Andy Katz: "Tubby has done wonders with this group without Mbakwe."

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I actually think that's fair, that next year really is the test. But next year, I don't think the excuse about Royce and Cobbs is still viable.

No, I don't think they would, and I am really not calling for Tubby to be fired or anything. I am not really aligned with the Tubbinots at all. I just think when I honestly assess the situation, some of the blame for some of the departures falls at Tubby's feet. I think he's a good coach, I don't think he's a bad recruiter (like some people do), but I think if we aren't at least a .500 team next season, some of the criticism might be pretty fair.
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I think you make some good points Bob.

There is no way that if this team falters next year the same excuses that have been thrown into the fray this year can't be used again. One of Tubby's supposed strengths is depth and his rotation. To have good depth and a big rotation player development has to occur. Even though we are a young team we need to see some drastic improvement from the young guys next season. If Tubby is as good of a coach as many of us think it should be no problem. If he has indeed lost his touch we will see it in the results.

I don't think Tubby is a bad recruiter. I just think he is a lazy recruiter at times.
 

I'd call the job Tubby's done this year more adequate or average, than doing "wonders". I don't think he's been that horrible considering all of the circumstances involved. But obviously growth has to take place at this point. We had to essentially re-group with all the transfers and it set us back. This year, could have been a tourney year with Mbakwe, IMO could have been without him, but that's what happens when you botch up so many tight games, just ask Northwestern.

That said, anything less than a tourney berth next year is not good IMO. I gave a "pass" cause of the injury and the transfers, but now, you're gonna have a core of players that now have at least a year or two under their belt, shouldn't be too much unknown. The youth excuse goes out the window, they gotta execute late in games at a higher rate than they've been doing the last calendar year or so.
 

Monty519 said:
I'd call the job Tubby's done this year more adequate or average, than doing "wonders". I don't think he's been that horrible considering all of the circumstances involved. But obviously growth has to take place at this point. We had to essentially re-group with all the transfers and it set us back. This year, could have been a tourney year with Mbakwe, IMO could have been without him, but that's what happens when you botch up so many tight games, just ask Northwestern.

That said, anything less than a tourney berth next year is not good IMO. I gave a "pass" cause of the injury and the transfers, but now, you're gonna have a core of players that now have at least a year or two under their belt, shouldn't be too much unknown. The youth excuse goes out the window, they gotta execute late in games at a higher rate than they've been doing the last calendar year or so.
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I think Katz may be refering to not letting the team completely tank which easily could have happened. Thanks to a soft non conference schedule after Mbakwe went down they won games immediately. They also had to completely change the style of play, so everything you had done up to that point had to be re-tooled but there have been some missed opportunities to be fair. I'm a big Tubby fan but it's not wonderous to be 6-12 when you could/should be at least 9-9 or 10-8. Now if you beat Michigan and somehow get to the championship, I will say really good but not a miracle as bottom 6 has at least 1 win over the top 6 in the conference. Which means there are no totally dominate teams in the conference but a bunch of good ones.
 


FWIW (and kind if OT) Trevor is the 8th overall pick on NBAdraft.net.

For the 2013 draft.
 


howieramone said:
It would be interesting to see what this board would be like without whiners like you.
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Don't see how I am whining Howie but by your buying into the whole "wonders with this group.." you admitting that without Mbakwe this is a rather unimpressive group.
 

scher215 said:
FWIW (and kind if OT) Trevor is the 8th overall pick on NBAdraft.net.

For the 2013 draft.
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Trevor tweet in response to that info: "@GopherHole wow....I'm keeping my fingers crossed."

Go Gophers!!
 

And the kool-aid flows aplenty! We win one game after a 6-12 Big Ten season and people are calling Tubby a wonderful coach.

Under Tubby, we have consistently finished in the bottom half of the Big Ten. We have heard every excuse in the book three times. We have lost players to transfers because many of them couldn't get along with Tubby or didn't like his style. Tubby should never be excused for how he handled the point guard position last year.

Do people here actually think that with below-average point guards Trevor Mbakwe would have been able to take over a game offensively? He's a great college player, but he's definitely limited. We would have won maybe two more games with Trevor. Don't forget, we wouldn't have gotten and of Rodney's production if Trevor was healthy. He would still be the same old lost small forward.

A few points...

Tubby's recruiting - He has done a solid job of getting some top level talent. He had a bad break with Trevor, and Royce wasn't mature enough at the time. Everyone saw that in Royce, but you can't really blame Tubby going after him. Where Tubby really lacks in recruiting is getting solid starters and rotation players. This was especially exposed this year after we lost Trevor. We still don't have a true point guard on this team. We have a bunch of tweeners that can play some point but no true point guard, which I think has hurt players like Ralph and Rodney more than anything. The bench players haven't been anything special.

Player development - The player development at the U is mediocre to average at best. Ralph has been the same player for four years, and you can argue he regressed this year. Rodney Williams wasn't getting any better as a wing player, and Tubby got "lucky" when Trevor went down and had to move Rodney to power forward, his natural position. It's hard to say Rodney has developed. He certainly didn't as a wing player, and he's at his natural position now. Austin Hollins has definitely improved this year. Armelin and Ahanmesi haven't done much. They have each played a few good games, but there is no consistency there.

To someone's point about not being able to wait and see what happens with our young players? Didn't we hear that a bunch after Tubby's first recruiting class who are seniors now?

Our program is stale and needs a reboot.
 

It's always awesome and not at all offensive when people compare mass suicide to being a fan of a sports team.
 



NoTalentGopher said:
And the kool-aid flows aplenty! We win one game after a 6-12 Big Ten season and people are calling Tubby a wonderful coach.

Under Tubby, we have consistently finished in the bottom half of the Big Ten. We have heard every excuse in the book three times. We have lost players to transfers because many of them couldn't get along with Tubby or didn't like his style. Tubby should never be excused for how he handled the point guard position last year.

Do people here actually think that with below-average point guards Trevor Mbakwe would have been able to take over a game offensively? He's a great college player, but he's definitely limited. We would have won maybe two more games with Trevor. Don't forget, we wouldn't have gotten and of Rodney's production if Trevor was healthy. He would still be the same old lost small forward.

A few points...

Tubby's recruiting - He has done a solid job of getting some top level talent. He had a bad break with Trevor, and Royce wasn't mature enough at the time. Everyone saw that in Royce, but you can't really blame Tubby going after him. Where Tubby really lacks in recruiting is getting solid starters and rotation players. This was especially exposed this year after we lost Trevor. We still don't have a true point guard on this team. We have a bunch of tweeners that can play some point but no true point guard, which I think has hurt players like Ralph and Rodney more than anything. The bench players haven't been anything special.

Player development - The player development at the U is mediocre to average at best. Ralph has been the same player for four years, and you can argue he regressed this year. Rodney Williams wasn't getting any better as a wing player, and Tubby got "lucky" when Trevor went down and had to move Rodney to power forward, his natural position. It's hard to say Rodney has developed. He certainly didn't as a wing player, and he's at his natural position now. Austin Hollins has definitely improved this year. Armelin and Ahanmesi haven't done much. They have each played a few good games, but there is no consistency there.

To someone's point about not being able to wait and see what happens with our young players? Didn't we hear that a bunch after Tubby's first recruiting class who are seniors now?

Our program is stale and needs a reboot.
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You have to keep in mind that a talented big man like Mbakwe (might not have the height of a typical big man, but sure plays like one) opens the floor for the back court. A guy like Mbakwe, who averages 14 PPG, is going to attract double teams under the basket. I disagree that Mbakwe's play is limited; what's limited is his career in the B1G so it's hard to tell. I would have to think that not only would our front court would be much improved with Mbakwe, but more importantly our back court would reap the benefits of having better looks. The main problem with the Gophers' half court offense is that we don't have anyone that can create their own shot (Dre is getting there). Mbakwe alone creates better shots for Austin, Andre, Julian, etc.

As far as players progressing under Tubby, how about Andre Hollins? 18 PPG over the last three games? He has made significant strides this season.
 

What does it say about the state of the program when someone says Tubby is "working wonders" and folks are all gitty over beating Northwestern.....yes......NORTH FREAKIN' WESTERN.....in the 7/10 game of the Big Ten Tournament?
 

BOUNDOUTPASSDUNK said:
Tubby has done well with this youthful group.
1. Played without their acknowledged best player, a senior.
2. Played many games with primarily 3 freshmen, 2 soph as well as a Rodney, Welch and RSIII.
3. We DID see IMPROVEMENT from the 5 young players as well as Rodney and Welch.

Thus, regardless of MN v. MI tomorrow, this team IS improving and to the Tubbinots, give credit where credit is due.
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Absolutely. This fantastic win over NW has salvaged the season. We're off and running, doubtless a B10 tourney title is nigh at hand, and a strong run toward an
FF will follow. And knocking off the juggernaut Wildcats and dropping them from a probable 2-3 seed, all the way out of the NCAA is just icing on the cake.
Yes he's done wonders.
 




Art Vandelay said:
What does it say about the state of the program when someone says Tubby is "working wonders" and folks are all gitty over beating Northwestern.....yes......NORTH FREAKIN' WESTERN.....in the 7/10 game of the Big Ten Tournament?
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I agree that Tubby "working wonders" is a bit of a stretch. However, wasn't yesterday's game the biggest game in Northwestern's history? That might be a stretch, too? However, maybe not since it could argued that they would've been dancing for the first time in their history with a win last night.
 

Art Vandelay said:
What does it say about the state of the program when someone says Tubby is "working wonders" and folks are all gitty over beating Northwestern.....yes......NORTH FREAKIN' WESTERN.....in the 7/10 game of the Big Ten Tournament?
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It's the Big Ten Tournament. Lose you go home. We won and kept the season alive. On top of that, we saw our freshman drop 25 points like it was easy. As Gopher fans, shouldn't that be exciting?
 

Art Vandelay said:
What does it say about the state of the program when someone says Tubby is "working wonders" and folks are all gitty over beating Northwestern.....yes......NORTH FREAKIN' WESTERN.....in the 7/10 game of the Big Ten Tournament?
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What does "gitty" mean?

Whathavewedone said:
We're off and running
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Don't say "we".

And disable your enter key while you're at it.
 

panolo said:
I don't think Tubby is a bad recruiter. I just think he is a lazy recruiter at times.
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I've seen a few people write this the past few years and I don't really know how people come to that conclusion. What about him is lazy? He seems to get out to scout players a lot. He's recruited many top-level talent. I'm not saying you are wrong, but what about his recruiting is lazy at times?

I agree that "done wonders" is a little too strong probably. There have been things he hasn't done very well that have been discussed many times here (substation patterns, inbound plays, etc.). But there certainly are some things I think he has done well. If people are going to rip Tubby for the lack of development of some players, then they also have to acknowledge that guys like Austin Hollins and Rodney Williams have made strides this year. Hollins' shot and confidence is light years ahead of last season.

You also have to at least give him some credit for bringing in Julian Welch. I don't know about the rest of you, but he has exceeded my expectations. There's not too many guards out there who shoot 48% from the field. He's not a big time superstar or anything but he's been pretty good for us this year.
 

Holy Jesus Martha, can't some of you enjoy a Gopher win without chiming in with bull$hit negativism?

Have a :drink: , relax, have another :drink: , and chirp your bellyaching to your mommies.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
It's the Big Ten Tournament. Lose you go home. We won and kept the season alive. On top of that, we saw our freshman drop 25 points like it was easy. As Gopher fans, shouldn't that be exciting?
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No $h!#. I'm getting tired of the bitching and personal attacks around here. Dre lit it up, right on cue after the article about him. I'm diggin it.
 


Minngg----------most of gopherhole----------gophersiniowa
 

Art Vandelay said:
What does it say about the state of the program when someone says Tubby is "working wonders" and folks are all gitty over beating Northwestern.....yes......NORTH FREAKIN' WESTERN.....in the 7/10 game of the Big Ten Tournament?
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I know it's not easy....it's not a lot of fun right now...but I beg of you, don't do anything you'll regret. You will get through this. In about eight hours if Minnesota loses tonight, everything will be alright in your world. Just hang in there. Root for Michigan tonight and if the Wolverines can pull it off, just think about how happy you'll be and how you can forget the awful 24 hours that preceded it.
 

goldengophers said:
Minngg----------most of gopherhole----------gophersiniowa
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There are plenty of other people I would put on the extreme "Tubby can do no wrong" end of the spectrum before gophersiniowa, me among them. I think he's quite a reasonable poster, not the guy who's going to tell everyone how wrong they were about Tubby after last night's win over Northwestern, and he's definitely not the guy whose "excessive optimism" sense is going to tingle and cause him to tell everyone to stop celebrating the win because Tubby's a terrible coach and we still suck and the future is bleak.
 

goldengophers said:
Minngg----------most of gopherhole----------gophersiniowa
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Thanks Cayman, I don't know why he pinned me as someone who is extremely in Tubby's favor. Yes, I tend to look at things in a positive light, that's just what being a fan is to me. I'd rather enjoy being a fan, than be miserable all the time.

But I guess I appreciate the recognition, goldengophers.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Thanks Cayman, I don't know why he pinned me as someone who is extremely in Tubby's favor. Yes, I tend to look at things in a positive light, that's just what being a fan is to me. I'd rather enjoy being a fan, than be miserable all the time.

But I guess I appreciate the recognition, goldengophers.
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I might be wrong on this, my posting your name was pmore in regards to more recent posts in the Tubby debate threads and not and indication of all your posts here. I'm also not saying you're wrong or that those farther in Tubby's court are going to be wrong.
 


I don't think Tubby is a bad recruiter. I just think he is a lazy recruiter at times.[/QUOTE]

Little hint for you. Not all bad recruiters are lazy recruiters, but all lazy recruiters ARE
bad recruiters.
 

Tubby has 7 of our total 13 big ten tournament wins. That's cray.
 


Whathavewedone said:
Stick your enter key where
the sun doesn't shine. No one
has a gun to your head forcing
you to read or reply to my posts.
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You certainly have an obsession with anuses, as well as putting things in and pulling things out of them.

Also, I'm not the one who has a problem with enter key abuse.

Why are you still allowed to post here?
 

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