Andy Katz: "Tubby has done wonders with this group without Mbakwe."

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Cayman said:
There are plenty of other people I would put on the extreme "Tubby can do no wrong" end of the spectrum before gophersiniowa, me among them. I think he's quite a reasonable poster, not the guy who's going to tell everyone how wrong they were about Tubby after last night's win over Northwestern, and he's definitely not the guy whose "excessive optimism" sense is going to tingle and cause him to tell everyone to stop celebrating the win because Tubby's a terrible coach and we still suck and the future is bleak.
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+19
 

CrocShots said:
Tubby has 7 of our total 13 big ten tournament wins. That's cray.
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The BTT has only been around since 1998.

1999-2006 were some of the darkest days of the program.

This should not be "crazy" at all.
 

For those of you who are math challenged:


Five (number of years Tubby has been coach) divided by 15 (number of years the BTT has been in existence) = .333

Seven (number of BTT wins under Tubby) divided by 13 (number of total Minnesota BTT wins) = .538


In other words, Tubby has been coaching the team for 1/3 of the total BTT appearances, but has over half of the wins. He has won more than his fair share. That's what's "crazy" about it. If Tubby doesn't get to use injuries and transfers as an excuse, Monson doesn't get to use sanctions as an excuse either.
 

I find it ironic that the word 'sanction' can be used either in a positive or negative way.
 

If you think Tubby did wonders that's fine but don't act the opinion of a coach apologist means anything.
 


dpodoll68 said:
For those of you who are math challenged:


Five (number of years Tubby has been coach) divided by 15 (number of years the BTT has been in existence) = .333

Seven (number of BTT wins under Tubby) divided by 13 (number of total Minnesota BTT wins) = .538


In other words, Tubby has been coaching the team for 1/3 of the total BTT appearances, but has over half of the wins. He has won more than his fair share. That's what's "crazy" about it. If Tubby doesn't get to use injuries and transfers as an excuse, Monson doesn't get to use sanctions as an excuse either.
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No doubt, coaches are hired and fired based on major conference tournament records all the time...
 

This is Andy Katz's opinion, not the concrete truth. Why are people treating it like that??
 


goldengophers said:
People love receiving encouraging words from the national media, it somehow validates things.
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Because people assume the national media is
More objective and further reaching than local fans and local media.

It means more, IMO, if ESPN says you made a great coaching hire for example than if the Red Wing Herald says it. (no idea if the red wing herald is a real paper, just an example)
 



BigGopherFan said:
This is Andy Katz's opinion, not the concrete truth. Why are people treating it like that??
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I think it's the concrete truth. Agree with him 100%.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I've seen a few people write this the past few years and I don't really know how people come to that conclusion. What about him is lazy? He seems to get out to scout players a lot. He's recruited many top-level talent. I'm not saying you are wrong, but what about his recruiting is lazy at times?

I agree that "done wonders" is a little too strong probably. There have been things he hasn't done very well that have been discussed many times here (substation patterns, inbound plays, etc.). But there certainly are some things I think he has done well. If people are going to rip Tubby for the lack of development of some players, then they also have to acknowledge that guys like Austin Hollins and Rodney Williams have made strides this year. Hollins' shot and confidence is light years ahead of last season.

You also have to at least give him some credit for bringing in Julian Welch. I don't know about the rest of you, but he has exceeded my expectations. There's not too many guards out there who shoot 48% from the field. He's not a big time superstar or anything but he's been pretty good for us this year.
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I like Juilian. Think he will be a key cog next year.

I tend to disagree with your sentiment that he deserves a ton of credit for Austin and Rodney. Austin is the son of a very decent coach who wasn't a bad player. He had offers from Memphis, Arkansas, Oregon State, etc. He was a good player coming out of HS.

Rodney was helped more by the Trevor injury more than in anything, IMO. He is quicker than most PF's and that allows him to play near the rim where he excels. His shot is still not good.


As for the lazy recruiter part: This even goes back to his Kentucky years. He won't work super hard to get the big recruit. It is of my opinion, and many others, that he thinks that if you have to go overboard to convince a player to come here than the player probably does not want to be here in the long run. He would much rather have a 4 year player rather than a 2 year "rental". Going to games is the easy part. It's the rest of the process that takes work.

If you look at his recruits than continually got lower rated at UK. The same thing is happening here.
 

Whathavewedone said:
I don't think Tubby is a bad recruiter. I just think he is a lazy recruiter at times.
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Little hint for you. Not all bad recruiters are lazy recruiters, but all lazy recruiters ARE
bad recruiters.[/QUOTE]


Meh.. Not necessarily true.
 

panolo said:
I like Juilian. Think he will be a key cog next year.

I tend to disagree with your sentiment that he deserves a ton of credit for Austin and Rodney. Austin is the son of a very decent coach who wasn't a bad player. He had offers from Memphis, Arkansas, Oregon State, etc. He was a good player coming out of HS.

Rodney was helped more by the Trevor injury more than in anything, IMO. He is quicker than most PF's and that allows him to play near the rim where he excels. His shot is still not good.


As for the lazy recruiter part: This even goes back to his Kentucky years. He won't work super hard to get the big recruit. It is of my opinion, and many others, that he thinks that if you have to go overboard to convince a player to come here than the player probably does not want to be here in the long run. He would much rather have a 4 year player rather than a 2 year "rental". Going to games is the easy part. It's the rest of the process that takes work.

If you look at his recruits than continually got lower rated at UK. The same thing is happening here.
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It's hard to really say, but I think he at least deserves some credit. That's the point I was trying to make. Some people like to put all the blame on Tubby for guys like Sampson and Iverson not developing, but then don't want to give him any credit for other guys who do improve (not you specifically).

As for the recruiting thing, you may be right. I was just wondering where that is coming from. It's impossible for us to know all that since we don't see what's going on behind the scenes.

he thinks that if you have to go overboard to convince a player to come here than the player probably does not want to be here in the long run.
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I don't think this part is being lazy and don't necessarily disagree with it. Coach Kill is kinda taking that approach as well. If someone is unsure if they want to be here long term and be committed, then it might be better to look elsewhere. Unless, of course, its a talent like Tyus Jones.

He would much rather have a 4 year player rather than a 2 year "rental".
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It seems like Tubby went pretty hard at Cory Joseph and did at least try to land Barnes. Tyus is expected to be a "rental" type of player as well.

If you look at his recruits than continually got lower rated at UK. The same thing is happening here.
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The first two years were great classes. The past few haven't been as highly ranked but I don't think they've gone down so much as they've just plateau-ed.
 



The only issues I have with Tubby's recruiting are the attrition rates and some of the late signees.

I definitely put some of that on Tubby. However, the talent level would have been extraordinary if we kept everyone here, it would have been one of the most talented teams MN has has ever had (Mbakwe - White - Williams - Joseph - Cobbs).

For me, recruiting, he has brought in enough talent to be really good here, for whatever reasons those players just left.

As far as developing players...
If Tubby gets blame for Ralph, he deserves credit for Austin Hollins and Rodney Williams.
 

GophersInIowa said:
It's hard to really say, but I think he at least deserves some credit. That's the point I was trying to make. Some people like to put all the blame on Tubby for guys like Sampson and Iverson not developing, but then don't want to give him any credit for other guys who do improve (not you specifically).

As for the recruiting thing, you may be right. I was just wondering where that is coming from. It's impossible for us to know all that since we don't see what's going on behind the scenes.



I don't think this part is being lazy and don't necessarily disagree with it. Coach Kill is kinda taking that approach as well. If someone is unsure if they want to be here long term and be committed, then it might be better to look elsewhere. Unless, of course, its a talent like Tyus Jones.



It seems like Tubby went pretty hard at Cory Joseph and did at least try to land Barnes. Tyus is expected to be a "rental" type of player as well.



The first two years were great classes. The past few haven't been as highly ranked but I don't think they've gone down so much as they've just plateau-ed.
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Could be very true. Hopefully guys like Buggs and Wally are diamonds. I know Andre Hollins looked great the last few games and he was not that heavily recruited until later in his HS career.

I think FB and BB recruiting are a little different. You are going to get more years outta of a FB recruit even if they are a stallion but I understand your point.

I just hope we get competitive again and next year we are arguing because we deserved a higher seed in the NCAA's rather than about how poorly we finished.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
As far as developing players...
If Tubby gets blame for Ralph, he deserves credit for Austin Hollins and Rodney Williams.
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I think Ralph's development is more on the player than the coach TBH.
 




dpodoll68 said:
For those of you who are math challenged:


Five (number of years Tubby has been coach) divided by 15 (number of years the BTT has been in existence) = .333

Seven (number of BTT wins under Tubby) divided by 13 (number of total Minnesota BTT wins) = .538


In other words, Tubby has been coaching the team for 1/3 of the total BTT appearances, but has over half of the wins. He has won more than his fair share. That's what's "crazy" about it. If Tubby doesn't get to use injuries and transfers as an excuse, Monson doesn't get to use sanctions as an excuse either.
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Boom!
 




I really don't think people should be down on Tubby. He's doing as good as just about any basketball coach can at Minnesota with the hand he's been dealt the past couple of years.
 

NurumbiCongo said:
What is with the gold rush of post from you? Lose your job, lady is always gone (stepping out)? It's too much main.
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GophersInIowa said:
huh?
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My best guess on a translation: Why have you been posting so much? Did you lose your job? Is your wife/girlfriend frequently away? You are posting too much.

As to my thoughts, I don't think Tubby has done wonders with our Mbakwe-less roster. I was hoping we'd do a little better than this, but these last couple games have gone well, Michigan just barely won, Andre Hollins is a beast, everyone who played these last two games is back next year. I, like some others, am waiting for an injury-free year to truly judge Tubby, and just to have something go right for once. I don't want to see a player limping off the court and thinking to myself, "there goes the season" again.
 


"No matter how full a reservoir of maxims one may possess, and no matter how good one's sentiments may be, if one has not taken advantage of every concrete opportunity to act, one's character may remain entirely unaffected for the better."

William James
 

Dean S said:
"No matter how full a reservoir of maxims one may possess, and no matter how good one's sentiments may be, if one has not taken advantage of every concrete opportunity to act, one's character may remain entirely unaffected for the better."

William James
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Kicks butt with sabermetrics too!!
 



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