All Things 2022 Minnesota Twins In-Season Thread

Ope3

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Nearly every move they've made over the past year is for next season as well. That's why they won't blow anything up, nor should they. I believe it was a surprise to them they even competed this much this season, due to expecting both Cleveland and the White Sox to be much better than what they were.

Health is always a giant concern, but as long as they can get their younger guys healthy again, this team will be better next season. They will also have a ton of money to spend as their payroll will only be ~60 million if Correa opts out. That gives them a lot of room to go get a couple of good FAs to fill out their lineup and bullpen.
I don't think the Twins expected Cleveland to be very good. I don't even think the Guardian front office thought they would be good this year. The White Sox were supposed to be the clear front runner with Detroit as a challenger.

When the Correa move happened, I thought it was done for the Twins to have a puncher's chance at the 3rd Wild Card.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I don't think the Twins expected Cleveland to be very good. I don't even think the Guardian front office thought they would be good this year. The White Sox were supposed to be the clear front runner with Detroit as a challenger.

When the Correa move happened, I thought it was done for the Twins to have a puncher's chance at the 3rd Wild Card.

Detroit? Cleveland has always had the best young pitching staff in the division, and that will always make you a competitor.
 

forever a gopher

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The Pohlads typically don't blow things up. This year will be the exception. Falvey and Levine were hired five years ago to modernize the entire organization with an emphasis on pitching. The Twins farm system is ranked in the bottom third by multiple sites and in the bottom half by every site that I checked. Falvine hasn't produced a home grown alpha starter. Not even close. Duran looks like their only real success. The initial winning was done under Molitor w/ mostly Ryan's players. Rocco is Falvine's guy. If they go, he goes. His staff, too.

I can't see a scenario where Correa stays. Kepler and Sano are obviously gone. The core players next year will be Buxton, Arraez, Polanco, Miranda, Ryan, Maeda, Duran and Lewis (after June).
I've been beating this drum, but look at the drafting history of Falvine. They've used pretty much all their top 3 picks on position players. Then, their international signings in 2021 had 2 of 9 as pitchers, and in 2022 had 1 of 7 as a pitcher. They've loaded up on position players like we have some epic pitching talent already in the organization. With the way Rocco/Falvine handles this staff, no top pitcher would sign here (unless we grossly overpay). So we're not drafting/signing amateur pitchers, and we haven't been able to sign top pitchers via free agency. The majority of their pitching has come via trade or bargain FA signings. To their credit, they've gotten some decent pitchers via trade (looking at you, Ryan, Gray, and Maeda). Of course, to get Gray, they traded the only top pitching prospect they've ever drafted in the Falvine era.
 

Ope3

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Detroit? Cleveland has always had the best young pitching staff in the division, and that will always make you a competitor.
I think with the staff Cleveland had they knew they would be ok, but made virtual zero improvement over the offseason or even at the trade deadline that would indicate they were serious competitors.

Their everyday line-up is not good.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Pagan had plenty of help. Duffy, Kepler, Sano, Archer...
His failings against Cleveland is why they are out of the playoffs. They did ok against every other team they played. Him blowing leads against Cleveland in winnable games is on him.
 


GopherWeatherGuy

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I think with the staff Cleveland had they knew they would be ok, but made virtual zero improvement over the offseason or even at the trade deadline that would indicate they were serious competitors.

Their everyday line-up is not good.

They're 10th in baseball in hitting this year. Ramírez is one of the best hitters in baseball. Rosario has been good for a few years now, and they've had young guys like Gimenez and Kwan step up in a big way this season.

The Twins could easily get a bump from their lineup next season if their young guys could just stay healthy.
 

Ope3

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His failings against Cleveland is why they are out of the playoffs. They did ok against every other team they played. Him blowing leads against Cleveland in winnable games is on him.
Again he had help. Cotton & Jax had Blown Saves on June 22 vs Cleveland. Cotton another on June 29, Tyler Thornburg had one on June 30 and Jax another on Sept 16 all against Cleveland.

Group bullpen failures, not just Pagan.

Even if they bullpen had been addressed earlier, they would still be in a dogfight with Cleveland. The Twins hitting is atrocious, pretty questionable they would have made it to the finish line in 1st.

Just my opinion.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Stop pitching to Amed Rosario. Have we not learned our lesson yet.

That was also a tough double play in the top of the innings.
 

ecoperson

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Haven't been able to check in on the game today until now. What happened to Gray? 2 innings pitched... obviously gave up 4 runs but he couldn't have pulled a couple more innings? Seems like he has a better chance than the bullpen.
 



2nd Degree Gopher

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Haven't been able to check in on the game today until now. What happened to Gray? 2 innings pitched... obviously gave up 4 runs but he couldn't have pulled a couple more innings? Seems like he has a better chance than the bullpen.
Left after two with right hamstring tightness, went straight to the clubhouse. With the Twins out of realistic contention, I'd guess his season is over.
 

Ope3

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His failings against Cleveland is why they are out of the playoffs. They did ok against every other team they played. Him blowing leads against Cleveland in winnable games is on him.
Again he had help. Cotton & Jax had Blown Saves on June 22 vs Cleveland. Cotton another on June 29, Tyler Thornburg had one on June 30 and Jax another on Sept 16 all against Cleveland.

Group bullpen failures, not just Pagan.

Even if they bullpen had been addressed earlier, they would still be in a dogfight with Cleveland. The Twins hitting is atrocious, pretty questionable they would have made it to the finish line in 1st.

Just my opinion.
I will also add as a postscript, the Twins just finished a stretch where they lost 7 of 8 games to the Guards in 11 days.

He had virtually no impact on the futility, one way or another. Those games counted just as much as the ones in June.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Who the hell on the twins wrecked him?

Time to sharpen the scalpels and get anyone hurt under the knife to make sure they are good to go for 2023. This mash unit can not happen again.
 

From the Parkinglot

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I will also add as a postscript, the Twins just finished a stretch where they lost 7 of 8 games to the Guards in 11 days.

He had virtually no impact on the futility, one way or another. Those games counted just as much as the ones in June.
Winning in June gives you more room to breathe in a September. He did give up a run in game 2 of the double header meaning if he had not pitched twins would have won in 9 innings.

I’m being somewhat sarcastic, but he sucks and they have kept him around all year because he “has good stuff”. That’s all well and good but he walks to many people and also gives up too many homers. I just don’t wanna see him in 2023, but I know they will trot him out again next year.
 




Breakin' The Plane

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Good luck in the playoffs, Cleveland. I admire how your organization develops pitching, hits the ball to the opposite field and steals bases, all while spending slightly more than the Pittsburgh Pirates.
 

Ope3

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Winning in June gives you more room to breathe in a September. He did give up a run in game 2 of the double header meaning if he had not pitched twins would have won in 9 innings.

I’m being somewhat sarcastic, but he sucks and they have kept him around all year because he “has good stuff”. That’s all well and good but he walks to many people and also gives up too many homers. I just don’t wanna see him in 2023, but I know they will trot him out again next year.
I hope we don't see Pagan in 2023 (for the Twins). 2 years of dreadful performances is not exactly a small sample size.

Just sayin', plenty of blame to go around for the ultimate 2022 result.
 

short ornery norwegian

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what happens in the off-season depends on a few factors, all of which are hard for a fan to gauge:

How much does Jim Pohlad know, or care, about what is happening with the team?

Will the front office chalk off the year as "bad luck" due to injuries, or do they accept some of the responsibility for the state of the roster?

Will the organization do anything to discuss the health and injury issues - or just keep doing the same thing and hoping for better results?

Is there a surgical "fix" for Buxton, or is this something we have to live with every year?

Does anyone connected with the team monitor social media, and understand just how bad the Twins' public image is becoming?

Can Heironymus Merkin Ever Forget Mercy Humppe and Find True Happiness?
 

From the Parkinglot

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I hope we don't see Pagan in 2023 (for the Twins). 2 years of dreadful performances is not exactly a small sample size.

Just sayin', plenty of blame to go around for the ultimate 2022 result.
He will be back otherwise they would have let him go. It will cost them $4million or so as he is in the final year or arbitration.
 


From the Parkinglot

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I mean they pitched to him with a base open and the winning run on third base in the 15th inning. He was facing a guy they called that day for the game cause someone had Covid. They also pitched to him in the 7th inning of the doh e header with two outs and a guy on second against Pagan. All he did was single to drive in the game tying run.

Those were very poor managerial decisions.
 

From the Parkinglot

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For the fourth time in six years with a Derek Falvey-led front office, the Twins have a below-average pitching staff, ranking 10th out of 15 teams in ERA after finishing 14th in 2021. That might be acceptable for a young staff on the rise, but the Twins have gotten just 13 starts from 25-and-under pitchers all season and rank as the league’s fifth-oldest staff overall.
 

jamiche

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what happens in the off-season depends on a few factors, all of which are hard for a fan to gauge:

How much does Jim Pohlad know, or care, about what is happening with the team?

Will the front office chalk off the year as "bad luck" due to injuries, or do they accept some of the responsibility for the state of the roster?

Will the organization do anything to discuss the health and injury issues - or just keep doing the same thing and hoping for better results?

Is there a surgical "fix" for Buxton, or is this something we have to live with every year?

Does anyone connected with the team monitor social media, and understand just how bad the Twins' public image is becoming?

Can Heironymus Merkin Ever Forget Mercy Humppe and Find True Happiness?
The Pohlads care about $2B assets. The value of their $2B asset correlates to the front office and the roster, at least somewhat. The front office and the roster have underperformed. The Pohlads have been pretty patient with this asset, mostly because it was purchased for $27M in 1984. However, they don't like being embarassed and they felt like tall dogs with their cronies when they did a big boy thing by signing Correa. I just hope when they clean house they don't go all the way to Pittsburgh.
 


GophersInIowa

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I've been beating this drum, but look at the drafting history of Falvine. They've used pretty much all their top 3 picks on position players. Then, their international signings in 2021 had 2 of 9 as pitchers, and in 2022 had 1 of 7 as a pitcher. They've loaded up on position players like we have some epic pitching talent already in the organization. With the way Rocco/Falvine handles this staff, no top pitcher would sign here (unless we grossly overpay). So we're not drafting/signing amateur pitchers, and we haven't been able to sign top pitchers via free agency. The majority of their pitching has come via trade or bargain FA signings. To their credit, they've gotten some decent pitchers via trade (looking at you, Ryan, Gray, and Maeda). Of course, to get Gray, they traded the only top pitching prospect they've ever drafted in the Falvine era.
Pitchers have a much greater chance of being a bust. Position players are safer. They’ve also taken guys early on that they were able to sign below slot so they could sign guys later that they normally wouldn’t. 2017 is a good example. They were able to sign Enlow, a 3rd rounder, because they saved money on their first 3 picks. Enlow was considered a 1st or 2nd round talent.

They’re drafting a lot of pitchers, they just aren’t developing them. It’s been the problem for a long time.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Pitchers have a much greater chance of being a bust. Position players are safer. They’ve also taken guys early on that they were able to sign below slot so they could sign guys later that they normally wouldn’t. 2017 is a good example. They were able to sign Enlow, a 3rd rounder, because they saved money on their first 3 picks. Enlow was considered a 1st or 2nd round talent.

They’re drafting a lot of pitchers, they just aren’t developing them. It’s been the problem for a long time.

and I think you have to ask questions about the overall pitching philosophy of the franchise.

Lopez was great in Baltimore, throwing 97-mph sinkers. He comes to the Twins, starts nibbling and throwing a lot of off-speed and change-ups.

same thing with Duran. the guy can throw freakin' 103-mph, and he's out there tossing up breaking balls.

someone is telling these guys to throw breaking balls. whatever happened to bringing the heat and challenging hitters?

Reusse keeps saying that this is the real reason Wes Johnson left the team in mid-season - because he got tired of meddling from the front office. there is some guy who serves as 'pitching coordinator' or some title like that, and he is supposedly the genius that wants everyone to throw sliders instead of the fast ball.
 

From the Parkinglot

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and I think you have to ask questions about the overall pitching philosophy of the franchise.

Lopez was great in Baltimore, throwing 97-mph sinkers. He comes to the Twins, starts nibbling and throwing a lot of off-speed and change-ups.

same thing with Duran. the guy can throw freakin' 103-mph, and he's out there tossing up breaking balls.

someone is telling these guys to throw breaking balls. whatever happened to bringing the heat and challenging hitters?

Reusse keeps saying that this is the real reason Wes Johnson left the team in mid-season - because he got tired of meddling from the front office. there is some guy who serves as 'pitching coordinator' or some title like that, and he is supposedly the genius that wants everyone to throw sliders instead of the fast ball.

This needs to be explained.

Yes I agree the guys throw 100 and they are out there trying to fool people with slider and breaking balls. No wonder have have so many pitchers with arm issues.
 

howeda7

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This needs to be explained.

Yes I agree the guys throw 100 and they are out there trying to fool people with slider and breaking balls. No wonder have have so many pitchers with arm issues.
They're doing what they're told by Falvey and company.
 

forever a gopher

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This needs to be explained.

Yes I agree the guys throw 100 and they are out there trying to fool people with slider and breaking balls. No wonder have have so many pitchers with arm issues.
I don't know where this rando is getting his stats, but according to baseball reference, his ERA in Baltimore in '22 was 1.68, not 0.68. The point still stands that he has been worse here, but not nearly as bad as called out by this unverified rando dude. Additionally, he has a career ERA of 5.44. I understand that he was a starter before, and he has been better as a reliever, but still, I don't think he turned into Mariano Rivera overnight. It was likely he was going to revert at least a little to the mean at some point.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lopezjo02.shtml
 

forever a gopher

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Pitchers have a much greater chance of being a bust. Position players are safer. They’ve also taken guys early on that they were able to sign below slot so they could sign guys later that they normally wouldn’t. 2017 is a good example. They were able to sign Enlow, a 3rd rounder, because they saved money on their first 3 picks. Enlow was considered a 1st or 2nd round talent.

They’re drafting a lot of pitchers, they just aren’t developing them. It’s been the problem for a long time.
Ugg..."taking below slot value". That's something organizations like the Pirates and Royals do. To me, that's such a defeatist attitude. Welp, let's not go get the best talent we can, because we don't want to sign them. Yes, I understand I'm being a bit hyperbolic, and what you lined out is a strategy to get more guys. But they need high-end talent. Just draft the best guy you can and work it out.
 





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