time and they blitzed us. Matheiu has to avoid these stretches where he's just out of control. Dre Hollins just hasn't had it the last couple days either.

The win at Richmond looms big now. And the FSU game is huge. They need to win it for the non-conference to at least not be an anchor to their NCAA hopes. Obviously they must avoid a train-wreck loss to Chaminade first.
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I'm been pretty pleased with Matheiu, but I think adjusting to the speed of the game is something that we will continue to see for quite a while yet. Big jump from a JUCO to the starting PG in the B1G. He's another one we just need to have patience with.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
By the way, Gophers former coach and his new team beat UH that is a very good team.
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A very good team? :rolleyes: Really? On what basis? Oh, I see. They have impressive home wins over Lehigh (1-3), Howard (1-5), UTSA (1-5), and Texas State (0-5) and a road win at UTPA (3-4). Let's see....efficiency ranking of 161 at Pomeroy....is that your definition of a "very good" team?

Tubby's last few recruiting classes were heading downhill. And stating the obvious, no team does well in the Big Ten with an entire bench full of 3 star (or worse) recruits. Just look at Penn State and Nebraska in recent years as proof.

I am encouraged with what I have seen from Pitino so far. I think his team attacked the Syracuse zone better than any Tubby Smith team would have. But hard to say if his style will work in the Big Ten if he doesn't land some better recruits. Role player type recruits are important, but I fear that if he strikes out recruiting with next year's class, his stay here may be quite short with few conference wins.
 

howieramone said:
I'm been pretty pleased with Matheiu, but I think adjusting to the speed of the game is something that we will continue to see for quite a while yet. Big jump from a JUCO to the starting PG in the B1G. He's another one we just need to have patience with.
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He's the second coming of Kevin Clark. Constantly going 120 mph. I can accept there will be some turnovers as a result, but it has to kept somewhat under control. You can't throw 100 mph fastballs at Mo Walker. That's a turnover 90% of the time.
 

GibsonSG said:
A very good team? :rolleyes: Really? On what basis? Oh, I see. They have impressive home wins over Lehigh (1-3), Howard (1-5), UTSA (1-5), and Texas State (0-5) and a road win at UTPA (3-4). Let's see....efficiency ranking of 161 at Pomeroy....is that your definition of a "very good" team?

Tubby's last few recruiting classes were heading downhill. And stating the obvious, no team does well in the Big Ten with an entire bench full of 3 star (or worse) recruits. Just look at Penn State and Nebraska in recent years as proof.

I am encouraged with what I have seen from Pitino so far. I think his team attacked the Syracuse zone better than any Tubby Smith team would have. But hard to say if his style will work in the Big Ten if he doesn't land some better recruits. Role player type recruits are important, but I fear that if he strikes out recruiting with next year's class, his stay here may be quite short with few conference wins.
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Totally agree on Smith's last few recruiting classes. There are virtually no players in their first couple years in the program that are program builders. I would say that Hollins, Hollins, and Elliot are the three on the roster that are good B10 caliber players.
 

I wouldn't go this far. We've only lost two games and were competitive with Syracuse for the entire game and for half a game against Arkansas with less than 24 hours rest. I don't see us being over .500 in the B1G, but we'll pull out some fun wins, especially at the Barn. The lack of extraordinary athletes was exposed, but that doesn't mean Pitino can't make adjustments and play to the strength of the kids he currently has to work with. Clearly this team is a work in progress as they adjust to a new coach (we wouldn't expect a B1G championship from Jerry Kill in the first year of his coaching and we shouldn't expect it from Pitino either). What we should see is incremental improvement in the team overall throughout the season. This team will get better over the season (something we aren't familiar with by the way). We will find a way to win games we shouldn't win. Enjoy the ride. Give the kid a chance to work with a group of players that he never knew until last spring. In other words...step away from the ledge...it will be alright.

jovs said:
That zone is worthless, so far it is the second coming of Dan Monson, can't win in the B1G playing that unless you have far superior talent which isn't going to happen. We'll see but it looks like a 4-14 year to me, a few wins against he non athletic teams, really have to be on fire to beat any of the better teams because they aren't going to be able to stop them from scoring.
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Remember when everyone (including me) said Gopher football wouldn't win another big 10 game after Iowa/Michigan debacles ... That was fun.

Point being, it's one game in year one. Gotta let this play out a bit.
 

scher215 said:
Remember when everyone (including me) said Gopher football wouldn't win another big 10 game after Iowa/Michigan debacles ... That was fun.

Point being, it's one game in year one. Gotta let this play out a bit.
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Agreed. I've watched two games this year--not the Arkansas game--and in my opinion this is a better team than last year's team in terms of basketball skills and athletic ability. The new kids Pitino has brought in are great 'adds'. Oto actually looks like a basketball player this year. Last year we got into the tournament. I suspect we will this year as well.
 

From the box scores:


VS Syracuse: Hollins, Andre 2-9(FG) 1-5(3pt) 6-7(FT) 0(asst) 3(TO)

VS Arkansas: Hollins, Andre 5-13(FG) 2-7(3pt) 2-3(FT) 2(asst) 4(TO)
 

station19 said:
From the box scores:


VS Syracuse: Hollins, Andre 2-9(FG) 1-5(3pt) 6-7(FT) 0(asst) 3(TO)

VS Arkansas: Hollins, Andre 5-13(FG) 2-7(3pt) 2-3(FT) 2(asst) 4(TO)
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Yikes. Those are two pretty rough stat lines for Andre. Obviously we know he can play big against good teams and we really needed it the last two days.

Go Gophers!!
 

doctor j said:
Agreed. I've watched two games this year--not the Arkansas game--and in my opinion this is a better team than last year's team in terms of basketball skills and athletic ability. The new kids Pitino has brought in are great 'adds'. Oto actually looks like a basketball player this year. Last year we got into the tournament. I suspect we will this year as well.
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This team is not even close to the level of last year's squad in terms of basketball skills and athletic ability. Go back and watch our wins against Illinois, Michigan State, Florida State and Indiana last year and then watch the games against Syracuse and Arkansas this year and there is a glaring lack of athleticism and skill up front. The guards are pretty much the same, but we took a huge step back in the front line and are going to pay dearly for it this year. We have morphed into a finesse, jump shooting team and much like Illinois last year, when we are hot we can beat teams we should not, but we will also lose a lot of games we should not when we cannot hit the outside shot and our defense is atrocious.

My biggest concern is that we take a huge step backwards this year and then recruiting suffers. Pitino has a bad class this year (please, no excuses or justifications, it is not a good class and probably ranks near the bottom of the B1G) and if we lay a huge egg this year in our games I do not see recruiting getting any better next year.
 

scher215 said:
Remember when everyone (including me) said Gopher football wouldn't win another big 10 game after Iowa/Michigan debacles ... That was fun.

Point being, it's one game in year one. Gotta let this play out a bit.
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Agreed, though I think that some trends are becoming established. Rebounds in traffic in the B1G season will be infrequent, especially if they are in zone defenses which make it more difficult to box out. There will be some stretches of exciting basketball that will make Williams noisy, but they won't be sustainable. Pitino has little confidence in Wally and absolutely no confidence in Buggs. Buggs is the only player on the gophers who looks like the guys on the Arkansas team. He obviously doesn't play like the guys on the Arkansas team. I turned the game off with 8 minutes left yesterday and Buggs hadn't seen the floor in a fast paced, second of back to back games against a team of "long, athletic" players.

As I've said, I think that the gophers will upset some people at home and the games will be a lot more fun than under Tubbby, but the last two games are probably indicative of the caliber of opponent that we are going to see starting in January. I also hope that Pitino is able to find a foundation player for the fourth scholarship for 2014 because otherwise the talent level doesn't project to be better next year.
 

Still no mention of Mav and 0 minutes the last two games?
 

GibsonSG said:
A very good team? :rolleyes: Really? On what basis? Oh, I see. They have impressive home wins over Lehigh (1-3), Howard (1-5), UTSA (1-5), and Texas State (0-5) and a road win at UTPA (3-4). Let's see....efficiency ranking of 161 at Pomeroy....is that your definition of a "very good" team?

Tubby's last few recruiting classes were heading downhill. And stating the obvious, no team does well in the Big Ten with an entire bench full of 3 star (or worse) recruits. Just look at Penn State and Nebraska in recent years as proof.

I am encouraged with what I have seen from Pitino so far. I think his team attacked the Syracuse zone better than any Tubby Smith team would have. But hard to say if his style will work in the Big Ten if he doesn't land some better recruits. Role player type recruits are important, but I fear that if he strikes out recruiting with next year's class, his stay here may be quite short with few conference wins.
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Have you heard of the players that are coming next year? They are hardly 3-star. It is hard to recruit here even if Cal was the coach.
 

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