Anything positive you can think of?

Interesting. It seems like you always used to say that of a coach doesn’t finish in top 4 of conference by year 4, they would never do it.

Also glad to see your activity here increasing of late. Need more neutral assessments.

I had the same reaction that you did. In fact, I even thought the contention was if you couldn't compete at the top end of the conference by the end of year three then you had hired the wrong coach. I wonder why such a departure from his previous take?
 

I'm also a big proponent of stellar defense. Two years should be enough time to show some signs that it's trending in the right direction, IMO. Heck, I think it was troubling that it wasn't better in year one.

I keep going back to Steve Pikiell and Rutgers - they lost a lot of games, but the underlying defensive numbers were clearly indicating improvement (from year one with a team that was terrible on defense before he got there).

If it does not get significantly better for Minnesota next year - by which I'm defining as a top 100 defense (which is a very low bar) - he should not be retained.
While I agree with you on point, remember that the only returning player from last year that played large minutes in Ben’s system is Battle. 4 new starters, so to speak are in it for the first time. I will agree however that I think the defense should be better. We need to be better on the ball. Are we capable, it appears not, but I’m hoping for some tweaks that will improve it during the brunt of the rest of the season.
 

How can we tell the culture is better? We have a strictly losing culture. They are heck of nice guys, but they really are good are losing basketball games. (Thinking of what Seinfield would say “great guys / great culture”).
The product we see doesn’t show it except for the guys not quitting on games. People around the program can attest to my point. Believe it or not is your choice. It’s more than being “nice” guys although this staff does put a premium on character.
 

The product we see doesn’t show it except for the guys not quitting on games. People around the program can attest to my point. Believe it or not is your choice. It’s more than being “nice” guys although this staff does put a premium on character.
Sadly at this level, results are required. They don’t do participation awards. **assuming that there is an ncaa equivalent to the NFL man of the year award, it would be cool for a gopher to win that, but I’d trade that for actual results.
 

5 years is fine but have to correct you. Nothing good was RETAINED. There was talent here. A key player on a top 5 team. A 7ft’er averaging 12/5 in 22 minutes in a P6 conference. A guard averaging 17ppg for a top 25 team. A guard playing 28 minutes per game for a 9-2 team receiving votes.

Richard needed to go. But talent was here. It wasn’t retained. And it hasn’t been replaced.

100% true. No way Ben Johnson walked in here as a first time coach and thought he should replace the entire roster in April. There were players on Pitino's last team that could have provided at least some continuity. Then he doubled down in his first recruiting class and recruited primarily one year players. Whether you (general) think that is a good approach or not, that is completely on him. Roster construction is one of a coach's primary responsibilities. The "nothing he could do" about the roster conversation is misguided. That isn't to say he will be a failure long term.
 


100% true. No way Ben Johnson walked in here as a first time coach and thought he should replace the entire roster in April. There were players on Pitino's last team that could have provided at least some continuity. Then he doubled down in his first recruiting class and recruited primarily one year players. Whether you (general) think that is a good approach or not, that is completely on him. Roster construction is one of a coach's primary responsibilities. The "nothing he could do" about the roster conversation is misguided. That isn't to say he will be a failure long term.
I guarantee you when he took the job he knew the turnover would be massive and the only ones really asked to come back were Gabe, Ihnen, Johnson, Curry (as a GA initially), and Both. The others were either gone for sure or not welcomed back. he landed 2 of 5 and it’s fine to be critical of that if you’d like but it’s not a terrible percentage for a locker room that was that bad. Indiana for example had a decent locker room and was able to keep a bunch of their guys.
 



I had the same reaction that you did. In fact, I even thought the contention was if you couldn't compete at the top end of the conference by the end of year three then you had hired the wrong coach. I wonder why such a departure from his previous take?
Said if you could not contend by year 5 or 6 that you do not win the conference or get to a final 4. The previous regime was historically bad over the 8 seasons. Your right in my opinion that it does not mean this was the best replacement or even equal but that change was beyond necessary.
 



Sadly at this level, results are required. They don’t do participation awards. **assuming that there is an ncaa equivalent to the NFL man of the year award, it would be cool for a gopher to win that, but I’d trade that for actual results.
It’s not sad at all. I’m not advocating for participation trophies or making any excuses. Just stating some facts that I know.
We all want more win. Some think it’ll happen quickly because of the new landscape and feel shortcuts can happen, others are more patient because they knew what a wreck it had become and want it done right. Fact is we will know more in March and next season when Ben is still here. Hopefully the identity is more prevalent on the court.
 

It’s not sad at all. I’m not advocating for participation trophies or making any excuses. Just stating some facts that I know.
We all want more win. Some think it’ll happen quickly because of the new landscape and feel shortcuts can happen, others are more patient because they knew what a wreck it had become and want it done right. Fact is we will know more in March and next season when Ben is still here. Hopefully the identity is more prevalent on the court.
I would even be more ok with losing if they lost in a fun way / played a fun brand of basketball
 

Said if you could not contend by year 5 or 6 that you do not win the conference or get to a final 4. The previous regime was historically bad over the 8 seasons. Your right in my opinion that it does not mean this was the best replacement or even equal but that change was beyond necessary.

Gotcha.....thanks for your response/clarification. Good to see you posting again. 👍
 

I don’t think Built is advocating 5 years of weakling Wednesdays. I’m betting he thinking more along the lines of by years 4 and 5 there better be tangible progress and probably no weakling Wednesday in either of those years. What if part of Ben’s sell to the U was the exact process that Built is talking about and the U is okay with it. No body knows what went on inside that interview room. For all anybody knows, he has been given a timeline of that sort so you might just have to hold on for the ride, and see how it comes out.
Here is the question (Loblaw asked) Built answered:
Honest question, how many years would you give Ben if we still in the bottom 2-3 spots of the Big 10?
 




Said if you could not contend by year 5 or 6 that you do not win the conference or get to a final 4. The previous regime was historically bad over the 8 seasons. Your right in my opinion that it does not mean this was the best replacement or even equal but that change was beyond necessary.
This is a great post. Replacement was necessary. It doesn’t mean this replacement was equal, worse or better. Johnson deserves some time and I think he’ll be given it. Especially if recruiting stays above average
 



I would even be more ok with losing if they lost in a fun way / played a fun brand of basketball
I find winning regardless of how it’s done to be fun. Typically it’s about matching a style to the players or vise versa. Also means buy in and work towards said system. My only disappointment with this staff is like some others have mentioned. I expected us to defend better. Metrically we have been terrible. Year 1 was a depth thing, year 2 is a youth thing. If it’s not better next year then I’ll probably be off the wagon.
 

I find winning regardless of how it’s done to be fun. Typically it’s about matching a style to the players or vise versa. Also means buy in and work towards said system. My only disappointment with this staff is like some others have mentioned. I expected us to defend better. Metrically we have been terrible. Year 1 was a depth thing, year 2 is a youth thing. If it’s not better next year then I’ll probably be off the wagon.
...well... it's fun until you get caught cheating, which has been the m. o. of Gopher basketball history.
We need a culture of winning without cheating and I am hopeful for this, but patience is needed.
 


...well... it's fun until you get caught cheating, which has been the m. o. of Gopher basketball history.
We need a culture of winning without cheating and I am hopeful for this, but patience is needed.
Good call, I should’ve clarified to mean playing style. I do not want to cheer for a team who cheats. Agreed on the patience
 



To be clear, the only real cheating nowadays is academic, right? (Since paying players via NIL is part of the game)
There is still rules with NIL although they don’t seemed to be enforced. I prefer the idea of guys coming here and earning their bag with their play.
 

Michigan lost to Central Michigan (a team we beat). Wisconsin only beat Western Michigan by 10 (a team we beat by 1). Gophers just need to put a complete game together. Cut down the turnovers and grab the rebounds. The kids are going to figure this out.
Why does anyone care what Michigan does?
 

Said if you could not contend by year 5 or 6 that you do not win the conference or get to a final 4. The previous regime was historically bad over the 8 seasons. Your right in my opinion that it does not mean this was the best replacement or even equal but that change was beyond necessary.
Just an observation. Pitino is coaching right now. For New Mexico.
Every post you mention the record of the previous coach. No need to repeat the history as most here know it well.
Johnson's team looks horrendous thus far. Horrible. All facets of the game.
No need to constantly bring up Pitino and his failure at Mn.
 

Sean Miller in under 1 year brings the program back…it’s shocking what a real coach can do
Xavier was 23-13 and won the NIT the year before Miller took over.

Regardless, that has absolutely nothing to do with Coach Johnson's attempt for a ground-up rebuild here.
 

We shall
I guarantee you when he took the job he knew the turnover would be massive and the only ones really asked to come back were Gabe, Ihnen, Johnson, Curry (as a GA initially), and Both. The others were either gone for sure or not welcomed back. he landed 2 of 5 and it’s fine to be critical of that if you’d like but it’s not a terrible percentage for a locker room that was that bad. Indiana for example had a decent locker room and was able to keep a bunch of their guys.
We shall see at the conclusion of this season if players choose to leave. I think the culture term is grossly overused and doesn't always mean much.
Winning makes everything better and almost everyone happy.
 






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