All Things COVID-19 College Football Impact

[WriterGoph]

Just out of curiosity how many black individuals are posting on this site and how many of us are white. For those that are white posters I find it fascinating that you know so much one way or another. I especially love the white posters who pretend to be on board with the BLM movement, but really are just keyboard fighters. If any of you are really passionate about social injustice, social equality, or racial issues do something other than post about it and talk about how others on here have no idea. It’s amusing.

and to quote their website “ We disrupt the western prescribed nuclear family structure requirement...” which I’m not sure why it needs to be disrupted for everyone?

I'll think you'll see plenty of people "doing something about it" on November 3. Now THAT will be amusing

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The anecdote from the PSU Director May only be Penn State’s cohort of COV+, eleven players IIRC. We don’t know the criteria or grading scales. We don’t have a control group of similar aged college athletes. We know myocarditis is a thing with a number of viruses. It’s a serious problem, which is why I’m calling bul**** on this anecdote - where is the publicized data? Where is the interpretation by professional cardiology societies and clinical opinion leaders? Why is this being droppped in a local school board zoom meeting rather than in a journal or by the Big Ten medical consultants??

Some perspective. Understand there is a spectrum of opinions and levels of concern among professionals.



Syracuse offensive lineman Airon Servais had questions about the potential effects of myocarditis. He had heard about it in the news, as the Big Ten utilized a study showing its link to COVID-19 to justify the postponement of its fall season. Before opting into the 2020 season, he talked to multiple cardiologists to understand its effects.

“After having conversations like that, I feel a lot more comfortable moving forward,” Servais said.

Dr. Michael Ackerman is a genetic cardiologist at Mayo Clinic. He specializes in genomics and genotype-phenotype relationships in heritable cardiovascular diseases leading to sudden death. This includes myocarditis, which is an inflammation of the heart that’s linked to COVID-19. Ackerman answered The Daily Orange’s questions about its risk to athletes.

The Daily Orange: How is myocarditis linked to COVID-19 and what are the concerns with it?

Dr. Michael Ackerman: There are thousands of diagnoses of myocarditis in the United States each year before COVID. It’s a big deal. It’s the third-leading cause of sudden death in young people. Each year, there will be about 50 to 100 athletes from Little League to (the) professional level who will die suddenly. Of those, five to 10 of them will have died from myocarditis. We know what causes this inflammation of the heart muscle, which can lead to weakening of the heart muscle and heart failure.

D.O.: Are there any other viruses that can cause myocarditis?

M.A.: Yes, there are. Long before coronavirus, there are over 20 viruses that have been implicated with the ability for this kind of heart damage that we call myocarditis. We know that almost half, around 40% to 50%, of all cardiac transplant recipients require transplants because of the damage done by myocarditis. It is a very important entity but it is one that has been around long before coronavirus. This virus is yet another virus with the capability of infecting the heart muscle and potentially damaging the heart muscle. It’s created even more anxiety during this COVID-19 pandemic.

D.O.: How does this apply to young and healthy athletes who don’t have pre-existing conditions?

M.A.: For those individuals who are asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, this myocarditis thing is a non-issue. That’s because the virus hasn’t reached or done any damage to that viral infected person. It’s a very small number of otherwise healthy young people where the viral infection of SARS-CoV-2 is going to reach the heart, penetrate the heart, or do any measurable damage. Myocarditis taking center stage with athletes and discussing athletes risk is probably a bit overstated.

D.O.: What happens if an athlete gets SARS-CoV-2 myocarditis?

M.A.: If someone gets SARS-CoV-2 myocarditis, it’s potentially a big deal. But any other potential viral myocarditis is also a big deal. If there’s a substantial level of heart damage rendered, we could be talking (about) life-support devices and cardiac transplantation. That is so much the exception, rather than the rule in any myocarditis. This coming flu season, influenza can infect and damage the heart muscle. It’s really a matter of perspective and weighing everything in the balance.

D.O.: The Big Ten is using a study that said, “High sensitivity Troponin — a sensitive marker for cardiac cellular injury — was detected in 71% of the patients, and cardiac MRI revealed evidence of cardiac inflammation and/or scarring in 78% of the patients.” You’re not an athletic director or a school president, but what is your reaction to them using that study to justify canceling the season?

M.A.: Conferences who cancel the season may have very good reasons for doing so. If they sized up the weight of the evidence and said to stop for now, that’s justifiable. Other conferences say, “We’ve weighed everything in the balance and we’re going to press on carefully, but we can switch to no again if need be.” Both of those decisions can be equally right or appropriate. My point was to ask officials to look under the hood to see if there’s enough evidence in relation to the heart.

In other words, if the conference received enough evidence to say that we reached a tipping point because of a heart issue, then I cry foul. Look under the hood. Look at the strength of the evidence. If you look carefully enough, there’s simply not enough evidence to assign that much weight to COVID-19 and the heart as the driving reason for a season termination. If the conference said, “Even if we removed the heart issue, we would have agreed to cancel,” I would’ve said, ‘Great.’ I’m not an expert for those reasons, so I can’t speak on it.

Q&A: Mayo Clinic doctor advises about myocarditis risk for athletes

Myocarditis, or the inflammation of the heart, has been linked to COVID-19 and was a primary reason for the Big Ten's cancellation of football.

dailyorange.com

 

[alchemy2u]

Where is the actual study data? Why is this not public record??

It isn't "studies" it is actual data of occurrences. Health records of student athletes are not public record. They do not have to explain to you the details of what made their decision. This is part of the information that was collected to help them determine if the teams should play football.

Sebastianelli said that cardiac MRI scans revealed that approximately a third of Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 appeared to have myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle that can be fatal if left unchecked.

“When we looked at our COVID-positive athletes, whether they were symptomatic or not, 30 to roughly 35 percent of their heart muscles (are) inflamed,” Sebastianelli said. “And we really just don’t know what to do with it right now. It’s still very early in the infection. Some of that has led to the Pac-12 and the Big Ten’s decision to sort of put a hiatus on what’s happening.”

 

[alchemy2u]

You guys really don't seem to understand how science or the scientific method works, or how understanding moves forward. By all means continue to display your ignorance.

Ok, what science degrees to you have?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It isn't "studies" it is actual data of occurrences. Health records of student athletes are not public record. They do not have to explain to you the details of what made their decision. This is part of the information that was collected to help them determine if the teams should play football.

Sebastianelli said that cardiac MRI scans revealed that approximately a third of Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 appeared to have myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle that can be fatal if left unchecked.

“When we looked at our COVID-positive athletes, whether they were symptomatic or not, 30 to roughly 35 percent of their heart muscles (are) inflamed,” Sebastianelli said. “And we really just don’t know what to do with it right now. It’s still very early in the infection. Some of that has led to the Pac-12 and the Big Ten’s decision to sort of put a hiatus on what’s happening.”

That’s not data, it’s an anecdote. Much more information needed to draw any conclusions.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The plot thickens

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It does make you wonder. Where’s the data?

 

[GoGoGopher12]

How do they know the myocarditis in these athletes wasn't from the H1N1 or any other causing illnesses the players may have had in the past?

 

[alchemy2u]

The anecdote from the PSU Director May only be Penn State’s cohort of COV+, eleven players IIRC. We don’t know the criteria or grading scales. We don’t have a control group of similar aged college athletes. We know myocarditis is a thing with a number of viruses. It’s a serious problem, which is why I’m calling bul**** on this anecdote - where is the publicized data? Where is the interpretation by professional cardiology societies and clinical opinion leaders? Why is this being droppped in a local school board zoom meeting rather than in a journal or by the Big Ten medical consultants??

Some perspective. Understand there is a spectrum of opinions and levels of concern among professionals.



Syracuse offensive lineman Airon Servais had questions about the potential effects of myocarditis. He had heard about it in the news, as the Big Ten utilized a study showing its link to COVID-19 to justify the postponement of its fall season. Before opting into the 2020 season, he talked to multiple cardiologists to understand its effects.

“After having conversations like that, I feel a lot more comfortable moving forward,” Servais said.

Dr. Michael Ackerman is a genetic cardiologist at Mayo Clinic. He specializes in genomics and genotype-phenotype relationships in heritable cardiovascular diseases leading to sudden death. This includes myocarditis, which is an inflammation of the heart that’s linked to COVID-19. Ackerman answered The Daily Orange’s questions about its risk to athletes.

The Daily Orange: How is myocarditis linked to COVID-19 and what are the concerns with it?

Dr. Michael Ackerman: There are thousands of diagnoses of myocarditis in the United States each year before COVID. It’s a big deal. It’s the third-leading cause of sudden death in young people. Each year, there will be about 50 to 100 athletes from Little League to (the) professional level who will die suddenly. Of those, five to 10 of them will have died from myocarditis. We know what causes this inflammation of the heart muscle, which can lead to weakening of the heart muscle and heart failure.

D.O.: Are there any other viruses that can cause myocarditis?

M.A.: Yes, there are. Long before coronavirus, there are over 20 viruses that have been implicated with the ability for this kind of heart damage that we call myocarditis. We know that almost half, around 40% to 50%, of all cardiac transplant recipients require transplants because of the damage done by myocarditis. It is a very important entity but it is one that has been around long before coronavirus. This virus is yet another virus with the capability of infecting the heart muscle and potentially damaging the heart muscle. It’s created even more anxiety during this COVID-19 pandemic.

D.O.: How does this apply to young and healthy athletes who don’t have pre-existing conditions?

M.A.: For those individuals who are asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, this myocarditis thing is a non-issue. That’s because the virus hasn’t reached or done any damage to that viral infected person. It’s a very small number of otherwise healthy young people where the viral infection of SARS-CoV-2 is going to reach the heart, penetrate the heart, or do any measurable damage. Myocarditis taking center stage with athletes and discussing athletes risk is probably a bit overstated.

D.O.: What happens if an athlete gets SARS-CoV-2 myocarditis?

M.A.: If someone gets SARS-CoV-2 myocarditis, it’s potentially a big deal. But any other potential viral myocarditis is also a big deal. If there’s a substantial level of heart damage rendered, we could be talking (about) life-support devices and cardiac transplantation. That is so much the exception, rather than the rule in any myocarditis. This coming flu season, influenza can infect and damage the heart muscle. It’s really a matter of perspective and weighing everything in the balance.

D.O.: The Big Ten is using a study that said, “High sensitivity Troponin — a sensitive marker for cardiac cellular injury — was detected in 71% of the patients, and cardiac MRI revealed evidence of cardiac inflammation and/or scarring in 78% of the patients.” You’re not an athletic director or a school president, but what is your reaction to them using that study to justify canceling the season?

M.A.: Conferences who cancel the season may have very good reasons for doing so. If they sized up the weight of the evidence and said to stop for now, that’s justifiable. Other conferences say, “We’ve weighed everything in the balance and we’re going to press on carefully, but we can switch to no again if need be.” Both of those decisions can be equally right or appropriate. My point was to ask officials to look under the hood to see if there’s enough evidence in relation to the heart.

In other words, if the conference received enough evidence to say that we reached a tipping point because of a heart issue, then I cry foul. Look under the hood. Look at the strength of the evidence. If you look carefully enough, there’s simply not enough evidence to assign that much weight to COVID-19 and the heart as the driving reason for a season termination. If the conference said, “Even if we removed the heart issue, we would have agreed to cancel,” I would’ve said, ‘Great.’ I’m not an expert for those reasons, so I can’t speak on it.

Q&A: Mayo Clinic doctor advises about myocarditis risk for athletes

Myocarditis, or the inflammation of the heart, has been linked to COVID-19 and was a primary reason for the Big Ten's cancellation of football.

dailyorange.com

It is obvious in his statements that he is looking a generic situation without any of the details and information of the incidents at hand. He is not aware of the high rate that is being found by the doctors at PSU. He agrees that myocarditis is a very big deal and he says that the conference is justifiable in canceling the season if they thought the information warranted it.

The main reason you are calling BS is because you do not agree with the decision and are trying to poke holes in the reasoning.

 

[alchemy2u]

How do they know the myocarditis in these athletes wasn't from the H1N1 or any other causing illnesses the players may have had in the past?

As with most inflammations, it usually gets goes away over time. The problem is with excessive exercise when one has myocarditis.

 

[alchemy2u]

That’s not data, it’s an anecdote. Much more information needed to draw any conclusions.

30% is fckg 30%. Of course if I am in the room making the decision I will want more details, but you are not entitled to that.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It is obvious in his statements that he is looking a generic situation without any of the details and information of the incidents at hand. He is not aware of the high rate that is being found by the doctors at PSU. He agrees that myocarditis is a very big deal and he says that the conference is justifiable in canceling the season if they thought the information warranted it.

The main reason you are calling BS is because you do not agree with the decision and are trying to poke holes in the reasoning.

There are no “incidents” without data. That’s not how it works. Scientists and physicians don’t throw out percentages without context, numbers, methods.

With the media coverage this is receiving let’s see what sallys forth from the Big Ten and Penn State. There will be pressure coming from all quarters.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

30% is fckg 30%. Of course if I am in the room making the decision I will want more details, but you are not entitled to that.

If the percentage reflects 1 of 3 players or 3 of 9 it is not the foundation of public health or business decisions. Sorry. More data necessary.

 

[alchemy2u]

It does make you wonder. Where’s the data?

Really, so you put more credence into "reports" that say none of the schools are having a problem when a majority of the school refused to give any information?

 

[alchemy2u]

There are no “incidents” without data. That’s not how it works. Scientists and physicians don’t throw out percentages without context, numbers, methods.

With the media coverage this is receiving let’s see what sallys forth from the Big Ten and Penn State. There will be pressure coming from all quarters.

Again, what science degrees do you have? And how long have you been practicing scientific based decision making?

 

[hungan1]

There is a lot of viruses that can kill you out there. This Covid-19 virus seem to find a weak link in the human body and attack it. You mostly hear about the older vulnerable population who have weakened immune systems to begin with.

We will hear more about the final accounting of the damage among all segments of the population in a year or two as Covid-19 continue to manifest itself. This is scary almost to the point of a modern day bubonic plague.

This is scary because of the rapidity of spread and the indiscriminate nature of this virus to spread and multiply fast. Some young people seem to think they are not vulnerable or feel invincible to the point of having a Covid party. We shall see in a year's time how this compare to other diseases like influenza and pneumonia.

There are other scary stuff like necrotizing fasciitis - a serious bacterial infection that occurs where one can contract randomly.

It is unfortunate that this virus is being politicized. It does hold hold allegiance to any political party or to the rich and the powerful. It only searches for the next host to jump to multiply and spread.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Really, so you put more credence into "reports" that say none of the schools are having a problem when a majority of the school refused to give any information?
View attachment 9271

I wonder what results means.

Did they get exact answers about number of tests and positive rate or details or would "yeah we're testing and had X cases" count as 'results"?

I'm not sure everyone is releasing detailed standardized testing so I could see going lots of routes and counting different things as "provide athlete testing results".

 

[alchemy2u]

There is a lot of viruses that can kill you out there. This Covid-19 virus seem to find a weak link in the human body and attack it. You mostly hear about the older vulnerable population who have weakened immune systems to begin with.

We will hear more about the final accounting of the damage among all segments of the population in a year or two as Covid-19 continue to manifest itself. This is scary almost to the point of a moder day bubonic plague.

This is scary because of the rapidity of spread and the indiscriminate nature of this virus to spread and multiply fast. Some young people seem to think they are vulnerable. We shall see in a year's time how this compare to other diseases like influenza and pneumonia.

There are other scary stuff like necrotizing fasciitis - a serious bacterial infection that occurs where one can contract randomly.

It is unfortunate that this virus is being politicized. It does hold hold allegiance to any political party or to the rich and the powerful. It only searches for the next host to jump to multiply and spread.

Exactly. Too many want to characterize it like the flu. There is a micro-clotting mechanism that can take place that can cause permanent scaring and damage to various organs.

 

[alchemy2u]

I wonder what results means.

Did they get exact answers about number of tests and positive rate or details or would "yeah we're testing and had X cases" count as 'results"?

I'm not sure everyone is releasing detailed standardized testing so I could see going lots of routes and counting different things as "provide athlete testing results".

Read the article from ESPN. Many of the school refuse to discuss covid-19 testing (even the number of positive tests). Funny how many of those schools are the one deciding to "allow players to play the game" because they say it is safe. Now that is hiding data, telling the player it is safe, trust us, but we can't tell you if anyone has it or not.

Where is Pompus complaining about the hiding of ALL data from the schools that will be playing?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports...arly-half-power-5-disclose-covid-19-test-data

 

[Plato]

Where is the actual study data? Why is this not public record??

One would presume that if the data are sold and the sample was balanced as to players and controls (non players) that the material will be published in a reputable scientific journal.
You are very skeptical and piqued at authority figures, are you not?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Perspective

 

[Pompous Elitist]

More perspective

 

[Pompous Elitist]

 

[GopherGod]

It’s fine though. A scientist at Mayo who researches genetic cardiac diseases (which covid is not) tweeted that myocarditis shouldn’t be a reason to postpone football.

He is a trained cardiologist which all cardiologists are familiar with myocarditis as part of their training. The fact that he subspecialized in genetic disease for fellowship does not imply he hasn’t had ample training as a cardiologist in identifying and treating myocarditis along with hosts of other cardiovascular diseases. They are also trained on how to read and interpret clinical studies and if the design of those studies are bogus or not.

 

[Pete smith]

The topic should read 30% of Penn State athletes. In my research, no other B1G Doctor was involved in the statement.

 

[MplsGopher]

Ok, what science degrees to you have?

Keenly note how he refuses to answer any question near this. Yet demands credibility on the topic.

 

[MplsGopher]

That’s not data, it’s an anecdote. Much more information needed to draw any conclusions.

Decrees you ... a nobody.

 

[GopherGod]

Keenly note how he refuses to answer any question near this. Yet demands credibility on the topic.

similar to when I asked you numerous times in the past where you went to college and what your degree was in.

 

[MplsGopher]

There are no “incidents” without data. That’s not how it works. Scientists and physicians don’t throw out percentages without context, numbers, methods.

With the media coverage this is receiving let’s see what sallys forth from the Big Ten and Penn State. There will be pressure coming from all quarters.

This was done. MRI scans of X athletes that test positive for covid. 30% of those scans confirmed myocarditis.

There is nothing more to hand-waive about it. Stomp your feet all you want. It is a concerning anecdote.