All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

RememberMurray

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Maybe they dont frame it that way to him, who knows......I guess the Wilfs shouldnt have extended him

I think in any situation like the one described — Speilman getting fired, and no new contract for Zimmer — the coach would be smart enough to see the writing on the wall. He would know what was going on.

Also, for the Wilfs to deliberately mislead Zimmer in any way would be short-sighted on their parts. The NFL is a pretty small world. Word would get around. I doubt that the Wilfs would be dumb enough to do something like that just to save a piddly $8 million, which is couch cushion money to them. They want to be able to attract good coaching candidates, now and in the future. Firing a coach is understandable and simply part of doing business, but playing their current coach for a sap while he's on his way out the door would not be a good look.
 
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howeda7

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So the three geniuses are speculating that Zimmer would agree to being a lame duck coach for one last year, on a team that is shedding salary and preparing to hire his successor — because he needs the $8 million more than he cares about his own pride and legacy?

I don't know the man personally, but that really does not match the image I have formed of him at all. I just can't see him rolling over for $8 million. I think he's saved a few bucks, and I don't think he's hurting financially. And he is definitely someone who has some self-respect.
He wouldn't be a lame duck, he has two years left on his contract. He doesn't have to "agree" with anything. They would kick Spielman upstairs, hire a new GM and not change anything with Zim or the coaching staff. I assume Zim would probably fire Kubiak and get a new OC though.
 

howeda7

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I heard them talking about it, but I doubt 8 million would make much of a difference to the Wilfs. Zygi has a net worth of 1.3 billion and just donated 5 million to his alma mater. I don’t think the money/contract would be an issue.
It probably isn't the biggest factor. A bigger factor is that by the time they have the new GM in place, the coaching carousel may have been picked clean.
 

howeda7

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I think in any situation like the one described — Speilman getting fired, and no new contract for Zimmer — the coach would be smart enough to see the writing on the wall. He would know what was going on.

Also, for the Wilfs to deliberately mislead Zimmer in any way would be short-sighted on their parts. The NFL is a pretty small world. Word would get around. I doubt that the Wilfs would be dumb enough to do something like that just to save a piddly $8 million, which is couch cushion money to them. They want to be able to attract good coaching candidates, now and in the future. Firing a coach is understandable and simply part of doing business, but playing their current coach for a sap while he's on his way out the door would not be a good look.
Zim hates Spielman. And this would likely involve trading Cousins. They will need a cheap QB for 2022. Teddy's available. Zim might love this.
 




boofbonser

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It probably isn't the biggest factor. A bigger factor is that by the time they have the new GM in place, the coaching carousel may have been picked clean.
Agreed on that. Hopefully they have been vetting some candidates so they can make a quick move after the season is over.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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Maybe he hasn't always, but I don't think he's too fond of him now. The Mond rip from last week was aimed at Spielman for sure.
Cousins signing too.

Zimmer don't like QBs unless it's teddy and likes zero kickers


But Anthony barr is his hero
 

RememberMurray

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Zim hates Spielman. And this would likely involve trading Cousins. They will need a cheap QB for 2022. Teddy's available. Zim might love this.

So Zim would let the Wilfs make him into a chump in his last season as head coach... because Zimmer loves Teddy, and hates Spielman?

Is this from the three geniuses, or is this your theory?
 



howeda7

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So Zim would let the Wilfs make him into a chump in his last season as head coach... because Zimmer loves Teddy, and hates Spielman?

Is this from the three geniuses, or is this your theory?
I don't agree with your spin on it. It's basically the same thing Denver did this year with George Paton as the new GM but Vic Fangio staying on or as the Twins did when Molitor stayed after they hired Falvey.

If they'd made the play-offs, Fangio would likely stay. They didn't. He will likely get fired. For Zim that scenario isn't much different than what he faced this year. Molitor survived 3 years because he did better than expected.

I'm not endorsing this. I'd prefer a new GM and coach. Tomlin if they can pull it off. Pederson or Leftwich otherwise.
 

howeda7

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Cousins signing too.

Zimmer don't like QBs unless it's teddy and likes zero kickers


But Anthony barr is his hero
Maybe, but he's a FA and has played like 8 games in 2 years. Barr is only back at a huge pay cut.
 

RememberMurray

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I don't agree with your spin on it. It's basically the same thing Denver did this year with George Paton as the new GM but Vic Fangio staying on or as the Twins did when Molitor stayed after they hired Falvey.

If they'd made the play-offs, Fangio would likely stay. They didn't. He will likely get fired. For Zim that scenario isn't much different than what he faced this year. Molitor survived 3 years because he did better than expected.

I'm not endorsing this. I'd prefer a new GM and coach. Tomlin if they can pull it off. Pederson or Leftwich otherwise.

I'm not spinning anything. We're not talking about Fangio or Molitor; we're talking about Mike Zimmer. He is a different type of animal. Zimmer would never go for a one-year placeholder role, just for the sake of hanging on — especially if he knows the team's plan is to create cap room for a tear-down-and-rebuild by letting "his guys" go. He wouldn't sit by idly and watch that happen, and he especially wouldn't do it just to keep his job for one lousy, losing season.

"His guys" would be gone, and the losses would pile up, and he'd be sitting there, marking time, just waiting for the end like an inmate on death row. That would be awful for him. There would be nothing appealing about it.

If the Wilfs need a placeholder coach for the upcoming tanking seasons, they can and should promote an assistant to take that fall. No coach in his 60s wants to finish his career like that.
 
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howeda7

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I'm not spinning anything. We're not talking about Fangio or Molitor; we're talking about Mike Zimmer. He is a different type of animal. Zimmer would never go for a one-year placeholder role, just for the sake of hanging on — especially if he knows the team's plan is to create cap room for a tear-down-and-rebuild by letting "his guys" go. He wouldn't sit by idly and watch that happen, and he especially wouldn't do it just to keep his job for one lousy, losing season.

"His guys" would be gone, and the losses would pile up, and he'd be sitting there, marking time, just waiting for the end like an inmate on death row. That would be awful for him. There would be nothing appealing about it.
I don't see how 2022 would be that different from 2021 for Zim. It's not a one year "place holder". He has two years left on his contract. Would he be under pressure to win? Yes. But that was the case this year too. As for "his guys" outside of Barr, they would mostly be back. Kendricks, Smith, Hunter, etc.
 



RememberMurray

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I don't see how 2022 would be that different from 2021 for Zim. It's not a one year "place holder". He has two years left on his contract. Would he be under pressure to win? Yes. But that was the case this year too. As for "his guys" outside of Barr, they would mostly be back. Kendricks, Smith, Hunter, etc.

Well, originally you said the following:

"Mackey/Judd/Doogie were speculating yesterday that the Wilf's may bring in a new GM but keep Zimmer one more year. Reasoning is that they don't want to try and do both since they may miss out on the coach they want, and also that they don't want to pay Zim $8 million next year and a new coach. Zim would likely be out after 2022 unless the new GM wants him to stay.

Not really loving this strategy, but if you are planning on 2022 being a reset and clear the salary cap year, I suppose it doesn't really matter who the coach is."


So, if most of "Zim's guys" are staying, how are the Vikings going to reset and create cap space?
 

howeda7

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How are the Vikings going to create cap space?
Trade Cousins. Maybe Cook. Restructure Theilen and Hunter. Cut Michael Pierce and a few others. Barr, Patrick Peterson and others are FA's. If they return it will be for less $.
 

RememberMurray

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Trade Cousins. Maybe Cook. Restructure Theilen and Hunter. Cut Michael Pierce and a few others. Barr, Patrick Peterson and others are FA's. If they return it will be for less $.

Trade Cousins, and Kellen Mond is your QB? Who replaces Pierce and Peterson? Sounds like a team that goes from 7-10 in 2021 to 3-14, at best, in 2022. Not much fun for the sixty-something head coach who is on a short leash.
 

howeda7

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Sounds like team that goes from 7-10 to 3-14, at best. Not much fun for the head coach who is on a short leash.
What's the alternative? If they keep Cousins they're already over the cap and can add zero FA's.

If you trade Cousins, Cook and restructure/cut those mentioned, suddenly you have $45-50 million in cap space and 3-4 draft picks in the first two rounds. A lot can be done with that.
 

RememberMurray

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What's the alternative? If they keep Cousins they're already over the cap and can add zero FA's.

If you trade Cousins, Cook and restructure/cut those mentioned, suddenly you have $45-50 million in cap space and 3-4 draft picks in the first two rounds. A lot can be done with that.

The question we're considering is whether or not staying on as the head coach (on a short leash) for the Vikings in 2022, while the team is in rebuild mode, would be a job that appeals to Mike Zimmer, a man at the end of his career.

You just now traded away his only viable QB and his starting RB. You cut his best cornerback and his nose tackle. The team is now rebuilding. Does that look rosy, from Zimmer's point of view? He's in his 60s and at the end of his career.

If you were in his shoes, would the plan you just laid out appeal to you?
 

howeda7

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The question we're considering is whether or not staying on as the head coach (on a short leash) for the Vikings in 2022, while the team is in rebuild mode, would be a job that appeals to Mike Zimmer, a man at the end of his career.

You just now traded away his only viable QB and his starting RB. You cut his best cornerback and his nose tackle. The team is now rebuilding. Does that look rosy, from Zimmer's point of view? He's in his 60s and at the end of his career.

If you were in his shoes, would the plan you just laid out appeal to you?
Zim does not like Cousins, so let's not pretend he'd be broken up about that. He does love Cook, but over-paying aging RB's is a terrible idea and Cook is now an aging, broken down RB. Mattison/Wangwu and a draft pick can form a very good RB corp.

Pierce has a big cap # and has played like 6 games in 2 years. What are you really losing there? I did not cut his best CB. Peterson is a FA. I'm fine with him returning. It will have to be for at least a slight pay cut. There are probably better options.

Depending on what QB is brought in, even with these moves, this is still a pretty good offense, with cap $ to shore up the O-line and draft picks to re-stock the defense. It doesn't have to be a total rebuild.

Even if you disagree, what exactly is Zim's leverage here? That he'll retire? They'll say "thanks for everything, don't let the door hit ya."
 

short ornery norwegian

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Zim's contract for 2022 is fully guaranteed, and supposedly, his contract for 2023 is partially guaranteed.

So, if the Vikes can him, he can stay at his ranch and collect about $14 million for the next two years - or he can get a DC job somewhere.

I agree there is no incentive for Zim to stay, because a new GM may demand that Zim make changes in his staff, and bring in a new OC with a different philosophy.

I just can't see the Wilfs being that tight that they would want Zim as a lame-duck coach to save $8mill or so. Zim is grumpy enough now - imagine his press conferences if he lost more control.
 

RememberMurray

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Zim does not like Cousins, so let's not pretend he'd be broken up about that. He does love Cook, but over-paying aging RB's is a terrible idea and Cook is now an aging, broken down RB. Mattison/Wangwu and a draft pick can form a very good RB corp.

Pierce has a big cap # and has played like 6 games in 2 years. What are you really losing there? I did not cut his best CB. Peterson is a FA. I'm fine with him returning. It will have to be for at least a slight pay cut. There are probably better options.

Depending on what QB is brought in, even with these moves, this is still a pretty good offense, with cap $ to shore up the O-line and draft picks to re-stock the defense. It doesn't have to be a total rebuild.

Even if you disagree, what exactly is Zim's leverage here? That he'll retire? They'll say "thanks for everything, don't let the door hit ya."

I'm not saying Zimmer has any leverage. You don't need leverage to say, "Nope. Not gonna do that. I'm gone, adios."

I'm not even saying I want him to stay.

I'm saying the take you originally posted, from the three geniuses at SKOR North — that the Vikings might fire the GM but hang on to the coach as a placeholder for one year, while they begin a major rebuild — seems highly unlikely. Even if the Wilfs actually wanted to do that, Zimmer wouldn't agree to it.

Re-read your own original post on this. That's what we're talking about. SKOR North.
 
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RememberMurray

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Zim's contract for 2022 is fully guaranteed, and supposedly, his contract for 2023 is partially guaranteed.

So, if the Vikes can him, he can stay at his ranch and collect about $14 million for the next two years - or he can get a DC job somewhere.

I agree there is no incentive for Zim to stay, because a new GM may demand that Zim make changes in his staff, and bring in a new OC with a different philosophy.

I just can't see the Wilfs being that tight that they would want Zim as a lame-duck coach to save $8mill or so. Zim is grumpy enough now - imagine his press conferences if he lost more control.

This guy gets it.

The money angle doesn't even figure into it. Not for the Wilfs, who are billionaires, and not for Zimmer, who is a smart cookie.

A guy in his 60s can live a very nice life on $14 million (plus whatever he has saved and invested to date, which I'd assume is substantial). If not, then the entire concept of saving and investing for retirement has no real meaning. 99.99999% of us will never come close to having that kind of financial security.
 
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kg21

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This is Zimmer's girlfriend. I think he can find other things to do.

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short ornery norwegian

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I think it's a moot point.

this is how it works, assuming the Vikes hire a new GM.

The new GM is going to want to hire "his" coach.

And the new Coach is going to want to hire "his" staff.

So, assuming there is a new GM, it's about a 99% guarantee that Zim and all of his coaches are going. Maybe a guy like Andre Patterson might stay if he has some connection to the new coach, or WR coach Keenan McCardell, who has gotten good reviews for his work with Jefferson, but the rest of the staff is toast.
 


Wally

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So the three geniuses are speculating that Zimmer would agree to being a lame duck coach for one last year, on a team that is shedding salary and preparing to hire his successor — because he needs the $8 million more than he cares about his own pride and legacy?

I don't know the man personally, but that really does not match the image I have formed of him at all. I just can't see him rolling over for $8 million. I think he's saved a few bucks, and I don't think he's hurting financially. And he is definitely someone who has some self-respect.

His girlfriend might dump him if he is no longer the coach.
 






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