All Things Bowling Green at Minnesota Post-Game Thread

[Bob_Loblaw]

I've seen people compare this other bad losses in Gopher football but I don't think you are all considering this loss in the context of where we were as a program.

NDSU first loss - We were at the start of a complete rebuild in 2007. It was Brew's first season. We had already lost to Bowling Green and Florida Atlantic. We all knew we would be REALLY bad and we were. The loss stunk but we were probably only even favored because NDSU hadn't started playing and beating other FBS teams yet.

South Dakota loss - This one was horrific but it was also the moment where we all knew the Brew years were over. It was the exclamation point of a failed tenure and we knew Brew wouldn't see another year in Dinkytown. That's not an excuse for the loss but it was part of the thing that cost the coach his job. Last week, we were wondering if PJ would leave us for USC. Again, drastically different stages of a program.

Losses to NMSU and NDSU in 2011- These stunk but again this was in the first season of another complete rebuild. I will never judge a coach and a program but W/L's in the first season, especially in football.

I really can't even squint and see anything else anyone could realistically argue was on this level of a loss. Maybe the blowouts at the end of PJ year 1 but that's silly to me. It was PJ's first year and we got killed by two good teams.

 

[MplsGopher]

we were probably only even favored because NDSU hadn't started playing and beating other FBS teams yet.

This point is wrong, but it doesn't take away from your overall points.

So a small correction: NDSU beat Ball State in 2006, and as we know had the game winning FG against the Gophers that year blocked, then in 2007 before they beat us they beat Central Michigan. All of these on the road.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

No! Because the O-line was playing infinitly better in that game. You have to judge on the current situation and the O-line was invisible on Saturday. Our defense was absolutely dominating the game as well at that point. Punt it away and start over on the next series.

Yeah, the play made zero sense. Our defense was dominating and he should have had zero faith our OL would dominate the LOS on that play, it was a brutal decision.

 

[LakevilleBro]

I'm not saying I like this trend in college football, but you see this exact way of play calling with some of the best offenses/QBs in college football. It is difficult to watch, but it's not a Gopher thing.

I agree, other schools do this, but it is different. The other schools, decide on a play, much quicker, and do not put so much pressure on the QB, with a last second play call. The other schools also have more creative play-calling than we do.
As FredCoxRocks said above: "It takes a lot of time to decide to run up the 1-hole, or 2-hole".

 

[3399]

I do agree with you that everything (well, almost everything) seemed to go just right for us in 2019. However, in the Purdue game, I don't think those missing offensive starters were the problem. At QB, Plummer replaced Sindelar, had a pretty good game, and probably has been a better QB than the one he replaced. Moore's injury allowed David Bell to step up and he's had a great career (he had 8 receptions for 114 yards in that game). I'd say a much bigger problem for Purdue was pass defense as Tanner had a game for the ages in that one (21-22 for 396 yards, 4 touchdowns, no interceptions).

Plummer was pulled yesterday against Illinois. He is a very mediocre quarterback. Give them Moore AND Bell and they probably win the game. It's all water under the bridge. The point is, Minnesota was extremely fortunate that season. Even the GA Southern game. Had GA Southern had their stud starting QB, they probably win that game. Would you rather face Nebraska with Martinez or the guy that filled in that day? It would be interesting to go back and see how many of Fleck's wins were impacted by an injury to an opponent's starting QB. Cuz remember, Colorado lost their starter just before the season and it is just killing their season. They went from being a contender in the PAC to a bottom feeder. However, MN deserves credit for getting the job done.

 

[Word]

Our coaches consistently make Tanner Morgan look over to the sidelines, multiple times, as the play clock is winding down. Then they change the play, and Morgan has to frantically change the play at the line, and the ball is snapped, at the last second. This happens way too often. This is not putting Morgan in a position to succeed. This is what you do, when you have a very young QB, not a Senior QB.

Seems like every time they change the play at the last second it ends up being a yard run up the middle.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Can't remember where I heard or read this, but "supposedly," D. Wright got in some kind of argument on the sidelines- it was speculated that he was upset about not getting the ball thrown his way - and he got benched for the rest of the game.

So, apparently, a Gopher cannot be benched for bad play, but complaining will get you benched.

 

[forever a gopher]

Scoggins -- you can say it's a troll article, fine, but I think he simply his a lot of true points


Typical Gophers.

This is what they do, who they are. The football equivalent of a buzzkill.

Pitch a shutout in an impressive road win one week, look totally unprepared in producing one of the most inexcusable losses in program history the next week.

And P.J. Fleck wonders why a large metropolis looks down at his program with such negativity and skepticism. Because of days like Saturday, a Homecoming horror show of the highest order.

This latest embarrassment belongs entirely to Fleck. All of it. The stain of a 14-10 loss to Bowling Green can't be scrubbed away with catchphrases.

The Gophers suffered defeat as 31-point favorites, making it one of the 20 biggest upsets in college football in several decades based on point spread.

Bowling Green had lost 10 consecutive games to FBS opponents. The Falcons roster features 71 players who graduated high school in either 2020 or 2021, making them one of the youngest teams in the nation.

None of that mattered one iota. They were the better team in every facet. Coaching. Offense. Defense. Special teams.

"Every single thing that happened out there on that field falls on me," said Fleck, who is now 0-17 when trailing at halftime.

What a damning stat. Not once in 17 tries has Fleck turned a halftime deficit into victory. Not even a 7-3 deficit to Bowling Green. Nope, that mountain was too high to conquer.

A head coach is responsible for his team's preparedness and game management, and Fleck flunked both areas Saturday.

His team committed dumb penalties. The offense was … it's hard to even describe that mess. Special teams turned back into a pumpkin. And weird clock management and play-calling put the cherry on top.

"I'm not sure what football team was out there," Fleck said.

The offense on display was so discombobulated and unimaginative that it should be shipped back to the Stone Age. Coordinator Mike Sanford's play-calling showed zero trust in anything other than runs up in the middle.

If this is all Sanford's doing — putting together a plan less creative than hot dish — and not a directive from Fleck, then give co-offensive coordinator Matt Simon a shot at play-calling.

The execution of that humdrum game plan was equally bad. The veteran offensive line — recipient of considerable hype and praise — whiffed repeatedly against Bowling Green's blitzes. Tanner Morgan had his worst performance in a Gophers uniform. And the receivers had trouble getting open down the field.

The Fleck/Sanford scheme is predicated on power running, but the lack of balance makes it absurdly predictable. They either hate to pass or don't trust the passing game, and neither one of those is good.

Second quarter, Fleck opted to go for it on fourth-and-1 from his own 29. I didn't necessarily mind the gamble, but Sanford called a slow-developing run play that lost 5 yards. Bowling Green turned that gift into a touchdown.

Third quarter, the Gophers faced third-and-6 at the Bowling Green 33. Sanford called a run that lost a yard. Fleck then sent out kicker Matthew Trickett, who missed a 52-yard field goal.

Strange.

Fourth quarter, the Gophers trailed 14-10 when they started a drive at their 8 with 7:35 left. They proceeded to operate with the urgency of a sloth. So methodical in getting plays signaled in and then snapping the ball that you'd thought they had a 10-point lead.

That drive went nowhere, but afforded two more chances, Morgan ended their final two possessions after one play by throwing consecutive interceptions.

"You talk about being the reason at the quarterback position," Morgan said. "Today I was the opposite of the reason. It's 100 percent on me."

His stat line looked more like a freshman making his first start than a fourth-year starter: 5-of-13 passing for 59 yards with two interceptions and lost fumble.

Morgan's regression from 2019 is significant. Fleck brushed aside a question about whether he will consider a change at that position.

"You could talk about that at every position because I don't think anybody played well," he said.

Or coached well.

Put those two together, and this is the result. Another signature Gophers loss.

The only thing I take issue with is the line that they operated with the speed of a sloth in the 4th quarter. This would insinuate that they have the capability of moving faster. The fact that a P5 program doesn’t have a viable 2-minute offense is infuriating, especially considering PJ has had 5 years to install one. I get that “the ball is the program” and TOP is his favorite stat. You don’t have to run it all the time. But for F’s sake, you should have a hurry up offense ready when you need it. Or at the very least, stop the “look to the sidelines” bullshit and just run the F’n play you originally had called and give Morgan one alternate play to check to at the line of scrimmage. He’s a senior, not a freshman. He should be able to run the offense without you holding his hand.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Plummer was pulled yesterday against Illinois. He is a very mediocre quarterback. Give them Moore AND Bell and they probably win the game. It's all water under the bridge. The point is, Minnesota was extremely fortunate that season. Even the GA Southern game. Had GA Southern had their stud starting QB, they probably win that game. Would you rather face Nebraska with Martinez or the guy that filled in that day? It would be interesting to go back and see how many of Fleck's wins were impacted by an injury to an opponent's starting QB. Cuz remember, Colorado lost their starter just before the season and it is just killing their season. They went from being a contender in the PAC to a bottom feeder. However, MN deserves credit for getting the job done.

I'm not going to make excuses when injuries impact our game (Mo and CAB out yesterday) and I'm surely not going to apologize when it helps us win games. Depth is part of football, it's part of the preparation.

 

[DocfromDarwin]

Can't remember where I heard or read this, but "supposedly," D. Wright got in some kind of argument on the sidelines- it was speculated that he was upset about not getting the ball thrown his way - and he got benched for the rest of the game.

So, apparently, a Gopher cannot be benched for bad play, but complaining will get you benched.

Stupid fleck. One of his best options is benched?? He’ll be lucky if the kid doesn’t transfer
Flecks is more concerned with his damn culture and what color uniforms to use than in actual x’s and o’s He needs to find another place to promote himself

 

[DocfromDarwin]

My take? These guys should be humiliated by how they played, but I doubt many will be. LOTS of huge egos in college football amongst both coaches and players, hence Fleck's tired line of "we'll row through this" BS at the press conference.

Note to coach: Nobody wants to hear about "rowing the boat" when you just got done sucking monkey balls. Save that rah rah stuff for the locker room. Minnesota sports fans have had a gut full of that kind of useless talk over the years and it won't mean jack squat to the majority of the public.

Just friggin' get the job done. Period.

You are correct. Sick of the damn rowboat schtick. What a joke. Bush league all the way. I hope fleck leaves

 

[I'm A Maroon 2!]

Time to trade PJ for Clay Helton? It would have to be a package deal with Sanford included though!

 

[Unregistered User]

"It takes a lot of time to decide to run up the 1-hole, or 2-hole".

Sometimes takes a really nice dinner and bottle of wine.

[edit] tonight it will be a steak, quartered little potatoes and a veg medley all on the offset smoker, along with a 2017 Classified Cab.

 

[MplsGopher]

If you're trying to go up someone's hole where they do number 1 ... you've got serious issues.

 

[BTChamp]

"It takes a lot of time to decide to run up the 1-hole, or 2-hole".

There's websites for that sort of "entertainment".

 

[Six to Eight]

Scoggins -- you can say it's a troll article, fine, but I think he simply his a lot of true points

I thought the Scroggins article was great. Not sure how anyone being honest with themselves could call it trolling. It was slightly caustic at some points, but deservedly so, and reflects the anger of many at just how bad yesterday's performance was.

After seeing the video of PJ crowdsurfing in the locker room after a very underwhelming performance against Miami of Ohio, followed by the rancid fecal matter of a game he presided over yesterday, you kind of wonder how much his relentless optimism and enthusiasm might impede his ability to learn from failures. I hope PJ improves as a coach, but it's safe to say there are some fair questions that he needs to address right now.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Someone tweeted this - have not done my own research. If this is accurate, it's interesting.
Gophers record under Fleck 28-21.
Gophers record in last 49 games before Fleck: 28-21.
Gophers record in last 49 games under Mason: 29-20.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[MplsGopher]

I thought the Scroggins article was great. Not sure how anyone being honest with themselves could call it trolling. It was slightly caustic at some points, but deservedly so, and reflects the anger of many at just how bad yesterday's performance was.

After seeing the video of PJ crowdsurfing in the locker room after a very underwhelming performance against Miami of Ohio, followed by the rancid fecal matter of a game he presided over yesterday, you kind of wonder how much his relentless optimism and enthusiasm might impede his ability to learn from failures. I hope PJ improves as a coach, but it's safe to say there are some fair questions that he needs to address right now.

Well said!!

 

[BoatRacer]

If we can run these next five ... and manage to beat one of Iowa or Wisc, then 10-2 is still on the table.

It's going to take a serious gut-check and a serious change on offense.

With PJ/ Sanford duo in charge it is like unicorn chasing.i just want that dumbass Sanford to be gone asap before he fucked the team up even further. Any one remember Bob diaco. He is the offense version of BD.

 

[MplsGopher]

Someone tweeted this - have not done my own research. If this is accurate, it's interesting.
Gophers record under Fleck 28-21.
Gophers record in last 49 games before Fleck: 28-21.
Gophers record in last 49 games under Mason: 29-20.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Not a fan of this, because it steamrolls over season-to-season trends. That said:

Mason:

2002	Minnesota	8–5	3–5	7th	W Music City
2003	Minnesota	10–3	5–3	T–4th	W Sun	17	20
2004	Minnesota	7–5	3–5	8th	W Music City
2005	Minnesota	7–5	4–4	7th	L Music City
2006	Minnesota	6–7	3–5	T–6th	L Insight

Kill/Claeys:

2012	Minnesota	6–7	2–6	T–5th (Legends)	L Texas
2013	Minnesota	8–5	4–4	4th (Legends)	L Texas
2014	Minnesota	8–5	5–3	T–2nd (West)	L Citrus

2015	Minnesota	6–7	2–6	T–5th (West)	W Quick Lane
2016	Minnesota	9–4	5–4	T–4th (West)	W Holiday

Fleck:

2017	Minnesota	5–7	2–7	6th (West)
2018	Minnesota	7–6	3–6	T–5th (West)	W Quick Lane
2019	Minnesota	11–2	7–2	T–1st (West)	W Outback	10	10
2020	Minnesota	3–4	3–4	4th (West)
2021	Minnesota	2–2	0–1	(West)

 

[Gophergrandpa]

We play slow down the game, take every second off the game clock football so much that it seems we are incapable of ever effectively playing hurry up. We never stress defenses via quick strikes and sudden action. We go really, really slow all the time before running painfully obvious plays that the defense has, thanks to our courteousness, set up well to stop. The Gopher offense is like a basketball or hockey team that refuses to play quick transition, ever. Always slow down play, tediously set up and, coincidentally, allow the defense to recover its bearings and set up as well. PJ is, I believe, 0-17 at the U when he is behind at the end of the first half. That remarkable statistically improbable record makes sense when you see how conservative + predictable + slow PJ is on offense—whether ahead or behind.

 

[MRJ]

You are correct. Sick of the damn rowboat schtick. What a joke. Bush league all the way. I hope fleck leaves

I'm not willing to go that far. What I'm asking for is to simply "read the room." Virtually no average Minnesota sports fan is going to care about "rowing through" when you suck ass on the field. Ditch the nifty catch phrases and perform. Period.

 

[Some guy]

Our coaches consistently make Tanner Morgan look over to the sidelines, multiple times, as the play clock is winding down. Then they change the play, and Morgan has to frantically change the play at the line, and the ball is snapped, at the last second. This happens way too often. This is not putting Morgan in a position to succeed. This is what you do, when you have a very young QB, not a Senior QB.

That is the same thing they did in 2019. And what he did at western Michigan before MN

if you don’t like it, you should follow someone else until a coaching change is made because it isn’t going away.

 

[Some guy]

We play slow down the game, take every second off the game clock football so much that it seems we are incapable of ever effectively playing hurry up. We never stress defenses via quick strikes and sudden action. We go really, really slow all the time before running painfully obvious plays that the defense has, thanks to our courteousness, set up well to stop. The Gopher offense is like a basketball or hockey team that refuses to play quick transition, ever. Always slow down play, tediously set up and, coincidentally, allow the defense to recover its bearings and set up as well. PJ is, I believe, 0-17 at the U when he is behind at the end of the first half. That remarkable statistically improbable record makes sense when you see how conservative + predictable + slow PJ is on offense—whether ahead or behind.

That’s the entire strategy. PJ Fleck is trying to be the Bo Ryan of college football. If you want something different than that, you’re going to need a head coach change. Sorry

 

[Some guy]

I've seen people compare this other bad losses in Gopher football but I don't think you are all considering this loss in the context of where we were as a program.

NDSU first loss - We were at the start of a complete rebuild in 2007. It was Brew's first season. We had already lost to Bowling Green and Florida Atlantic. We all knew we would be REALLY bad and we were. The loss stunk but we were probably only even favored because NDSU hadn't started playing and beating other FBS teams yet.

South Dakota loss - This one was horrific but it was also the moment where we all knew the Brew years were over. It was the exclamation point of a failed tenure and we knew Brew wouldn't see another year in Dinkytown. That's not an excuse for the loss but it was part of the thing that cost the coach his job. Last week, we were wondering if PJ would leave us for USC. Again, drastically different stages of a program.

Losses to NMSU and NDSU in 2011- These stunk but again this was in the first season of another complete rebuild. I will never judge a coach and a program but W/L's in the first season, especially in football.

I really can't even squint and see anything else anyone could realistically argue was on this level of a loss. Maybe the blowouts at the end of PJ year 1 but that's silly to me. It was PJ's first year and we got killed by two good teams.

I agree with that. The only loss of the PJ tenure that competes is 2018 Nebraska. Had they not upset Wisconsin being blown out by an 0-6 Nebraska team would’ve kept them out of a bowl in his second year. From that game to the Wisconsin win were the highest level of doubt I’ve had in the program under fleck. I had more doubt then than I do right now.

to me, those are his two worst losses at MN

 

[builtbadgers]

Yesterday for me but that is not that big a deal and not close to thinking Fleck is not the right guy.

 

[#2Gopher]

Can't remember where I heard or read this, but "supposedly," D. Wright got in some kind of argument on the sidelines- it was speculated that he was upset about not getting the ball thrown his way - and he got benched for the rest of the game.

So, apparently, a Gopher cannot be benched for bad play, but complaining will get you benched.

This is a tough one. Having now read this said by Short, I'll give it a lot of creditability due to my respect for him as he has earned it. Hopefully Fleck and Wright can smooth this one out for the good of time. We don't need cancer in the locker room.

 

[GFBfan]

Our coaches consistently make Tanner Morgan look over to the sidelines, multiple times, as the play clock is winding down. Then they change the play, and Morgan has to frantically change the play at the line, and the ball is snapped, at the last second. This happens way too often. This is not putting Morgan in a position to succeed. This is what you do, when you have a very young QB, not a Senior QB.

It’s also what you do when you have no faith in your players to execute a play properly against whatever the defense is showing and instead try to call the perfect play all the time. It doesn’t give the players on the field much time to adjust their thinking to the play call at the last moment.

 

[goldengophers]

It’s also what you do when you have no faith in your players to execute a play properly against whatever the defense is showing and instead try to call the perfect play all the time. It doesn’t give the players on the field much time to adjust their thinking to the play call at the last moment.

It honestly reminds me of DIII play calling from my time at Gustavus when the team was beyond horrendous. It's attempting to constantly adjust play by play because you cannot properly install your offense during the week, I'd really love to be a fly on the wall during the week because it has to be an utter mess. Is any scenario planning or game theory taking place?

 

[GophersInIowa]

Someone tweeted this - have not done my own research. If this is accurate, it's interesting.
Gophers record under Fleck 28-21.
Gophers record in last 49 games before Fleck: 28-21.
Gophers record in last 49 games under Mason: 29-20.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

It’s not really an apples to apples comparison IMO. Fleck’s record includes his 1st year, the others don’t.