All Things Pharrel Payne Recruiting Thread (Class of 2022; Gophers Have Offered)

Will have to be for us. Who you thinkin? Payne?

With the current guys planned for next year, I don't think any will be able to guard true 5s in the paint. Ihnen seems like the best option though.

You don't need a true center in today's game. Many teams don't have one. Many play with 3 or even 4 guards and 1-2 forwards.

Ohio St is a prime example. EJ Liddell is their main big. He's 6'7" and that might be generous.
 

You don't need a true center in today's game. Many teams don't have one. Many play with 3 or even 4 guards and 1-2 forwards.

Ohio St is a prime example. EJ Liddell is their main big. He's 6'7" and that might be generous.
Zed Key is their big.

I agree but then you better find ways to defend and/or be able to capitalize offensively.
 

Zed Key is their big.

I agree but then you better find ways to defend and/or be able to capitalize offensively.

Key is still only 6'8", and Liddell averages more rebounds and blocks per game than him.

The day's of needing a 7' center ended about 20 years ago.

And I get that there are a number of old school centers still in the B1G, but maybe that's the reason this conference hasn't won a championship in 21 years.
 

Will have to be for us. Who you thinkin? Payne?

With the current guys planned for next year, I don't think any will be able to guard true 5s in the paint. Ihnen seems like the best option though.
Payne, Ihnen, Thompson with another year in the weight room. Fox as an undersized option.

I'm not at all concerned about our bigs next season.

Guard play is a much greater concern. We need a legit starting PG, starting 2 (Kerwin??), plus another combo guard/ball handler off the bench to play backup PG. All of them via the portal...
 

I think you might be underselling Carrington and Payne. Payne will probably start ahead of Fox, who would be much better off the bench. He is limited offensively as a shooter - an athlete who will be able to guard, rebound, etc. - nice to bring off the bench. Someone else may come in but right now Payne, Ihnen, Battle a nice trio because both Ihnen and Battle will stretch the floor and go to basket - Ihnen will look much better with new staff.

Carrington can guard people and shoots the ball really well. I wouldn't put him to the bench right away, and we don't really know anything about Henley. Will be interesting to see who else they bring on for the perimeter. And, Ben, and most college coaches, don't think 1-5 anymore. It's funny to me that fans still label players that way when almost no one coaching does that anymore.
Payne is great and has huge upside. But I would not assume he will start ahead of Parker Fox. In fact I would be surprised. Fox was the number one player in all of Division II basketball. He has 100 D1 offers when he entered the transfer portal. He scored 31 and 33 against UMD with 10/16 and 10/12 shooting in the two games, and 8 and 9 rebounds.

That is a little tougher than high school, a little harder than 19 points aginst Forest Lake and even 20 against Cretin DH.
 


Key is still only 6'8", and Liddell averages more rebounds and blocks per game than him.

The day's of needing a 7' center ended about 20 years ago.

And I get that there are a number of old school centers still in the B1G, but maybe that's the reason this conference hasn't won a championship in 21 years.
True. Auburn a prime example. Get up and down the floor and shoot the 3 ball. They've had big time success with that under Pearl.

Seems like if you do have that big, he better be able to get up and down the floor.
 

Do not undersell Parker Fox either. He was the number one player in all of Division II basketball. When he entered the transfer portal he had 100 D1 offers and his final eight included Gophers, Ohio State, Creighton, Texas Christian, San Diego State, Florida State, Vanderbilt and Texas Tech.

Last year he scored 31 and 33 against UMD with 10/16 and 10/12 shooting and 9 and 8 rebounds.

At Northern State he had 179 dunks including 80 his last year and also had 186 blocks.
His team was 19-2 and was ranked all year among top D II teams. He is a leaper, extremely athletic. (He has to work on his outside shooting, do you think he is doing that this year?)

That is all a lot harder to do against college teams than scoring 19 against Forest lake and 20 against Cretin DH. Payne is great and has huge upside but he has not had the same kind of experience/competition/productivity as Parker. I would not assume that Payne will start over Parker. If they both absolutely have to start (based on skill level), that would be good.
 

True. Auburn a prime example. Get up and down the floor and shoot the 3 ball. They've had big time success with that under Pearl.

Seems like if you do have that big, he better be able to get up and down the floor.
Auburn has a 7-1 center who gets a lot of playing time. Not sure of his style of play, but he is big.
 

Giannnis 6; 11', Embiid 7' 0', KAT 6' 11", Portzingis 7' 3", Davis 6' 10", etc

You don't need a 7' 0" center and you do not want an immobile one. But the days of the 7' 0" center (or forward for that matter) are not gone. Why not have athletic and big if you get the chance?
 



Auburn has a 7-1 center who gets a lot of playing time. Not sure of his style of play, but he is big.
Forgot about him. You're right. I think he can get up and down a little bit but he's still a big dude.
 

Do not undersell Parker Fox either. He was the number one player in all of Division II basketball. When he entered the transfer portal he had 100 D1 offers and his final eight included Gophers, Ohio State, Creighton, Texas Christian, San Diego State, Florida State, Vanderbilt and Texas Tech.

Last year he scored 31 and 33 against UMD with 10/16 and 10/12 shooting and 9 and 8 rebounds.

At Northern State he had 179 dunks including 80 his last year and also had 186 blocks.
His team was 19-2 and was ranked all year among top D II teams. He is a leaper, extremely athletic. (He has to work on his outside shooting, do you think he is doing that this year?)

That is all a lot harder to do against college teams than scoring 19 against Forest lake and 20 against Cretin DH. Payne is great and has huge upside but he has not had the same kind of experience/competition/productivity as Parker. I would not assume that Payne will start over Parker. If they both absolutely have to start (based on skill level), that would be good.

Fox will start if he's healthy next year. The bigger question is whether Payne starts over Ihnen.
 

Giannnis 6; 11', Embiid 7' 0', KAT 6' 11", Portzingis 7' 3", Davis 6' 10", etc

You don't need a 7' 0" center and you do not want an immobile one. But the days of the 7' 0" center (or forward for that matter) are not gone. Why not have athletic and big if you get the chance?

None of those guys are traditional centers though. They are all highly mobile forwards with a strong inside and outside game.
 

Will have to be for us. Who you thinkin? Payne?

With the current guys planned for next year, I don't think any will be able to guard true 5s in the paint. Ihnen seems like the best option though.
Fox would be a more suitable 5 over Ihnen. Payne will play a lot from Day 1. Thompson will also hopefully be bigger and stronger.
 



You make him out to be a one an done guy
Well, I think I make him out to be a really athletic, strong, and well-rounded big that will help a lot next year. That certainly doesn't make him a one and done guy. His outside shot is definitely going to need to improve. I do think he's going to be better than a lot of people are thinking he's going to be. I hear people talking about whether he'll start or contribute much. If you see him live I think you'll see some physical talent that can contribute next year right away.
 

Fox would be a more suitable 5 over Ihnen. Payne will play a lot from Day 1. Thompson will also hopefully be bigger and stronger.
This will be a really interesting position for them next year. I don't think it's a sure thing that any of them will be highly effective at guarding 5's next year. Part of it will be how all of them develop physically over the next year, and if they find a 5 in the transfer portal. Ihnen does have a freakish 7-4 wingspan, but he preferred to be on the outside and actually did reasonably well shooting 3's during his playing time before. Fox would have to bulk up a bit to guard a 5, as would Thompson obviously. Payne has the lower body strength to hold his ground pretty well, but it's a crapshoot at this point.
 

This will be a really interesting position for them next year. I don't think it's a sure thing that any of them will be highly effective at guarding 5's next year. Part of it will be how all of them develop physically over the next year, and if they find a 5 in the transfer portal. Ihnen does have a freakish 7-4 wingspan, but he preferred to be on the outside and actually did reasonably well shooting 3's during his playing time before. Fox would have to bulk up a bit to guard a 5, as would Thompson obviously. Payne has the lower body strength to hold his ground pretty well, but it's a crapshoot at this point.
My hope would be with the extra guard depth, they’d be allowed t guard posts differently. Changing fronts and bringing doubles, etc… Also I like the idea of Dickerson having chase around ultra active Fox or Payne around. Same can be said about TT on ball screens too. They gotta guard our guys too.
 

My hope would be with the extra guard depth, they’d be allowed t guard posts differently. Changing fronts and bringing doubles, etc… Also I like the idea of Dickerson having chase around ultra active Fox or Payne around. Same can be said about TT on ball screens too. They gotta guard our guys too.
I don't think getting some help in the post by doubling is a bad idea on occasion, but I'm not sure what guard depth we have at this point? And there's an awful lot of 3-pt shooters in the Big Ten, and doubling in the post can cause a lot of open looks. And I think Dickinson would have to be chasing a big that can shoot, and that isn't the strength of either Payne or Fox at this point. I just wouldn't mind one more established big to transfer over for some depth.
 

I don't think getting some help in the post by doubling is a bad idea on occasion, but I'm not sure what guard depth we have at this point? And there's an awful lot of 3-pt shooters in the Big Ten, and doubling in the post can cause a lot of open looks. And I think Dickinson would have to be chasing a big that can shoot, and that isn't the strength of either Payne or Fox at this point. I just wouldn't mind one more established big to transfer over for some depth.
Yeah it’s of course all match up based. We do this defensively with certain players already where we would sink down. Indiana was an example. I don’t think taking a transfer frontcourt guy is out of the question either. As for guard depth we obviously will be adding multiple, so the guard depth is an assumption. I figured if we could get get the three guards we got this year, we could duplicate at least that level plus add Carrington.
 

Key is still only 6'8", and Liddell averages more rebounds and blocks per game than him.

The day's of needing a 7' center ended about 20 years ago.

And I get that there are a number of old school centers still in the B1G, but maybe that's the reason this conference hasn't won a championship in 21 years.
Maybe ten years ago, definitely five, but not 20
 

Giannnis 6; 11', Embiid 7' 0', KAT 6' 11", Portzingis 7' 3", Davis 6' 10", etc

You don't need a 7' 0" center and you do not want an immobile one. But the days of the 7' 0" center (or forward for that matter) are not gone. Why not have athletic and big if you get the chance?
There will never be a team where incredibly athletic and skilled 6'10" + guys aren't good at basketball. I don't think anyone ever argued that.

The day of NEEDING a true center to be a good college basketball team are over. That's not to say that having a really good center hurts you, it's just saying that you don't need to shoehorn a true center into the lineup to compete.

The truth is, there are way more players 6'9" who are skilled than players who are 6'10" and skilled, and way more players who are 6'10" that are skilled than players who are 6'11", etc., etc.

But yes, if you have the fortune of being able to land a super skilled 7'0", YES, a million times YES, play that person.
 

Key is still only 6'8", and Liddell averages more rebounds and blocks per game than him.

The day's of needing a 7' center ended about 20 years ago.

And I get that there are a number of old school centers still in the B1G, but maybe that's the reason this conference hasn't won a championship in 21 years.
Every team in the country would take a number of these old school centers as you call them. Maybe other conferences have better guards.
 


There will never be a team where incredibly athletic and skilled 6'10" + guys aren't good at basketball. I don't think anyone ever argued that.

The day of NEEDING a true center to be a good college basketball team are over. That's not to say that having a really good center hurts you, it's just saying that you don't need to shoehorn a true center into the lineup to compete.

The truth is, there are way more players 6'9" who are skilled than players who are 6'10" and skilled, and way more players who are 6'10" that are skilled than players who are 6'11", etc., etc.

But yes, if you have the fortune of being able to land a super skilled 7'0", YES, a million times YES, play that person.
The biggest change in basketball is that the idea of traditional positions really doesn't exist that much anymore. You have all these hybrid type players that can play a number of different positions. Big guys can dribble and shoot from outside, guards have gotten a lot taller, you don't need the true center anymore.....This is especially true in the NBA but is also common in the college ranks now.
 

With the current guys planned for next year, I don't think any will be able to guard true 5s in the paint. Ihnen seems like the best option though.

Ben absolutely has to get 2-3 transfers, including a big and a PG, or next year will be another long one.

Ihnen isn't a post-up player and isn't a guy who can guard a post every possession.
 

Ben absolutely has to get 2-3 transfers, including a big and a PG, or next year will be another long one.

Ihnen isn't a post-up player and isn't a guy who can guard a post every possession.
for sure....clearly a huge hole at the PG spot but we certainly need to add a legit 5 man as well

we need to be able to rely on more then 7 players next year
 

Did anyone attend the POCG - MHA game yesterday and can give a report? From the stats, it looked like a back and forth between Payne and Aligbe.
 

Fox would be a more suitable 5 over Ihnen. Payne will play a lot from Day 1. Thompson will also hopefully be bigger and stronger.
I will argue that Ihnen is more suited to defend the 3 or 4. He was quicker and more mobile than any of the wings the Gophers are currently playing, hard to tell how he will recover from the injury though.
 

Did anyone attend the POCG - MHA game yesterday and can give a report? From the stats, it looked like a back and forth between Payne and Aligbe.
Gophers cooled on Aligbe too soon. He’s physically ready to play day 1. Having as good of a season as anyone in the state. He’s literally carrying Minnehaha Academy on his back.
 


Ben absolutely has to get 2-3 transfers, including a big and a PG, or next year will be another long one.

Ihnen isn't a post-up player and isn't a guy who can guard a post every possession.
I think a couple guards that can handle are the priority and there are definitely some that would seem to make sense with Minnesota ties.
Ihnen isn't a post up guy but I don't think he has to be. I think Ben wants at least 4 guys who can shoot on the floor as much as he can. You're seeing Battle spend the majority of his time at the 4 this year and he isn't a big post up guy. Looking for post presence or the 5 spot on next years team you are looking at Fox and Payne there right now and I think if Thompson can continue to add muscle he can play there too. If there is a really good fit you could add another guy there but I don't think you have to. Our main targets in 23 are bigs as well with Winter(more 4) and Kapke(more 5)
 




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