All Things 2022 Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread

kg21

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Pretty solid 3pt shooter

He can fill the Beasley role somewhat.

Beasley really does nothing but hit threes. That's really all this guy can do.

Beasley is a career 39%, three point shooter, and this guy is a career 41% shooter from three. Beasley is a bit taller.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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Wolves are going to get beat so badly by small ball lineups during crunch time that gobert will be forced to the bench
 

kg21

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Wolves are going to get beat so badly by small ball lineups during crunch time that gobert will be forced to the bench
They are going to be up by so much, all they will need to do is play defense.
 

short ornery norwegian

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But they will still have the flexibility to go "small" if needed.

if this group stays healthy, that is one of the plusses - they can go big or go small. Wolves have not been able to do that for years, because they haven't had the shot-blocker and rebounder in the middle.

now, they have a new option.

let's see Ja Morant try to drive the middle of the lane with Gobert waiting for him. Ja might not be quite so brave if he knows a big dude is waiting to greet him. That changes the equation on defense.
 

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The wolves have a two year window to win it all. After that, they are toast for a decade. In season three they will owe old Rudy, aging KAT and young Ant approx $130M/year. (That doesn't include the big contract McDaniel will be eligible to sign.) There won't be much of a trade market for old Rudy and aging KAT with bad wrists and a lot of minutes on his legs. They are going to have to trade Ant. IMO, Rudy's arrival means Ant eventually has to go.
 


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The wolves have a two year window to win it all. After that, they are toast for a decade. In season three they will owe old Rudy, aging KAT and young Ant approx $130M/year. (That doesn't include the big contract McDaniel will be eligible to sign.) There won't be much of a trade market for old Rudy and aging KAT with bad wrists and a lot of minutes on his legs. They are going to have to trade Ant. IMO, Rudy's arrival means Ant eventually has to go.
Oh stop it.

The NBA tv contract is coming up for bid, and they might doube or triple their current agreement. Revenue and the salary cap will sky rocket.
 

kg21

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The wolves have a two year window to win it all. After that, they are toast for a decade. In season three they will owe old Rudy, aging KAT and young Ant approx $130M/year. (That doesn't include the big contract McDaniel will be eligible to sign.) There won't be much of a trade market for old Rudy and aging KAT with bad wrists and a lot of minutes on his legs. They are going to have to trade Ant. IMO, Rudy's arrival means Ant eventually has to go.
Rudy's contract is up in 2025, when KAT will be 29.

I think you might have overreacted a little.
 

jamiche

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Rudy's contract is up in 2025, when KAT will be 29.

I think you might have overreacted a little.
Rudy has a player option for 25-26 at a little under $47M.

The real salary cap in the NBA is the luxury tax threshold. This year it will be about $150M. RealGM projects that it will be about $169M in the 24-25 season. In 24-25 Ant (1st year of max deal), Rudy and KAT will be owed approx $130M. If McDaniels blows up, he could make up to $35M, too. If the luxury tax is even remotely close to $169M, somebody is going to have to go. I think the market will be considerably less robust for Gobert and KAT, at that point in their careers, than it will be for Ant entering his fifth year in the league.

That's why I said the arrival of Gobert is going to mean the eventual departure of Ant. The arithmetic isn't favorable.

Until yesterday they were building a well rounded, sustainable, deep team with an expanding window. I think Kessler would have been able to do 60% of Gobert at less than 10% of the cost. I guess all of that must have been boring to Lore and ARod.
 

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Rudy has a player option for 25-26 at a little under $47M.

The real salary cap in the NBA is the luxury tax threshold. This year it will be about $150M. RealGM projects that it will be about $169M in the 24-25 season. In 24-25 Ant (1st year of max deal), Rudy and KAT will be owed approx $130M. If McDaniels blows up, he could make up to $35M, too. If the luxury tax is even remotely close to $169M, somebody is going to have to go. I think the market will be considerably less robust for Gobert and KAT, at that point in their careers, than it will be for Ant entering his fifth year in the league.

That's why I said the arrival of Gobert is going to mean the eventual departure of Ant. The arithmetic isn't favorable.

Until yesterday they were building a well rounded, sustainable, deep team with an expanding window. I think Kessler would have been able to do 60% of Gobert at less than 10% of the cost. I guess all of that must have been boring to Lore and ARod.
Dumb.

The CBA expires in two years, and both have an early opt out.

The new tv agreement will change the landscape too.

The new cap will be much higher.
 



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Rudy has a player option for 25-26 at a little under $47M.

The real salary cap in the NBA is the luxury tax threshold. This year it will be about $150M. RealGM projects that it will be about $169M in the 24-25 season. In 24-25 Ant (1st year of max deal), Rudy and KAT will be owed approx $130M. If McDaniels blows up, he could make up to $35M, too. If the luxury tax is even remotely close to $169M, somebody is going to have to go. I think the market will be considerably less robust for Gobert and KAT, at that point in their careers, than it will be for Ant entering his fifth year in the league.

That's why I said the arrival of Gobert is going to mean the eventual departure of Ant. The arithmetic isn't favorable.

Until yesterday they were building a well rounded, sustainable, deep team with an expanding window. I think Kessler would have been able to do 60% of Gobert at less than 10% of the cost. I guess all of that must have been boring to Lore and ARod.
Ant is priority #1 for the Wolves. They will 100% find a way to keep him even if it means saying goodbye to Towns. Unless of course Ant wants out of here.

I still don't like the Gobert contract. I think he is massively overpaid and the risk of the twin towers not working is big.

I only will miss PatBev out of all of the players leaving. Still think anything more than 2 picks is paying too much.

With all of that written.... I'm excited to see what will happen and just put money down to continue my tickets.
 

short ornery norwegian

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this is a 'swing for the fences' move.

Connelly is betting that the Wolves can make a real run at an NBA title within the next 4-5 years.

after that, who knows?

as we see every off-season, you can turn over a roster in a hurry.

this does put more pressure on the front office to hit on their remaining draft picks.

But, if the Wolves are among the top 4 seeds in the West, they're picking at the bottom of the 1st round anyway.

insidious thought - secret game plan is to win an NBA title.......then A-Rod and Lore hold a press conference to demand public funding for a new arena...........
 

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this is a 'swing for the fences' move.

Connelly is betting that the Wolves can make a real run at an NBA title within the next 4-5 years.

after that, who knows?

as we see every off-season, you can turn over a roster in a hurry.

this does put more pressure on the front office to hit on their remaining draft picks.

But, if the Wolves are among the top 4 seeds in the West, they're picking at the bottom of the 1st round anyway.

insidious thought - secret game plan is to win an NBA title.......then A-Rod and Lore hold a press conference to demand public funding for a new arena...........
If the Wolves win a championship, I will grab my shovel and help myself.
 

jamiche

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Ant is priority #1 for the Wolves. They will 100% find a way to keep him even if it means saying goodbye to Towns. Unless of course Ant wants out of here.

I still don't like the Gobert contract. I think he is massively overpaid and the risk of the twin towers not working is big.

I only will miss PatBev out of all of the players leaving. Still think anything more than 2 picks is paying too much.

With all of that written.... I'm excited to see what will happen and just put money down to continue my tickets.
Ant is definitely the priority. The problem is that he will fetch more in return three years from now than Towns will. He will be younger, ascendant and he'll have a less expensive contract.

I know it's a cliche, but two things can be true. I think they actually do have a shot at a championship. However, the window is about two years, IMO. I also think the inevitable consequence of this mortgage of the future is, well, a bleak future.

So, the existential question for us wolves fans is would you trade a championship, or at least an appearance in the finals, for another decade of wandering in the NBA hinterlands?
 



jamiche

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Dumb.

The CBA expires in two years, and both have an early opt out.

The new tv agreement will change the landscape too.

The new cap will be much higher.
So let's push the luxury tax up 50% in three years to $225M. I think that's unprecedented, but this is a message board. It's going to be hard to build a team around those four guys without cheap draft contracts. Somebody will have to go.
 

jamiche

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this is a 'swing for the fences' move.

Connelly is betting that the Wolves can make a real run at an NBA title within the next 4-5 years.

after that, who knows?

as we see every off-season, you can turn over a roster in a hurry.

this does put more pressure on the front office to hit on their remaining draft picks.

But, if the Wolves are among the top 4 seeds in the West, they're picking at the bottom of the 1st round anyway.

insidious thought - secret game plan is to win an NBA title.......then A-Rod and Lore hold a press conference to demand public funding for a new arena...........
The public funding demand will happen whether they win a championship or not.
 

Iceland12

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Maybe we should look at the trade as sending those players and draft picks for Gobert, Anderson and Forbes. Apparently Connelly and the Wolves braintrust did.

Yeah but..;)

They looked around at the rest of the Western Conference and knew they were not good enough. Last season’s team was young and fun and exciting and the revival of Minnesota as a basketball market was rewarding. But the overwhelming feeling internally was that if they didn’t make some significant maneuvers, a team that had squeezed every ounce of success possible out of its roster was destined to hit a wall in a conference that is only getting tougher and deeper.

There they sat with a budding star in Anthony Edwards, a rejuvenated franchise player in Karl-Anthony Towns and a head coach in Chris Finch who has command of the room and the security of a long-term deal. So they could sit back and let Ant and Jaden McDaniels develop gradually, watch KAT continue to mature as a leader and hope that D’Angelo Russell played inspired ball as he entered a contract year. They could cross their fingers that Patrick Beverley stayed healthy, Malik Beasley kept his head on straight and rookies Walker Kessler and Wendell Moore Jr. were ahead of the development curve. They could hold the fort for another season, see how all of that panned out, and if it didn’t work, head into the summer of 2023 with max salary cap space and make their move then. That was the safe move..

They knew all the concerns. Yes, Gobert is due $170 million over the next four seasons. Yes, the supersized frontcourt pairing with Towns is unconventional in the age of the wing scorer. Yes, the Jazz’s sputtering in the playoffs has led to doubts about Gobert’s ability to control games in the postseason the way he does in the regular season.

As Connelly and the Timberwolves decision-makers, including holdovers Sachin Gupta, Manny Rohan and Finch and newcomers Matt Lloyd and Dell Demps, looked at the rest of the league, they had difficulty identifying a player that could be had for the package they were prepared to offer that covered up so many of their team’s weaknesses. They tried to picture what that series with Memphis would have looked like with Gobert there to keep Morant out of the paint and dwarf Clarke on the boards. They thought about how Russell’s life would have been so much easier with Gobert setting screens for him and offering a lob threat on the pick-and-roll while Russell sized up the drop coverage that he is so comfortable attacking. They thought about Edwards gambling even more on defense knowing that Gobert had his back if he got beat.

And they also thought about how much they could help Gobert. With McDaniels and Edwards, who showed significant improvement as a defender as his second season progressed, the Wolves have two perimeter players who won’t be turnstiles and force Gobert to guard the entire court all by himself, as happened in Utah last season. Towns’ shooting will complement Gobert’s interior presence, and the sheer wing span of a starting five that doesn’t have a player under 6 foot 4 could make a Gobert-anchored group much more sustainable than the smoke-and-mirrors scrambling the Wolves parlayed into a surprising 13th-ranked defensive rating last season.

Given all that, and the third-year leap they anticipate from Edwards, the stability they hope will bring even more out of Towns and the belief that it would be hard to find another star player who is open to Minnesota the way Gobert was — sources told The Athletic that Gobert expressed excitement about the opportunity of playing with the Timberwolves and that Towns, in particular, was supportive of the move — that one question just kept gnawing at the group while they labored over the decision.

What are we waiting for?..

The enormity of the price tag cannot be overstated.

  • Beverley was invaluable last season in changing the culture in Minnesota. But he was on a one-year deal and a move to the bench was likely coming next season.
  • Beasley is one of the league’s best volume 3-point shooters. But he has a history of off-the-court issues and the Wolves wanted to create room for Jaylen Nowell.
  • Vanderbilt was the engine of the team with nonstop hustle and an inspiring return from foot issues in college. But retaining him in a deal for Gobert would have reduced the offensively-challenged Vanderbilt to no more than a bit role in the frontcourt rotation.
  • Kessler was the 22nd overall pick in the draft last month and a player the Wolves are very high on. But the Jazz needed another young player to justify giving up a Hall of Fame-level center.
  • Bolmaro was a first-round pick in 2020 but had no path to playing time with the Timberwolves.
  • The draft pick compensation is along the lines of what superstars Anthony Davis and Paul George fetched. But the Wolves chose to up the ante there rather than part with the up-and-coming youngster McDaniels.
Sources told both Jazz writer Tony Jones and me that Danny Ainge pushed hard to include McDaniels. Earlier versions of Utah’s ask included the four first-rounders, McDaniels, multiple pick swaps and some second-round picks as well. The Timberwolves held firm in refusing to include McDaniels, a versatile defender who blossomed under the glare of the playoff spotlight against Memphis and is entering his third season in the league

 

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A few hours after the opening bell, the Timberwolves agreed to terms with Grizzlies free-agent forward Kyle Anderson on a two-year deal worth $18 million, sources told The Athletic. The day ended with Karl-Anthony Towns agreeing to terms on a four-year, supermax extension worth more than $220 million, agent Jess Holtz from CAA Sports said..

He is highly intelligent with great instincts, a nose for the ball on the glass and a winning pedigree from his time with the San Antonio Spurs and Grizzlies. Coach Chris Finch can use him in myriad ways, but his biggest impact likely comes with playmaking and defensive versatility.

The guy they call “Slo-Mo” won’t be challenging Anthony Edwards in any post-practice dunk contests, but he can grab the ball off the rim and bring it up the floor as a secondary ballhandler, break down the defense and pass it to open cutters and shooters and get his own shot in the midrange. One thing the young Wolves were in short supply of last year were smart decision-makers, especially in crunch time. Anderson brings the poise and savvy that can settle a group down throughout a game..


 

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With Malik Beasley and Patrick Beverley out the door in the Rudy Gobert trade, the Minnesota Timberwolves needed to add some backcourt depth.

So decision-maker Tim Connelly went with someone he trusts and signed Bryn Forbes to a one-year deal, reports The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski..

Forbes finished last season with the Denver Nuggets, not-so-coincidentally where Connelly had been GM. This deal is for the veteran minimum.

Forbes averaged 8.6 points a game with the Nuggets shooting 41% from 3, both numbers close to his career averages. The Timberwolves have added a solid rotation guard and one who will help space the floor on a team that needs that skill

 


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He likes us, he really likes us!

Rudy Gobert calls joining Timberwolves 'most exciting situation' for his career​


A few days before the Timberwolves and Jazz agreed to send Rudy Gobert to Minnesota for a cache of players and draft picks, Gobert told his agent, Bouna Ndiaye, that he wanted a little time to think over the move.

"I told him I needed one or two days to think about it," Gobert said. "After one day, I told him it was probably the best, most exciting situation in terms of basketball for me."

A day later, Gobert said, the trade was done, and on Wednesday, the 7-1 center was in Minnesota, posing for all the photographs and shaking all the hands he could at Target Center.

The trade represents a massive shift for both Gobert and the Wolves organization. Out the door went some of the players who helped turn the Wolves into a playoff team last season — along with four future first-round picks and another pick swap.

Gobert now joins only the second team he has ever played for in his 10-year career.

"So it's just a very unique core of young guys and a really good coach [Chris Finch] that complained about my screens all the time," Gobert said to laughter. "So now we're on the same side. I'm excited."


Howl Wolves!!
 

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Chip: Timberwolves coach Chris Finch goes mad scientist talking about Rudy Gobert, Karl-Anthony Towns together

The modern NBA game is populated with lineups filled with guards and wings. The Wolves boarded a train headed in the opposite direction. They are banking on the viability of playing not only one big man, but two of them together.

The Twin Cities has now become the Twin Centers with the arrival of Gobert to play alongside Karl-Anthony Towns in a hoops gamble that will either be proven genius or an expensive misstep.

"We don't think it's an awkward fit at all," Finch said. "We see from a basketball perspective no reason at all why it won't work."


Howl Wolves!!
 

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Winner: Minnesota Timberwolves

The Wolves gave up enough capital to choke a hippo, but they got Rudy Gobert. After signing Karl-Anthony Towns to a four-year, $224 million extension that keeps him in Minnesota for the next six years, it's twin-tower time in Minnesota, which sent back to Utah Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Walker Kessler, Leandro Bolmaro, Jarred Vanderbilt and multiple first-round picks: unprotected first-rounders in 2023, 2025, and 2027, and a top-five protected pick in 2029.

Gobert is a one-man defense, and notions that he loses defensive viability in the playoffs have been greatly exaggerated. Given the Wolves' ability to score the ball with Towns, Anthony Edwards and D'Angelo Russell, this suddenly looks like a really good team. It will have to be to justify this steep of a price, but it's worth the risk. It's been ages since the Wolves were actually a team to take this seriously, and I don't subscribe to the theory that teams have to contend for a championship to warrant these kinds of gambles.

Indeed, the Wolves aren't going to win the title next year. It's probably a good bet that they won't win one during the Gobert era, however long that lasts. You know why? Because only one team wins it all. That doesn't mean the other 29 did it wrong. For the Wolves, this is a major jolt of franchise energy, building on the momentum they've already created with the drafting of Anthony Edwards and last year's playoff appearance. Gobert almost locks in Minnesota as a 50-win team, and potentially closer to 55. Towns could still be traded.(?!) Same for Russell. Minnesota raised its floor and ensured it won't be one of those feel-good stories to fall back into the wasteland the next season.

That's what happened to Atlanta after it's surprise run to the 2021 conference finals. It decided not to build on that momentum, and fell flat. So the Hawks got busy this summer, trading for Dejounte Murray. Just like the Wolves for Gobert, the Hawks gave up a ton for Murray, and they're likely not going to win it all. But they've raised their floor. Reestablished the franchise energy. And they might not be done. John Collins and/Clint Capela could be moved. There's no way not to be excited about the Hawks could be with Young and Murray, just as there's no way not to be excited about the Wolves heading into next season with Towns, Gobert and Edwards, and when was the last time you could honestly say the Wolves were a legit team to watch?


 

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Winner: Minnesota Timberwolves

The Wolves gave up enough capital to choke a hippo, but they got Rudy Gobert. After signing Karl-Anthony Towns to a four-year, $224 million extension that keeps him in Minnesota for the next six years, it's twin-tower time in Minnesota, which sent back to Utah Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Walker Kessler, Leandro Bolmaro, Jarred Vanderbilt and multiple first-round picks: unprotected first-rounders in 2023, 2025, and 2027, and a top-five protected pick in 2029.

Gobert is a one-man defense, and notions that he loses defensive viability in the playoffs have been greatly exaggerated. Given the Wolves' ability to score the ball with Towns, Anthony Edwards and D'Angelo Russell, this suddenly looks like a really good team. It will have to be to justify this steep of a price, but it's worth the risk. It's been ages since the Wolves were actually a team to take this seriously, and I don't subscribe to the theory that teams have to contend for a championship to warrant these kinds of gambles.

Indeed, the Wolves aren't going to win the title next year. It's probably a good bet that they won't win one during the Gobert era, however long that lasts. You know why? Because only one team wins it all. That doesn't mean the other 29 did it wrong. For the Wolves, this is a major jolt of franchise energy, building on the momentum they've already created with the drafting of Anthony Edwards and last year's playoff appearance. Gobert almost locks in Minnesota as a 50-win team, and potentially closer to 55. Towns could still be traded.(?!) Same for Russell. Minnesota raised its floor and ensured it won't be one of those feel-good stories to fall back into the wasteland the next season.

That's what happened to Atlanta after it's surprise run to the 2021 conference finals. It decided not to build on that momentum, and fell flat. So the Hawks got busy this summer, trading for Dejounte Murray. Just like the Wolves for Gobert, the Hawks gave up a ton for Murray, and they're likely not going to win it all. But they've raised their floor. Reestablished the franchise energy. And they might not be done. John Collins and/Clint Capela could be moved. There's no way not to be excited about the Hawks could be with Young and Murray, just as there's no way not to be excited about the Wolves heading into next season with Towns, Gobert and Edwards, and when was the last time you could honestly say the Wolves were a legit team to watch?



This is a really good analysis of the situation. Love that he said just because you don't win it all doesn't mean you did it wrong (I still hope we win it all) and how this raises the floor.

Howl Wolves!!
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Winner: Minnesota Timberwolves

The Wolves gave up enough capital to choke a hippo, but they got Rudy Gobert. After signing Karl-Anthony Towns to a four-year, $224 million extension that keeps him in Minnesota for the next six years, it's twin-tower time in Minnesota, which sent back to Utah Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Walker Kessler, Leandro Bolmaro, Jarred Vanderbilt and multiple first-round picks: unprotected first-rounders in 2023, 2025, and 2027, and a top-five protected pick in 2029.

Gobert is a one-man defense, and notions that he loses defensive viability in the playoffs have been greatly exaggerated. Given the Wolves' ability to score the ball with Towns, Anthony Edwards and D'Angelo Russell, this suddenly looks like a really good team. It will have to be to justify this steep of a price, but it's worth the risk. It's been ages since the Wolves were actually a team to take this seriously, and I don't subscribe to the theory that teams have to contend for a championship to warrant these kinds of gambles.

Indeed, the Wolves aren't going to win the title next year. It's probably a good bet that they won't win one during the Gobert era, however long that lasts. You know why? Because only one team wins it all. That doesn't mean the other 29 did it wrong. For the Wolves, this is a major jolt of franchise energy, building on the momentum they've already created with the drafting of Anthony Edwards and last year's playoff appearance. Gobert almost locks in Minnesota as a 50-win team, and potentially closer to 55. Towns could still be traded.(?!) Same for Russell. Minnesota raised its floor and ensured it won't be one of those feel-good stories to fall back into the wasteland the next season.

That's what happened to Atlanta after it's surprise run to the 2021 conference finals. It decided not to build on that momentum, and fell flat. So the Hawks got busy this summer, trading for Dejounte Murray. Just like the Wolves for Gobert, the Hawks gave up a ton for Murray, and they're likely not going to win it all. But they've raised their floor. Reestablished the franchise energy. And they might not be done. John Collins and/Clint Capela could be moved. There's no way not to be excited about the Hawks could be with Young and Murray, just as there's no way not to be excited about the Wolves heading into next season with Towns, Gobert and Edwards, and when was the last time you could honestly say the Wolves were a legit team to watch?



This is a good perspective and why I like the Gobert trade. The Wolves now have one of the best starting lineups in the NBA, even if they do nothing the rest of the offseason.

I still prefer playing more small ball than having 'twin towers', but Towns has always been a stretch 4 who has been forced to play center. Gobert is the best defensive center in the league, and now covers all of the deficiencies Towns has at an elite level.

I don't buy the 'mortgaging the future' negativity. If they're going to win with Towns, the time is now. Nothing they did will prevent them from signing Ant long term, and they know he is the long term future. I think too many people view the draft picks like NFL 1st round draft picks. Most, if not all of these picks will not be in the lottery. Non-lottery NBA 1st round draft picks are more like 4th-5th round NFL draft picks. You can find good players in that range, but there are far more misses than hits.

Plus what if the Wolves actually won a title? Would anyone really care what they gave up to get there? I wouldn't.
 

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Wolves are going to get beat so badly by small ball lineups during crunch time that gobert will be forced to the bench
Why? Do you think we matched up better with them with Vandy on the court rather than Gobert? Gobert is a generational talent on defense. Vandy might be marginally better than Towns at chasing around small 4s but Gobert is such a drastic difference in the paint. that it completely offsets whatever minimal amount lost with Vandy's defense.

Oh, they also added the best defensive small ball 4 in free agency in SlowMo. I get the concerns about Gobert's age and to a lesser extent the draft picks but arguments that we added the best defensive player in the league (by a wide margin) and we somehow got worse on defense seems like a stretch to me.

A reminder of how good of a defender Gobert is:

1657240497520.png
 




kg21

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The wolves had 5 alley oop dunks last year. Gobert had 80 of them just by himself.
 





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