All Things Amir Coffey Thread - UPDTAED: A Gophers Commit!

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Go Gophers!!
 

Don't know how much you can read into a High School kid's tweets but Amir's seemed extra thought provoking today. Things like "Only trust yourself" and "you can't count on anyone" and the like. Seems like he was a hard ISU lean on the condition that Hoiberg was staying there.
 

Agree with Doogie on this one. Mayor or no Mayor at ISU, Gophers aren't getting Coffey. Pitino likely has caught that drift from the Coffey family, and has moved on accordingly.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Agree with Doogie on this one. Mayor or no Mayor at ISU, Gophers aren't getting Coffey. Pitino likely has caught that drift from the Coffey family, and has moved on accordingly.
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I have no reason to believe or disbelieve your assessment, Selection (I don't want it to be true), but it begs the question of "Why?" Why do we have such a hard time holding elite talent here? Is it a wanting to get out of town at all costs mentality? Is there something about the institution or Pitino that drives this?

I know many disagree, but I do believe long term competitiveness of the program is closely linked to keeping the best local players close to home. Some on-court success will probably help, but it just seems the Gophers are being written off very quickly by the local elites and it's disturbing as a fan. I really thought Pitino would break through, and I thought Jarvis's commitment would break the ice, but so far not so much. What's the problem? Seems like the ghost of Reid Travis haunting us.
 


It is very difficult to get elite players period. especially when the program itself has had virtually no meaningful success. 2-3 conference titles in a 100 years is very mediocre. So many kids want a successful school with a successful coach, college town, better climate etc.. However, the hopes of building a strong program lie in first hiring the right coach and then finding undervalued kids that you build a relationship with, that you identified as having a mental toughness that can withstand early losing. Frank Mason is a great example. FIND 4-6 Mason types and find out if Pitino can coach. This is how you build a winner. The huge challenge is always going to be finding that rare special coach. If there are 330 schools then perhaps 30 or so have one of those rare coaches. Hopefully UM has one in Pitino but he has a way to go to prove it. By year 4 if you do not have a top 5 conference team then history has the strong suggestion that he does not have that something special.Coffey does not make or break anything. He has some serious questions himself that will take time to answer.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Agree with Doogie on this one. Mayor or no Mayor at ISU, Gophers aren't getting Coffey. Pitino likely has caught that drift from the Coffey family, and has moved on accordingly.
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What makes you say that? Playing the odds or are there rumors? (other than Doogie) You and others may be right on this. However, the Coffeys will likely have the chance to meet the new Gophers this summer before deciding. If they are impressed, perhaps that changes things. I get it that Amir and Richard want to go to a winning scenario- maybe these guys will show the potential and develop the relationships that turns Amir our way. Just hoping. I do like that Pitino does not just sit and depend on the locals. If you want to get on the train- it's here. If not- we are moving on without you.
 

builtbadgers said:
It is very difficult to get elite players period. especially when the program itself has had virtually no meaningful success. 2-3 conference titles in a 100 years is very mediocre. So many kids want a successful school with a successful coach, college town, better climate etc.. However, the hopes of building a strong program lie in first hiring the right coach and then finding undervalued kids that you build a relationship with, that you identified as having a mental toughness that can withstand early losing. Frank Mason is a great example. FIND 4-6 Mason types and find out if Pitino can coach. This is how you build a winner. The huge challenge is always going to be finding that rare special coach. If there are 330 schools then perhaps 30 or so have one of those rare coaches. Hopefully UM has one in Pitino but he has a way to go to prove it. By year 4 if you do not have a top 5 conference team then history has the strong suggestion that he does not have that something special.Coffey does not make or break anything. He has some serious questions himself that will take time to answer.
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And how does this apply to Baylor and Marquette?

Obviously they've had more recent "success" than the Gophers, but both are far from repeat conference champions, neither have "college towns", Baylor's climate is better (I'm not a fan of southern heat, its not for everyone).

The issue I have with Amir leaving Minnesota as an elite level player is as of right now the suggestions is he isn't doing it for an elite level program. He's taking a step up no doubt, but not a huge step up like his recruiting stature would suggest. He would benefit much more by staying home and being a local star, IMO. Instead he's going to a lesser conference for a middling program if he does choose Marquette or Baylor. You might argue that both of those programs have had recent enough recruiting success to make a one or two year splash and a run in the tournament much more plausible than Minnesota, but still, the local angle has to be worth SOMETHING... Right?

Neither coach has a significant leg up on Pitino (huge range of opinions on this I'm sure) even if you saw Bryce Drew as a coach with more experience and accomplishments, it's not so much so that it turns into a no brainer. Pitino's name has to be worth something?

I just hope its a personality conflict between the two, if it's true that Amir goes elsewhere, and Pitino moves on with his plan and continues to recruit local talent. It's a lot more fun when you've got a local spin, and a history built up in a kid. Williams, Hoff, Mbakwe and Nolen were all a lot of fun to cheer for, I'm excited for Hurt as well and it's probably why I'm as big of a Joey defender as I am, because I've got ties to his highschool program.
 

Let me start by saying I really really want Amir here.

However, how many out of state recruits have we signed over their "home school" ? Guys like Mason, Dorsey, etc. I think sometimes guys just like to go to school elsewhere. Not really an indication on the coach at all to me provided he is getting talent from elsewhere and winning.

As fans the MN kids are more fun, but winning trumps all of that and you don't have any better chance of winning if the kid is from MN or NY.

I'm also not willing to write off Amir not coming here either.
 



bga1 said:
What makes you say that? Playing the odds or are there rumors? (other than Doogie)
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Common sense.

1. The program needs to get to a certain spot where the truly elite Minnesota kids want to come here. We're nowhere near that. That's Richard's #1 task right now. Do that -- start producing winning B1G seasons and consistent NCAA bids (see our neighbors to the East) -- and they will (start to) come.

2. Amir's father played for Clem. Richard Coffey has always spoken highly of Clem, what he did for him as a player & helping him turn into a man. Amir's father and Clem are tight. Despite going to school there, the University of Minnesota probably is more likely on Richard C's "naughty" list than his "nice" list.

I agree it would be highly beneficial to get our share of the truly elite Minnesota kids to stay home (i.e. Humphries, Jacobson, Jones, Przybilla, Rickert, Travis, Vaughn, etc.), but to do that the first step is producing legitimate signs the program is headed for something much bigger and better. If it takes mostly out-of-state recruits to start getting us to that point, I'm fine with that.
 

Holy Man said:
I know many disagree, but I do believe long term competitiveness of the program is closely linked to keeping the best local players close to home.
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Yes, I do disagree. How many Kansas bred players are major contributors for Kansas U or even Kansas State? What is the proportion of Oklahoma bred players who are major contributors for the two Big 12 Oklahoma universities? OK has some locational recruiting advantages over MN by being next to Texas, but the four universities are mostly having to look elsewhere. Nevertheless, Kansas is a perennial national power and the other three have all had periods of significant success over the years.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Common sense.

1. The program needs to get to a certain spot where the truly elite Minnesota kids want to come here. We're nowhere near that. That's Richard's #1 task right now. Do that -- start producing winning B1G seasons and consistent NCAA bids (see our neighbors to the East) -- and they will (start to) come.

2. Amir's father played for Clem. Richard Coffey has always spoken highly of Clem, waht he did for him as a player & helping him turn into a man. Amir's father and Clem are tight. Despite going to school there, the University of Minnesota probably is more likely on Richard C's "naughty" list than his "nice" list.

I agree it would be highly beneficial to get our share of the truly elite Minnesota kids to stay home (i.e. Humphries, Jacobson, Jones, Przybilla, Rickert, Travis, Vaughn, etc.), but to do that the first step is producing legitimate signs the program is headed for something much bigger and better. If it takes mostly out-of-state recruits to start getting us to that point, I'm fine with that.
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That's an interested thing to consider with Richard having a close relationship w/ Clem, I wasn't really thinking about that.

In regards to your first and third point, I think the football program is another good example of that. We've had a couple of nice seasons and appear to be heading in the right direction, and lo and behold, we're getting a lot more of the top in state recruits than we're missing, even breaking the 'elite' bubble with Coughlin.
 

Golden_Sloth said:
In regards to your first and third point, I think the football program is another good example of that. We've had a couple of nice seasons and appear to be heading in the right direction, and lo and behold, we're getting a lot more of the top in state recruits than we're missing, even breaking the 'elite' bubble with Coughlin.
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Yep, the U football program is a perfect example. Trending up, lo & behold talented local kids start thinking it'd be cool to be a part of something on its way to something special.
 



SelectionSunday said:
Agree with Doogie on this one. Mayor or no Mayor at ISU, Gophers aren't getting Coffey. Pitino likely has caught that drift from the Coffey family, and has moved on accordingly.
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I think you are right. The father was on record as saying he wanted his kid to play point guard or maybe something like a Scottie Pippen or Evan Turner point forward. The fact that Pitino now has three (possibly four) point or combo guards on his roster and has just recruited three small forward types might also contribute to the appearance of a less attractive destination for him.

Pitino needs to get good players wherever he can and should focus on those who show some real interest in coming here. There's no time to waste in recruiting so if Pitino isn't chasing after the Joneses, Vaughns, and Travises he has my support.
 

scher215 said:
Let me start by saying I really really want Amir here.

However, how many out of state recruits have we signed over their "home school" ? Guys like Mason, Dorsey, etc. I think sometimes guys just like to go to school elsewhere. Not really an indication on the coach at all to me provided he is getting talent from elsewhere and winning.

As fans the MN kids are more fun, but winning trumps all of that and you don't have any better chance of winning if the kid is from MN or NY.
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Agreed. As far as local kids being more "fun," well, that depends how well they do after they come here. I make it a point to curb my enthusiasm for, and attachments to, players until after they arrive and demonstrate what they can do.
 

Coffey is exactly the type of player we need to get. We had a nice class this year, building a good foundation, but our highest recruit (Dorsey) was still around #100 on rivals. You don't win championships without at least one or two studs, and Coffey (top 50 player) is potentially a stud. You can say, we don't care if they come from in state or out of state, but the reality is that Minnesota doesn't get too many (any?) out of state top-50 recruits.

Minnesota has long been talked about as even with or a close #2 to ISU/Hoiberg in Coffey's recruitment. There are no "blue bloods" currently after him. If we fail to land this in-state, legacy, top-50 recruit to a non-blueblood, johnny-come-lately entrant in his recruiting like a Baylor or Marquette or Florida (post-Donovan) or somebody like that, that would be a very bad blow, IMO, and would substantially lower my opinion of and faith in this staff.

We just can't lose multiple top-50 elite, obtainable guys like Reid Travis and Amir Coffey and replace them with out-of-state 3* recruits and say "we're fine."
 

Coffey's and Trent's lack of home pride is exactly why Pitino and Kimani's eastcoast pipeline is so important. NYC, DC, Baltimore, all of the east coast prep schools, etc. will have better talent than Minnesota just about every single year. If we can establish that pipeline, keeping the in-state kids will be much less critical.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Coffey's and Trent's lack of home pride is exactly why Pitino and Kimani's eastcoast pipeline is so important. NYC, DC, Baltimore, all of the east coast prep schools, etc. will have better talent than Minnesota just about every single year. If we can establish that pipeline, keeping the in-state kids will be much less critical.
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Who says Coffey has a lack of home town pride? And isn't Trent like 16 years old? Yeesh...
 

Gold Vision said:
Who says Coffey has a lack of home town pride? And isn't Trent like 16 years old? Yeesh...
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If Amir had home town pride he would have committed the second our number of open 2016 scholarships hit 1. Especially with the way Ponds is expressing interest. Hurt didn't even need to wait that long to show he was committed to the home state program. Coffey not doing so shows he is looking for a reason to get away, just like Tyus, Vaughn, Illikainen and Travis Reid. Which is totally fine, it's his choice. But that's why it's important to develop that east coast pipeline.
 

MadtownGopher said:
If Amir had home town pride he would have committed the second our number of open 2016 scholarships hit 1. Especially with the way Ponds is expressing interest. Hurt didn't even need to wait that long to show he was committed to the home state program. Coffey not doing so shows he is looking for a reason to get away, just like Tyus, Vaughn, Illikainen and Travis Reid. Which is totally fine, it's his choice. But that's why it's important to develop that east coast pipeline.
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I don't know about the "home town pride" angle one way or another, but I completely agree with Madtown on the pipeline comments. The Gophers aren't one player away from being a championship contender. (see Kris Humphries era) I would much rather see them develop a pipeline to a much more talent rich area than get the occasional elite Minnesota kid. We need to get high quality players and then keep them here.
 

Plus, as I've brought up before. A flowing east coast pipeline of talent makes a Minnesota scholarship that much more difficult to attain for the local kids. The result is a Minnesota scholarship that is viewed as a prize as opposed to a fall back plan. Simple supply/demand.
 

You look at the template - our 1997 Final Four team - and it sort of supports both ways of looking at this. We had two in-state players in the top 9 rotation - Jacobson and Thomas. Not sure how many stars they would have been, but Jacobson was the equivalent of four stars and Thomas would have been three stars. The rest - including the team MVP - were from out of town.

At the same time, recruiting Humphries and Pryzbilla did not put the program over the top with either winning or recruiting.
 

This "flowing pipeline" from the east coast has yet to get us a top 100 player... Ponds wouldn't change that trend. While it's extremely important to recruit nationally, our best change at top 50 type players is going to be the top end talent from Minnesota. Minnesota is not a destination school for premium talent on the east coast, never will be.

With that said, I was replying to you writing off the hometown pride of 16 and 17 year old kids who are thinking about their college choices. Just sounded a little ridiculous.
 

I have 0 issue with kids wanting to get away from home and its been discussed plenty here. The advantage of the city that we have with out of state kids is negated at times by the fact that for most of our instate kids the U is within 30 minutes of where they grew up. Some kids want to go someplace else. Some may have just never been fans of the U and there hasn't been a ton of success during their childhood. Not only that but kids are often bandwagoners to an extent in that they want to win which is why it's always easier to sell 'see we've been winning' than 'look we WILL win'. The hometown hero thing is cool but only if kids feel they can be that and still win.
That said, name a major program that locks down their state. Name a major city that does the same. Illinois has multiple mediocre to bad D1 teams while sending 30 kids to D1 schools every year. With all the talent in DC and MD schools in that area should always compete for titles. Same for every school in Texas and Cali. But schools like KY, KS, UNC and Duke dominate with kids from all over. The best player in Michigan ignored both schools and went to KY last year. Its not going to change and MN isn't unique
 

Bad Gopher said:
You look at the template - our 1997 Final Four team - and it sort of supports both ways of looking at this. We had two in-state players in the top 9 rotation - Jacobson and Thomas. Not sure how many stars they would have been, but Jacobson was the equivalent of four stars and Thomas would have been three stars. The rest - including the team MVP - were from out of town.

At the same time, recruiting Humphries and Pryzbilla did not put the program over the top with either winning or recruiting.
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Jacobson was 4 to 5 star material. Thomas we a 3 star at best- he was viewed as a project.
 

Gold Vision said:
This "flowing pipeline" from the east coast has yet to get us a top 100 player... Ponds wouldn't change that trend. While it's extremely important to recruit nationally, our best change at top 50 type players is going to be the top end talent from Minnesota. Minnesota is not a destination school for premium talent on the east coast, never will be.

With that said, I was replying to you writing off the hometown pride of 16 and 17 year old kids who are thinking about their college choices. Just sounded a little ridiculous.
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No offense, but the local top-50 kids aren't coming to Minnesota either. Only one we've gotten recently didn't even log a single minute for us. Thus we should cast a wider net than just the local angle. Our talent from out of state >>>>>> our talent from in state, at least since I became a fan around 2003/2004.
 

Bad Gopher said:
You look at the template - our 1997 Final Four team - and it sort of supports both ways of looking at this. We had two in-state players in the top 9 rotation - Jacobson and Thomas. Not sure how many stars they would have been, but Jacobson was the equivalent of four stars and Thomas would have been three stars. The rest - including the team MVP - were from out of town.

At the same time, recruiting Humphries and Pryzbilla did not put the program over the top with either winning or recruiting.
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You forgot about Trevor Winter, who was an important part of that team, and a top-9 rotation guy. And he played 5 minutes in the NBA! Literally!

Go Gophers!!
 



Ben Johnson needs to start a Minnesota pipeline to the Gophers just like it appears Kimani is going to get one running from the east coast. The Gophers need to play exciting fun BB this year. Pitino style. I hope these new kids have what that takes. I am hopeful they do and the fun starts this year and wins will start rolling in.

I believe in Ben. He will get it done as quickly as it is possible. The fans have to absolutely ROCK Williams. We need to make Williams a coaches destination. I expect that too. A different version of the Mussellman era needs to return. One with the excitement but not the problems. (BTW Witte and tOSU deserved it! :) )

Amir, join the fun! We want you more than we need you and we do need you. BTW, who didn't love Richard? No one!
 

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