All Things 2020 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

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coolhandgopher said:
Hmm, 10 best coaches in the league? I don't know, it's a subjective category for sure to try and rank, but I would rate these ten ahead of Zimmer:
Belichick
Andy Reid
Sean Payton
Pete Carroll
Sean McVey
Frank Reich
Mike Vrabel
John Harbaugh
Mike Tomlin
Ron Rivera

And, it feels too early to endorse fully, but these coaches are showing a great deal of promise early in their head coaching careers:
Brian Flores
Matt LaFleur
Kyle Shanahan
Matt Rhule
Sean McDermott
Kevin Stefanski

I haven't mentioned Doug Pederson and Jon Gruden, two guys with Super Bowl titles to their names.

Zimmer feels a lot like the Mike McCarthy's, Jeff Fisher's, and Jason Garrett's of the world-head coaches with records slightly above .500 (McCarthy's is much better, although he gets demerit points for not doing more with Aaron Rodgers' prime) and mediocre playoff records who do just enough to convince the brass to keep bringing them back. He rests smack dab in the slightly above average category of head coaches, similarly to Cousins with his quarterbacking peers.

For comparison's sake, here's Zimmer's head coaching record vs. Jason Garrett. I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference-lots of yo-yoing with little playoff success. I don't recall anyone thinking that Garrett was an irreplaceable coach and he was doing it with a lot less autonomy than Zimmer seems to have:
TeamYearRegular seasonPostseason
WonLostTiesWin %FinishWonLostWin %Result
Total63431.59323.400
MIN2014790.4383rd in NFC North————
MIN20151150.6881st in NFC North01.000Lost to Seattle Seahawks in NFC Wild-Card Game
MIN2016880.5003rd in NFC North————
MIN20171330.8131st in NFC North11.500Lost to Philadelphia Eagles in NFC Championship Game
MIN2018871.5312nd in NFC North————
MIN20191060.6252nd in NFC North11.500Lost to San Francisco 49ers in NFC Divisional Game
MIN2020660.500TBD00–

Here's Jason Garrett's record:
TeamYearRegular seasonPostseason
WonLostTiesWin %FinishWonLostWin %Result
Total[33]85670.55923.400
DAL*2010530.6253rd in NFC East––––
DAL2011880.5003rd in NFC East––––
DAL2012880.5003rd in NFC East––––
DAL2013880.5002nd in NFC East––––
DAL20141240.7501st in NFC East11.500Lost to Green Bay Packers in NFC Divisional Game
DAL20154120.2504th in NFC East––––
DAL20161330.8131st in NFC East01.000Lost to Green Bay Packers in NFC Divisional Game
DAL2017970.5632nd in NFC East––––
DAL20181060.6251st in NFC East11.500Lost to Los Angeles Rams in NFC Divisional Game
DAL2019880.5002nd in NFC East––––
Click to expand...

Great post, I couldn't agree more.
 

coolhandgopher said:
Hmm, 10 best coaches in the league? I don't know, it's a subjective category for sure to try and rank, but I would rate these ten ahead of Zimmer:
Belichick
Andy Reid
Sean Payton
Pete Carroll
Sean McVey
Frank Reich
Mike Vrabel
John Harbaugh
Mike Tomlin
Ron Rivera

And, it feels too early to endorse fully, but these coaches are showing a great deal of promise early in their head coaching careers:
Brian Flores
Matt LaFleur
Kyle Shanahan
Matt Rhule
Sean McDermott
Kevin Stefanski

I haven't mentioned Doug Pederson and Jon Gruden, two guys with Super Bowl titles to their names.

Zimmer feels a lot like the Mike McCarthy's, Jeff Fisher's, and Jason Garrett's of the world-head coaches with records slightly above .500 (McCarthy's is much better, although he gets demerit points for not doing more with Aaron Rodgers' prime) and mediocre playoff records who do just enough to convince the brass to keep bringing them back. He rests smack dab in the slightly above average category of head coaches, similarly to Cousins with his quarterbacking peers.

For comparison's sake, here's Zimmer's head coaching record vs. Jason Garrett. I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference-lots of yo-yoing with little playoff success. I don't recall anyone thinking that Garrett was an irreplaceable coach and he was doing it with a lot less autonomy than Zimmer seems to have:
Total63431.59323.400
WonLostTiesWin %FinishWonLostWin %Result
TeamYearRegular seasonPostseason
MIN2014790.4383rd in NFC North————
MIN20151150.6881st in NFC North01.000Lost to Seattle Seahawks in NFC Wild-Card Game
MIN2016880.5003rd in NFC North————
MIN20171330.8131st in NFC North11.500Lost to Philadelphia Eagles in NFC Championship Game
MIN2018871.5312nd in NFC North————
MIN20191060.6252nd in NFC North11.500Lost to San Francisco 49ers in NFC Divisional Game
MIN2020660.500TBD00–

Here's Jason Garrett's record:
Total[33]85670.55923.400
WonLostTiesWin %FinishWonLostWin %Result
TeamYearRegular seasonPostseason
DAL*2010530.6253rd in NFC East––––
DAL2011880.5003rd in NFC East––––
DAL2012880.5003rd in NFC East––––
DAL2013880.5002nd in NFC East––––
DAL20141240.7501st in NFC East11.500Lost to Green Bay Packers in NFC Divisional Game
DAL20154120.2504th in NFC East––––
DAL20161330.8131st in NFC East01.000Lost to Green Bay Packers in NFC Divisional Game
DAL2017970.5632nd in NFC East––––
DAL20181060.6251st in NFC East11.500Lost to Los Angeles Rams in NFC Divisional Game
DAL2019880.5002nd in NFC East––––
Click to expand...
Belichick-Yes
Andy Reid Yes
Sean Payton Yes
Pete Carroll Yes
Sean McVey Yes
Frank Reich Yes
Mike Vrabel No-One nice play-off upset doesn't move him ahead of Zim
John Harbaugh Yes
Mike Tomlin Yes
Ron Rivera No. He got fired by Carolina for a reason. He's doing a decent job putting out a dumpster fire in DC, but let's see.
I would put Shanahan ahead of Zim as well. Making Zim #10.
 

coolhandgopher said:
Hmm, 10 best coaches in the league? I don't know, it's a subjective category for sure to try and rank, but I would rate these ten ahead of Zimmer:
Belichick
Andy Reid
Sean Payton
Pete Carroll
Sean McVey
Frank Reich
Mike Vrabel
John Harbaugh
Mike Tomlin
Ron Rivera

And, it feels too early to endorse fully, but these coaches are showing a great deal of promise early in their head coaching careers:
Brian Flores
Matt LaFleur
Kyle Shanahan
Matt Rhule
Sean McDermott
Kevin Stefanski

I haven't mentioned Doug Pederson and Jon Gruden, two guys with Super Bowl titles to their names.

Zimmer feels a lot like the Mike McCarthy's, Jeff Fisher's, and Jason Garrett's of the world-head coaches with records slightly above .500 (McCarthy's is much better, although he gets demerit points for not doing more with Aaron Rodgers' prime) and mediocre playoff records who do just enough to convince the brass to keep bringing them back. He rests smack dab in the slightly above average category of head coaches, similarly to Cousins with his quarterbacking peers.

For comparison's sake, here's Zimmer's head coaching record vs. Jason Garrett. I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference-lots of yo-yoing with little playoff success. I don't recall anyone thinking that Garrett was an irreplaceable coach and he was doing it with a lot less autonomy than Zimmer seems to have:
TeamYearRegular seasonPostseason
WonLostTiesWin %FinishWonLostWin %Result
Total63431.59323.400
MIN2014790.4383rd in NFC North————
MIN20151150.6881st in NFC North01.000Lost to Seattle Seahawks in NFC Wild-Card Game
MIN2016880.5003rd in NFC North————
MIN20171330.8131st in NFC North11.500Lost to Philadelphia Eagles in NFC Championship Game
MIN2018871.5312nd in NFC North————
MIN20191060.6252nd in NFC North11.500Lost to San Francisco 49ers in NFC Divisional Game
MIN2020660.500TBD00–

Here's Jason Garrett's record:
TeamYearRegular seasonPostseason
WonLostTiesWin %FinishWonLostWin %Result
Total[33]85670.55923.400
DAL*2010530.6253rd in NFC East––––
DAL2011880.5003rd in NFC East––––
DAL2012880.5003rd in NFC East––––
DAL2013880.5002nd in NFC East––––
DAL20141240.7501st in NFC East11.500Lost to Green Bay Packers in NFC Divisional Game
DAL20154120.2504th in NFC East––––
DAL20161330.8131st in NFC East01.000Lost to Green Bay Packers in NFC Divisional Game
DAL2017970.5632nd in NFC East––––
DAL20181060.6251st in NFC East11.500Lost to Los Angeles Rams in NFC Divisional Game
DAL2019880.5002nd in NFC East––––
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with the list of coaches you put ahead of Zim, for the most part.

The glaring difference between Zim and Garrett (and probably a number of coaches listed ahead of Zimmer) is the lack of a true franchise QB.

Head to head against Garrett alone, among the years listed, the Vikings were rolling with Christian Ponder, Matt Cassel, (rookie) Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Bradford, Case Keenum and now Kirk (who most everyone hates); during that time, the Cowboys have had Tony Romo and Dak. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

None of this changes the underlying question; if not Zim, who? If you're going to move off a guy with Zimmer, warts and all, you better have a good idea who that person is and that they will be undoubtedly better
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Can't remember where I read this, but apparently Cousins grades out the highest on play-action passes.

Play-action doesn't work without the threat of a running game. take Cook out of the equation, and defenses will play Cousins differently.

If you don't have a RB who is a legitimate threat, then you need a mobile QB who can make plays with his feet. That ain't Kirk.

Beyond that, the Vikes' whole system is based on a run-first offense with play-action passing. If you get rid of Cook, then Cousins probably has to go, followed by Zimmer - because Zimmer is the one pushing for the run-first offense.
Click to expand...

What you have described is also why when the Vikes really need a scoring drive to tie/win under the 2 minute warning, they struggle.
 

Plausible Deniability said:
I don't disagree with the list of coaches you put ahead of Zim, for the most part.

The glaring difference between Zim and Garrett (and probably a number of coaches listed ahead of Zimmer) is the lack of a true franchise QB.

Head to head against Garrett alone, among the years listed, the Vikings were rolling with Christian Ponder, Matt Cassel, (rookie) Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Bradford, Case Keenum and now Kirk (who most everyone hates); during that time, the Cowboys have had Tony Romo and Dak. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

None of this changes the underlying question; if not Zim, who? If you're going to move off a guy with Zimmer, warts and all, you better have a good idea who that person is and that they will be undoubtedly better
Click to expand...
That's why these lists are so subjective-so many factors come into play that are hard to determine whether it's the coaching, the personnel, the division they play in, etc. Ron Rivera's actually a perfect example of this-when Cam Newton was healthy, the Panthers were winning their division and heading to the Super Bowl; when he got hurt, Rivera was on the job search shortly thereafter, albeit not for long.

Part of my skepticism with Zimmer was how the post-Pat Shurmur/Case Keenum season was handled, when they hired the guy from Philly who was subsequently fired before the next season ended due to philosophical differences. Seems like that would be something you'd be crystal clear in an interview with a coordinator, regarding what your priorities were. Probably not all on Zimmer, but doesn't engender confidence. The way Daniel Carlson was handled also gave me a lot of pause. One rough game in the second game of his career and he's jettisoned? He got right with the Raiders pretty much immediately after signing with them and looks like he could settle into a Janikowski type run of longevity for our 5th round pick in '18. I'm not a fan of rash management styles.

I don't know how you ever make a change at the top and guarantee things will be undoubtedly better. How can you ever know for sure? Just look at the list of the Top 10 coaches I provided-Belichick had failed in Cleveland, Reid had a reputation of a failed clock manager who couldn't get a team over the top, Carroll had mediocre NFL results prior to being successful at USC, Rivera has recently been fired. Payton, McVey, Vrabel, Tomlin, and Reich were well regarded assistants/coordinators, but there's a much longer list of flameouts in that category. Hell, Harbaugh was a special teams coach before getting the head job. I imagine Zimmer can provide the Vikes with a window between 7-10 wins per season for a few more years at least and maybe a first round playoff win-beyond that, I don't see much more to expect. Again, he and Kirk Cousins are a very compatible match.
 


coolhandgopher said:
I don't know how you ever make a change at the top and guarantee things will be undoubtedly better. How can you ever know for sure? Just look at the list of the Top 10 coaches I provided-Belichick had failed in Cleveland, Reid had a reputation of a failed clock manager who couldn't get a team over the top, Carroll had mediocre NFL results prior to being successful at USC, Rivera has recently been fired. Payton, McVey, Vrabel, Tomlin, and Reich were well regarded assistants/coordinators, but there's a much longer list of flameouts in that category. Hell, Harbaugh was a special teams coach before getting the head job. I imagine Zimmer can provide the Vikes with a window between 7-10 wins per season for a few more years at least and maybe a first round playoff win-beyond that, I don't see much more to expect. Again, he and Kirk Cousins are a very compatible match.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even say that The Hoodie "failed" in Cleveland. He got them to the playoffs and even won a game during his 5 yr tenure there. His last season they circled the drain (after starting 3-1) with the whole move to Baltimore deal.
 

per Shooter:

The way it looks now, Kirk Cousins’ future in Minnesota could depend on the final month of the season that begins Sunday afternoon in Tampa Bay.

If Cousins, 32, continues to play well, there could be a trade market for the quarterback, who, if he’s on the Vikings roster next March, will be guaranteed $33 million for 2022.

That’s great money for a quarterback who’s good but not great. Going forward, Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf need to decide whether Cousins is worth the investment or whether they could use those millions to revamp.

Cousins is one of the two biggest questions remaining for the Vikings in the off-season. The other is pass rusher Danielle Hunter, 26, who despite missing this season with neck surgery could be eyeing a new deal in the $20 million per season range.

www.twincities.com

Charley Walters: Final month could decide Kirk Cousins’ future

The way it looks now, Kirk Cousins’ future in Minnesota could depend on the final month of the season that begins Sunday afternoon in Tampa Bay. If Cousins, 32, continues to play well, there could …
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

The way it looks now, Kirk Cousins’ future in Minnesota could depend on the final month of the season that begins Sunday afternoon in Tampa Bay.

If Cousins, 32, continues to play well, there could be a trade market for the quarterback, who, if he’s on the Vikings roster next March, will be guaranteed $33 million for 2022.

That’s great money for a quarterback who’s good but not great. Going forward, Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf need to decide whether Cousins is worth the investment or whether they could use those millions to revamp.

Cousins is one of the two biggest questions remaining for the Vikings in the off-season. The other is pass rusher Danielle Hunter, 26, who despite missing this season with neck surgery could be eyeing a new deal in the $20 million per season range.

www.twincities.com

Charley Walters: Final month could decide Kirk Cousins’ future

The way it looks now, Kirk Cousins’ future in Minnesota could depend on the final month of the season that begins Sunday afternoon in Tampa Bay. If Cousins, 32, continues to play well, there could …
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!
Click to expand...
By the time next season kicks off, and a handful of other QB's sign new deals, the number for Cousins won't seem that high at all for a QB of his caliber. I'm not saying Kirk is the long term solution at the position for the Vikings but there are myriad worse contracts in the NFL right now.

No idea what to think about today's Bucs game. Part of me really thinks they can pull off the win but I'm worried about the Bucs having the bye week last week and taking the time to get healthy, get their shit together, and for Arians to move the offense closer to what Brady does well and not so much what HE wants to do.

Bucs by a TD seems high, but this has arguably been the most unpredictable Vikings team we've seen in a long time. I wouldn't touch the game at the book
 

Congrats to the NFL for ruining kickers.
 





Plausible Deniability said:
None of this changes the underlying question; if not Zim, who? If you're going to move off a guy with Zimmer, warts and all, you better have a good idea who that person is and that they will be undoubtedly better
Click to expand...

Eric Bieniemy.

But I want Spielman gone before anyone.
 

Kai Forbath waits for phone call....
 



Unregistered User said:
Eric Bieniemy.

But I want Spielman gone before anyone.
Click to expand...
Bieniemy may very well be a GREAT HC candidate but you DO know it's Andy Reid calling the plays, right? Eric B in that respect would be a similar candidate to Matt Nagy in Chicago and Nagy hasn't exactly lit the world on fire.
 

The officiating continues to be a joke. Beebe took a much worse late hit to the head early on with no penalty. But they never miss anything Harrison Smith does.
 

It gets even worse. Clock magically stops at 1 second to allow one more play and then a gift PI to give them an extra 3 points.
 

GophersInIowa said:
It gets even worse. Clock magically stops at 1 second to allow one more play and then a gift PI to give them an extra 3 points.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how Zimmerman hasn't blown a gasket yet. You could see Thielen barking about the time.
 
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How was this not roughing the passer.

EpJWyLfXIAY-Jpe
 




howeda7 said:
No. He's broken. Time to cut bait. Is there any position in sports more mentally fragile than NFL kickers?
Click to expand...
I'll never forget two VERY prophetic things that the old barefooter, Rich Karlis, said when he was negotiating his contract with the Vikings, both are still as true today as they were way back then:

1 - There are not 28 (at the time 28 teams in the NFL) good kickers in the NFL

2 - You don't know how important a good kicker is until you don't have one

Ol' Rich nailed it then and it's still true now. Find one and pay him, overpay him if necessary
 

What a shit show today was.

Its on Zimmer and Speilman, our kicker should be Daniel Carlson...
 

Give me Hauskcha or Cantanzero. Or Forbath.

 

howeda7 said:
Give me Hauskcha or Cantanzero. Or Forbath.

Click to expand...
Maybe to close the remainder of the season, but they have an issue moving forward starting next season. I watched Catanzaro with the Cardinals and was never really disappointed in his performance, but I wonder why he's unemployed at this point
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Maybe to close the remainder of the season, but they have an issue moving forward starting next season. I watched Catanzaro with the Cardinals and was never really disappointed in his performance, but I wonder why he's unemployed at this point
Click to expand...
Sign a decent FA in the off-season. No more wasted draft picks.

The Broncos have had basically 3 kickers in the last 26 years {Jason Elam, Matt Prater, Brandon McManus} it should be this hard.
 


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