All Things 2025 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Stefanski could be trying to save his job. Every win counts for him at this point

So the HC has the authority to make that trade.

Interesting theory

 

[Ope3]

So the HC has the authority to make that trade.

Interesting theory

Some HCs might have that authority, especially when the Owners are morons.

 

[Slim Tubby]

So the HC has the authority to make that trade.

Interesting theory

I'd be surprised if Stefanski didn't have some say in personnel decisions, especially on offense. He's a very good coach despite working for a highly dysfunctional organization.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Some HCs might have that authority, especially when the Owners are morons.

Yes, I realize that, but I was specifically responding regarding Stefanski having that type of organizational control. I thought that was clear, my bad that I didn’t use a this coach vs. the coach.

Historically, that type of gravitas is reserved for the Belicheck/Carroll/Mike Shanahan (coaches with rings) or big swinging Ds like Chip Kelly coming in from college to a morbid franchise-see link below.

Six NFL Head Coaches Have Total Roster Control

The NFL's other head coaches have varying degrees of control depending on how the power dynamic with the general manager is structured.

football.realgm.com

Do you know how many currently have that type of responsibility? Feel free to post a link/source.

If I’m proved incorrect and Stefanski has those responsibilities, I will admit I’m wrong and dust off my mea culpa, “I could be wrong, I often am.”

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I'd be surprised if Stefanski didn't have some say in personnel decisions, especially on offense. He's a very good coach despite working for a highly dysfunctional organization.

See my post above regarding specific examples from a third party source and the level of coaches who have had that type of control in the past, FWIW

 

[Ope3]

Yes, I realize that, but I was specifically responding regarding Stefanski having that type of organizational control. I thought that was clear, my bad that I didn’t use a this coach vs. the coach.

Historically, that type of gravitas is reserved for the Belicheck/Carroll/Mike Shanahan (coaches with rings) or big swinging Ds like Chip Kelly coming in from college to a morbid franchise-see link below.

Six NFL Head Coaches Have Total Roster Control

The NFL's other head coaches have varying degrees of control depending on how the power dynamic with the general manager is structured.

football.realgm.com

Do you know how many currently have that type of responsibility? Feel free to post a link/source.

If I’m proved incorrect and Stefanski has those responsibilities, I will admit I’m wrong and dust off my mea culpa, “I could be wrong, I often am.”

You did not need to clarify anything nor apologize. I understood perfectly.

My response was: "Some HCs might have that authority, especially when the Owners are morons."

The Owners of Stefanski's franchise are the poster children for that description.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

You did not need to clarify anything nor apologize. I understood perfectly.

Now, I know; I’d rather error on the side of over communicating vs. making assumptions

My response was: "Some HCs might have that authority, especially when the Owners are morons."

The Owners of Stefanski's franchise are the poster children for that description.

So you’re guessing he may, but have no definitive proof -it’s crystal clear now.

 

[Ope3]

Now, I know; I’d rather error on the side of over communicating vs. making assumptions


So you’re guessing he may, but have no definitive proof -it’s crystal clear now.

Correct. Even if in theory he does not have the authority, I could easily see Stefanski doing an end run to the Owner and ask for such a maneuver.

The whole QB position has been a circus with getting rid of Mayfield, foisting Watson on Stefanski, ditching Flacco after he took him to the playoffs...good luck making sense of the decision making tree in that franchise.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Correct. Even if in theory he does not have the authority, I could easily see Stefanski doing an end run to the Owner and ask for such a maneuver.

The whole QB position has been a circus with getting rid of Mayfield, foisting Watson on him Stefanski, ditching Flacco after he took him to the playoffs...good luck making sense of the decision making tree in that franchise.

I’m happy for Baker, always liked him in college and glad he found a good home.

The Browns fans deserve so much more.

 

[Slim Tubby]

When you consider that:

* The Vikings have the oldest roster in the NFL

* They have literally crapped the bed in our recent Drafts denying the current roster of young, cap friendly talent

* Have huge deferred cap hits coming next season with other aging veterans needing new deals

* Have essentially a Rookie QB that's only proven to be injury prone as of yet

A person could make a strong argument that we're far closer to a full rebuild than we are being considered a true contending team.

KAM's position as GM could certainly come under fire sooner rather than later.

 

[Ope3]

When you consider that:

* The Vikings have the oldest roster in the NFL

* They have literally crapped the bed in our recent Drafts denying the current roster of young, cap friendly talent

* Have huge deferred cap hits coming next season with other aging veterans needing new deals

* Have essentially a Rookie QB that's only proven to be injury prone as of yet

A person could make a strong argument that we're far closer to a full rebuild than we are being considered a true contending team.

KAM's position as GM could certainly come under fire sooner rather than later.

Why would just KAM and not KOC come under fire? Any quality GM is going to want to bring in their own guy.

They have yet to win a playoff game.

 

[howeda7]

Why would just KAM and not KOC come under fire? Any quality GM is going to want to bring in their own guy.

They have yet to win a playoff game.

KOC has one of the highest winning %'s among active coaches and just won coach of the year last year and got a big contract extension. His seat is the furthest thing from hot.

 

[Ope3]

KOC has one of the highest winning %'s among active coaches and just won coach of the year last year and got a big contract extension. His seat is the furthest thing from hot.

No argument. Neither is KAM's based on that same logic (with regards to the winning percentage).

The guy that picked KOC is connected. If KAM is let go, the replacement has to have the full authority to bring in their own coach.

 

[howeda7]

No argument. Neither is KAM's based on that same logic (with regards to the winning percentage).

KAM's bad drafts have him in a warmer spot, but I believe he also got an extension so he's at least a year away from any real heat.

 

[Ope3]

KAM's bad drafts have him in a warmer spot, but I believe he also got an extension so he's at least a year away from any real heat.

A year away would be 5 seasons.

If KOC has not won a playoff game by then, his spot should also be warm, especially if that means he has failed to developed JJM.

 

[Ogie Ogilthorpe]

When you consider that:

* The Vikings have the oldest roster in the NFL

* They have literally crapped the bed in our recent Drafts denying the current roster of young, cap friendly talent

* Have huge deferred cap hits coming next season with other aging veterans needing new deals

* Have essentially a Rookie QB that's only proven to be injury prone as of yet

A person could make a strong argument that we're far closer to a full rebuild than we are being considered a true contending team.

KAM's position as GM could certainly come under fire sooner rather than later.

With all due respect, I think you're kinda off the mark across the board here. As far as the age of the roster, I've no doubt that Harrison Smith, Adam Thielen (basically a bandaid) and the 38-yr old long snapper are throwing that average way, way out of whack. Some perspective is warranted there.

The core offensive players are basically all under 27 yrs old.

The drafts haven't been that bad, and they've been one of the more successful teams when it comes to UDFA's. Gotta remember some of those picks went to get Hock and Turner, and Turner is only 22 yrs old and getting better every week. Donovan Jackson appears to be the real deal too.

Most of the cap hits that are coming next year are structured to be re-done next spring, almost all of the big hits are going to be restructured. That's why you don't really see any of the Vikings beat writers throwing their arms up about next year's cap; they know it's right in line with where they want to be.

McCarthy? I think it's a little early for the label "injury prone", but we can toss that in the "Wait and See" category if you really want.

Opinions vary, but I couldn't be much happier with where the roster is at right now. The only real disappointment I have at this point is that it certainly appears that the Ryan Kelly signing won't be quite the splash it was when it happened. Hopefully it gets better.

Although the same people who are probably bitching about the Kelly signing were very likely the same ones bitching about why they hadn't moved on from Bradbury and upgraded the Center position. There's some folks there's no pleasing

 

[Slim Tubby]

Why would just KAM and not KOC come under fire? Any quality GM is going to want to bring in their own guy.

In general, I agree completely, but could a new GM identify a better available HC prospect than KOC?

I think KAM just signed an extension so he's probably not going anywhere but you simply can't look past his horrific Draft history and the fact that outside of Rodgers, his FA signings this year appear to be an unmitigated disaster thus far.

If JJM proves to be a dud, this team that was built to win now might need to be dismantled with a full reboot and KAM might not get the chance to oversee that. I personally wouldn't give him another shot.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

KOC has one of the highest winning %'s among active coaches and just won coach of the year last year and got a big contract extension. His seat is the furthest thing from hot.

Ironically, Stefanski who kinda kicked off this debate, was coach of the year in 2020 & 2023 - so if he gets canned, he may welcome it and enjoy the sun and fun in Miami?

I doubt he’d be unemployed for very long, if he doesn’t want to take a sabbatical.

 

[Ope3]

In general, I agree completely, but could a new GM identify a better available HC prospect than KOC?

I think KAM just signed an extension so he's probably not going anywhere but you simply can't look past his horrific Draft history and the fact that outside of Rodgers, his FA signings this year appear to be an unmitigated disaster thus far.

If JJM proves to be a dud, this team that was built to win now might need to be dismantled with a full reboot and KAM might not get the chance to oversee that. I personally wouldn't give him another shot.

A new GM could have a completely different philosophy. Just seem to go well for anyone if the GM is forced to keep the HC.

If JJM is a dud, it's just as much on KOC, IMO.

The one thing Vikings fans would be stuck with are the Wilfs.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

With all due respect, I think you're kinda off the mark across the board here. As far as the age of the roster, I've no doubt that Harrison Smith, Adam Thielen (basically a bandaid) and the 38-yr old long snapper are throwing that average way, way out of whack. Some perspective is warranted there.

The core offensive players are basically all under 27 yrs old.

The drafts haven't been that bad, and they've been one of the more successful teams when it comes to UDFA's. Gotta remember some of those picks went to get Hock and Turner, and Turner is only 22 yrs old and getting better every week. Donovan Jackson appears to be the real deal too.

Most of the cap hits that are coming next year are structured to be re-done next spring, almost all of the big hits are going to be restructured. That's why you don't really see any of the Vikings beat writers throwing their arms up about next year's cap; they know it's right in line with where they want to be.

McCarthy? I think it's a little early for the label "injury prone", but we can toss that in the "Wait and See" category if you really want.

Opinions vary, but I couldn't be much happier with where the roster is at right now. The only real disappointment I have at this point is that it certainly appears that the Ryan Kelly signing won't be quite the splash it was when it happened. Hopefully it gets better.

Although the same people who are probably bitching about the Kelly signing were very likely the same ones bitching about why they hadn't moved on from Bradbury and upgraded the Center position. There's some folks there's no pleasing

I read an article which said the FA DTs are excellent against the pas, but aren’t against the run abd with Cash out, maybe it magnifies their run stopping defeceincies?

Should have kept Phillips and only signed one?

The FA signings have been amazing and Redmond may end up being the beast at DT we’ve been waiting for ; three sacks and counting

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

A new GM could have a completely different philosophy. Just seem to go well for anyone if the GM is forced to keep the HC.

If JJM is a dud, it's just as much on KOC, IMO.

The one thing Vikings fans would be stuck with are the Wilfs.

Whiffs ?

 

[Ope3]

Whiffs ?

Going back to 2010 (when the HHH roof collapsed), the Vikings have played in more Home Stadiums (3) than have Playoff Wins (2).

Both against the Saints and won on the last play of the games.

 

[Slim Tubby]

A new GM could have a completely different philosophy. Just seem to go well for anyone if the GM is forced to keep the HC.

I think this is 100% the correct response and normally how it plays out. I would counter that the new GM also needs to win and might find it quite difficult to identify another HC with a better resume and upside than KOC.

I say we split the difference and offer to double Howie Roseman's salary to leave the Eagles

If JJM is a dud, it's just as much on KOC, IMO.

I don't think this would be a reasonable judgement made against KOC considering what's he's already accomplished with Darnold, Dobbs, Mullens and even Wentz to a certain extent.

If the GM gives the HC a clump of dog poop that he can't mold into a franchise QB, that's hardly the coaches fault.

The one thing Vikings fans would be stuck with are the Wilfs.

You might dislike the Wilfs even more than I do the Pohlad family.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Going back to 2010 (when the HHH roof collapsed), the Vikings have played in more Home Stadiums (3) than have Playoff Wins (2).

Both against the Saints and won on the last play of the games.

You may need a gummy or two(?) - sounds like you’ve got those Bye Week Blues

 

[Ope3]

I don't think this would be a reasonable judgement made against KOC considering what's he's already accomplished with Darnold, Dobbs, Mullens and even Wentz to a certain extent.

If the GM gives the HC a clump of dog poop that he can't mold into a franchise QB, that's hardly the coaches fault.

The reason I put some (as much) responsibility on KOC regarding JJM's fortune is I am positive he had significant input/endorsement on the decision to begin with.

You might dislike the Wilfs even more than I do the Pohlad family.

Probably a push.



What aggravates me even more than the Wilfs themselves is the fawning over them by a significant faction of fans. That despite an empty Trophy case during their tenure (not even a Halas Trophy) and being the benefactors of $1Billion+ home facility that has helped exponentially (10X) increase their value.

To their credit, they are on a streak of 20 years without another Love Boat incident. Their updated Code of Conduct seems to have taken root. For the most part.

 

[Ope3]

You may need a gummy or two(?) - sounds like you’ve got those Bye Week Blues

No, I'm good.

3-2 and some time to get healthy for the Birds in a week.

 

[Ogie Ogilthorpe]

In general, I agree completely, but could a new GM identify a better available HC prospect than KOC?

I think KAM just signed an extension so he's probably not going anywhere but you simply can't look past his horrific Draft history and the fact that outside of Rodgers,

I can. With ease.

The role of the GM is to build the roster and do it within the confines of the salary cap. Drafting is a part of that role, along with signing FA's, managing the cap, acquiring a competent coaching staff, and working in tandem with the Head Coach to put together the pieces to form a winning team.

The Vikings won 34 games in KAM's first three years at the helm. Check.

Vikings fans were CRYING, and BEGGING to deliver the team out from under the salary cap hell that they were in under Kirk Cousins (and some bad, bad, BAD contracts that were inherited from the previous regime). Check.

Give the HC the pieces he needs to win and then stay the hell out of the way. Check.

You can't crucify KAM and piss on his head for drafting Cine and Booth and then not give credit for acquiring talent like Greenard, Van Ginkel, Cashman, Addison, Hockenson, Aaron Jones, Jordan Mason, Byron Murphy, I. Rodgers, Hargrave, Allen, Fries, Kelly, JJ McCarthy, Donovan Jackson, et al.

Everyone misses on draft picks. There's whiffing on draft picks, and there's whiffing on top-10, top-15 overall draft picks. So far, barring how JJM works out, they haven't really blown a major draft asset. I looked at the 31 players that were picked ahead of Cine in KAM's first draft; it's littered with misses.

 

[Slim Tubby]

You can't crucify KAM and piss on his head for drafting Cine and Booth and then not give credit for acquiring talent like Greenard, Van Ginkel, Cashman, Addison, Hockenson, Aaron Jones, Jordan Mason, Byron Murphy, I. Rodgers, Hargrave, Allen, Fries, Kelly, JJ McCarthy, Donovan Jackson, et al.

And how close to winning a Title or even getting to a Super Bowl are we with the players mentioned above? How many of those players are under 27?

I'm not demanding KAM's dismissal and I've liked a lot of what he's done. At the end of the day, he will be judged by his ability or inability to identify and acquire a franchise QB.

If JJM is a bust, we're right back to square one and if I'm the Owner, I'm not giving him the keys to our next destination.

We're going to have to disagree on this one.

 

[Ogie Ogilthorpe]

And how close to winning a Title or even getting to a Super Bowl are we with the players mentioned above? How many of those players are under 27?

I'm not demanding KAM's dismissal and I've liked a lot of what he's done. At the end of the day, he will be judged by his ability or inability to identify and acquire a franchise QB.

If JJM is a bust, we're right back to square one and if I'm the Owner, I'm not giving him the keys to our next destination.

We're going to have to disagree on this one.

I don't think we disagree on that much here. I agree with most all of this post, although I think the jury is still out on where the team is right now and the chances of success this season. With even a somewhat healthy roster and an effective JJM, I think the Vikings will still be very much a player come January. I'm not bailing on my tickets on them making the playoffs, finishing in the top 2 in the North, etc. just yet

Yup, as with many franchises, swinging and missing on a top-10 draft pick QB almost always means a ticket out of town.

Their three most recent high draft picks, Jackson, Turner and JJM, are all 22 years old. If they turn into high level starters, Pro Bowl caliber players, I'd say they have drafted pretty well

 

[Slim Tubby]

I don't think we disagree on that much here. I agree with most all of this post, although I think the jury is still out on where the team is right now and the chances of success this season. With even a somewhat healthy roster and an effective JJM, I think the Vikings will still be very much a player come January. I'm not bailing on my tickets on them making the playoffs, finishing in the top 2 in the North, etc. just yet

Yup, as with many franchises, swinging and missing on a top-10 draft pick QB almost always means a ticket out of town.

Their three most recent high draft picks, Jackson, Turner and JJM, are all 22 years old. If they turn into high level starters, Pro Bowl caliber players, I'd say they have drafted pretty well

Honestly, if just JJM develops into a Pro Bowl caliber player, I'll forget about every single poor Draft selection KAM has ever made. I acknowledge how difficult (and sometimes reliant on sheer luck) this can be for any GM.

I haven't given up on JJM yet...not even close, but my anxiety as a fan is rising a tad. I really hope he plays against the Eagles and stays healthy the rest of the season to see what we have in him.

He's got a lot on his plate...first year as a starter, just had a baby, planning a wedding, etc. I lose focus just walking to the kitchen.