The current trio is stuck in the ditch and can't get out. There's no real choice here.
All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread
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Matthew Stafford, who is the same age, was traded last year for 2 first round picks, a third, and Goff
Teams like the steelers, saints, browns, would seem to be somewhat desperate.
We might get more than we think. Stafford though only cost something like 25 million. Huge difference there.
LakevilleBro
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Yes, it is difficult to bet on the last games of the year. It is hard to gauge the motivation of the teams playing.
LakevilleBro
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I recall when Stefanski was our OC, he called a lot of passing plays and Cousins put up big numbers. Then Zimmer made his "we have to run the ball more" comments". and we did not pass as much after he said that.
Thanks for the reminder on that.
Vikings currently pick 12th
Lose to Chicago and we pass them and are drafting 11th.
If Seattle, Washington, Atlanta, or Denver win, we would move up on all of them.
I'd say we are drafting around 9 or 10 if we lose.
Win, and we could easily drop to 14.
There is zero reason to win this game.
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Lose to Chicago and we pass them and are drafting 11th.
If Seattle, Washington, Atlanta, or Denver win, we would move up on all of them.
I'd say we are drafting around 9 or 10 if we lose.
Win, and we could easily drop to 14.
There is zero reason to win this game.
Tankathon | 2025 NFL Draft Order
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JimmyJamesMD
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Zimmer has to go. Ugggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
It's not like I'm in love with the pass. But the NFL is all about what the defense gives you. Look at the Pack on Sunday. They were way ahead and still kept passing a ton. Then once the Vikings has to account for that, they went to the run to close the game out. Vikings get up by 3 or 7, and Zim immediately goes conservative.
Ope3
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They way Stafford has been playing, I would think the Rams have buyer's remorse. They have won the past couple of weeks despite him, not because of him.
short ornery norwegian
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on the "it could get worse" argument --
IMHO, the worst possible place to be in pro sports is in the middle.
If you are right around .500 every year - maybe squeaking into the playoffs or just missing the playoffs - here is what that really means.
#1 - you are not a legitimate contender for a championship, and
#2 - you are not getting the best draft picks.
that is where the Vikings are - in the middle. Not winning titles. not getting the best draft picks.
stuck in a rut.
So, if a complete rebuild means a couple of 4 or 5-win seasons, I am fine with that IF the new GM and Coach have a plan, and can draft players or make trades to fill holes and put that plan into action.
Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins ran the team into the rut. I don't trust them to fix the situation. I'll take a chance on something new - on someone new.
IMHO, the worst possible place to be in pro sports is in the middle.
If you are right around .500 every year - maybe squeaking into the playoffs or just missing the playoffs - here is what that really means.
#1 - you are not a legitimate contender for a championship, and
#2 - you are not getting the best draft picks.
that is where the Vikings are - in the middle. Not winning titles. not getting the best draft picks.
stuck in a rut.
So, if a complete rebuild means a couple of 4 or 5-win seasons, I am fine with that IF the new GM and Coach have a plan, and can draft players or make trades to fill holes and put that plan into action.
Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins ran the team into the rut. I don't trust them to fix the situation. I'll take a chance on something new - on someone new.
I laughed at the haul the lions got for Stafford.
forever a gopher
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Possibly, but they had to get rid of Goff. His salary was an albatross when you consider the productivity they were getting from him (other than his one really good year). The deal was only partially an attempt to upgrade QB; it was probably about as equally as a deal to get rid of Goff's contract, and thus why they had to overpay to find a team bad enough that didn't mind taking on a mediocre QB with a massive salary.
RememberMurray
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QUOTE:
"Titans could be AFC #1 seed and Derrick Henry hasn't played since week 8.
The modern NFL: "It's the passing game, stupid!""
--------
If it's really "all about the passing game", you sure can't tell it by the #1 seed Titans.
The Titans have Ryan Tannehill at QB. He has 17 TD passes, 14 INTs and has been sacked 46 times.
Their leading receiver, A.J. Brown, has a grand total of 59 catches for 801 yards and 4 TDs. Their second-leading receiver has 34 catches for 398 yards.
Not exactly the Greatest Show on Turf, or Air Coryell.
Compare those passing numbers to the 'stodgy, old-fashioned' Vikings under Zimmer.
"Titans could be AFC #1 seed and Derrick Henry hasn't played since week 8.
The modern NFL: "It's the passing game, stupid!""
--------
If it's really "all about the passing game", you sure can't tell it by the #1 seed Titans.
The Titans have Ryan Tannehill at QB. He has 17 TD passes, 14 INTs and has been sacked 46 times.
Their leading receiver, A.J. Brown, has a grand total of 59 catches for 801 yards and 4 TDs. Their second-leading receiver has 34 catches for 398 yards.
Not exactly the Greatest Show on Turf, or Air Coryell.
Compare those passing numbers to the 'stodgy, old-fashioned' Vikings under Zimmer.
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RememberMurray
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The Packers have Aaron Rodgers. At least, they have him for the time being.
If you have a Rodgers or a Mahomes, you're set on offense. Unfortunately, they didn't make an adequate number like Rodgers or Mahomes to go around.
JimmyJamesMD
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That's a great point, and somewhat of an extreme example on my part.
But I will say this, sometimes you need to pass to setup the run, sometimes you need to run to setup the pass.
And if the run doesn't work, well we know what the definition of insanity is
Spaulding!No!
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PA guaranteed that Rodgers wouldn’t play for the Pack in 2021. So, I think that takes care of them for now.
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2024 NFL Defense Total Team Stat Leaders - ESPN
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Ope3
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True on sweetening the deal with an extra #1 pick for the Salary Cap relief. From that standpoint that deal has zero impact on setting any kind of trade value for Cousins (unless the Vikings want to shed draft choices as well).
RememberMurray
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2024 NFL Defense Total Team Stat Leaders - ESPN
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So, let's see...
The Titans are the #1 seed in the AFC, despite having the league's 27th-ranked passing game and the 16th-ranked overall defense.
The Vikings are out of the playoffs with the second-worst overall defense in the entire league, combined with the 11th-ranked passing game.
2024 NFL Offense Total Team Stat Leaders - ESPN
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So, maybe it's not all about the passing game in the modern NFL after all. At least, it's not if you're comparing the Titans to the Vikings.
The Titans will not represent the AFC in the Super Bowl this year.
RememberMurray
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Maybe they will, and maybe not.
What we know for certain is they have one of the 5 worst passing attacks in the league, and yet they are the #1 seed in the AFC with one week left to play.
Whether they go to the Super Bowl or not, my point stands.
The Browns ran at will many games and had 5.1 yards per carry. That's ridiculous. They have the 6th ranked defense. They are not in the playoffs because they can't throw the ball well.So, let's see...
The Titans are the #1 seed in the AFC, despite having the league's 27th-ranked passing game and the 16th-ranked overall defense.
The Vikings are out of the playoffs with the second-worst overall defense in the entire league, combined with the 11th-ranked passing game.
2024 NFL Offense Total Team Stat Leaders - ESPN
ESPN is the place for NFL stats! Find a list of the Offense Total team stat leaders for the 2024 NFL Regular Season.
So, maybe it's not all about the passing game in the modern NFL after all. At least, it's not if you're comparing the Titans to the Vikings.
You can play those games all day long.
RememberMurray
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I don't know about you, but there is absolutely no game-playing on my part.
Here is the truth: The over-played assertion that "old school" offense can't win in the modern NFL has simply and utterly been blown out of the water by the Tennessee Titans. The Titans are 27th in the league in passing, and yet they're going to be the #1 playoff seed in the AFC.
As for me, I never made any claim that a strong running attack automatically guarantees a winning season in the NFL. Never said it did. Not once. I merely poked holes in the hackneyed notion that teams must have an excellent passing attack to win in the modern NFL. As I mentioned before, the success of the Titans has shown that argument to be objectively false.
Also, this extremely popular meme that 'old fuddy-duddy' Mike Zimmer's team was done in by having a stone-age offense that over-values the run at the expense of the passing game has been exposed as rubbish as well, since the Vikings actually had a pretty damn good passing attack in 2021, statistically speaking. Unfortunately, all those passing yards didn't help them enough.
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Ogee Ogilthorpe
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Stafford has been almost perfect in the 4th quarter of each of these last two games it 'appeared' he didn't play that well. Yes, the turnovers suck, but he rebounded and played lights out in the 4th quarter of each game, taking them to the win.
At the end of the day, with Stafford they are about to win arguably the most difficult division in football, the NFC West.
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You're intentionally being obtuse.
LakevilleBro
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The issue we had with our kickers, should be reason enough for Zimmer and Spielman to both be fired long ago.
1) In 2018, we trade 2 picks to draft Dan Carlson as our kicker. Zimmer quickly got frustrated with Carlson and after TWO games, he cuts him and they sign Dan Bailey. Carlson goes to the Raiders and makes 16 of 17 field goals for the Raiders in 2018. Carlson is a very good NFL kicker and has made 93% of his field goal attempts over the last 2 years.
2) Then Zimmer gets frustrated with Bailey and the Vikings then trade a 5th round pick to the Ravens for Kaare Vedvik, and cut him after 3 weeks!
Spielman likes to acquire 7 round draft picks, and then he just throws away better draft picks for no good reason.
Zimmer seems to be a knee-jerk head coach who seems to have poor relationships with players (Stefon Diggs). I do not recall any current players supporting Zimmer. Their silence is deafening.
1) In 2018, we trade 2 picks to draft Dan Carlson as our kicker. Zimmer quickly got frustrated with Carlson and after TWO games, he cuts him and they sign Dan Bailey. Carlson goes to the Raiders and makes 16 of 17 field goals for the Raiders in 2018. Carlson is a very good NFL kicker and has made 93% of his field goal attempts over the last 2 years.
2) Then Zimmer gets frustrated with Bailey and the Vikings then trade a 5th round pick to the Ravens for Kaare Vedvik, and cut him after 3 weeks!
Spielman likes to acquire 7 round draft picks, and then he just throws away better draft picks for no good reason.
Zimmer seems to be a knee-jerk head coach who seems to have poor relationships with players (Stefon Diggs). I do not recall any current players supporting Zimmer. Their silence is deafening.
Spaulding!No!
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Mayfield misses open receivers by a foot or more all the time. It’s so strange to see a starting nfl qb do that repeatedly.
JimmyJamesMD
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THIS! Spielmen is too chicken when drafting, so he likes to draft later. so he wont get criticized for missing picks
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forever a gopher
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Any chance that Spielman has any say whatsoever in this organization should be viewed as a failure. Kick his ass to the curb.
Hopefully he's VP of Community Affairs or something.