All Things 2021-2022 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

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Ski U Mah Gopher said:
If they go to a 12-14 team playoff, the ghost win makes sense.

Get into the top 6 or 7, you only have to win 2 games vs 3 for the bottom teams in the playoffs. Makes the regular season more important.
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I would be more in favor advancing Division winners to Series play. Have the remaining Wild Cards play single elimination (whether it's 3 or 4 teams), until there is a single Wild Card left to advance to the Divisional Round.

That would preserve the importance of the Regular Season with the incentive to win the Division.
 
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Gophers1992 said:
I don't agree with the idea of salary caps at all but if they do one it would have to be based on % of revenue I would think.

I'm not big on the idea of saying anything is "fair" or "unfair", but I totally agree with the idea of painting the owners as the "bad guys" here. They are within their rights to fight for a more owner-favorable structure, but they can't expect the public to take their side on that.
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It's hard for the average fan to honestly know how these negotiations are going.

The sportswriters are absolutely 100% in the bag for the agents, who are obviously spinning these negotiations as favorably for the players as possible. It is literally impossible to find an accurate assessment of what is going on and who is being reasonable and unreasonable.

Finding a sportswriter that isn't essentially owned by the agents is going to be very tough. It's not just baseball either. The average fan isn't aware to any extent at all just how much the sports agents control the messaging and the narrative. Sportswriters get most of their information and "scoops" from the agents, they are absolutely terrified of upsetting or pissing off the agents.
 

well, if you can believe the reports, MLB has told the players that they need to complete a deal today in order to have a full 162-game season. (meaning games already postponed would be re-scheduled).

I continue to be hopeful that someone will come to their senses and realize that losing the entire season would be a disaster that baseball may never recover from.

I just wish that they would let an actual fan sit in on the negotiations. I suspect the owners and players would hear some things they don't like, but need to hear, about what the fans really think about the mess the game is in.
 

forever a gopher said:
I’m positive “dumb” isn’t a strong enough word. “Ghost wins”!?! What kind of dumbass idea is that? Its like they’re trying to ruin their own sport. If they’re going to go with 12/14 playoff teams, they need to cut the regular season. If half the teams get in, that marathon of a regular season becomes almost meaningless. I’d be sitting my star players at least 25+ games, and keeping my star SP under 180 innings- make sure they’re healthy for the playoffs.
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Man - didn't you use Ghost Runners when playing Wiffle Stick and you will short players!!!!
 

short ornery norwegian said:
well, if you can believe the reports, MLB has told the players that they need to complete a deal today in order to have a full 162-game season. (meaning games already postponed would be re-scheduled).

I continue to be hopeful that someone will come to their senses and realize that losing the entire season would be a disaster that baseball may never recover from.

I just wish that they would let an actual fan sit in on the negotiations. I suspect the owners and players would hear some things they don't like, but need to hear, about what the fans really think about the mess the game is in.
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I need baseball this year
 



Regarding this proposal of 14 team playoffs, here's the seventh best record in each league, going back 10 years (apologies if someone else has done this exercise and I didn't scroll back far enough):
2011: 81 wins (AL); 83 (NL)
2012: 88 (AL); 81 (NL)
2013: 85 (AL); 81 (NL)
2014: 85 (AL); 79 (NL)
2015: 83 (AL); 83 (NL)
2016: 86 (AL); 79 (NL)
2017: 80 (AL); 83 (NL)
2018: 89 (AL); 82 (NL)
2019: 84 (AL); 85 (NL)
2020: not factored due to shortened season
2021: 90 (AL); 82 (NL)

Over ten years, six years had teams with the seventh best record in their league at .500 or below (and it was awfully close to eight years). P.U. to this proposal.
 

coolhandgopher said:
Regarding this proposal of 14 team playoffs, here's the seventh best record in each league, going back 10 years (apologies if someone else has done this exercise and I didn't scroll back far enough):
2011: 81 wins (AL); 83 (NL)
2012: 88 (AL); 81 (NL)
2013: 85 (AL); 81 (NL)
2014: 85 (AL); 79 (NL)
2015: 83 (AL); 83 (NL)
2016: 86 (AL); 79 (NL)
2017: 80 (AL); 83 (NL)
2018: 89 (AL); 82 (NL)
2019: 84 (AL); 85 (NL)
2020: not factored due to shortened season
2021: 90 (AL); 82 (NL)

Over ten years, six years had teams with the seventh best record in their league at .500 or below (and it was awfully close to eight years). P.U. to this proposal.
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Yikes.
 




coolhandgopher said:
Regarding this proposal of 14 team playoffs, here's the seventh best record in each league, going back 10 years (apologies if someone else has done this exercise and I didn't scroll back far enough):
2011: 81 wins (AL); 83 (NL)
2012: 88 (AL); 81 (NL)
2013: 85 (AL); 81 (NL)
2014: 85 (AL); 79 (NL)
2015: 83 (AL); 83 (NL)
2016: 86 (AL); 79 (NL)
2017: 80 (AL); 83 (NL)
2018: 89 (AL); 82 (NL)
2019: 84 (AL); 85 (NL)
2020: not factored due to shortened season
2021: 90 (AL); 82 (NL)

Over ten years, six years had teams with the seventh best record in their league at .500 or below (and it was awfully close to eight years). P.U. to this proposal.
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MLB teams make their $ in the regular season. Making the regular season meaningless is not a good idea. Hard no 7. Would prefer to stick at 5, but would begrudgingly accept 6 at this point.

If all they want is "Play-off TV inventory" to sell,stay at 5 teams, make the Wild Card 3 games each and the make the Division rounds best of 7. You add ~6 games of TV inventory without screwing with the regular season.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
It's hard for the average fan to honestly know how these negotiations are going.

The sportswriters are absolutely 100% in the bag for the agents, who are obviously spinning these negotiations as favorably for the players as possible. It is literally impossible to find an accurate assessment of what is going on and who is being reasonable and unreasonable.

Finding a sportswriter that isn't essentially owned by the agents is going to be very tough. It's not just baseball either. The average fan isn't aware to any extent at all just how much the sports agents control the messaging and the narrative. Sportswriters get most of their information and "scoops" from the agents, they are absolutely terrified of upsetting or pissing off the agents.
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It's not just the agents and "sportswriters." With social media all of the parties are getting their messages out in a multitude of ways.

In terms of allocating fault for this stink bomb, nobody is 100% responsible for what has happened. However, I'm reminded that the players didn't lock themselves out.
 

jamiche said:
It's not just the agents and "sportswriters." With social media all of the parties are getting their messages out in a multitude of ways.

In terms of allocating fault for this stink bomb, nobody is 100% responsible for what has happened. However, I'm reminded that the players didn't lock themselves out.
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A lot of writers are in the bag for owners and team management too. Rosenthal is notoriously in the bag for the League itself.
 

jamiche said:
It's not just the agents and "sportswriters." With social media all of the parties are getting their messages out in a multitude of ways.

In terms of allocating fault for this stink bomb, nobody is 100% responsible for what has happened. However, I'm reminded that the players didn't lock themselves out.
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I'm not on social media, like at all, but I can't say I've ever heard a huge majority of professional franchise owners, particularly MLB team owners, very active on social media, or taking a lot of interviews with the media right now.

I don't know where most of the fault for this shitshow is with MLB, and honestly I don't really care. My primary point I was making, just because I had somewhat recently started to understand this in the last 4-6 months or so listening to a variety of sports podcasts, is that I had never know just how much stroke agents have in grand scheme of things, especially with what information gets out to the media and is then distributed.

The player agents control a major portion of what is being put out for public consumption. You are simply not going to get a lot of media outlets/writers that are going to produce much of anything that has a very positive spin on things for the owners. It's not going to happen
 



Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I'm not on social media, like at all, but I can't say I've ever heard a huge majority of professional franchise owners, particularly MLB team owners, very active on social media, or taking a lot of interviews with the media right now.

I don't know where most of the fault for this shitshow is with MLB, and honestly I don't really care. My primary point I was making, just because I had somewhat recently started to understand this in the last 4-6 months or so listening to a variety of sports podcasts, is that I had never know just how much stroke agents have in grand scheme of things, especially with what information gets out to the media and is then distributed.

The player agents control a major portion of what is being put out for public consumption. You are simply not going to get a lot of media outlets/writers that are going to produce much of anything that has a very positive spin on things for the owners. It's not going to happen
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If you aren't on social media how do you know the players' agents have control over what goes out for public consumption?

Of course the owners themselves aren't on social media. Their bobos are. Same for the agents. The point is that all interested parties are fighting the battle for public opinion. At the moment the owners appear to be losing. Probably for good reason.
 

jamiche said:
If you aren't on social media how do you know the players' agents have control over what goes out for public consumption?

Of course the owners themselves aren't on social media. Their bobos are. Same for the agents. The point is that all interested parties are fighting the battle for public opinion. At the moment the owners appear to be losing. Probably for good reason.
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It's not a secret that the agents have a lot of stroke when it comes to information being released. I don't have to see it on social media to know that.

I'm merely saying be cautious of everything you hear. I have no doubt that the public vibe is tilted in favor of the players, it's been crafted very strategically to do just that. I don't care either way how this thing goes, my baseball watching last year fell off a cliff. It's just worth noting to consider where a majority of the information is coming from
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
It's not a secret that the agents have a lot of stroke when it comes to information being released. I don't have to see it on social media to know that.

I'm merely saying be cautious of everything you hear. I have no doubt that the public vibe is tilted in favor of the players, it's been crafted very strategically to do just that. I don't care either way how this thing goes, my baseball watching last year fell off a cliff. It's just worth noting to consider where a majority of the information is coming from
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Eh, there has been info/stories tilted the other way too. I forget who it was who ran the headline making sure to point out that Scherzer drove his Porsche to attend the negotiations, as if that's relevant.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
It's not a secret that the agents have a lot of stroke when it comes to information being released. I don't have to see it on social media to know that.

I'm merely saying be cautious of everything you hear. I have no doubt that the public vibe is tilted in favor of the players, it's been crafted very strategically to do just that. I don't care either way how this thing goes, my baseball watching last year fell off a cliff. It's just worth noting to consider where a majority of the information is coming from
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Where are you getting most of your information about the lockout? What are your sources?
 

well, based on what I've read (mostly ESPN and a few of the national writers), the two sides are getting a lot closer on the main economic issues.

It sounds like the last big sticking point is an international draft. The players seem dead-set against it.

it was reported (if you believe the report) that the owners offered the players multiple options, including -- if the players accepted the international draft, the owners would drop draft-pick compensation to teams signing free agents. There was also an option where the players could request that the CBA be re-opened in 2024 if they didn't like some of the provisions.

according to the reports I read, the players turned down all the options that were offered.

now, it could get sticky. enough games have been postponed/cancelled where players would not get in enough games to qualify for a full year of service, meaning that players would have to wait another year to qualify for arbitration or free agency.

the players have reportedly said that any CBA agreement has to include a full year of service time.

so another potential standoff.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Eh, there has been info/stories tilted the other way too. I forget who it was who ran the headline making sure to point out that Scherzer drove his Porsche to attend the negotiations, as if that's relevant.
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The irony of that headline (didn't see it) is that every single owner could fly their own jet to attend the negotiations.
 


We're Back!

the players have reportedly voted to accept the new offer from MLB on the CBA. Voting was done on a team-by-team basis and reported by each team's player rep.

Supposedly, the MLBPA executive committee recommended against approving the agreement, so the rank-and-file went against the advice of the union leadership.

update per Jon Hayman - union exec board voted 8-0 against the proposal, but teams voted 26-4 in favor. (meaning a majority of players on 26 teams voted in favor)

Players report to spring training ASAP.

Opening day tentatively scheduled for April 7th. looks like a 162-game schedule using 9-inning DH's. No more 7-inn DH or starting extra-innings with a man on 2nd base.

As soon as the vote is ratified, team may begin signing free agents and making trades.

get ready for the Oklahoma Land Rush of player transactions.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
We're Back!

the players have reportedly voted to accept the new offer from MLB on the CBA. Voting was done on a team-by-team basis and reported by each team's player rep.

Supposedly, the MLBPA executive committee recommended against approving the agreement, so the rank-and-file went against the advice of the union leadership.

update per Jon Hayman - union exec board voted 8-0 against the proposal, but teams voted 26-4 in favor. (meaning a majority of players on 26 teams voted in favor)

Players report to spring training ASAP.

Opening day tentatively scheduled for April 7th. looks like a 162-game schedule using 9-inning DH's. No more 7-inn DH or starting extra-innings with a man on 2nd base.

As soon as the vote is ratified, team may begin signing free agents and making trades.

get ready for the Oklahoma Land Rush of player transactions.
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Owners won bigly.
 





howeda7 said:
Owners won bigly.
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Looking at the lopsided vote for the offer, reading what was being worked on and listening to Jeff Passan, sounds like the players got most of what they wanted.

The owners did get a shorter Spring Training and they've already killed a number of Minor Leagues, so they won too.

The only people who lost were the people that didn't want them to play.
 


GophersInIowa said:
I think they always were going to win, it was always just a matter of by how much.
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In any of these negotiations, the owners are almost always going to win; the owners know what they want and what's important to them, whereas the players are all over the map on what they want. The players tend to plant their flag on stupid issues.

Take weed for example; for whatever reason it's an important issue to the players, the owners couldn't care less, but they'll use it as a tool to get the players to cave on something that's actually more important in the bigger picture, usually fiscally related.

What's unfortunate is the young players are always very underrepresented in these negotiations, and the veterans end up fighting for what's best for them, even though the veterans already couldn't have it much better.
 

Agree with others. Owners are always going to win these. Owners could go for a few years without baseball because they have enough wealth coming from other areas. You'll never have a majority of baseball players who are able to financially skip a year of their short career to win. Not many baseball players want to give up 20% of their lifetime earning potential by skipping a year.
 

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