All Things COVID-19 College Football Impact

[Pompous Elitist]

This I actually agree with you whole heartedly. And have said similar before.

So it’s disappointing for them to dishonestly suggest that authorities believe something to be true when no evidence even supports it at all.

Your BFF Stefan and the gang put together a MN predictive model that wasn’t correct within the 97% confidence boundaries and really wasn’t even close, and continues to be wrong despite numerous weeks of riots and mass gatherings, many without face masks. These same people restricted ANY funerals, sports, graduation ceremonies, and the list goes on even with proper distancing. What evidence did they have to support such a gross overstep? None.

There is some evidence children do not spread the virus at home as would be expected, IIRC from some overseas cohorts. Why? Open to argument. We don’t understand everything. Some, like Stefan claim to. You can look it up.

 

[MplsGopher]

Do you have evidence to support your assertion? There is some level of evidence, quality unknown. I’m not going to look it up for you, again.

Is there any harm to closing school, in your mind?

They made the assertion. Said children may not spread the virus. They have to back that up. Not me.

Yes, absolutely believe there is risk and harm in closing school. The same arguments they made in what you posted, I agree with.

But there is potentially greater risk in kids bringing the virus home with them, infecting family, and that leading a chain of infection that kills someone.

If they can disprove, reasonably (talking percentages here, of course), then I would feel pretty good about school this fall being very similar to last fall, perhaps with mandatory masks, no PE class, and other minimal changes.

 

[MplsGopher]

Your BFF Stefan and the gang put together a MN predictive model that wasn’t correct within the 97% uncertainty boundaries and really wasn’t even close, and continues to be wrong despite numerous weeks of riots and mass gatherings, many without face masks. These same people restricted ANY funerals, sports, graduation ceremonies, and the list goes on even with proper distancing. What evidence did they have to support such a gross overstep? None.

There is some evidence children do not spread the virus at home as would be expected, IIRC from some overseas cohorts. Why? Open to argument. We don’t understand everything. Some, like Stefan claim to. You can look it up.

Limiting doesn’t harm anything. It may have been unnecessary and the models for a brand new disease weren’t great. You always lean on the side of doing too much, rather than not enough. Take away freedoms and rights, over getting people killed.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I have only wild speculation, no proof of anything. My gut says coaches weren’t involved, and it was a player organized idea. Same as “captains practices”. Get players in a room and say “look man, you really want to let covid screw our season over?? It’s not gonna kill you, you probably won’t even feel sick. Just get it over with!”

It sounds so cloak and dagger. Here’s the deal, your average social, horny 18-22 yr old can CHOOSE 1:
-self isolate at home with Grandma for 12-18 months
-wear a mask to party, friends house, bar and try to score
-not wear a mask to to the party, friends house, bar and try to score.

 

[MplsGopher]

It sounds so cloak and dagger. Here’s the deal, your average social, horny 18-22 yr old can CHOOSE 1:
-self isolate at home with Grandma for 12-18 months
-wear a mask to party, friends house, bar and try to score
-not wear a mask to to the party, friends house, bar and try to score.

Sure, valid wild speculation that 30 out of 100 got infected at the same time suddenly because they decided to party.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Limiting doesn’t harm anything. It may have been unnecessary and the models for a brand new disease weren’t great. You always lean on the side of doing too much, rather than not enough. Take away freedoms and rights, over getting people killed.

They did a fine job at that, didn’t they? Why does MN have the worst LTCF population : general population fatality rate in the nation?

No ill effects from school closures and shutdowns. Sure.

 

[MplsGopher]

They did a fine job at that, didn’t they? Why does MN have the worst LTCF population : general population fatality rate in the nation?

No ill effects from school closures and shutdowns. Sure.

1st para: No one has any clue. If what you state is even true.

2nd para: it got people killed? I agreed already, some ill effects.

If a genie said you can either enforce virtual school for the fall and deal with consequences of that, and then the vaccine is ready end of calendar year, or you can open back up and get an extra 100k people killed, obviously most people (except you?) go the former.

 

[GopherGuy8]

1st para: No one has any clue. If what you state is even true.

2nd para: it got people killed? I agreed already, some ill effects.

If a genie said you can either enforce virtual school for the fall and deal with consequences of that, and then the vaccine is ready end of calendar year, or you can open back up and get an extra 100k people killed, obviously most people (except you?) go the former.

Your just playing the fear factor game while making outlandish claims that a vaccine will be ready. I'd be interested in seeing research on how many people who reportedly died from covid would have died within the year from other long term illnesses.

 

[GoldenRodents]

Now we know which people to protect and which people can move freely so we can get herd immunity as fast as possible.

Which Harry Potter spell do you propose that will "protect" those who you (disrespectfully) label as "fragile" and are vulnerable?

That's the whole point. Unless we're prepared to round them up and lock them in isolation chambers until a cure/vaccine is proven and available, then it is impossible that letting people be free, as you desire, won't cause a chain of (possibly asymptomatic) infections that eventually reaches a vulnerable person.

No, the whole point is to get through this without overloading the hospital system while getting herd immunity as soon as possible. If you are a vulnerable person, you know who you are, stay hidden until herd immunity is achieved, the vaccine may never come.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

1st para: No one has any clue. If what you state is even true.

2nd para: it got people killed? I agreed already, some ill effects.

If a genie said you can either enforce virtual school for the fall and deal with consequences of that, and then the vaccine is ready end of calendar year, or you can open back up and get an extra 100k people killed, obviously most people (except you?) go the former.

Those are the two choices, eh?

 

[MplsGopher]

Those are the two choices, eh?

No. They might be the ends of a spectrum or maybe not even that. The point of the hypothetical was to express, correctly, the desire to save lives as being more important than less than a year of temporary lost freedoms.

 

[MplsGopher]

No, the whole point is to get through this without overloading the hospital system while getting herd immunity as soon as possible. If you are a vulnerable person, you know who you are, stay hidden until herd immunity is achieved, the vaccine may never come.

Fauci says vaccine by end of the year is still possible. He has credibility, we posters have none.

Herd immunity won’t be achieved until we have a vaccine. Right now likely less than 15% of the population has been infected and maybe less than 10%. End of the year isn’t going to magically jump up 50% more. Maybe 20-25% by the end of the year, meaning probably 300k dead.

 

[GopherGuy8]

No. They might be the ends of a spectrum or maybe not even that. The point of the hypothetical was to express, correctly, the desire to save lives as being more important than less than a year of temporary lost freedoms.

If it was just a loss of freedom that would be one thing. The problem is that there are way more repercussions, socially, mentally, economically, etc.

 

[MplsGopher]

If it was just a loss of freedom that would be one thing. The problem is that there are way more repercussions, socially, mentally, economically, etc.

That’s someone’s narrative, to sell TV views. Very minor consequences, in the grand scheme of things.

 

[PitinoFan]

Fauci says vaccine by end of the year is still possible. He has credibility, we posters have none.

Herd immunity won’t be achieved until we have a vaccine. Right now likely less than 15% of the population has been infected and maybe less than 10%. End of the year isn’t going to magically jump up 50% more. Maybe 20-25% by the end of the year, meaning probably 300k dead.

3 months ago, Fauci told us not to wear masks.

5 months ago, he said the virus isn’t highly transmissible, and was “nothing to worry about.”

He has credibility, but his recent track record is not good.

 

[MplsGopher]

3 months ago, Fauci told us not to wear masks.

5 months ago, he said the virus isn’t highly transmissible, and was “nothing to worry about.”

He has credibility, but his recent track record is not good.

Whose track record has been spot on, with this brand new disease?

 

[PitinoFan]

Whose track record has been spot on, with this brand new disease?

Those were some big misses. The mask thing should have been a slam dunk for someone of his background.

 

[RahSkiUMah]

Those were some big misses. The mask thing should have been a slam dunk for someone of his background.

The mask recommendation changed as new data became available and the rationale for using them changed. Health officials had previously recommended against cloth/surgical type masks as they don't block inhalation of the sized particles that can cause an infection, aka they are not preventative. A few things have since become apparent:

• Research showed asymptomatic and presymptomatic individuals shed the virus
• Masks other than N95 were shown to reduce the distance and size of infectious particles that leave a persons mouth/nose
  • With these findings, we can reduce transmission even if only partially with masking of infected individuals
  • Because there are many asymptomatic/presymptomatic individuals, they recommended masks for all
• Countries with widespread masking policies have fared better than those without

The rationale for masking changed from, "This is not preventative therefore they are not recommended" to, "There is actual risk reduction when wearing masks, therefore they are recommended." In science and medicine, you change your opinion/view as new/better info becomes available.

 

[PitinoFan]

No, it’s because they were concerned about taking masks away from health care professionals. I thought it was rather obvious at the time.

Fauci then, and Fauci now.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The mask recommendation changed as new data became available and the rationale for using them changed. Health officials had previously recommended against cloth/surgical type masks as they don't block inhalation of the sized particles that can cause an infection, aka they are not preventative. A few things have since become apparent:

• Research showed asymptomatic and presymptomatic individuals shed the virus
• Masks other than N95 were shown to reduce the distance and size of infectious particles that leave a persons mouth/nose
  • With these findings, we can reduce transmission even if only partially with masking of infected individuals
  • Because there are many asymptomatic/presymptomatic individuals, they recommended masks for all
• Countries with widespread masking policies have fared better than those without

The rationale for masking changed from, "This is not preventative therefore they are not recommended" to, "There is actual risk reduction when wearing masks, therefore they are recommended." In science and medicine, you change your opinion/view as new/better info becomes available.

Every individual with a microbiology, health care background knew all along masks are effective which was why the policy never made sense. It was solely to save PPE for health care workers, with a sprinkling of the general public is too dumb to wear masks properly which has proven to be the case. However being an optimist I think they can be trained. It was a dumb policy, and the reliance on cloth rather than quality procedural, surgical masks and respirators, lack of PA campaign is and ongoing debacle and tragedy.

 

[RahSkiUMah]

Every individual with a microbiology, health care background knew all along masks are effective which was why the policy never made sense. It was solely to save PPE for health care workers, with a sprinkling of the general public is too dumb to wear masks properly which has proven to be the case. However being an optimist I think they can be trained. It was a dumb policy, and the reliance on cloth rather than quality procedural, surgical masks and respirators, lack of PA campaign is and ongoing debacle and tragedy.

Yes saving PPE played a large part because at the time mask = medical mask, therefore if you recommend masking there will be a rush on medical masks.

Pitino, your video essentially exactly outlines what I just said. They would not recommend masks because they were seen as NOT "providing the perfect protection." That view then changed to (based on new data), wearing a mask may "be a very regular part, to how we prevent the spread of infection." What did I just say in my last post?

The rationale for masking changed from, "This is not preventative therefore they are not recommended" to, "There is actual risk reduction when wearing masks, therefore they are recommended."

 

[PitinoFan]

Yes saving PPE played a large part because at the time mask = medical mask, therefore if you recommend masking there will be a rush on medical masks.

Pitino, your video essentially exactly outlines what I just said. They would not recommend masks because they were seen as NOT "providing the perfect protection." That view then changed to, wearing a mask may "be a very regular part, to how we prevent the spread of infection." What did I just say in my last post?

The rationale for masking changed from, "This is not preventative therefore they are not recommended" to, "There is actual risk reduction when wearing masks, therefore they are recommended."

You just admitted that they were concerned about saving PPE. Everyone knows this. Fauci has been doing this too long for me to believe new information resulted in his sudden 180 on masks. Supply finally caught up with demand.

He was absolutely right about people touching their faces and masks. He touches his own mask all the time. PE made a good point above about homemade cloth masks. Those are almost worthless, and give some people a false sense of security. Sure, they will capture huge blobs of snot if you sneeze, but what about microscopic dropouts that can supposedly stay suspended in the air for hours. I also wonder how often people are washing those cloth masks.

 

[BleedGopher]

per ESPN:

The Ivy League is considering two possibilities for an altered football season due to the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, including forgoing the entire fall in favor of a seven-game, conference-only spring season that would begin in April and conclude in mid-May, according to a sourced report from TMG Sports.

According to the report, the Ivy League is also considering opening the 2020 season in late September with a seven-game schedule against only conference opponents. The Ivy League normally plays a 10-game schedule that tentatively begins this season on Sept. 19.

A spokesperson from the Ivy League would not confirm the report Monday but issued the following statement:

"The Ivy League Council of Presidents has been meeting frequently via videoconference this spring," the statement read. "Should the Council of Presidents make a determination regarding the status of intercollegiate athletic activity at Ivy League schools, that decision will be communicated first to Ivy League directors of athletics, coaches and student-athletes, followed by the wider Ivy League campus community, media and public."

Report: Ivy League season could move to spring

The Ivy League is considering whether to play a seven-game, conference-only football season this fall, or it could play a seven-game season that would begin in April according to a report from TMG Sports.

www.espn.com

Go Gophers!!

 

[MplsGopher]

You just admitted that they were concerned about saving PPE. Everyone knows this. Fauci has been doing this too long for me to believe new information resulted in his sudden 180 on masks. Supply finally caught up with demand.

He was absolutely right about people touching their faces and masks. He touches his own mask all the time. PE made a good point above about homemade cloth masks. Those are almost worthless, and give some people a false sense of security. Sure, they will capture huge blobs of snot if you sneeze, but what about microscopic dropouts that can supposedly stay suspended in the air for hours. I also wonder how often people are washing those cloth masks.

Risk can be reduced by a number greater than zero and less than 100%.

 

[RahSkiUMah]

You just admitted that they were concerned about saving PPE. Everyone knows this. Fauci has been doing this too long for me to believe new information resulted in his sudden 180 on masks. Supply finally caught up with demand.

He was absolutely right about people touching their faces and masks. He touches his own mask all the time. PE made a good point above about homemade cloth masks. Those are almost worthless, and give some people a false sense of security. Sure, they will capture huge blobs of snot if you sneeze, but what about microscopic dropouts that can supposedly stay suspended in the air for hours. I also wonder how often people are washing those cloth masks.

I never have nor will deny they were concerned about saving PPE, because the healthcare system is really the only thing that matters in this whole thing. Pretty much everyone is going to get it, it spreads too fast for that not to be a reality, vaccines can't come fast enough. The only thing that matters is keeping healthcare systems from being overwhelmed, because if that happens COVID related and unrelated deaths sky rocket.

Please go ahead and read this paper: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6498/1422

You still have some misconceptions that have been addressed in the medical/scientific community:

• " He was absolutely right about people touching their faces and masks. He touches his own mask all the time."
  • Influenza and colds predominantly spread through fomites/contact infection, this is part of the reason masks were viewed as ineffectual against COVID, however the literature has shown (from the linked paper):
    • However, a large proportion of the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) appears to be occurring through airborne transmission of aerosols produced by asymptomatic individuals during breathing and speaking (1—3).
• "PE made a good point above about homemade cloth masks. Those are almost worthless, and give some people a false sense of security. Sure, they will capture huge blobs of snot if you sneeze, but what about microscopic dropouts that can supposedly stay suspended in the air for hours. I also wonder how often people are washing those cloth masks."
  • From the paper: Masks provide a critical barrier, reducing the number of infectious viruses in exhaled breath, especially of asymptomatic people and those with mild symptoms (12) (see the figure). Surgical mask material reduces the likelihood and severity of COVID-19 by substantially reducing airborne viral concentrations (13). Masks can also protect uninfected individuals from SARS-CoV-2 aerosols and droplets (13, 14). Thus, it is particularly important to wear masks in locations with conditions that can accumulate high concentrations of viruses, such as health care settings, airplanes, restaurants, and other crowded places with reduced ventilation. The aerosol filtering efficiency of different materials, thicknesses, and layers used in properly fitted homemade masks was recently found to be similar to that of the medical masks that were tested (14). Thus, the option of universal masking is no longer held back by shortages.
  • Of course N95 > Surgical mask > Cloth mask....but if your only aim is to slow the spread, then a cloth mask is better than no masks.

 

[MplsGopher]

Thanks for the thoughtful posts Rah.

I disagree that everyone will get it before a vaccine arrives. But I’m mainly saying that out of hope, and not at all from expertise.

 

[RahSkiUMah]

Thanks for the thoughtful posts Rah.

I disagree that everyone will get it before a vaccine arrives. But I’m mainly saying that out of hope, and not at all from expertise.

Thanks MG, I should clarify that if done in an optimized way, we prevent a lot of deaths by encouraging heard immunity in the less vulnerable populations first. Which is why you won't see me pointing to increased cases as a measure of the sky is falling, but we have to keep an eye on the weeks concurrent and following that healthcare capacity and deaths don't also increase drastically. The current trend is that the younger population is the newer caseloads, hopefully this means a lot of new immunity with low complications.

 

[PitinoFan]

I never have nor will deny they were concerned about saving PPE, because the healthcare system is really the only thing that matters in this whole thing. Pretty much everyone is going to get it, it spreads too fast for that not to be a reality, vaccines can't come fast enough. The only thing that matters is keeping healthcare systems from being overwhelmed, because if that happens COVID related and unrelated deaths sky rocket.

Please go ahead and read this paper: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6498/1422

You still have some misconceptions that have been addressed in the medical/scientific community:

• " He was absolutely right about people touching their faces and masks. He touches his own mask all the time."
  • Influenza and colds predominantly spread through fomites/contact infection, this is part of the reason masks were viewed as ineffectual against COVID, however the literature has shown (from the linked paper):
    • However, a large proportion of the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) appears to be occurring through airborne transmission of aerosols produced by asymptomatic individuals during breathing and speaking (1—3).
• "PE made a good point above about homemade cloth masks. Those are almost worthless, and give some people a false sense of security. Sure, they will capture huge blobs of snot if you sneeze, but what about microscopic dropouts that can supposedly stay suspended in the air for hours. I also wonder how often people are washing those cloth masks."
  • From the paper: Masks provide a critical barrier, reducing the number of infectious viruses in exhaled breath, especially of asymptomatic people and those with mild symptoms (12) (see the figure). Surgical mask material reduces the likelihood and severity of COVID-19 by substantially reducing airborne viral concentrations (13). Masks can also protect uninfected individuals from SARS-CoV-2 aerosols and droplets (13, 14). Thus, it is particularly important to wear masks in locations with conditions that can accumulate high concentrations of viruses, such as health care settings, airplanes, restaurants, and other crowded places with reduced ventilation. The aerosol filtering efficiency of different materials, thicknesses, and layers used in properly fitted homemade masks was recently found to be similar to that of the medical masks that were tested (14). Thus, the option of universal masking is no longer held back by shortages.
  • Of course N95 > Surgical mask > Cloth mask....but if your only aim is to slow the spread, then a cloth mask is better than no masks.

What misconceptions? The study you linked says cloth masks are inferior to surgical masks , and it doesn’t address the issue of people not knowing how to wear them, constantly touching and grabbing them, and not washing them.

For the record, I wear a freaking mask. I have no choice, honestly, but I’m also fine with it. If I were to go to a Gopher football game, I would wear one, whether it was required or not.

 

[PitinoFan]

Risk can be reduced by a number greater than zero and less than 100%.

Well, I wasn’t making an argument against effectiveness. Back in March/April, when Fauci was telling the public not to wear masks, did you believe him? Of course you did.

 

[RahSkiUMah]

What misconceptions? The study you linked says cloth masks are inferior to surgical masks , and it doesn’t address the issue of people not knowing how to wear them, constantly touching and grabbing them, and not washing them.

For the record, I wear a freaking mask. I have no choice, honestly, but I’m also fine with it. If I were to go to a Gopher football game, I would wear one, whether it was required or not.

The misconceptions that I bulleted and addressed. Again, the view in the medical and scientific community has changed from "Masks are used for prevention" to "Masks are used for risk reduction and spread." So at the time of those recommendations, based on the information we had available, that recommendation made sense, we should preserve PPE for hospitals. But those recommendations were all built on data and viewpoints we have about pandemic flu. Then we started to find out new information, as I have already outlined.

Just because a handful of people don't know how to use a mask doesn't mean we should all not wear them.

Also you keep saying Fauci like he's the leader of everything, he's only reacting to what the science and medicine that comes available says. Would you rather people dig in to their original viewpoints even when confronted with strong evidence that says they were wrong?