All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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Slim Tubby said:
What he's saying is drafting JJ around 14 is proper value. Using your draft capital to move up to 4/5 to grab him there is poor value and use of assets.

However, if JJ falls to 6 naturally, the NYG wouldn't need to surrender precious draft picks making it a more sensible QB reach despite the overall player ranking differential.
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Its all about risk reward
 


Slim Tubby said:
What he's saying is drafting JJ around 14 is proper value. Using your draft capital to move up to 4/5 to grab him there is poor value and use of assets.

However, if JJ falls to 6 naturally, the NYG wouldn't need to surrender precious draft picks making it a more sensible QB reach despite the overall player ranking differential.
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If someone picks him at 14, they are expecting him to be their franchise qb.

If the Vikings think he's their franchise qb, and think they need to get to 5, then you trade what you have to trade.
 






kg21 said:
If someone picks him at 14, they are expecting him to be their franchise qb.

If the Vikings think he's their franchise qb, and think they need to get to 5, then you trade what you have to trade.
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You're missing the point. He doesn't believe that JJ is a good enough QB prospect to risk all that draft capital on. He does if it's for Daniels or Maye.

Ironically, Kiper's grade and overall player ranking for McCarthy is MUCH higher than what I've seen from the other self proclaimed draft experts.
 




and my point is.........

I do not believe in the concept of "reaching." If I value a player more than another team, that is my choice to make. because value is determined by multiple factors: how a player fits, or doesn't fit in the team's system; the team's short-term and long-term needs; personal evaluation; etc.

in the end, I want the Vikings to draft the player that they think is the best fit. If that means they have to trade up to get that player, so be it. they make the choice and they live with the consequences.

and if some draft analyst says the Vikings "reached" for that player, I don't care. the analyst's job is safe. he can be wrong all day long and face no consequences.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
and my point is.........

I do not believe in the concept of "reaching." If I value a player more than another team, that is my choice to make. because value is determined by multiple factors: how a player fits, or doesn't fit in the team's system; the team's short-term and long-term needs; personal evaluation; etc.

in the end, I want the Vikings to draft the player that they think is the best fit. If that means they have to trade up to get that player, so be it. they make the choice and they live with the consequences.

and if some draft analyst says the Vikings "reached" for that player, I don't care. the analyst's job is safe. he can be wrong all day long and face no consequences.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; like many things in life, it’s subjective. After a few seasons of data, then it becomes more obvious if it’s a good selection or not.
 

kg21 said:
Lewis Cine, Mike Hughes, Jeff Gladney.......our last 3 defensive first round picks.

You can play these games all day and all night.
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The last six (6) QBs taken in the Top 5 that teams traded huge assets to acquire:

Bryce Young
Trey Lance
Sam Darnold
Mitch Trubisky
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz

We should've traded a late pick for Howell to give us a more credible option at QB and less desperate to risk assets.
 

Slim Tubby said:
We should've traded a late pick for Howell to give us a more credible option at QB and less desperate to risk assets.
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I would bet a decent amount that Howell not only starts a majority of the season for Seattle but is a top-15 QB for the next several years. Washington was stupid to get rid of him, but it seems they wanted to overhaul the building with the new regime taking over.
 



Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I would bet a decent amount that Howell not only starts a majority of the season for Seattle but is a top-15 QB for the next several years. Washington was stupid to get rid of him, but it seems they wanted to overhaul the building with the new regime taking over.
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Agreed. If WAS had kept him, they could've traded back for a huge haul to jumpstart their rebuild. Now, they are almost a lock to draft Daniels.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Diggs is a major, major malcontent. Period. Just how bad do you think it had to be for the Bills to eat over $30M in dead cap hit just to get rid of him, for a relatively minimal pick next year? It had to be really, really bad.

Like Lombardi says, there are several different kinds of trades. One kind is the "we're one player away" trade (like the Vikings going after Herschel!); this particular trade is the "get him out of the f'ng building" kind of trade. Get rid of him at all costs. And they did.

This last year, Diggs was all the way down to just over 11 yards per completion; not long ago he was over 18 ypc. He's not the same player

Just absolutely painful to listen to some of the Minnesota sports podcast earlier today, or whatever it's called; the one with Luke Inman, Luke Braun, Arif Hasan, and a couple other guys. Good Lord, Hasan is just unlistenable; decided this would a good time to essentially say that "Bills management" should be shouldering a huge portion of blame here, for a player that has a history of being a malcontent. I had to turn it off it was so bad. Oooffff.
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The Texans voided the last three years of his deal, so he’s a FA next offseason; in essence they traded a 2nd rounder for one season (not accounting for any comp when he signs as a FA with another team).
 

short ornery norwegian said:
call me crazy - but I'm seeing a lot more articles, mock drafts, etc that have Penix going in the 1st round. maybe it's phony buzz being created by agents, writers or what have you, but after a lot of people were jumping off the Penix train a month ago, now it seems as if people are jumping back on the Penix train.

(Ogee - I saw a mock today that had Penix going to the Raiders, and I thought of you immediately.....)

so let's say for some reason the Vikings cannot trade up to get McCarthy. If Penix is the next QB on the board, do the Vikes take him at #11 - or do they wait and hope that no one grabs him before #23? i think it's possible that Penix might not last until 23.

three weeks of wild speculation remaining.
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Luke Braun from Locked on Vikings podcast (a pretty decent listen, he's a pretty sharp young guy, definitely a detail-oriented nerdy kind of football guy, very smart), who was somewhat high on Penix earlier in the process did a deeper dive on him in the last couple days, talked about him at length.

All the normal positives, good deep ball, decent arm strength, et al but talked about a litany of concerns. Most of the concerns centered around mechanics; arm angle, footwork, body-rotation (can tend to use too much arm, not enough body rotation), release point, what he does when there is pressure; when you have a really good QB and a really good WR, who is making who look good? And it sounds like Odunze made Penix look good a whole lot more than Penix made Odunze look good, as far as ball placement, anticipation, etc.

He did say one thing in closing though; drafting a QB in the 2nd round (or even the 3rd and beyond) doesn't get your fired. Selling the farm to go up for that guy in the top 5 and missing, that's what gets you fired.

Regardless of who it is (Penix, Nix, Pratt, Rattler), I just can't see burning even a top 60-75 pick on a guy that you just aren't in LOVE with. Take a swing into the top 5 if the guy you LOVE is there and you can get him, if not, readjust, fill other holes, see what you can do with Darnold and re-evaluate next February.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Luke Braun from Locked on Vikings podcast (a pretty decent listen, he's a pretty sharp young guy, definitely a detail-oriented nerdy kind of football guy, very smart), who was somewhat high on Penix earlier in the process did a deeper dive on him in the last couple days, talked about him at length.

All the normal positives, good deep ball, decent arm strength, et al but talked about a litany of concerns. Most of the concerns centered around mechanics; arm angle, footwork, body-rotation (can tend to use too much arm, not enough body rotation), release point, what he does when there is pressure; when you have a really good QB and a really good WR, who is making who look good? And it sounds like Odunze made Penix look good a whole lot more than Penix made Odunze look good, as far as ball placement, anticipation, etc.

He did say one thing in closing though; drafting a QB in the 2nd round (or even the 3rd and beyond) doesn't get your fired. Selling the farm to go up for that guy in the top 5 and missing, that's what gets you fired.

Regardless of who it is (Penix, Nix, Pratt, Rattler), I just can't see burning even a top 60-75 pick on a guy that you just aren't in LOVE with. Take a swing into the top 5 if the guy you LOVE is there and you can get him, if not, readjust, fill other holes, see what you can do with Darnold and re-evaluate next February.
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Don't disagree. But at the same time if they don't draft a QB at all early on (first few rounds) this year and then are forced to take someone you don't love next year, that's also how you get fired. It's very possible be in the exact same situation next year.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Luke Braun from Locked on Vikings podcast (a pretty decent listen, he's a pretty sharp young guy, definitely a detail-oriented nerdy kind of football guy, very smart), who was somewhat high on Penix earlier in the process did a deeper dive on him in the last couple days, talked about him at length.

All the normal positives, good deep ball, decent arm strength, et al but talked about a litany of concerns. Most of the concerns centered around mechanics; arm angle, footwork, body-rotation (can tend to use too much arm, not enough body rotation), release point, what he does when there is pressure; when you have a really good QB and a really good WR, who is making who look good? And it sounds like Odunze made Penix look good a whole lot more than Penix made Odunze look good, as far as ball placement, anticipation, etc.

He did say one thing in closing though; drafting a QB in the 2nd round (or even the 3rd and beyond) doesn't get your fired. Selling the farm to go up for that guy in the top 5 and missing, that's what gets you fired.

Regardless of who it is (Penix, Nix, Pratt, Rattler), I just can't see burning even a top 60-75 pick on a guy that you just aren't in LOVE with. Take a swing into the top 5 if the guy you LOVE is there and you can get him, if not, readjust, fill other holes, see what you can do with Darnold and re-evaluate next February.
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Bro, didn’t you learn this answer to your quandary, when you were young, dumb and full of rum?

 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Bro, didn’t you learn this answer to your quandary, when you were young, dumb and full of rum?

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I know the song well, and yet I clicked on it just for the hell of it. Now how in the world can you be in a bad mood after listening to that song? Good start to the day on a Saturday morning!

Heard a lengthy interview with Mike Mayock the other day, who I really really like but still gives me nightmares from his time as Raiders GM (although we should assume most of those picks were largely Chucky).

High on Williams, Daniels and Maye, didn't really know anything on McCarthy because he hadn't reviewed him. High on Penix as well.

Says with Nix, as far as 1st round, he doesn't see it. Not sure I do either. He puts Rattler and Pratt right there on Day 2 with Nix. Seemed to like a lot about Rattler.
 

kg21 said:
Lewis Cine, Mike Hughes, Jeff Gladney.......our last 3 defensive first round picks.
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Same old troll apples to watermelon.

None were the first defensive player taken in their respective drafts.


Picking at #11 the Vikings very easily could take the first defensive player of the draft.
 

MplsGopher said:
Same old troll apples to watermelon.

None were the first defensive player taken in their respective drafts.


Picking at #11 the Vikings very easily could take the first defensive player of the draft.
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They could hit on any pick

They could miss on any pick

Just shut the f--- up, once, ya bleeping troll.

Just for the record, they appear to hit big time on Addison.
 

kg21 said:
They could hit on any pick
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I'm not aware of any team that has traded current and future firsts to move into the top 5, taken a QB with that pick, and hit on it.

You are a troll
 

MplsGopher said:
I'm not aware of any team that has traded current and future firsts to move into the top 5, taken a QB with that pick, and hit on it.

You are a troll
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And I'm not aware of any team that has picked such garbage defense for a decade straight.

Ya damn, troll
 

Ope3 said:
Two of those were at least worth the draft capital that was used to select them.
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Were any of them picked at a spot that we acquired by trading away future firsts?

If not, then your comment isn't really relevant.
 

kg21 said:
And I'm not aware of any team that has picked such garbage defense for a decade straight.
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Troll watermelon to apples. Not first defensive players taken in the draft.


How many teams that have taken the first defensive player in the draft have absolutely missed on him? I'm sure it's more than zero but guessing hit rate is pretty good.
 

MplsGopher said:
I'm not aware of any team that has traded current and future firsts to move into the top 5, taken a QB with that pick, and hit on it.

You are a troll
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No you are the troll. For crying out loud. Shut the F****ing hell up will you *******
 

I found this one from Draftek that would pretty much sum up MIN sports trades:

MIN receives: #3
NE receives: #11, #23, 2025 1st & 2025 3rd

Vikings take Maye at 3. What about NE's picks?

11. QB J.J. McCarthy
23. OT J.C. Latham

😂
 


was reading an article on The Athletic. The author talked to 7 NFL front office people to ask this question -- what do you think Washington will do with the #2 pick? So these are predictions for what they think Washington will do.

Three said they think Wash will take Daniels. Two said they will take Maye. One said Wash will take McCarthy. and the 7th said Wash will trade down.

the point is that - compared to a month ago - opinions are shifting on the pecking order for the QB's, and McCarthy's stock is rising the most.

but that sets up a lot of scenarios. IF McCarthy would go 2nd or 3rd, that means that Daniels or Maye would be available at #4, and there could be a real bidding war to move up to that spot.

It's like the 12 days of Christmas - only in this case

On the 1st day of Draft Speculation, my GM gave to me......A QB named McCarthy.
on the 2nd day of Draft Speculation........
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was reading an article on The Athletic. The author talked to 7 NFL front office people to ask this question -- what do you think Washington will do with the #2 pick? So these are predictions for what they think Washington will do.

Three said they think Wash will take Daniels. Two said they will take Maye. One said Wash will take McCarthy. and the 7th said Wash will trade down.

the point is that - compared to a month ago - opinions are shifting on the pecking order for the QB's, and McCarthy's stock is rising the most.

but that sets up a lot of scenarios. IF McCarthy would go 2nd or 3rd, that means that Daniels or Maye would be available at #4, and there could be a real bidding war to move up to that spot.

It's like the 12 days of Christmas - only in this case

On the 1st day of Draft Speculation, my GM gave to me......A QB named McCarthy.
on the 2nd day of Draft Speculation........
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This is setting up to be some impressive theater, no doubt. The one thing we absolutely know right now is that we DON'T know who the Vikings love in this draft. I don't believe they love Daniels, Maye, McCarthy equally.

Another hunch; I honestly give it at least a 30% chance that the Vikings do NOT take a swing and move up for a QB. Two things could prevent the Vikings from moving up; their guy is not available, and they get outbid for the pick they need. I still think this new regime has some discipline and will NOT overpay for what is clearly not going to be a generational or "can't miss" pick. I just don't see them doing that. And I think part of KOC would be fine with starting Darnold this year.

In regards to the top 4-6 picks, one thing I think I would feel confident saying with a HIGH degree of certainty (despite a bunch of bogus mocks), is that Harbaugh is NOT going to draft a WR with their top pick. Zero chance. This is a guy that has built his career on being tough up front, running the football, owning the trenches. Wherever they end up drafting, the Chargers are taking either an OL or a DL.
 

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