All Things Class of 2020 Recruiting Thread

[BleedGopher]

Kid's old school!

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Go Gophers!!

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Kid's old school!

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Go Gophers!!

Three of those dudes were first round picks. We should feature them more often.

 

[Chico Gopher]

Win more and recruit better.

Let's say I'm a higher end recruit in Minnesota. Although I've always rooted for the Gophers and I'm interested in playing for the Gophers, my real dream is to be part of a blue blood program that's always in the hunt for a national title, with lots of national TV exposure and a reputation for getting guys drafted every summer.
I'm not as concerned about being the foundation that starts building a program as much as I'd like to be considered good enough that an already established program wants me because they believe I'm good enough to help them continue to be a national power.
Not only that, but there's a big part of me that wants to experience a different part of the country and see what kind of life I could build by starting from scratch in a place that nobody really knew who I was. (that last sentence 100% describes me at that age. Couldn't wait to leave southern Mn. and experience a different part of the country) Bottom line, I'd be fine playing for the Gophers, but I'd rather be playing for Kansas, Arizona, Duke, Kentucky, ect.

Exactly how is coach P supposed to recruit me better, knowing what my goals and aspirations are?

 

[Bigeddysprings]

Let's say I'm a higher end recruit in Minnesota. Although I've always rooted for the Gophers and I'm interested in playing for the Gophers, my real dream is to be part of a blue blood program that's always in the hunt for a national title, with lots of national TV exposure and a reputation for getting guys drafted every summer.
I'm not as concerned about being the foundation that starts building a program as much as I'd like to be considered good enough that an already established program wants me because they believe I'm good enough to help them continue to be a national power.
Not only that, but there's a big part of me that wants to experience a different part of the country and see what kind of life I could build by starting from scratch in a place that nobody really knew who I was. (that last sentence 100% describes me at that age. Couldn't wait to leave southern Mn. and experience a different part of the country) Bottom line, I'd be fine playing for the Gophers, but I'd rather be playing for Kansas, Arizona, Duke, Kentucky, ect.

Exactly how is coach P supposed to recruit me better, knowing what my goals and aspirations are?

If you did coach Pitino the great service of informing him what you would want. He should thank you, wish you well. and go get someone he can get. Someone that fits his program And not look back.

 

[Parcival]

Let's say I'm a higher end recruit in Minnesota. Although I've always rooted for the Gophers and I'm interested in playing for the Gophers, my real dream is to be part of a blue blood program that's always in the hunt for a national title, with lots of national TV exposure and a reputation for getting guys drafted every summer.
I'm not as concerned about being the foundation that starts building a program as much as I'd like to be considered good enough that an already established program wants me because they believe I'm good enough to help them continue to be a national power.
Not only that, but there's a big part of me that wants to experience a different part of the country and see what kind of life I could build by starting from scratch in a place that nobody really knew who I was. (that last sentence 100% describes me at that age. Couldn't wait to leave southern Mn. and experience a different part of the country) Bottom line, I'd be fine playing for the Gophers, but I'd rather be playing for Kansas, Arizona, Duke, Kentucky, ect.

Exactly how is coach P supposed to recruit me better, knowing what my goals and aspirations are?

Good thing you’re not a top tier recruit then. There’s no point in trying to speculate what motivates each of these 18 yr old kids... it varies case by case and if Minnesota plays its cards right then we’ll have a shot at top tier in-state talent.


our program offers some things that blue bloods can’t. Look at Ja Morant- he was just the #2 lottery pick out of Murray state. His stock wouldn’t have been nearly as high playing on a team full of stars ie. duke or UNC.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Good thing you’re not a top tier recruit then. There’s no point in trying to speculate what motivates each of these 18 yr old kids... it varies case by case and if Minnesota plays its cards right then we’ll have a shot at top tier in-state talent.


our program offers some things that blue bloods can’t. Look at Ja Morant- he was just the #2 lottery pick out of Murray state. His stock wouldn’t have been nearly as high playing on a team full of stars ie. duke or UNC.

Morant is a huge rarity and outlier. Majority of first round picks come from power five and we're in top 100 out of HS.

 

[John Galt]

Good thing you’re not a top tier recruit then. There’s no point in trying to speculate what motivates each of these 18 yr old kids... it varies case by case and if Minnesota plays its cards right then we’ll have a shot at top tier in-state talent.


our program offers some things that blue bloods can’t. Look at Ja Morant- he was just the #2 lottery pick out of Murray state. His stock wouldn’t have been nearly as high playing on a team full of stars ie. duke or UNC.

Morant is evidence that the NBA will find you regardless of where you play. He would have been the second pick in the draft whether he went to Duke or Murray St.

 

[bc2211]

Morant is evidence that the NBA will find you regardless of where you play. He would have been the second pick in the draft whether he went to Duke or Murray St.

I donno, that’s not really an argument to go to Murray State over any other school. All I read out of morant is that if you are a top 5 pick it doesn’t matter where you go. Problem is, most top 50 guys fight to get into the second round at some point. As a recruit, I’d be looking for a school that has a history of churning out those draft picks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bga1]

I donno, that’s not really an argument to go to Murray State over any other school. All I read out of morant is that if you are a top 5 pick it doesn’t matter where you go. Problem is, most top 50 guys fight to get into the second round at some point. As a recruit, I’d be looking for a school that has a history of churning out those draft picks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think your argument flies. Just a little recent history shows that starting at the 12th pick there are plenty of guys that get found out of schools that are in the Minnesota and below category in terms of the limelight:

2015 Murray St. UNLV, Utah, Arkansas, Wyoming and Georgia State all had first rounders selected 12 or after (non lottery)
2016 Vandy ( 2 guys), Marquette, FSU, St Joes, New Mexico State
2017 Creighton, Wake Forest, Utah and Colorado

If you are really good you probably get drafted. I think there is just as good of a chance of getting buried at Duke behind a lottery guy and not getting drafted as there is a chance of getting missed because you are at a middling school.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don't think your argument flies. Just a little recent history shows that starting at the 12th pick there are plenty of guys that get found out of schools that are in the Minnesota and below category in terms of the limelight:

2015 Murray St. UNLV, Utah, Arkansas, Wyoming and Georgia State all had first rounders selected 12 or after (non lottery)
2016 Vandy ( 2 guys), Marquette, FSU, St Joes, New Mexico State
2017 Creighton, Wake Forest, Utah and Colorado

If you are really good you probably get drafted. I think there is just as good of a chance of getting buried at Duke behind a lottery guy and not getting drafted as there is a chance of getting missed because you are at a middling school.

This is spot on.

 

[builtbadgers]

I don't think your argument flies. Just a little recent history shows that starting at the 12th pick there are plenty of guys that get found out of schools that are in the Minnesota and below category in terms of the limelight:

2015 Murray St. UNLV, Utah, Arkansas, Wyoming and Georgia State all had first rounders selected 12 or after (non lottery)
2016 Vandy ( 2 guys), Marquette, FSU, St Joes, New Mexico State
2017 Creighton, Wake Forest, Utah and Colorado

If you are really good you probably get drafted. I think there is just as good of a chance of getting buried at Duke behind a lottery guy and not getting drafted as there is a chance of getting missed because you are at a middling school.

Lots of truth in that but better spelled out by what coaches and what schools win the most games. Kids are attracted to the best coaches and the best schools period. The vast majority make their decision based on those two things, believing they will win and get a better chance at the NBA. If it did not matter, then they would just go anywhere. The reality is there are 10 coaches who wow prospects and parents by their mere presence. They dream of those better offers and they are better offers.

 

[bga1]

Lots of truth in that but better spelled out by what coaches and what schools win the most games. Kids are attracted to the best coaches and the best schools period. The vast majority make their decision based on those two things, believing they will win and get a better chance at the NBA. If it did not matter, then they would just go anywhere. The reality is there are 10 coaches who wow prospects and parents by their mere presence. They dream of those better offers and they are better offers.

I think it is probably true that they are 10 coaches who wow players and that makes players want to go there. I would also say it is no doubt true that Pitino does not wow players by his mere presence nor does the U of M wow players by the mere history or the whether or anything else. This same scenario also does not wow coaches into coaching at the U of M. That's why I am so passionate about supporting this young coach who communicates so well and whose future is ahead of him. He will need support to build the momentum he needs to someday make him the guy that wows players into coming here.

 

[RickDornsby]

If we think these kids should be trailblazers, why not try Mankato or NDSU (if they must stick with D1) if we want them to want to build a program? The Gophs are at least an established big 10 program that has had some success at some point in the past.

The NBA will find them anyways so why does it matter, right?

 

[bc2211]

I don't think your argument flies. Just a little recent history shows that starting at the 12th pick there are plenty of guys that get found out of schools that are in the Minnesota and below category in terms of the limelight:

2015 Murray St. UNLV, Utah, Arkansas, Wyoming and Georgia State all had first rounders selected 12 or after (non lottery)
2016 Vandy ( 2 guys), Marquette, FSU, St Joes, New Mexico State
2017 Creighton, Wake Forest, Utah and Colorado

If you are really good you probably get drafted. I think there is just as good of a chance of getting buried at Duke behind a lottery guy and not getting drafted as there is a chance of getting missed because you are at a middling school.

I think being buried is an interesting point, and thanks for pulling up some stats. I wish I had more time today for research.... in the past 5-10 years, how many non-lottery first rounders and second rounders have been drafted from, say Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and (who am I missing) versus the field? Certainly these aren’t the only schools from which kids get drafted, but you gotta play the odds and look at opportunities for development and utilization at each school. A lot of comments about being drafted for “simply being good” in this thread, but I think that understates the skill development that takes place in cbb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bga1]

If we think these kids should be trailblazers, why not try Mankato or NDSU (if they must stick with D1) if we want them to want to build a program? The Gophs are at least an established big 10 program that has had some success at some point in the past.

The NBA will find them anyways so why does it matter, right?

The reverse of that argument would be if every top team was loaded 1-13 with lottery type picks. Players# 7-13 would not get noticed or drafted. I think there is sane middle ground where it makes sense for players to sign with Minnesota types. If Suggs and Garcia were to commit soon to the U do you think they would produce a good enough team to get noticed in a big way? Yep and two more great ones would come on board and this would be a great national story.

 

[RickDornsby]

The reverse of that argument would be if every top team was loaded 1-13 with lottery type picks. Players# 7-13 would not get noticed or drafted. I think there is sane middle ground where it makes sense for players to sign with Minnesota types. If Suggs and Garcia were to commit soon to the U do you think they would produce a good enough team to get noticed in a big way? Yep and two more great ones would come on board and this would be a great national story.

I agree with your argument as well. I DO think that NBA caliber guys would get noticed at Minnesota. But I also find the anger towards guys that go to (probably get paid) and start for Duke “why don’t you go to Minnesota! Ja Morant got drafted and I like the Gophers” equally dumb.

Somewhat for the wrong reasons but I can’t blame the guys for going to Duke. I do think the “Minnesota/Pitino can’t develop NBA players” a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course he could probably do just fine at it. But he’s gonna have to get a bag man like his dad’s or pull a few unlikely NBA transformations to get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[bga1]

I agree with your argument as well. I DO think that NBA caliber guys would get noticed at Minnesota. But I also find the anger towards guys that go to (probably get paid) and start for Duke “why don’t you go to Minnesota! Ja Morant got drafted and I like the Gophers” equally dumb.

Somewhat for the wrong reasons but I can’t blame the guys for going to Duke. I do think the “Minnesota/Pitino can’t develop NBA players” a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course he could probably do just fine at it. But he’s gonna have to get a bag man like his dad’s or pull a few unlikely NBA transformations to get the benefit of the doubt.

Exactly to the bolded statement!

Take our roster from last year (there is a Hennie Youngman joke waiting to be teed up) how does everyone here think that Coach K would have done with that roster? I think Pitino did quite well with it considering that it was about half full of players with talent but in a weird sort of way. Murph the amazing board man who couldn't shoot and was just okay on defense. Coffey, the guy who could go all world or disappear but you could back off of him on defense and dare the three ball. Oturu, the great talent who wasn't quite physically ready to star at the Big Ten level. Gabe was really our best two way guy. McBrayer played good defense but had no offensive game all year. No depth.

Coach K never has to field that team. Of course he never recruits that team because he is a basketball god who wows the kid, not with his personality but with his resume. He has earned that.

We may never have a coach K here but we have to get behind someone long enough to give them a chance to get momentum and see what they can do. We did that for Clem, through the ups and downs (and there were plenty of downs) and it helped produce a decent program that was headed for great before the scandal.

Right now, if by some miracle we get Garcia and Suggs, I think this program will skyrocket.....under Pitino. Suggs is one and done but it would give the push we need.

 

[Gopherlife]

Exactly to the bolded statement!

Take our roster from last year (there is a Hennie Youngman joke waiting to be teed up) how does everyone here think that Coach K would have done with that roster? I think Pitino did quite well with it considering that it was about half full of players with talent but in a weird sort of way. Murph the amazing board man who couldn't shoot and was just okay on defense. Coffey, the guy who could go all world or disappear but you could back off of him on defense and dare the three ball. Oturu, the great talent who wasn't quite physically ready to star at the Big Ten level. Gabe was really our best two way guy. McBrayer played good defense but had no offensive game all year. No depth.

Coach K never has to field that team. Of course he never recruits that team because he is a basketball god who wows the kid, not with his personality but with his resume. He has earned that.

We may never have a coach K here but we have to get behind someone long enough to give them a chance to get momentum and see what they can do. We did that for Clem, through the ups and downs (and there were plenty of downs) and it helped produce a decent program that was headed for great before the scandal.

Right now, if by some miracle we get Garcia and Suggs, I think this program will skyrocket.....under Pitino. Suggs is one and done but it would give the push we need.

We are in agreement.

 

[Parcival]

I agree with your argument as well. I DO think that NBA caliber guys would get noticed at Minnesota. But I also find the anger towards guys that go to (probably get paid) and start for Duke “why don’t you go to Minnesota! Ja Morant got drafted and I like the Gophers” equally dumb.

Somewhat for the wrong reasons but I can’t blame the guys for going to Duke. I do think the “Minnesota/Pitino can’t develop NBA players” a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course he could probably do just fine at it. But he’s gonna have to get a bag man like his dad’s or pull a few unlikely NBA transformations to get the benefit of the doubt.

I find it funny that you try to disagree with my point and but end up conceding it in the first three sentences. All I said about Ja Morant is that he was the star of his team and it elevated his stock.

All of you saying that Morants stock would be the same at Duke as Murray St are nuts.
Morant would not have gotten 37 MPG with 16 shots every night with Zion and Barrett on the floor with him. It just wouldn’t happen.

All this is to say our program is in a good position to offer some top IN-STATE talent a chance to make headlines and stay home instead of going to bluebloods.

 

[RickDornsby]

I find it funny that you try to disagree with my point and but end up conceding it in the first three sentences. All I said about Ja Morant is that he was the star of his team and it elevated his stock.

All of you saying that Morants stock would be the same at Duke as Murray St are nuts.
Morant would not have gotten 37 MPG with 16 shots every night with Zion and Barrett on the floor with him. It just wouldn’t happen.

All this is to say our program is in a good position to offer some top IN-STATE talent a chance to make headlines and stay home instead of going to bluebloods.

I find it funny that you disagree with my point and go further in and argue that guys should start going to Murray State more often so thy can get their minutes.

Both can be true. Likely, an NBA star SHOULD do just the same at Minnesota. But sometimes the exposure or supporting cast at a blueblood helps big time. I’m not sure if Tyus Jones would’ve had the same stock if he was the 100% focal point of the offense all year at the U.

College basketball isn’t as much of an in-state game as football. Sure, there’s your Coffey or Oturu and others but just given roster size, money, and school prestige, there’s a lot more exodus of all states. The weird thing is that people keep waiting for this team of all the top Minnesota kids here or all Illinois kids at Illinois to have a magical run...and it never happens. But people hope for it every year and are let down basically every year.

 

[alchemy2u]

I find it funny that you disagree with my point and go further in and argue that guys should start going to Murray State more often so thy can get their minutes.

Both can be true. Likely, an NBA star SHOULD do just the same at Minnesota. But sometimes the exposure or supporting cast at a blueblood helps big time. I’m not sure if Tyus Jones would’ve had the same stock if he was the 100% focal point of the offense all year at the U.

College basketball isn’t as much of an in-state game as football. Sure, there’s your Coffey or Oturu and others but just given roster size, money, and school prestige, there’s a lot more exodus of all states. The weird thing is that people keep waiting for this team of all the top Minnesota kids here or all Illinois kids at Illinois to have a magical run...and it never happens. But people hope for it every year and are let down basically every year.

It all depends upon the player. If your game is more of a supporting role, then it helps to have very good players. Like Tyus, he isn’t the type of player to carry all of the weight and looks better when he can distribute the ball other stars. Players that can be “the man” could get more playing time to demonstrate their abilities on a team that isn’t full of similar players fighting for that time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GopherBlood777]

 

[bemidjigopher]

Nice player, kind of reminds me of the Crowley kid last year we targeted. Can guard 1-3, could take him and one of the instate wings

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[builtbadgers]

Exactly to the bolded statement!

Take our roster from last year (there is a Hennie Youngman joke waiting to be teed up) how does everyone here think that Coach K would have done with that roster? I think Pitino did quite well with it considering that it was about half full of players with talent but in a weird sort of way. Murph the amazing board man who couldn't shoot and was just okay on defense. Coffey, the guy who could go all world or disappear but you could back off of him on defense and dare the three ball. Oturu, the great talent who wasn't quite physically ready to star at the Big Ten level. Gabe was really our best two way guy. McBrayer played good defense but had no offensive game all year. No depth.

Coach K never has to field that team. Of course he never recruits that team because he is a basketball god who wows the kid, not with his personality but with his resume. He has earned that.

We may never have a coach K here but we have to get behind someone long enough to give them a chance to get momentum and see what they can do. We did that for Clem, through the ups and downs (and there were plenty of downs) and it helped produce a decent program that was headed for great before the scandal.

Right now, if by some miracle we get Garcia and Suggs, I think this program will skyrocket.....under Pitino. Suggs is one and done but it would give the push we need.

You have to win big with the guys get to get to the better guys. Jay Wright did it, Tony Bennett did it. The scouted and developed at a way higher level. I support Pitino doing that here but kids have zero doubt that there are dozens of better coaches and they have proof. They won conference titles , more than one, early on with classes not highly regarded. You have to get it done by winning in a big way over a long time. It has been done with non blue blood offers with kids from all over. Those coaches are more dynamic, they are and were recognized early on by every basketball mind. Prove it by winning big.

 

[60's Guy]

You have to win big with the guys get to get to the better guys. Jay Wright did it, Tony Bennett did it. The scouted and developed at a way higher level. I support Pitino doing that here but kids have zero doubt that there are dozens of better coaches and they have proof. They won conference titles , more than one, early on with classes not highly regarded. You have to get it done by winning in a big way over a long time. It has been done with non blue blood offers with kids from all over. Those coaches are more dynamic, they are and were recognized early on by every basketball mind. Prove it by winning big.

Lots of truth. But there is not just one path to success. Pitino was Big Ten Coach of the Year. We had a nice team and Springs was injured, then Mason. The roster couldn’t compensate. We are 13 and 3 Top 25 and the roster once again melts away. We win a game versus Louisville in the NCCA but Jordan Murphy and Matz can’t go. That’s 3 years in a row where we could make a run, positioned to do so, but circumstances beyond the norm sabotage the opportunity. Nobody credits the NIT Championship but it was impressive for what we had.

Yes, absolutely the roster could have been constructed better. It wasn’t.
Pitino is still young. There are signs he can win, evaluate and adjust.

Different paths...it’s far from hopeless or any proof he can’t succeed.

John Wooden went a long time scuffling along before he met a booster. Somehow Pitino needs more better players. Developing talent is only one part. I like the current roster. I have seen signs he can get it done....it won’t be like Bennett, Boeheim, or Texas Tech does it. Or Bo Ryan did it. But it could still happen.

 

[60's Guy]

For example BuiltBadgers:
It took Jay Wright 19 (nineteen) years to become the guy you referenced as an Icon, a pillar to reach that status as a Head Coach, after adding 10 years as an assistant. That’s 29 years it took Jay Wright to become Jay Wright today. Pitino is still learning on the job in the Big Ten.

Jay Wright only has become successful in the Big East after Notre Dame, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, West Virginia all left the conference. Jay Wright Big East first 12 years...5th, 3rd, 11th, 3rd, 1st, 7th, 8th, 4th, 2nd, 9th, 13th, 7th when the conference was together.

Different paths. Given the chance, I believe Richard Pitino can become an Icon Coach at Minnesota. But, he is only one third of the way along the path Jay Wright took to reach that level.

I think Pitino will get to that level. However, it may or may not be at Minnesota. I’m looking forward to this season!

Patience and perspective?

 

[Blackhammer]

If we could get say third ,fourth,fifth best in state guys with consistency it would go a long ways to raising the bar for the program It’s understandably difficult to get the Tre Jones or Suggs level of player Still holding out a little hope on Jalen He could go to the Gophers and be a legend here. I do feel he didn’t just put the Gophers on his list as a curtesy but unlike others seriously considers Minnesota. How about football Quarterback and basketball quarterback as a fresh?

 

[builtbadgers]

For example BuiltBadgers:
It took Jay Wright 19 (nineteen) years to become the guy you referenced as an Icon, a pillar to reach that status as a Head Coach, after adding 10 years as an assistant. That’s 29 years it took Jay Wright to become Jay Wright today. Pitino is still learning on the job in the Big Ten.

Jay Wright only has become successful in the Big East after Notre Dame, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, West Virginia all left the conference. Jay Wright Big East first 12 years...5th, 3rd, 11th, 3rd, 1st, 7th, 8th, 4th, 2nd, 9th, 13th, 7th when the conference was together.

Different paths. Given the chance, I believe Richard Pitino can become an Icon Coach at Minnesota. But, he is only one third of the way along the path Jay Wright took to reach that level.

I think Pitino will get to that level. However, it may or may not be at Minnesota. I’m looking forward to this season!

Patience and perspective?

Wooden won 6 straight conference titles to start his career ! Jay Wright had a far better start in his first 6 years at Hofstra and again at Nova. You listed those years at Nova . TWO 3RDS AND a Conference title in the first 6 dwarfs the historical losing we have seen here.

 

[alchemy2u]

Wooden won 6 straight conference titles to start his career ! Jay Wright had a far better start in his first 6 years at Hofstra and again at Nova. You listed those years at Nova . TWO 3RDS AND a Conference title in the first 6 dwarfs the historical losing we have seen here.

You also forget Pitino's first year at FIU where he built a very competitive team out of the mess that Isiah Thomas left. FIU had it's first winning season in 13 years, the defense ranked eighth in the country, only had six returning players, only five scholarship players, set school records and got them within one win of an NCAA berth on a team.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/3/11/4090004/richard-pitino-fiu-coaching-record-sub-belt-championship

Pitino himself admits that he was giving a B1G job very early in his career. That also means that he has had to learn on the job against the some of the very best coaches in the country. Would it have been nice if he could have spent a few more years in the "minor leagues"? Of course, but we took the chance and it is beginning to payoff. It will take more consistent success on the court before more of the local kids believe that the grass is just as green at the U.

 

[vic0404]

Wooden won 6 straight conference titles to start his career ! Jay Wright had a far better start in his first 6 years at Hofstra and again at Nova. You listed those years at Nova . TWO 3RDS AND a Conference title in the first 6 dwarfs the historical losing we have seen here.

Built Im right with you on much of what you write. People keep wanting to give someone more and more time to see results, yet you cant just keep hoping that positive results will come about because Pitino is young, or because there have been rays of sunshine here and there. If recruiting would be going better I would be more positive about the direction, but at this point, it is less than ideal (especially on the MN scene).