All Things Gophers Basketball 2017 Recruiting Thread

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alchemy2u said:
Same goes for people who have seen his practices and how he works with the players. I remember listening to the Gopher radio announcers talking about how Pitino runs his program. They both said it is obvious that he can coach basketball and that the practices are very organize and they spend a lot of time improving individual skills. They were both very impressed.


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There is no doubt in my mind that he can coach. The biggest thing he needs to improve on is the defensive side- which will come along with better players and more size.
 

bga1 said:
There is no doubt in my mind that he can coach. The biggest thing he needs to improve on is the defensive side- which will come along with better players and more size.
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Pitino is going to succeed somewhere, might not be here, but it will be somewhere.
 


SelectionSunday said:
How do you define succeed, here or elsewhere?
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It's a good question but it probably would be better that you define it for yourself and someone else say- yes he can do that or no he can't. Basketball coaching is part circumstances, part endurance, part luck, part recruiting and part coaching. I think that under the right circumstances he could be an upper echelon coach. I think and example of a good coach who has wound up in a bad luck situation is Groce at Illinois. Can he endure to get through it?
 

SS

I can only define it by the fact he will leave a job via something other than firing. How about that? Given that success is very subjective as referenced by the necessity of this comment.

A "bold prediction" to create objectivity? He'll win multiple NCAA games.
 


Winasota Gopher said:
Pitino is going to succeed somewhere, might not be here, but it will be somewhere.
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I've felt this way from the get-go If I were to put criteria around it, I really believe he'll be a Final Four coach at some point in his career. He obviously hasn't shown it yet, and I could be way wrong, but that is what my gut says. Of course, if he gets that far and does it at a different school, the media and fans that want him gone now, will be all over the "#WeDidntNeedHim" heavy sarcasm in an effort to tear down our program. It was laid on thick this March when Texas Tech made the Tournament.

Go Gophers!!
 

At Minnesota it should be 5th or better in year 4, a conference title or a deep tourney run by year 5 and every year after that top 4 in the conference every year after that. Why settle for less. This is what really great coaches do. Think of the guys that have come into the Big 10 and got those things done. Groce is not a very good coach. Illinois is in their worst stretch in 40 years. A great coach would have already won here by now.
 

builtbadgers said:
At Minnesota it should be 5th or better in year 4, a conference title or a deep tourney run by year 5 and every year after that top 4 in the conference every year after that. Why settle for less. This is what really great coaches do. Think of the guys that have come into the Big 10 and got those things done. Groce is not a very good coach. Illinois is in their worst stretch in 40 years. A great coach would have already won here by now.
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K
 

builtbadgers said:
At Minnesota it should be 5th or better in year 4, a conference title or a deep tourney run by year 5 and every year after that top 4 in the conference every year after that. Why settle for less. This is what really great coaches do. Think of the guys that have come into the Big 10 and got those things done. Groce is not a very good coach. Illinois is in their worst stretch in 40 years. A great coach would have already won here by now.
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What year you are in is irrelevant. A coach could have a great year in year one or two and be bad in year four or even year 6. The smartest standard I have heard here was stated by Dutcher who said that he felt we should expect to "compete" for a Big Ten title every 3-4 years. He always knew it would be a cycle here. That's good coaching- Clem Haskins level coaching. Great coaching- we haven't had one of those since Musselman. There are very few of those in America- 10 or 20 of them. We were never going to get a "great coach" right out of the shoot. Pitino may be great someday- if fact I think he probably will be. Will we be patient enough to wait?
 



builtbadgers said:
At Minnesota it should be 5th or better in year 4, a conference title or a deep tourney run by year 5 and every year after that top 4 in the conference every year after that. Why settle for less. This is what really great coaches do. Think of the guys that have come into the Big 10 and got those things done. Groce is not a very good coach. Illinois is in their worst stretch in 40 years. A great coach would have already won here by now.
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Opinions on where the gophers are at aside... You set too many arbitrary bars that do not take into account circumstance.

You also seem to think that "great" coaches grow on trees. "Why settle for less" is such a naive comment. Me suspects that you have been watching Wisconsin succeed under the Dick Bennett/Bo Ryan formula for far too long to have any real objectivity of how to build a program under any other political environment.

Also convenient that your bar for Big Ten greatness is Bo Ryan's "never below 4th" mark.

Great individuals (and coaches) learn from failure. With your Bo Ryan meter stick, you would cast off those with great potential before you allowed them to reach it.

SIGH.


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Davison continues to have his stock rising. I had heard that Duke may be kicking the tires, but the crystal ball and momentum seems to be toward becky :(
 

RickDornsby said:
Davison continues to have his stock rising. I had heard that Duke may be kicking the tires, but the crystal ball and momentum seems to be toward becky :(
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247 says he doesn't even have a Wisconsin offer yet, granted that doesn't mean he's not interested. His best offer currently is probably either Dayton or NC State. Also lists two other point guards, Isaiah Washington and McKinley Wright, as "warm" on the Gophers.
 

I was really high on Pitino's coaching ability in his first year. Even in his second year, I thought he put the team in position to win a lot of games but certain players continuously choked down the stretch of many games...if we had just one clutch player that season looks a lot different. In year 3 though, I found myself literally laughing at the television watching both games against Northwestern and the Nebraska game. Those games were among the worst coached games I remember as a Gopher fan (recent history games that come to mind: Tubby's last year at Northwestern and at Iowa, the three games we played in a preseason tournament in Monson's last year followed by the Clemson game). I still lean towards the idea that he's a good coach, but I am at least open to the possibility that Dan McHale was really important to Coach Pitino's success. The other thing is that if Pitino doesn't really turn it around here, how does he ever get to a Final Four or win multiple conference championships? He's going to have a tough time getting another head coaching job at a school with real NCAA potential unless his father is willing to do something like the UNLV rumor from this past season in order to get his son a coach in waiting gig. I think he's at the point where he'll have to go down to the FIU level and win for a few years before getting a chance at another high major and even then he'll probably have to take a tough job (Boston College?).

As for expectations, I disagree with builtbadgers in that even coaches that have won National titles recently have taken a dip down to the NIT range at times like Calhoun at UConn, Donovan at Florida, and Calipari at Kentucky. I'd love to feel like we had a great chance at a conference title every four years or so and Sweet 16 potential or better 2/4 years with the other two years being a bubble team, NIT, or complete rebuild depending on the situation. Hopefully Pitino is the coach to do just that.

From what I understand, Pitino hasn't offered Davison because he wants a guard with the quickness to really pressure the ball all over the floor (think Dorsey or Mathieu). Wright and Washington and even the other kid they just showed interest in Wabissa Bede all profile to be able to play that style of defense better than Davison. I agree with those that see him consistently putting up impressive, efficient stats in the EYBL and wonder how we don't have room for a guy like that. The somewhat frustrating thing about guys like Wright, Sims, and Davision is that they have all been seen by Gopher coaches for a couple of years and you wonder if an offer this past Fall (or even last Summer) might have resulted in a quick commitment. All 3 have blown up to various degrees on the Spring circuit and now have plenty of options. That said, you can't be too hard on the staff in this particular situation because they did only have one scholarship to offer and looked to need a Center more than anything with that available scholarship.
 



Cayman said:
247 says he doesn't even have a Wisconsin offer yet, granted that doesn't mean he's not interested. His best offer currently is probably either Dayton or NC State. Also lists two other point guards, Isaiah Washington and McKinley Wright, as "warm" on the Gophers.
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I think there's a pretty strong assumption that both the Badgers and Gophers will offer Davison soon.
 

EG#9 said:
I was really high on Pitino's coaching ability in his first year. Even in his second year, I thought he put the team in position to win a lot of games but certain players continuously choked down the stretch of many games...if we had just one clutch player that season looks a lot different. In year 3 though, I found myself literally laughing at the television watching both games against Northwestern and the Nebraska game. Those games were among the worst coached games I remember as a Gopher fan (recent history games that come to mind: Tubby's last year at Northwestern and at Iowa, the three games we played in a preseason tournament in Monson's last year followed by the Clemson game). I still lean towards the idea that he's a good coach, but I am at least open to the possibility that Dan McHale was really important to Coach Pitino's success. The other thing is that if Pitino doesn't really turn it around here, how does he ever get to a Final Four or win multiple conference championships? He's going to have a tough time getting another head coaching job at a school with real NCAA potential unless his father is willing to do something like the UNLV rumor from this past season in order to get his son a coach in waiting gig. I think he's at the point where he'll have to go down to the FIU level and win for a few years before getting a chance at another high major and even then he'll probably have to take a tough job (Boston College?).

As for expectations, I disagree with builtbadgers in that even coaches that have won National titles recently have taken a dip down to the NIT range at times like Calhoun at UConn, Donovan at Florida, and Calipari at Kentucky. I'd love to feel like we had a great chance at a conference title every four years or so and Sweet 16 potential or better 2/4 years with the other two years being a bubble team, NIT, or complete rebuild depending on the situation. Hopefully Pitino is the coach to do just that.

From what I understand, Pitino hasn't offered Davison because he wants a guard with the quickness to really pressure the ball all over the floor (think Dorsey or Mathieu). Wright and Washington and even the other kid they just showed interest in Wabissa Bede all profile to be able to play that style of defense better than Davison. I agree with those that see him consistently putting up impressive, efficient stats in the EYBL and wonder how we don't have room for a guy like that. The somewhat frustrating thing about guys like Wright, Sims, and Davision is that they have all been seen by Gopher coaches for a couple of years and you wonder if an offer this past Fall (or even last Summer) might have resulted in a quick commitment. All 3 have blown up to various degrees on the Spring circuit and now have plenty of options. That said, you can't be too hard on the staff in this particular situation because they did only have one scholarship to offer and looked to need a Center more than anything with that available scholarship.
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This last year they simply did not have a Big 10 squad on the floor. There was talent in the young guys but not Big 10 ready talent. As a result the rebounding was bad and the shooting was even worse. Pitino teams the first two years average 45.5% FG%. This past year 40.5% FG%. That's probably 6 points or more per game lost (enough to change the result of quite a few games). What did not get worse however, and to me is an indication of coaching, is the turnover rate. They turned the ball over about 11 times a game which is pretty much on par with what a good coach like Tubby Smith achieved here with a slower tempo. I think Pitino sets his guys up to win but he needs more talent than he has had. I am hoping that we see the start of that this year.
 

builtbadgers said:
At Minnesota it should be 5th or better in year 4, a conference title or a deep tourney run by year 5 and every year after that top 4 in the conference every year after that. Why settle for less. This is what really great coaches do. Think of the guys that have come into the Big 10 and got those things done. Groce is not a very good coach. Illinois is in their worst stretch in 40 years. A great coach would have already won here by now.
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Even coach K has finished out of the top 4 in the ACC after his fourth year. At Minnesota, like most non bluebloods, you should always have the goal of making tournament, it won't always happen, but if you're atleast contending bid every year you're doing something right. The second part would be, every recruiting class should be on at least one team in their four years to make a deep run in the NCAA's and seriously contend for a conference title. If you can have a ten year run, of seven NCAA appearances, three of them sweet 16 or better, win a conference title or two, finish in the top four five times and are somewhere in the middle of pack (6-9) in a 14 league the other years and those non NCAA seasons are still producing NIT bids, that would probably be the best ten year period in the history of gopher basketball. I get what you're saying, but even great one's have "back Pain" when they know they won't win and take a couple years off
 

builtbadgers said:
At Minnesota it should be 5th or better in year 4, a conference title or a deep tourney run by year 5 and every year after that top 4 in the conference every year after that. Why settle for less. This is what really great coaches do. Think of the guys that have come into the Big 10 and got those things done. Groce is not a very good coach. Illinois is in their worst stretch in 40 years. A great coach would have already won here by now.
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You're really good at copying and pasting the same thing over and over.
 

I would say the biggest problems last year were lack of production from upperclassmen, even with promising underclassmen you're not going to win unless they are McDonalds All Americans, can't have a Fab Five with three or even some four star recruits mixed in. Bad interior defense, wasn't just the four's and fives because they couldn't protect the paint the guards had to cheat a little more and that allowed teams to kill us on the perimeter can't play aggressive D without rim protectors, which also affects you're ability to get out and run on offense when you can't stop anyone. Three point shooting was also a big issue, although I think with improved ball movement i.e a center that can catch the ball and make routine passes, scoring in general should be better. That's why having Lynch is so pivotal doesn't even have to be a top tier center, just being average or E.E 2.0 would help this team greatly
 

Pitino has not yet had a whole team out on the floor. For various reasons, he has had play guys out of position just to get enough talent on the floor. Even last year when the freshman started to come around, the bigs just couldn't keep up so he shifted around line ups just try and compete. This next year he should finally have experienced players at all the positions.


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alchemy2u said:
Pitino has not yet had a whole team out on the floor. For various reasons, he has had play guys out of position just to get enough talent on the floor. Even last year when the freshman started to come around, the bigs just couldn't keep up so he shifted around line ups just try and compete. This next year he should finally have experienced players at all the positions.


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For whatever it's worth, it was his own choice to go the JUCO/transfer route early on. I realize he had a team built to win then and figured he'd fill the roster in over the next few years, but part of that is on him.
 

really well thought out. There are non blue blood programs that have managed to do what i mentioned but do think your target is more realistic and still ambitious. Your post below points out the largest problem i have with this regime and i only have two problems. One is poor defense by the standards of what it takes to build a program. Two would be character, there have been shortcuts taken in recruiting that resulted in disaster. You must get out in that second class four guys you can lose with . They set the tone and the identity of what your program stands for.This program still lacks that thing you hang your hat on every single day. I have not seen or heard from anyone that has been in the basketball business say that Pitino has that something special.
 




RickDornsby said:
For whatever it's worth, it was his own choice to go the JUCO/transfer route early on. I realize he had a team built to win then and figured he'd fill the roster in over the next few years, but part of that is on him.
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We all can create a laundry list of why and I don't want to get into the blame games again.

My point was that he has had to use players out of position to plug holes and has not yet been able to run with a full team. That will change this year.


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BballJones said:
Anyone know why Washington doesn't have more offers? His list seems small and fairly so-so for a player rated that high. It'd be great to land Washington or Wright. Davison seems to be jumping up the board too. The options for this 2017 class are pretty intriguing.
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Right on. We probably won't get our wish list completely filled, but we're going to get some pretty good players out of this class.
 




BballJones said:
Isn't Wright about the same size? Wright's offer list appears to be better, at least somewhat - and he's generally rated lower. Maybe a combo of size and grades then?? Either way, would be very happy with one of these guys.
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If you go on 247 and look at the dots under each player that's how many services have rated them, I think Wright has been rated by everyone and only a couple of rated Washington, and only 247 has rated Davison. Perhaps both their ratings will drop, could rise as well once more eyes have evaluated them.
 

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