All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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short ornery norwegian said:
so just saw that Sean Desai has pulled himself out of consideration for the Vikes' DC job as he is interviewing for the Broncos' DC position.

being a MN fan and a fatalist - I have this sneaking feeling that when the music stops playing in the game of DC musical chairs, the Vikes may be the team left standing.
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The correct move is to return to a 4-3 defense.

And to be an attacking, aggressive blitzing defense.


Tired, year after year, of just sitting in Base and hoping for the best. Go down fighting.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Full disclosure, I bought those SB tickets in later December, a few weeks left in the season, when both the Vikings and the wife's Steelers had a pretty decent chance of at least one of them making the SB;
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In other words, the experience of being at the SB when (neither of) your team(s) aren't in the game, is vastly irrelevant.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Vikings fired Donatell is what I was saying. And even if Evero had more control over Denver's defense this season, it was his first season as D coordinator, with a talented D. Just like Donatell, he's not going to have that luxury here. No matter who they hire, this defensive will continue to stink until they figure out how to draft players on that side of the ball.
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If he can get the defense from 31st to 18th most will be thrilled though.
 

Gophers_4life said:
The correct move is to return to a 4-3 defense.

And to be an attacking, aggressive blitzing defense.


Tired, year after year, of just sitting in Base and hoping for the best. Go down fighting.
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then the question becomes: do the Vikings have the personnel to play that scheme? if they don't have the personnel, do they have the draft picks and cap space needed to re-shape the defense?

it's easy to say change the defense. but the defense is played by players. and to acquire players, you have to have draft picks, cap space or have something worth trading.

the last thing they should do is try to shove round pegs into square holes. Spielman tried that and look at the result.
 

howeda7 said:
If he can get the defense from 31st to 18th most will be thrilled though.
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Agree, but that was the hope last year too. The coaches changed, the players mostly stayed the same, and the end result was the same.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
then the question becomes: do the Vikings have the personnel to play that scheme? if they don't have the personnel, do they have the draft picks and cap space needed to re-shape the defense?

it's easy to say change the defense. but the defense is played by players. and to acquire players, you have to have draft picks, cap space or have something worth trading.

the last thing they should do is try to shove round pegs into square holes. Spielman tried that and look at the result.
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Most of our defense was here in 2021, playing a 4-3.

Hunter, Kendricks, and H Smith are probably still going to be here in 2023, and they all know and function better in a standard NFL 4-3.

Smith, in particular, is a gifted blitzer and had that almost completely taken away from him in 2022. Kendricks is not suited to lead the huddle and do what was asked of him. Hunter is better in a 4-3 with his hand on the ground rushing. Same probably goes for Wonnum and Pat Jones II.

Get rid of Z Smith and Hicks.


Yes, I know the 2021 defense sucked too. But they weren't doing just plain mind-boggling crap. They'd at least be sound.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Yes, I know the 2021 defense sucked too. But they weren't doing just plain mind-boggling crap. They'd at least be sound.
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The 2021 Defense did some stupid stuff as well, like the final drive/play against then hapless Detroit. It's what probably sealed the fate of the Zim/Speilman.

I'm not advocating status quo at all with coaches and personel, but for all your comments about the 2022 Defense "doing stupid stuff" at least they were good in the clutch, often.

Of course the first 3.5 quarters of games were often quite pourous. That's a big issue. Understatement.
 

Ope3 said:
The 2021 Defense did some stupid stuff as well, like the final drive/play against then hapless Detroit. It's what probably sealed the fate of the Zim/Speilman.

I'm not advocating status quo at all with coaches and personel, but for all your comments about the 2022 Defense "doing stupid stuff" at least they were good in the clutch, often.

Of course the first 3.5 quarters of games were often quite pourous. That's a big issue. Understatement.
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Not going to rehash the same debate we already had agree to disagree.

I will choose to believe that if we could somehow attach the 2021 Viking defense with Zimmer calling plays to the 2022 Viking offense with KOC calling plays, and Zimmer doesn't even look at or talk to any offensive player, then we at least make the NFC championship game and at least make #2 seed.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Not going to rehash the same debate we already had agree to disagree.

I will choose to believe that if we could somehow attach the 2021 Viking defense with Zimmer calling plays to the 2022 Viking offense with KOC calling plays, and Zimmer doesn't even look at or talk to any offensive player, then we at least make the NFC championship game and at least make #2 seed.
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You really honestly in your heart believe a Zimmer led defense would have the mettle to make Defensive stops similar to what this year's team did in these contests?

- Lions (@ home)
- Bears (@ home)
- Saints (granted missed FG)
- Patriots
- Bills
- Jets
- Colts

Granted, hopefully they would have played better so it wouldn't have come down to that, but the overall rankings in yardage was similar, so I think any difference would be negligible. Any hope of Zim being better would simply be blind faith, IMO.

As you said covered ground.

Here's what I know, in 2020 & 2021 whenever it was down to the wire, I felt sheer dread and very little confidence the Vikings would win. 50/50 at best.

2022 after a few of those I started to believe. Even the Giants Playoff game they got the ball back for the Offense to try and tie before the 2 minute warning. I think a Giant dropped a wide open pass. Minor detail.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
then the question becomes: do the Vikings have the personnel to play that scheme? if they don't have the personnel, do they have the draft picks and cap space needed to re-shape the defense?

it's easy to say change the defense. but the defense is played by players. and to acquire players, you have to have draft picks, cap space or have something worth trading.

the last thing they should do is try to shove round pegs into square holes. Spielman tried that and look at the result.
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Nothing wrong with the scheme the Vikings ran last year; Donatell did a shitty job of teaching it. And it typically takes a long time to pick it up anyway. To top that off, it's infinitely more difficult when you don't have Corners and the Vikes were looking for CB's off the scrap pile by midseason.

I wouldn't be opposed to switching schemes, but to think that's going to immediately improve things is a little naive. Don't be surprised to see them hire a coach that will still run the 3-4, but with differences in coverage on the back end.
 

Ope3 said:
You really honestly in your heart believe a Zimmer led defense would have the mettle to make Defensive stops similar to what this year's team did in these contests?

- Lions (@ home)
- Bears (@ home)
- Saints (granted missed FG)
- Patriots
- Bills
- Jets
- Colts
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It was mostly the same players and they would've been in a superior scheme that they better understood and had more experience with.

So I have to answer yes, and like you said perhaps a few of those wouldn't have had to come down to the wire like that.

Ope3 said:
Here's what I know, in 2020 & 2021 whenever it was down to the wire, I felt sheer dread and very little confidence the Vikings would win. 50/50 at best.

2022 after a few of those I started to believe. Even the Giants Playoff game they got the ball back for the Offense to try and tie before the 2 minute warning. I think a Giant dropped a wide open pass. Minor detail.
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I bet a lot of people would agree with you. All good, my thing is a figment of my imagination.
 

FWIW, I heard it cited that PFF had Peterson and Duke Shelley as the highest rated pair of CB's on any team in the league (meeting minimum number of defensive snaps).

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
 

Gophers_4life said:
FWIW, I heard it cited that PFF had Peterson and Duke Shelley as the highest rated pair of CB's on any team in the league (meeting minimum number of defensive snaps).

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
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And Hunter and Zadarius combined for like 18 sacks. Yet we had the worst pass defense in the league. Shows that pff grades aren't everything. And how bad our linebackers sucked.
 



howeda7 said:
And Hunter and Zadarius combined for like 18 sacks. Yet we had the worst pass defense in the league. Shows that pff grades aren't everything. And how bad our linebackers sucked.
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Dangerous to put a ton of stock into PFF, but it's not a terrible resource. Strangely enough, I had read/heard somewhere that the Vikings had a pretty respectable Pressure Rate for the pass rush, but shitty sack numbers. Just couldn't close the deal apparently.
 





Well, I hope he's better than Donatell. From what I can see in short Google search, he's another 3-4 guy.
 






Bob_Loblaw said:
Lance and a 1st for Cousins. Done. It will finally force us to blow it up.
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I want nothing to do with Lance. He was already very overrated coming out of college and doesn't throw the ball with any accuracy. Now he's a run first QB recovering from a catastrophic leg injury. I'll be surprised if he's still in the league in a few years.

Keep Cousins and roll the dice on a middle of the draft QB who can throw first, and move a little.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I want nothing to do with Lance. He was already very overrated coming out of college and doesn't throw the ball with any accuracy. Now he's a run first QB recovering from a catastrophic leg injury. I'll be surprised if he's still in the league in a few years.

Keep Cousins and roll the dice on a middle of the draft QB who can throw first, and move a little.
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Yeah, I'm not a big Trey Lance fan either, I was just looking at it like a roll of the dice with Lance and a 1st for Cousins. I don't look at him like a Bryce Young or Stroud.

A big part of that is that I think the staff would then really move on from some of our expensive older players.
 

Is Kellen Mond available? He was supposed to be the answer, right?
 

If the Viking brain trust really believes that the 2023 team can compete for an NFC championship, they'll keep Cousins.

Who will be 35 years old, and yet to win most big games, and shine brightest when we need it most.

But perhaps they feel that they were right about 2022 being that, and we just picked the wrong DC.


I fully acknowledge that he had the best year of his career, and managed to do so while getting pummeled in the backfield. Part of that is his own fault, for being a statue. But it is what it is.


I just don't feel like 2023 can be an even better version of 2022. I feel like 2023 is the 2010 to 2022's 2009, even though obviously we ended the playoffs this year with an awful dud.


So, I'd rather get rid of Cousins this offseason, if at all possible.


Does he (Cousins) really believe he can win an NFC championship at Minnesota? How many good years does he have left?? Gotta be like 2-3 at most. If he cares about getting a fair chance at playoff glory, he has to leave here. Surly he knows this ....???
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, I'm not a big Trey Lance fan either, I was just looking at it like a roll of the dice with Lance and a 1st for Cousins. I don't look at him like a Bryce Young or Stroud.

A big part of that is that I think the staff would then really move on from some of our expensive older players.
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I get where you're going, but San Fran doesn't have a 1st round pick this year, and will Lance even be healthy at the beginning of next season?

If the Vikings made that move, it would be purely to tank, which I don't think they have any interest in, and then they would likely draft a QB anyways.
 

I'm trying to guess how most NFL teams would respond to having a 13-win season while fielding the 31st-ranked defense.

Obviously, dump the QB and burn it all down and start over would be a popular choice.
 

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