All Things 2024-25 Minnesota Timberwolves In-Season Thread

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
They're both 7 footers. G/F are effective for longer in their careers than centers. Only 5 of the top 36 oldest players in the NBA currently are centers. Big men break down much faster.



You're forgetting playoffs. Tatum played in 339 vs Ant's 329.

And it'll be 2 more seasons until Ant is the same age as Tatum when he won his first championship.
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The last sentence is irrelevant.

Jamal Murray, another top tier guard, played virtually every game his first three years in the league. Since his fourth year he's played in about half the Nugget's games. There are more Murrays than Tatums.

I decided to drill down a little more on your contention that smalls last longer than bigs. The average height in the league is now slightly over 6'6". In 2023-2024, of the 25 oldest players in the league, 16 were 6'8" or taller.
 


jamiche said:
Maybe because he splits his time with Lively.
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Curiously, after reading about splitting the atom, your post inspired me to think creatively about physics. What could happen if we could split time? Fascinating.

Okay, my brain is now bent in a pretzel shape. Thanks for that. I blame you.

Carry on. Good morning. I'll go back to bed now.... not that I'll get any sleep. I just had to read the message board!
 

Oneoldgopher said:
Curiously, after reading about splitting the atom, your post inspired me to think creatively about physics. What could happen if we could split time? Fascinating.

Okay, my brain is now bent in a pretzel shape. Thanks for that. I blame you.

Carry on. Good morning. I'll go back to bed now.... not that I'll get any sleep. I just had to read the message board!
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Now you've taken me back to the playoffs last year. All those alley oop passes from Doncic or Kyrie to Gafford and Lively with Rudy standing idly by.
 

jamiche said:
The last sentence is irrelevant.

Jamal Murray, another top tier guard, played virtually every game his first three years in the league. Since his fourth year he's played in about half the Nugget's games. There are more Murrays than Tatums.

I decided to drill down a little more on your contention that smalls last longer than bigs. The average height in the league is now slightly over 6'6". In 2023-2024, of the 25 oldest players in the league, 16 were 6'8" or taller.
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You're just cherry picking players here and there to try and convince yourself of some irrational fear you have of Ant getting hurt. Murray's injuries started in year 4 and got worse from there. Yet his last 3 years have been his best years as a player, from the age of 25-27.

My last sentence is not irrelevant. Worrying about Ant being injured when he hasn't missed any significant time due to injury is irrelevant.

It has taken nearly every championship level NBA superstar until they are 26-28 years old to win their first title, and then they go on to win several more after. It takes time to develop to that level. Thinking Ant and the Wolves need to win one before he's 25 is again just stupid.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
You're just cherry picking players here and there to try and convince yourself of some irrational fear you have of Ant getting hurt. Murray's injuries started in year 4 and got worse from there. Yet his last 3 years have been his best years as a player, from the age of 25-27.

My last sentence is not irrelevant. Worrying about Ant being injured when he hasn't missed any significant time due to injury is irrelevant.

It has taken nearly every championship level NBA superstar until they are 26-28 years old to win their first title, and then they go on to win several more after. It takes time to develop to that level. Thinking Ant and the Wolves need to win one before he's 25 is again just stupid.
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Murray’s first three years in the league he averaged 80 games/year. His last three seasons, 57 games/year. Not really his best years as a player when he’s available less than 70% of the time.

You are citing examples in an attempt to prove a point. I can as well.

I never said Ant had to win a championship now. My point is that his period of peak production is now. In the coming seasons he’s going to start missing games due to wear and tear. He may win a title when he’s past peak production if he has the right surrounding cast.
 

jamiche said:
Murray’s first three years in the league he averaged 80 games/year. His last three seasons, 57 games/year. Not really his best years as a player when he’s available less than 70% of the time.

You are citing examples in an attempt to prove a point. I can as well.

I never said Ant had to win a championship now. My point is that his period of peak production is now. In the coming seasons he’s going to start missing games due to wear and tear. He may win a title when he’s past peak production if he has the right surrounding cast.
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And Denver won a title 2 years ago despite less availability from Murray because he was also a better player than he was between the ages of 19-23.

Ant will be in peak production for the next 7-10 years. Thinking this is the best Ant will ever be is nonsense.

And the team is being built with that in mind.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
And Denver won a title 2 years ago despite less availability from Murray because he was also a better player than he was between the ages of 19-23.

Ant will be in peak production for the next 7-10 years. Thinking this is the best Ant will ever be is nonsense.

And the team is being built with that in mind.
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Denver won the title because Jokic was the best player in the league and they had a talented and deep roster. Murray was available less than 80% of the games and it wasn’t statistically his best year.

Ant staying at his peak for 7-10 more years is based on wishful thinking. I hope you are right but there is no statistical basis for your prediction.
 

jamiche said:
Denver won the title because Jokic was the best player in the league and they had a talented and deep roster. Murray was available less than 80% of the games and it wasn’t statistically his best year.

Ant staying at his peak for 7-10 more years is based on wishful thinking. I hope you are right but there is no statistical basis for your prediction.
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They peak at 23

LMAO
 



jamiche said:
Denver won the title because Jokic was the best player in the league and they had a talented and deep roster. Murray was available less than 80% of the games and it wasn’t statistically his best year.

Ant staying at his peak for 7-10 more years is based on wishful thinking. I hope you are right but there is no statistical basis for your prediction.
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There is absolutely statistical basis for my prediction, I literally laid out that yesterday that nearly every NBA superstar doesn't win their first title until they are 26-28 years old.

Denver only further proves my point. Jokic and Murray have played together their entire careers. Jokic has been one of the best players in the NBA since he was 23. Yet Denver didn't win a title until Jokic was 28 and Murray was 26.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
There is absolutely statistical basis for my prediction, I literally laid out that yesterday that nearly every NBA superstar doesn't win their first title until they are 26-28 years old.

Denver only further proves my point. Jokic and Murray have played together their entire careers. Jokic has been one of the best players in the NBA since he was 23. Yet Denver didn't win a title until Jokic was 28 and Murray was 26.
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Murray hasn't been consistently available since his third year. The reason Jokic is still playing well is he didn't play as many games when he was young. You keep talking about titles. That depends on an entire roster. There are many great players who have never won a title. I'm talking about availability.

I debunked your "statistical basis" in an earlier post.
 

jamiche said:
Murray hasn't been consistently available since his third year. The reason Jokic is still playing well is he didn't play as many games when he was young. You keep talking about titles. That depends on an entire roster. There are many great players who have never won a title. I'm talking about availability.

I debunked your "statistical basis" in an earlier post.
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You haven't debunked anything. And what are you talking about Jokic not playing as many games when he was young? He's been in the NBA since he was 20 and hasn't missed any significant time due to injury. He played in Serbian pro leagues for 3 years before that. According to you he should be cooked by the age of 25, yet his best years have all been at 25 and older.

We're talking about titles because you keep saying the Wolves are in win now mode. If they're not competing for and winning a title, then who cares? What are they trying to 'win now'?

This continues to be a laughably ridiculous argument by you. There isn't anyone on the planet that thinks this is the best Ant will ever be other than you.

Maybe you should revisit another one of your hot takes that Dillingham is too small to make an impact on this team this year because it's 'football without pads'.
 








fan of Ray Williams said:
Nothing to do with what you said, but I watched the final quarter of OKC vs Portland and kept thinking how valuable an addition Hartenstein was for them. And only 26. They keep rolling without Holmgren.
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Hartenstein might even challenge Jalen Williams as their most important player besides SGA. Toughness, rebounding and his assist #'s are incredible for a big guy.
 

Slim Tubby said:
Hartenstein might even challenge Jalen Williams as their most important player besides SGA. Toughness, rebounding and his assist #'s are incredible for a big guy.
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Announcers were saying the Thunder are the best team in the history of the NBA in their, ( I guess it would be called) turnover ratio. They lead the league in turning you over and lead in not being turned over.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You haven't debunked anything. And what are you talking about Jokic not playing as many games when he was young? He's been in the NBA since he was 20 and hasn't missed any significant time due to injury. He played in Serbian pro leagues for 3 years before that. According to you he should be cooked by the age of 25, yet his best years have all been at 25 and older.

We're talking about titles because you keep saying the Wolves are in win now mode. If they're not competing for and winning a title, then who cares? What are they trying to 'win now'?

This continues to be a laughably ridiculous argument by you. There isn't anyone on the planet that thinks this is the best Ant will ever be other than you.

Maybe you should revisit another one of your hot takes that Dillingham is too small to make an impact on this team this year because it's 'football without pads'.
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More shitposting.

I'm glad you brought up Jokic. His three seasons in the Serbian league consisted of 5 games, 24 games and 26 games. He arrived in the NBA after basically playing two high school length seasons. He didn't play that many minutes his first year with the Nuggets. His availability dropped off starting in year five, though not that much. A little more than 10%.

You are talking about titles. I said the future is now because I think Edwards is somewhere near his peak. Not because of ability or experience, but because of usage. Any opportunity for a title dissolved with the KAT trade.

There are a lot of collisions on the court, often at high speeds and the players are not wearing pads and helmets. Players end up on the floor multiple times a game. Players stop and start at high speeds. It is a very physical game. The "football without pads" description obviously bothers you, which means that it works.

Rob is a fun, exciting player to watch. Very quick, with good offensive skills. The reason Finch didn't play him until he had to is Rob is clueless on defense. Even now Finch only plays him when the other team puts a smaller guard in the game. He needs to gain twenty lbs and learn how to play NBA defense. Then he'll really help the wolves in this "football without pads" league.
 

Young, Johnson, Daniels, Nance and Zeller all out for ATL and they're on a 4-game losing streak. What could possibly go wrong?

Hoping to see Dilly continue his improved play.
 


jamiche said:
More shitposting.

I'm glad you brought up Jokic. His three seasons in the Serbian league consisted of 5 games, 24 games and 26 games. He arrived in the NBA after basically playing two high school length seasons. He didn't play that many minutes his first year with the Nuggets. His availability dropped off starting in year five, though not that much. A little more than 10%.

You are talking about titles. I said the future is now because I think Edwards is somewhere near his peak. Not because of ability or experience, but because of usage. Any opportunity for a title dissolved with the KAT trade.

There are a lot of collisions on the court, often at high speeds and the players are not wearing pads and helmets. Players end up on the floor multiple times a game. Players stop and start at high speeds. It is a very physical game. The "football without pads" description obviously bothers you, which means that it works.

Rob is a fun, exciting player to watch. Very quick, with good offensive skills. The reason Finch didn't play him until he had to is Rob is clueless on defense. Even now Finch only plays him when the other team puts a smaller guard in the game. He needs to gain twenty lbs and learn how to play NBA defense. Then he'll really help the wolves in this "football without pads" league.
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I list out a bunch of statistics and you call it shit posting. You call dribbling 3 point line to 3 point line and launching 3s for 3/4 of the game football without pads.

Dillingham's weight has nothing to do with him not playing defense. It has everything to do with him being a 20 year old rookie. His listed weight is the same as Conley's, But I guess he needs to put on 20 lbs too. He doesn't only play against smaller guards, proving once again you don't even watch the games.

More proof that you don't watch the games or have any basketball knowledge is thinking that Ant has reached his peak and can't get significantly better. There is a lot he can, and will get better at.

Trading KAT is maximizing Ant's window to win a championship. KAT will never win a NBA championship as the first or second option because he's not mentally capable. I will bet a lot of money that Ant does because he is mentally capable, he just needs to finish growing up.
 





GopherWeatherGuy said:
I list out a bunch of statistics and you call it shit posting. You call dribbling 3 point line to 3 point line and launching 3s for 3/4 of the game football without pads.

Dillingham's weight has nothing to do with him not playing defense. It has everything to do with him being a 20 year old rookie. His listed weight is the same as Conley's, But I guess he needs to put on 20 lbs too. He doesn't only play against smaller guards, proving once again you don't even watch the games.

More proof that you don't watch the games or have any basketball knowledge is thinking that Ant has reached his peak and can't get significantly better. There is a lot he can, and will get better at.

Trading KAT is maximizing Ant's window to win a championship. KAT will never win a NBA championship as the first or second option because he's not mentally capable. I will bet a lot of money that Ant does because he is mentally capable, he just needs to finish growing up.
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Do you really think Dillingham and Conley weigh the same? Do you really think Rob is 6'3" and 175lbs, as listed on some current sites. When he was drafted in June he was listed at 6'0" and 160lbs. Did he grow an imaginary 3" and gain an imaginary 15lbs? Nope. Rob did go to the line for the first time last night, so he had a little physical contact in game 46. He was also getting left in the dust on defense by the Atl G leaguers. DDV is out and it looks like NAW might be injured. Finch said at the beginning of the year that he's going to get one out of three good games from Rob. That seems to be the pattern. When he gets bigger, stronger and more experienced,, he'll probably be pretty good. Now he's just fun. Finch's job is to win games. That's how NBA coaches stay employed. If he thought Rob could help him win games, he would have played him a lot more.

Do you really think Ant just runs 3pt line to 3pt line? He gets to the line over five times per game and it would be more if he complained less. Yes, he shoots a lot of threes. He's also all over the floor. And on the floor. A lot.

Ant may well improve his game but he is going to be less available, so that improvement, if it happens, will be mitigated by fewer games. If you don't believe me on the issue of wear and tear (and you don't), take a shot at this.

It's a Hard-Knock Life: Game Load, Fatigue, and Injury Risk in the National Basketball Association - PMC

National Basketball Association (NBA) athletes experience a high rate of injuries. Injury prevention requires identifying observable and controllable risk factors. To examine the relationship among game load, fatigue, and injuries in NBA athletes. ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 

Slim Tubby said:
Hartenstein might even challenge Jalen Williams as their most important player besides SGA. Toughness, rebounding and his assist #'s are incredible for a big guy.
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His career arc is crazy.

He spent lots of time in the G League IIRC and slowly became this beast.
 

jamiche said:
Do you really think Dillingham and Conley weigh the same? Do you really think Rob is 6'3" and 175lbs, as listed on some current sites. When he was drafted in June he was listed at 6'0" and 160lbs. Did he grow an imaginary 3" and gain an imaginary 15lbs? Nope. Rob did go to the line for the first time last night, so he had a little physical contact in game 46. He was also getting left in the dust on defense by the Atl G leaguers. DDV is out and it looks like NAW might be injured. Finch said at the beginning of the year that he's going to get one out of three good games from Rob. That seems to be the pattern. When he gets bigger, stronger and more experienced,, he'll probably be pretty good. Now he's just fun. Finch's job is to win games. That's how NBA coaches stay employed. If he thought Rob could help him win games, he would have played him a lot more.
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Here's Dillingham next to a 6'4" 225 lb Ant with Conley behind him last night. Yeah I'd say he's at least 6'3"175.


jamiche said:
Do you really think Ant just runs 3pt line to 3pt line? He gets to the line over five times per game and it would be more if he complained less. Yes, he shoots a lot of threes. He's also all over the floor. And on the floor. A lot.
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That's a lot of teams in the NBA and Ant has done it more this year than ever. He's shooting 3 more 3's this year and 1.3 fewer FT's than last year. And I never remember players being on the floor in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. Totally a new phenomenon.

jamiche said:
Ant may well improve his game but he is going to be less available, so that improvement, if it happens, will be mitigated by fewer games. If you don't believe me on the issue of wear and tear (and you don't), take a shot at this.

It's a Hard-Knock Life: Game Load, Fatigue, and Injury Risk in the National Basketball Association - PMC

National Basketball Association (NBA) athletes experience a high rate of injuries. Injury prevention requires identifying observable and controllable risk factors. To examine the relationship among game load, fatigue, and injuries in NBA athletes. ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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So your odds of injury increase when you get older, what a surprise. You still build when your players are at their peak in their mid to upper 20s.

According to you this team is Ant in his prime and a bunch of players past their prime. And you think they should have kept another player past his prime to win now. By next year this whole team will be past their primes including Ant. And you think that makes sense. Laughable.
 

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