All Things 2023-2024 Minnesota Timberwolves In-Season Thread

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Iceland12 said:
Wolves 102 - Milwaukee 75 after 3. Minnesota only has 4 turnovers to Milwaukee's 9

Michael Beasley is 1 for12 and 0-8 from 3.

www.espn.com

Timberwolves 129-105 Bucks (Feb 8, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Minnesota Timberwolves vs. Milwaukee Bucks NBA game from February 8, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Beasley was 7-9 on 3's tonight.

That's just how I remember him. So damn up and down.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
They're not moving the team to Mexico City, and Nashville is a smaller market that already has two other pro teams. It wouldn't make any sense to move them there either.



This team is nowhere near as good without Gobert this season, and Kessler isn't in the same vicinity as a player as Rudy is. The long term repercussions are minimal. This is a laughable take at this point.



Thinking the future of one of the worst run franchises in the history of professional sports is now more unstable with new ownership and one of the best GMs in the game also gave me a nice laugh.

I agree with you on Grady though, I am a fan.
Click to expand...
Mexico City is next behind Seattle and Vegas in NBA expansion plans. 22M metro area, NBA ready modern arena, 11th wealthiest person in the world who wants in, G League team, strong basketball interest. Biggest drawback: altitude.

Nashville has the same metro area population as Vegas and has a helluva lot more of a growth arc than the Twin Cities. Vegas will have three professional franchises in the next five years, possibly four.

There are other cities. Once it's known the franchise is "available" to be moved, markets will emerge and Lore/ARod will go where they can get the most money, subject to league approval.

Kessler has comparable numbers to Rudy this year per 36, including more blocks per 36. At 5% of the cost. At age twenty two. Check it out on basketball reference. I was wrong that it was one of the five worst trades in NBA history. Most of the sites that rank bad trades have it in the worst 10-15. Those sites include trades that go back to the '50's and '60's.

As a consequence of the trade, some combination of KAT, McDaniels and/or Conley will have to go this off season.

Yup, the timberwolves have been one of the most poorly run franchises in prof sports. The ultimate instability of a professional franchise is departure. That's what's on the table day one if these guys come up with the rest of what they owe. Even if ARod wasn't a known liar, if the sources are accurate they don't have the capital to operate the team here in Target Center. It's that simple.
 

jamiche said:
Mexico City is next behind Seattle and Vegas in NBA expansion plans. 22M metro area, NBA ready modern arena, 11th wealthiest person in the world who wants in, G League team, strong basketball interest. Biggest drawback: altitude.

Nashville has the same metro area population as Vegas and has a helluva lot more of a growth arc than the Twin Cities. Vegas will have three professional franchises in the next five years, possibly four.

There are other cities. Once it's known the franchise is "available" to be moved, markets will emerge and Lore/ARod will go where they can get the most money, subject to league approval.

Kessler has comparable numbers to Rudy this year per 36, including more blocks per 36. At 5% of the cost. At age twenty two. Check it out on basketball reference. I was wrong that it was one of the five worst trades in NBA history. Most of the sites that rank bad trades have it in the worst 10-15. Those sites include trades that go back to the '50's and '60's.

As a consequence of the trade, some combination of KAT, McDaniels and/or Conley will have to go this off season.

Yup, the timberwolves have been one of the most poorly run franchises in prof sports. The ultimate instability of a professional franchise is departure. That's what's on the table day one if these guys come up with the rest of what they owe. Even if ARod wasn't a known liar, if the sources are accurate they don't have the capital to operate the team here in Target Center. It's that simple.
Click to expand...

Rudy does a hell of a lot more than what shows up in the box score. He disrupts the entire opposing teams offense in the lane. He's the main reason the Wolves are now the best defensive teams in the league. Utah is now one of the worst, but they were one of the best with Rudy. If you don't understand this then I question how much of the Wolves you've even watched.

Conely will go in the offseason because his contract is up. KAT and McDaniels don't have to go anywhere. Rudy only has two years left on his contract after this season, one if he doesn't pick up his player option for the final year.

If the new owners don't have the capital to run the team here in Target Center, then they don't have the capital to move a team to a new city. You continue to be wrong every time you bring up the money argument.
 


jamiche said:
Mexico City is next behind Seattle and Vegas in NBA expansion plans. 22M metro area, NBA ready modern arena, 11th wealthiest person in the world who wants in, G League team, strong basketball interest. Biggest drawback: altitude.

Nashville has the same metro area population as Vegas and has a helluva lot more of a growth arc than the Twin Cities. Vegas will have three professional franchises in the next five years, possibly four.

There are other cities. Once it's known the franchise is "available" to be moved, markets will emerge and Lore/ARod will go where they can get the most money, subject to league approval.

Kessler has comparable numbers to Rudy this year per 36, including more blocks per 36. At 5% of the cost. At age twenty two. Check it out on basketball reference. I was wrong that it was one of the five worst trades in NBA history. Most of the sites that rank bad trades have it in the worst 10-15. Those sites include trades that go back to the '50's and '60's.

As a consequence of the trade, some combination of KAT, McDaniels and/or Conley will have to go this off season.

Yup, the timberwolves have been one of the most poorly run franchises in prof sports. The ultimate instability of a professional franchise is departure. That's what's on the table day one if these guys come up with the rest of what they owe. Even if ARod wasn't a known liar, if the sources are accurate they don't have the capital to operate the team here in Target Center. It's that simple.
Click to expand...
What NBA player would ever want anything to do with Mexico City? With the Cartel and other criminal entities in total control of the country, they'd be a "kidnapping for ransom" target IMO.

As for Rudy, stats and PER don't even begin to define his impact on winning basketball. His offensive screen game and paint-to-perimeter range on defense are incredible for a guy his size. I'd make the trade again without a second thought.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Rudy does a hell of a lot more than what shows up in the box score. He disrupts the entire opposing teams offense in the lane. He's the main reason the Wolves are now the best defensive teams in the league. Utah is now one of the worst, but they were one of the best with Rudy. If you don't understand this then I question how much of the Wolves you've even watched.

Conely will go in the offseason because his contract is up. KAT and McDaniels don't have to go anywhere. Rudy only has two years left on his contract after this season, one if he doesn't pick up his player option for the final year.

If the new owners don't have the capital to run the team here in Target Center, then they don't have the capital to move a team to a new city. You continue to be wrong every time you bring up the money argument.
Click to expand...
Nobody is disputing that Rudy is an excellent defensive player. The wolves are are also number one because, for the first time since KG, they have multiple capable defenders (in addition to Gobert). Gobert's talent isn't the point. It's the cost of his talent relative to Kessler and relative to the five draft picks and the two pick swaps. The players the wolves gave up are pretty irrelevant. Hopefully, you can begin to understand the point.

From what I've read the wolves will try to retain Conley. They don't have a better option at pg. According to the WSJ, if everybody comes back the franchise will face a luxury tax penalty of $124.5M next year. That's over 25% of ARod's net worth. Modern NBA owners have to be able to sustain operating losses because the reversion is amazing. It's gone from 3-4X to 10-12X in the last few years. Because the NBA is so capital intensive, being a mere billionaire isn't enough to sustain the operating losses usually associated with putting a contending team on the floor. Mark Cuban recently referred to himself as a "middle class NBA billionaire" and he sold to folks who would laugh at a $120M operating loss. Seems crazy but it's true.

In terms of relocation, to my knowledge nobody has ever moved a franchise unless they were going to get a lot more money. A new market will produce new up front capital and new rev streams. I'll let you figure out how that might happen since you think relocation is just trading dollars.
 

jamiche said:
Nobody is disputing that Rudy is an excellent defensive player. The wolves are are also number one because, for the first time since KG, they have multiple capable defenders (in addition to Gobert). Gobert's talent isn't the point. It's the cost of his talent relative to Kessler and relative to the five draft picks and the two pick swaps. The players the wolves gave up are pretty irrelevant. Hopefully, you can begin to understand the point.
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No, I don't understand the point. Gobert is a significantly better player than Kessler. The trade is one of the main reasons why this years team is currently #1 in the west. Late 1st round picks in the NBA are about the equivalent to 4th or 5th round picks in the NFL. The Wolves still got a 1st round talent in Miller and he doesn't even play, plus they will have their 1st rounder this season. And their young core is all locked up for the future.

jamiche said:
From what I've read the wolves will try to retain Conley. They don't have a better option at pg. According to the WSJ, if everybody comes back the franchise will face a luxury tax penalty of $124.5M next year. That's over 25% of ARod's net worth. Modern NBA owners have to be able to sustain operating losses because the reversion is amazing. It's gone from 3-4X to 10-12X in the last few years. Because the NBA is so capital intensive, being a mere billionaire isn't enough to sustain the operating losses usually associated with putting a contending team on the floor. Mark Cuban recently referred to himself as a "middle class NBA billionaire" and he sold to folks who would laugh at a $120M operating loss. Seems crazy but it's true.

In terms of relocation, to my knowledge nobody has ever moved a franchise unless they were going to get a lot more money. A new market will produce new up front capital and new rev streams. I'll let you figure out how that might happen since you think relocation is just trading dollars.
Click to expand...

I've said it before, Ant is their long term option at PG. It's what Denver did with Jamal Murray, OKC did with SGA, and Miami with Herro. They came into the league as combo/SG's and transitioned into PGs as they grew. Ant is doing the same thing.

In the whole capital/relocation discussion, you seem to forget that multi-billionaire Glen Taylor will still retain 20% of ownership for the foreseeable future. That's another reason why they're not a threat to leave, and Mexico City as an option is laughable.
 

jamiche said:
He did look good in the summer league. I hadn't seen him on the court in a long time. I was surprised by how unsure he looked, even in garbage time. I didn't know he was sick, so that probably explains it.
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Hard for anyone to play a minute every 2 months.
 



Slim Tubby said:
What NBA player would ever want anything to do with Mexico City? With the Cartel and other criminal entities in total control of the country, they'd be a "kidnapping for ransom" target IMO.

As for Rudy, stats and PER don't even begin to define his impact on winning basketball. His offensive screen game and paint-to-perimeter range on defense are incredible for a guy his size. I'd make the trade again without a second thought.
Click to expand...
If they didn't make that trade, I think we are still being tortured by having to watch D-Lo. That is reason #1 for my change of opinion.
 






GopherWeatherGuy said:
No, I don't understand the point. Gobert is a significantly better player than Kessler. The trade is one of the main reasons why this years team is currently #1 in the west. Late 1st round picks in the NBA are about the equivalent to 4th or 5th round picks in the NFL. The Wolves still got a 1st round talent in Miller and he doesn't even play, plus they will have their 1st rounder this season. And their young core is all locked up for the future.



I've said it before, Ant is their long term option at PG. It's what Denver did with Jamal Murray, OKC did with SGA, and Miami with Herro. They came into the league as combo/SG's and transitioned into PGs as they grew. Ant is doing the same thing.

In the whole capital/relocation discussion, you seem to forget that multi-billionaire Glen Taylor will still retain 20% of ownership for the foreseeable future. That's another reason why they're not a threat to leave, and Mexico City as an option is laughable.
Click to expand...
Sorry. The numbers don't show Rudy to be significantly better than Kessler, especially when you look at the impact of his contract on the salary cap. Kessler blocks more shots and has a three point shot. Rudy is a better screener and averages one rebound per game more than Kessler. The wolves will owe Rudy approx $85M after this year. Utah will owe Kessler approx $8M after this year. You might wish that Rudy was "significantly better" than Kessler, but the numbers don't show it.

Terry Rozier is the starting pg in Miami. The wolves haven't indicated that Ant will be their starting pg next year. They have indicated that they would like to bring back Conley. If Ant is the starting pg, who plays 35 minutes/game at sg? You might wish that Ant was going to play 35 minutes a game at pg next year, but the wolves haven't given any indication that's the plan.

Miller has played 21 minutes this year. The wolves evidently don't agree with you that he's a first round talent.

You might think the NBA in Mexico City is crazy, but the league doesn't.

Relationship with Mexico City Game deepens after 3 decades %%page%% %%sep%% %%sitename%%

The question of potential expansion dominated NBA commissioner Adam Silver’s Mexico City Game 2023 media availability.
www.nba.com www.nba.com

I don't see the league picking Mexico City over Vegas and Seattle for expansion. I also don't see the league saying no if Mexico City goes after a team that's in play. If it's not Mexico City, there are half a dozen other markets who could try to lure the wolves.

Finally, I've never heard of a minority shareholder of a closely held partnership or company being in control of the asset, unless that minority shareholder is also the general partner. If the boys do come up with the money, Taylor will become a limited partner/minority shareholder and will have no say in the direction or location decisions of the franchise. (He already told a nice fib on that one when the purchase agreement was signed. His lie was exposed when one of his partners sued him.)
 

jamiche said:
Sorry. The numbers don't show Rudy to be significantly better than Kessler, especially when you look at the impact of his contract on the salary cap. Kessler blocks more shots and has a three point shot. Rudy is a better screener and averages one rebound per game more than Kessler. The wolves will owe Rudy approx $85M after this year. Utah will owe Kessler approx $8M after this year. You might wish that Rudy was "significantly better" than Kessler, but the numbers don't show it.

Terry Rozier is the starting pg in Miami. The wolves haven't indicated that Ant will be their starting pg next year. They have indicated that they would like to bring back Conley. If Ant is the starting pg, who plays 35 minutes/game at sg? You might wish that Ant was going to play 35 minutes a game at pg next year, but the wolves haven't given any indication that's the plan.

Miller has played 21 minutes this year. The wolves evidently don't agree with you that he's a first round talent.

You might think the NBA in Mexico City is crazy, but the league doesn't.

Relationship with Mexico City Game deepens after 3 decades %%page%% %%sep%% %%sitename%%

The question of potential expansion dominated NBA commissioner Adam Silver’s Mexico City Game 2023 media availability.
www.nba.com www.nba.com

I don't see the league picking Mexico City over Vegas and Seattle for expansion. I also don't see the league saying no if Mexico City goes after a team that's in play. If it's not Mexico City, there are half a dozen other markets who could try to lure the wolves.

Finally, I've never heard of a minority shareholder of a closely held partnership or company being in control of the asset, unless that minority shareholder is also the general partner. If the boys do come up with the money, Taylor will become a limited partner/minority shareholder and will have no say in the direction or location decisions of the franchise. (He already told a nice fib on that one when the purchase agreement was signed. His lie was exposed when one of his partners sued him.)
Click to expand...

You go back to box scores with Kessler. If you think Kessler is comparable to Rudy, I again question that you've even watched the Wolves this year.

Rozier has been on Miami for 2 weeks. He's similar to Conley here where he plays off guard a lot to Herro.

Mexico City isn't happening. The Wolves draw when they win. It would be stupid, and take a significant amount of money that you say they don't have to move the team to a smaller market that may not support the team.
 


NBA Western Conference Standings as of 2/11/24

Minnesota TimberwolvesTimberwolves
36-16
.692
First Place

LA ClippersClippers
35-16
.686
0.5 Games Back

Denver NuggetsNuggets
36-17
.679
0.5 Games Back

Oklahoma City ThunderThunder
35-17
.673
1.0 Games Back

Sacramento KingsKings
30-21
.588
5.5 Games Back

Phoenix SunsSuns
31-22
.585
5.5 Games Back

New Orleans PelicansPelicans
31-22
.585
5.5 Games Back

Dallas MavericksMavericks
30-23
.566
6.5 Games

Los Angeles LakersLakers
28-26
.519
9.0 Games Back

Golden State WarriorsWarriors
25-25
.500
10.0 Games Back
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You go back to box scores with Kessler. If you think Kessler is comparable to Rudy, I again question that you've even watched the Wolves this year.

Rozier has been on Miami for 2 weeks. He's similar to Conley here where he plays off guard a lot to Herro.

Mexico City isn't happening. The Wolves draw when they win. It would be stupid, and take a significant amount of money that you say they don't have to move the team to a smaller market that may not support the team.
Click to expand...
As long as you've brought up numbers, take a look for yourself. The two players are quite comparable per 36 minutes, per 100 possessions and by advanced stats. Nobody is knocking the year Rudy is having, but two things can be true. It was still a bad trade.

stathead.com

Walker Kessler (2023-2024) vs. Rudy Gobert (2023-2024): Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Walker Kessler (2023-2024) and Rudy Gobert (2023-2024) including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com
stathead.com stathead.com

First round picks, early, middle or late, are more valuable than ever. Especially because they are cheap contracts to wrap around the max and near max contracts on the roster.

There's a difference between being ball dominant and being a pg. Ant is a great scorer who turns the ball over at a high rate (1.5:1.0 TO/Ast ratio) and doesn't have a clue how to run an offense , esp late in a game. Conley is the pg, even when the ball isn't in his hands. Murray has an excellent Assist/TO ratio but even he isn't really the pg. The Denver offense runs through Jokic. I don't know much about Herro.

You can dismiss other markets all you want but these guys have no connection or loyalty to this market and it only costs $50M to buy out the lease. They will go where they can get the best deal. We can sure hope it's here, which really means a new taxpayer funded arena. If there's a new arena with better. revenue streams, more corporate sponsorships and a big relocation package elsewhere and we don't match it, there's nothing holding the team here.
 

According to the Pat Bev Pod:

Seasoned Forward & Offensive Threat Marcus Morris is leaning towards signing with the Minnesota Timberwolves- Per sources His veteran presence will provide a winning culture to any team looking for a playoff boost.
 


fan of Ray Williams said:
Really late one tonight.
Click to expand...

It is. It's also the 2nd game of the NBA TV doubleheader. It'll be the 36-16 Wolves against the 36-18 L.A. Clippers no less.

Minnesota Timberwolves

NAME, POSSTATUSEST. RETURN DATE
Jaden McDaniels
PF		GTDFeb 12

i
LA Clippers
No injured players
 


Nice win. 40-19 3rd period put them ahead.
Edit: in spite of 4-23 from behind the arc for the starters. Edwards 1-11
 
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37-16 Wolves beat the 35-17 Clippers 121-100, to stay in 1st place in the Western Conference

"They played better than we did. Outcoached us, outplayed us and everything,” Clippers coach Tyronn Lue said. “I thought just the physicality and attention to detail, they were better.”

""I think [Rudy] Gobert is the best defensive player in the world." Anthony Edwards

Edwards also mentioned that Rudy Gobert, in particular, had some strong words for the group at Halftime, but that helped motivate them for the third quarter.

"We get cussed out in here," Edwards said.

Was it in French or English?

"English," Edwards said. "We don't know French."

www.espn.com

Timberwolves 121-100 Clippers (Feb 12, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Minnesota Timberwolves vs. LA Clippers NBA game from February 12, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 

Wanted to keep an eye on Morris, but really only caught his play in the 1st half. Box score showing no turnovers, that’s good. Looked okay the little I watched him play. Fell asleep for a while right after that horrendous turnover by NAW at the end of the 2nd period and resulting 3 pointer by Harden. Woke up to a sizable lead in the 3rd.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Wanted to keep an eye on Morris, but really only caught his play in the 1st half. Box score showing no turnovers, that’s good. Looked okay the little I watched him play. Fell asleep for a while right after that horrendous turnover by NAW at the end of the 2nd period and resulting 3 pointer by Harden. Woke up to a sizable lead in the 3rd.
Click to expand...
Watched a little as I was having trouble sleeping, taped it, do I can enjoy some action today.

The announcers were enamored of McDaniels and he had a sweet block of Kwahi going for a dunk.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Watched a little as I was having trouble sleeping, taped it, do I can enjoy some action today.

The announcers were enamored of McDaniels and he had a sweet block of Kwahi going for a dunk.
Click to expand...
Leonard really did throw down a couple right at the end of the 1st period.
 

LA Times:

The Sports Report: Timberwolves are too much for the Clippers​


Of course, it wasn’t going to be easy against a Minnesota Timberwolves team that had the best record in the West and a half-game lead over the Clippers.

The Clippers vowed to be ready because so much was at stake and also because coach Tyronn Lue said one of their goals is to secure the best record in the NBA by season’s end.
But things didn’t work out for the Clippers, who couldn’t overcome the Timberwolves’ stingy defense in a 121-100 loss Monday at Crypto.com Arena.

As a result, the Clippers dropped to third in the West and are 1½-games behind Minnesota and a half-game behind Oklahoma City at 35-16.

“I mean, it’s a good test for us,” Lue said before the game. “I understand they’re playing great basketball and they’re a really good team. So, just up for the challenge. I mean, it’s not going to end our season one way or another. But we just get a chance to play against one of the elite teams in the West, the best team in the West and see where we stack up.”

The Timberwolves have proved their worth all season on the defensive end, holding teams to the lowest scoring totals (107.1 points per game) and lowest field-goal percentage (44.9%) in the NBA..

www.latimes.com

The Sports Report: Timberwolves are too much for the Clippers

The Clippers had an opportunity to move to the top of the Western Conference, but dropped to third after losing to Minnesota.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
 
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