All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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Gopher_In_NYC said:
Which one of you is Felix and Oscar?

You quibble so cutely🥰.
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All I know is I wanted the top 5 pick, was mocked by someone because quarterbacks are a crapshoot, and now that someone wants them to draft a qb. Hell, he even knows the one we should pick.

:banghead:
 

kg21 said:
All I know is I wanted the top 5 pick, was mocked by someone because quarterbacks are a crapshoot, and now that someone wants them to draft a qb. Hell, he even knows the one we should pick.

:banghead:
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Thanks Oscar.
 


kg21 said:
I doubt if you noticed, but it didn't help Penix last night that his offensive line couldn't pass block.
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Darrisaw pro bowl.
Bradbury pro bowl alternate.
O’Neill pro bowl when healthy.

Ingram improving was out with injury. Risner is fine.

Per usual you’re a fraud
 


That’s why USC won all those games this year.

That’s why Carolina won all those games this year.

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 


MplsGopher said:
Darrisaw pro bowl.
Bradbury pro bowl alternate.
O’Neill pro bowl when healthy.

Ingram improving was out with injury. Risner is fine.

Per usual you’re a fraud
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Harrison Smith is a pro bowl alternate. (y)

The interior of the offensive line sucks.

Do you watch the games?
 




GFBfan said:
Order of preference:
1 Sign JJ
2 Sign Danielle at a reasonable number (no idea what that is)
3 Keep the pick and draft best DL or DB on the board.
4 Sign Kirk, but only at a team friendly value. If Atl or someone wants to pay him 40 mil a year, let them.
5. Look to the second round for the QB of the future.
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Agree, except for #5, try to trade into the end of the 1st round for a QB just for the 5th year option.
 

kg21 said:
Harrison Smith is a pro bowl alternate. (y)

The interior of the offensive line sucks.

Do you watch the games?
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theres been lots of example over the years showing that the best arent exactly picked to the pro bowl or as alternates
 

Depending on the haul, I am trading JJ. This team just has too many talent gaps, buoyed by Kwesi's poor drafting so far
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
Depending on the haul, I am trading JJ. This team just has too many talent gaps, buoyed by Kwesi's poor drafting so far
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I completely agree on Kwesi's utterly dismal drafting history. With that said, would you trust him to get the best possible return for JJ?
 




Slim Tubby said:
I completely agree on Kwesi's utterly dismal drafting history. With that said, would you trust him to get the best possible return for JJ?
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And then be able to use the draft capital gained to pick the right guys?
Right now, I’d say no. Keep JJ and hope Kwai can finally hit on a couple picks.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
There's been lots of example over the years showing that the best aren't exactly picked to the pro bowl or as alternates.
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Budda Baker (ARI)
Games - 11
Tackles - 77
TFL's - 5
Sacks - 0
QB Hits - 0
INT's - 0
Pass Defends - 0
Forced Fumbles - 0
Fumble Recoveries - 0

Antoine Winfield, Jr. (TB)
Games - 16
Tackles - 117
TFL's - 5
Sacks - 5
QB Hits - 7
INT's - 3
Pass Defends - 12
Forced Fumbles - 5
Fumble Recoveries - 4

Budda Baker was named as a Starter in the Pro Bowl for the NFC...Winfield Jr. was not.
 

I'm just going by what I'm seeing in the different mock drafts. almost every mock I have seen has 5 or 6 QB's going in the 1st round. It's a combination of a (perceived) strong QB group and a lot of teams looking to improve their QB situation.

there are no guarantees.

but given the choice, I would rather gamble with a QB going as one of the top 5 or 10 picks in the draft as opposed to a QB going in the 2nd or 3rd round.

it all depends on what they do with Kirk. If Kirk is willing to come back for - let's say - 2 years at $30 million a year - then the Vikes may not need to take a 1st round QB this season. But if Kirk does not come back, I think the Vikes have to go QB in the 1st round - even move up if necessary to get the best QB available.
 

You don’t have the guy shirt off, chain out blowing the horn to open the game, then cut him that offseason.

Kirk is back. Take the L.


Two years or three? How much per year? How many years guaranteed?

Details, details. Don’t bother me with the details. Just tell me when it’s done.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
it all depends on what they do with Kirk. If Kirk is willing to come back for - let's say - 2 years at $30 million a year - then the Vikes may not need to take a 1st round QB this season. But if Kirk does not come back, I think the Vikes have to go QB in the 1st round - even move up if necessary to get the best QB available.
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These are the free agent QB's this year:
https://sports.yahoo.com/13-nfl-quarterbacks-free-agents-202717864.html

Spoiler alert, it's Cousins and that's it. He will have market cornered for the teams looking for a free agent QB. My guess as to what he'll get is 3 years/$125MM (not including any potential BS "void" years and/or fake salary cap shenanigans). He's not a runner, and he's been incredibly durable, so the Achilles injury likely isn't a huge deal if he passes medical exams. Look below at the current QB contracts. Ryan freakin' Tannehill was making $29.5MM/year this year, Derek Carr is at $37.5MM/year and Daniel Jones is at $40MM/year. While those are all just bad signings, it 100% goes into determining Cousins' value as it "sets the market". I would say Matt Stafford seems like a good corollary to Cousins' value.

Length of term is likely going to be the biggest thing he'll be negotiating. A 2 year deal has him re-hitting FA at 38, which is not ideal. He would likely take less money to get a 3 or 4 year deal which would likely be his final FA deal. OR he really values a SB ring and takes less money to sign with a legit contender he sees actually being able to make a run.

Capture55.JPG
 
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forever a gopher said:
This. Considering the return will be mostly draft picks, I can't say I'm shipping off JJ to get more Lewis Cines on the roster.
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It’s just an awful, awful take to say trade JJ for picks when you have a guy who has made some terrible picks already.

JJ is back, and not in small part due to that Kirk is back.
 

With the way that Kirk takes care of himself, and assuming he comes back as best possible and sustains no more major injuries, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that he had three more high level years left in him.

Wants that trophy, more than anything else at this point. And I do believe that he feels KOC and Bflo can take us there, with the right players in place.
 

I'll take Cousins on an extreme team friendly contract. 3 years, 60 million, fully guaranteed. Anything more than that, no thanks.
 

MplsGopher said:
You don’t have the guy shirt off, chain out blowing the horn to open the game, then cut him that offseason.
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Cousins is a free agent. he's not getting cut. he either signs with the Vikings, signs with another team, or retires.

it's a business. a big business. in the end, it all comes down to money.

If Kirk and the Vikings can agree on a contract that both sides accept, then he will come back to the Vikings. if Kirk and the Vikings cannot agree on a contract, he will not come back.

to quote Frank Zappa, I figure the odds be 50-50.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
Depending on the haul, I am trading JJ. This team just has too many talent gaps, buoyed by Kwesi's poor drafting so far
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I would trade JJ in a heartbeat if they got any reasonable return. Can't build a team around a WR, especially with incredible uncertainty at QB. Look how that worked out for the Raiders when they spent a haul getting Davante Adams.

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at all the banging on Kwesi up to this point. For starters, it's been a relatively small sample size, he hasn't been in MSP for that long. Secondly, I'll go out on a limb and guess that 90%+ of the angst and ire direct his way are for Cine and Booth. I'm going to need more than that before I bury him.

The 2023 Draft, Addison and Blackmon have been pretty damn good, and in later rounds, Ward and Roy have definitely contributed and will likely be really good depth pieces. And of course adding Pace as UDFA was a fantastic move and Andre Carter made the team as UDFA as well.

The Hockenson move was great. No other way to paint it.

The rest of 2022 wasn't exactly a total loss either; Ingram and Evans have been regular starters, Ty Chandler looks pretty good as a 5th round pick and Asamoah has stuck on the roster and has just been buried behind Hicks and Pace.

I'll need more information before I bury KAM or praise him too much. Let's see how he handles this offseason, which will be a critical one.
 

forever a gopher said:
These are the free agent QB's this year:
https://sports.yahoo.com/13-nfl-quarterbacks-free-agents-202717864.html

Spoiler alert, it's Cousins and that's it. He will have market cornered for the teams looking for a free agent QB. My guess as to what he'll get is 3 years/$125MM (not including any potential BS "void" years and/or fake salary cap shenanigans). He's not a runner, and he's been incredibly durable, so the Achilles injury likely isn't a huge deal if he passes medical exams. Look below at the current QB contracts. Ryan freakin' Tannehill was making $29.5MM/year this year, Derek Carr is at $37.5MM/year and Daniel Jones is at $40MM/year. While those are all just bad signings, it 100% goes into determining Cousins' value as it "sets the market". I would say Matt Stafford seems like a good corollary to Cousins' value.

Length of term is likely going to be the biggest thing he'll be negotiating. A 2 year deal has him re-hitting FA at 38, which is not ideal. He would likely take less money to get a 3 or 4 year deal which would likely be his final FA deal. OR he really values a SB ring and takes less money to sign with a legit contender he sees actually being able to make a run.

View attachment 29465
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Right.

We're supposed to expect Kirk Cousins to take significantly less money than Daniel Jones, Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Geno Smith, and Jimmy G.

Get real, anyone thinking Cousins should take some schmuck low-ball contract.
 

Nax5 said:
Just learned about this over the weekend. Free 7-part documentary series on the Vikings. Popping up on a lot of Top 10 Films and Top 10 Documentaries for 2023.

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It was so good. And painful. And unbelievable...
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I would trade JJ in a heartbeat if they got any reasonable return. Can't build a team around a WR, especially with incredible uncertainty at QB. Look how that worked out for the Raiders when they spent a haul getting Davante Adams.

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at all the banging on Kwesi up to this point. For starters, it's been a relatively small sample size, he hasn't been in MSP for that long. Secondly, I'll go out on a limb and guess that 90%+ of the angst and ire direct his way are for Cine and Booth. I'm going to need more than that before I bury him.

The 2023 Draft, Addison and Blackmon have been pretty damn good, and in later rounds, Ward and Roy have definitely contributed and will likely be really good depth pieces. And of course adding Pace as UDFA was a fantastic move and Andre Carter made the team as UDFA as well.

The Hockenson move was great. No other way to paint it.

The rest of 2022 wasn't exactly a total loss either; Ingram and Evans have been regular starters, Ty Chandler looks pretty good as a 5th round pick and Asamoah has stuck on the roster and has just been buried behind Hicks and Pace.

I'll need more information before I bury KAM or praise him too much. Let's see how he handles this offseason, which will be a critical one.
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I am way more pessimistic than you. He's an analytics guy, and they scare me.

Cine - could have had Kyle Hamilton or Jordan Davis. Instead you gained Booth.

Kyle Hamilton for Cine and Booth is terrible.

Ed Ingram is replacement level.

I love Hok, but you need can't trade for a guy that is going to get paid when you have to pay JJ. They could have kept the #2nd and took LaPorta, who set TE records as a rookie. On the surface, good trade. But in reality, terrible trade.

He didn't even want Addison. He wanted to trade back AGAIN. KOC begged him to take Addison. No credit there.

Evans and Blackmon are both replacement level at best.

He got lucky with Pace.

Asomoah doesnt play.

Chandler is solid for a 5th rounder, hopefully he learns how to pick up a blitz
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Right.

We're supposed to expect Kirk Cousins to take significantly less money than Daniel Jones, Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Geno Smith, and Jimmy G.

Get real, anyone thinking Cousins should take some schmuck low-ball contract.
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Cousins was asked about this and gave a somewhat vague statement:

"That's a great question and one I've thought about pretty much my whole 12 years," Cousins said. "I do think it's important to be aware of. I think that God has blessed me financially beyond my wildest dreams. So at this stage in my career, the dollars are really not what it's about."

Ultimately, Cousins said, "structure is probably more important." Asked his definition of "structure," he said: "Everything that isn't the dollars. That stuff you also work through."

That has the pro-Kirk crowd believing that Kirk will give the Vikes a "hometown discount." But he has never done that in his career - indeed, has done the opposite by demanding a 100% fully-guaranteed contract.

here is my stance:
IF Cousins is willing to give the Vikes a discount, then I think he comes back.
But IF Cousins wants big money, like 3 years at $40-million plus, then I think that makes it really hard to bring him back AND address all of the team's other needs. If they sign Cousins, JJ, Hunter and Darrisaw to big money deals, the rest of the team is going to be castoffs and has-beens.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Cousins was asked about this and gave a somewhat vague statement:

"That's a great question and one I've thought about pretty much my whole 12 years," Cousins said. "I do think it's important to be aware of. I think that God has blessed me financially beyond my wildest dreams. So at this stage in my career, the dollars are really not what it's about."

Ultimately, Cousins said, "structure is probably more important." Asked his definition of "structure," he said: "Everything that isn't the dollars. That stuff you also work through."

That has the pro-Kirk crowd believing that Kirk will give the Vikes a "hometown discount." But he has never done that in his career - indeed, has done the opposite by demanding a 100% fully-guaranteed contract.

here is my stance:
IF Cousins is willing to give the Vikes a discount, then I think he comes back.
But IF Cousins wants big money, like 3 years at $40-million plus, then I think that makes it really hard to bring him back AND address all of the team's other needs. If they sign Cousins, JJ, Hunter and Darrisaw to big money deals, the rest of the team is going to be castoffs and has-beens.
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Soooo, that begs the question, what's a "hometown discount"?

If a discount means he takes $2 or maybe even $3M/year less than someone else is offering, I think that's reasonable to expect and hope that he takes.

But if anyone is expecting a QB of his caliber, in a year where there is ZERO other options for available QB, to take $5-$10M less per year than he can get somewhere else, you're out of your f*cking mind.

I wouldn't expect ANYONE to do something like that, barring a Brady-like situation where there's a winning system in place, a HC with the pelts on the wall, and a winning ready-made roster in place. That's not the case in Minnesota.

EDIT: As far as the cap, and signing other players to extensions and the reality of today's NFL salary cap, that ain't Kirk's problem. That's the responsibility of the Front Office to work around that in order to have a QB that at least gives you a chance to win every Sunday.
 

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