Anything positive you can think of?

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golfing18now said:
Carr was the best guard we have had here in awhile. Oturu was the best big man we have had here in awhile. They have had other nice players in Murphy/Mason/Coffey/a few others. I always thought that Pitino had better players than his results would suggest. But maybe it just speaks to how difficult this conference really is.
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Coffey was better than Carr. Led a team to more wins and was a player NBA scouts advised to go pro (2nd round draft grade). If NBA scouts gave Carr a positive eval, he would’ve gone. They told him to go back and show some ability to manage a game and play some defense. Carr chose Beard which was lucky (Beard wanted him) and has improved and taken the coaching. Remember he got benched last year and has grown a ton.
 

Yes. patience to the process, playing several young development players. Greatest disappointment by far is the lack of defensive identity. Still way to early to call the hire a disaster. We gave the last guy 8 years of a historically bad conference record. this guy started with nothing.
 

builtbadgers said:
Yes. patience to the process, playing several young development players. Greatest disappointment by far is the lack of defensive identity. Still way to early to call the hire a disaster. We gave the last guy 8 years of a historically bad conference record. this guy started with nothing.
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I don’t think many realize or accept how bad the culture had deteriorated the last two years. Agree the lack of defensive identity is my largest concern/disappointment too. While our positioning has improved, it’s still not good and we don’t finish defensive possessions (rebounding). I expected more grit on that end while the offensive philosophy switch to chucking it up to a more slower grinding offense would take time.
 

builtbadgers said:
Yes. patience to the process, playing several young development players. Greatest disappointment by far is the lack of defensive identity. Still way to early to call the hire a disaster. We gave the last guy 8 years of a historically bad conference record. this guy started with nothing.
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Winning 36% of our Big Ten games is starting to sound pretty fricking good.

Honest question, how many years would you give Ben if we still in the bottom 2-3 spots of the Big 10?
 



Holy Man said:
I remember posters accusing him of being a ball hog. Everyone has a story and Carrs is that until he got to Texas he had very little talent around him and his teams best chance to win was him dropping 30.
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Allen Iverson was one of the best passers in the NBA but when his options were to shoot or pass to Eric Snow…he chose to shoot a lot.
 






builtbadgers said:
would give ben 5 years. This was a job where nothing good was left.
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5 years is fine but have to correct you. Nothing good was RETAINED. There was talent here. A key player on a top 5 team. A 7ft’er averaging 12/5 in 22 minutes in a P6 conference. A guard averaging 17ppg for a top 25 team. A guard playing 28 minutes per game for a 9-2 team receiving votes.

Richard needed to go. But talent was here. It wasn’t retained. And it hasn’t been replaced.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
5 years is fine but have to correct you. Nothing good was RETAINED. There was talent here. A key player on a top 5 team. A 7ft’er averaging 12/5 in 22 minutes in a P6 conference. A guard averaging 17ppg for a top 25 team. A guard playing 28 minutes per game for a 9-2 team receiving votes.

Richard needed to go. But talent was here. It wasn’t retained. And it hasn’t been replaced.
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The “talent” also couldn’t work together and the locker room was a mess to the point where a break up was needed. They couldn’t retain Brandon Johnson, Gabe, and to an extent Both. The rest didn’t want to be retained (Carr, Mash, or Robbins) or needed to go (Carr here too, Williams, Mitchell, or anyone else). The talent hasn’t been replaced, but the culture is better and when the talent develops, it won’t collapse like that group did
 

Spaulding!No! said:
As did I. I assumed it was Pitino having no game plan for each opponent. Now I see what having no game plan really looks like.
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Oh there is absolutely no doubt that you bashed Carr daily.

And Pitino.

And Haskins.

And if Ben makes the Sweet-16 in 2 years...you will still rag on his overall record daily.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
The “talent” also couldn’t work together and the locker room was a mess to the point where a break up was needed. They couldn’t retain Brandon Johnson, Gabe, and to an extent Both. The rest didn’t want to be retained (Carr, Mash, or Robbins) or needed to go (Carr here too, Williams, Mitchell, or anyone else). The talent hasn’t been replaced, but the culture is better and when the talent develops, it won’t collapse like that group did
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How can we tell the culture is better? We have a strictly losing culture. They are heck of nice guys, but they really are good are losing basketball games. (Thinking of what Seinfield would say “great guys / great culture”).
 



Gopherfan84 said:
The “talent” also couldn’t work together and the locker room was a mess to the point where a break up was needed. They couldn’t retain Brandon Johnson, Gabe, and to an extent Both. The rest didn’t want to be retained (Carr, Mash, or Robbins) or needed to go (Carr here too, Williams, Mitchell, or anyone else). The talent hasn’t been replaced, but the culture is better and when the talent develops, it won’t collapse like that group did
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I’m not saying it all could/should have been retained but it’s disingenuous to say there was no talent here. I forgot about Brandon Johnson. He was solid for DePaul last year.
 

builtbadgers said:
would give ben 5 years. This was a job where nothing good was left.
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There’s no way a coach gets 5 years of weakling Wednesday finishes in this era. Especially if the underlying metrics don’t improve to something resembling a high major program. Lots of examples of turnarounds with near total roster rebuilds at other schools.
 


formerlybis said:
There’s no way a coach gets 5 years of weakling Wednesday finishes in this era. Especially if the underlying metrics don’t improve to something resembling a high major program. Lots of examples of turnarounds with near total roster rebuilds at other schools.
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I don’t think Built is advocating 5 years of weakling Wednesdays. I’m betting he thinking more along the lines of by years 4 and 5 there better be tangible progress and probably no weakling Wednesday in either of those years. What if part of Ben’s sell to the U was the exact process that Built is talking about and the U is okay with it. No body knows what went on inside that interview room. For all anybody knows, he has been given a timeline of that sort so you might just have to hold on for the ride, and see how it comes out.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
How did Xavier turn it around in a year. Asking for a papist friend.
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I don’t know, I don’t watch nor follow them. All I’m saying is the plan that was outlined in the interview may not be the plan you or anybody else like but it still may be the plan.
 


Outsider said:
I don’t think Built is advocating 5 years of weakling Wednesdays. I’m betting he thinking more along the lines of by years 4 and 5 there better be tangible progress and probably no weakling Wednesday in either of those years. What if part of Ben’s sell to the U was the exact process that Built is talking about and the U is okay with it. No body knows what went on inside that interview room. For all anybody knows, he has been given a timeline of that sort so you might just have to hold on for the ride, and see how it comes out.
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Well, he should have said that, then. I think the 4th year is not even close to a given if they are this terrible 3 years in a row. It would be AD malpractice to retain him at that point.

An 0-20 would spark a legitimate conversation about whether he even deserves a 3rd year.

Also, just because you think the previous coach was historically bad and you were glad to see him go does not mean that this coach isn't even worse just because you're friends with him. Get either offense or defense into the top 100. It's not a high bar.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
How can we tell the culture is better? We have a strictly losing culture. They are heck of nice guys, but they really are good are losing basketball games. (Thinking of what Seinfield would say “great guys / great culture”).
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"Tommies Butthole" wants you to post there. They need more patrons.
 

formerlybis said:
Well, he should have said that, then. I think the 4th year is not even close to a given if they are this terrible 3 years in a row. It would be AD malpractice to retain him at that point.

An 0-20 would spark a legitimate conversation about whether he even deserves a 3rd year.

Also, just because you think the previous coach was historically bad and you were glad to see him go does not mean that this coach isn't even worse just because you're friends with him. Get either offense or defense into the top 100. It's not a high bar.
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You need to read other posts then. Built has already said he is disappointed with the defense this year and he was expecting it to be better. If you have been in here long enough you would see he is a big proponent of stellar defense. It’s year two, at least show a bit of patience.
 



Outsider said:
You need to read other posts then. Built has already said he is disappointed with the defense this year and he was expecting it to be better. If you have been in here long enough you would see he is a big proponent of stellar defense. It’s year two, at least show a bit of patience.
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I'm also a big proponent of stellar defense. Two years should be enough time to show some signs that it's trending in the right direction, IMO. Heck, I think it was troubling that it wasn't better in year one.

I keep going back to Steve Pikiell and Rutgers - they lost a lot of games, but the underlying defensive numbers were clearly indicating improvement (from year one with a team that was terrible on defense before he got there).

If it does not get significantly better for Minnesota next year - by which I'm defining as a top 100 defense (which is a very low bar) - he should not be retained.
 

Michigan lost to Central Michigan (a team we beat). Wisconsin only beat Western Michigan by 10 (a team we beat by 1). Gophers just need to put a complete game together. Cut down the turnovers and grab the rebounds. The kids are going to figure this out.
 

builtbadgers said:
would give ben 5 years. This was a job where nothing good was left.
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Interesting. It seems like you always used to say that of a coach doesn’t finish in top 4 of conference by year 4, they would never do it.

Also glad to see your activity here increasing of late. Need more neutral assessments.
 

MennoSota said:
Michigan lost to Central Michigan (a team we beat). Wisconsin only beat Western Michigan by 10 (a team we beat by 1). Gophers just need to put a complete game together. Cut down the turnovers and grab the rebounds. The kids are going to figure this out.
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And make free throws.
 


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