All Things 2020 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I totally acknowledge you would likely be on the winning side if we took a poll on this topic. I guess it would also depend on what "value" the public currently places on him to evaluate whether he is overvalued or undervalued. From a pure dollars standpoint, I agree he is probably overpaid but by how much? I'm not sure. In my own view, it seems the public has an overwhelming negative view on him. Would you agree?

Many of your comments are subjective. If you drop back enough times, you will end up holding onto the ball too long sometimes, you throw interceptions, make bad reads, etc. Even Russell Wilson has had the same number of interceptions and been sacked more times that Cousins. Thielen, Diggs, and Jefferson have made a bunch of money because of Cousins, not despite him, in my opinion. They might have had the same production with another quarterback but there are many quarterbacks which likely would have resulted in less production. When you look at all star/pro bowl caliber wide receivers, they all have above average to elite quarterbacks throwing to them.

But maybe my broader point on Cousins would be this.....he is top ten or so in almost every statistical category. Quarterbacks that would be clear upgrades over him for either the short term or the long term are either long-time franchise level quarterbacks (Rogers/Wilson/Brady/Brees/Mahomes) or recent high draft picks as a result of a team bottoming out (Allen/Murray/Herbert/Burrow). None of these guys would be available for any price. So then you are left with a bunch of guys that are no better than Cousins, in my opinion. So then the decision becomes a compete re-build with a draft pick at/around where Christian Ponder was picked years ago (crapshoot) or try to re-build the defense and offensive line. I guess for me, I would pick the latter option.

Cousins is pretty much never going to be the QB that most of us want him to be, but right now, he's far from the most pressing problem this team has. With a solid offseason between now and next August, this can be a pretty competitive team next year.

 

[forever a gopher]

Cousins is pretty much never going to be the QB that most of us want him to be, but right now, he's far from the most pressing problem this team has. With a solid offseason between now and next August, this can be a pretty competitive team next year.

And therein lies the crux. With Cousins, they can be a competitive team. If they have few injuries on D, they could be a 3-5 seed in the playoffs next year. But watching games that matter makes it very clear Cousins is not going to win you any/many big games. The top is probably winning a first round playoff game. Is that enough to keep the status quo? This team has been hovering around that for about as long as I can remember. Sure, it’s better than being the Bengals or Jets or some other garbage teams, but it also means they have little likelihood of achieving greatness. I find it staggering that anybody could argue otherwise about Cousins. He’s had many opportunities with different teams with different teammates. Yet, his teams always end up the same. It’s not all on Cousins. The OL has been ignored for basically Spielmans entire tenure. Zim gets way too many of “his guys” that eat up salary cap (see Harris and Barr) that don’t produce enough to warrant their big contracts. Bit without getting a QB, this team will never get there.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

And therein lies the crux. With Cousins, they can be a competitive team. If they have few injuries on D, they could be a 3-5 seed in the playoffs next year. But watching games that matter makes it very clear Cousins is not going to win you any/many big games. The top is probably winning a first round playoff game. Is that enough to keep the status quo? This team has been hovering around that for about as long as I can remember. Sure, it’s better than being the Bengals or Jets or some other garbage teams, but it also means they have little likelihood of achieving greatness. I find it staggering that anybody could argue otherwise about Cousins. He’s had many opportunities with different teams with different teammates. Yet, his teams always end up the same. It’s not all on Cousins. The OL has been ignored for basically Spielmans entire tenure. Zim gets way too many of “his guys” that eat up salary cap (see Harris and Barr) that don’t produce enough to warrant their big contracts. Bit without getting a QB, this team will never get there.

I mostly agree on Cousins, which is why the Vikings need to try and draft a franchise QB early in the upcoming draft. That QB sits behind Cousins next season, and give him one more shot with a healthier team.

Spielman hasn't neglected the OL, but he has made poor choices in the draft. The last 3 years they've drafted OL in the first 2 rounds, and 4 years ago it was Elflein in the 3rd, who looked good until injuries derailed his career. The other picks were O'Neill who looks good, Bradbury who looks bad, and Cleveland looks better than Samia, who they also spent a 4th rounder on last year.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I mostly agree on Cousins, which is why the Vikings need to try and draft a franchise QB early in the upcoming draft. That QB sits behind Cousins next season, and give him one more shot with a healthier team.

Spielman hasn't neglected the OL, but he has made poor choices in the draft. The last 3 years they've drafted OL in the first 2 rounds, and 4 years ago it was Elflein in the 3rd, who looked good until injuries derailed his career. The other picks were O'Neill who looks good, Bradbury who looks bad, and Cleveland looks much than Samia, who they also spent a 4th rounder on last year.

The problem with drafting a QB "early" in the draft, those guys just aren't sitting anymore. You draft a guy that high, he's playing at some point in year 1. If someone slips to the late 2nd or 3rd, they can sure do that, and have him sit. The ONLY way I would support drafting a Round 1 QB this year for the Vikings is if a guy they LOVE falls to them, or falls far enough for them to spend the capital to trade up.

Now, there's sure a chance that the Vikings could be moving up the draft board in the next 10 days. A TON of 5-9 teams that can win 1 or 2 games down the stretch and slid past the Vikings. At that point, they could actually be left with a QB they love, that could still be a developmental QB, like a Trey Lance. I like Wilson, the kid from BYU, but he is not a very big kid. Listed at 6-3, I've heard he'll be lucky to measure 6-1 1/2 and he's not even 200 pounds. Almost ZERO QB's in the league under 200 pounds, not even Kyler Murray.

I think Elflein was the only real miss (and a 3rd rounder at that). A little early to close the book on Bradbury or Cleveland; I think both will be starters on the OL for a while.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

The problem with drafting a QB "early" in the draft, those guys just aren't sitting anymore. You draft a guy that high, he's playing at some point in year 1. If someone slips to the late 2nd or 3rd, they can sure do that, and have him sit. The ONLY way I would support drafting a Round 1 QB this year for the Vikings is if a guy they LOVE falls to them, or falls far enough for them to spend the capital to trade up.

Now, there's sure a chance that the Vikings could be moving up the draft board in the next 10 days. A TON of 5-9 teams that can win 1 or 2 games down the stretch and slid past the Vikings. At that point, they could actually be left with a QB they love, that could still be a developmental QB, like a Trey Lance. I like Wilson, the kid from BYU, but he is not a very big kid. Listed at 6-3, I've heard he'll be lucky to measure 6-1 1/2 and he's not even 200 pounds. Almost ZERO QB's in the league under 200 pounds, not even Kyler Murray.

I think Elflein was the only real miss (and a 3rd rounder at that). A little early to close the book on Bradbury or Cleveland; I think both will be starters on the OL for a while.

I'll agree that they are not sitting as much as they used to, but teams are still using high draft picks on them and attempting to sit them.

I feel like the Vikings are in a similar situation as the Chiefs were 4 years ago. Alex Smith was getting them to the playoffs, but that's about it. They drafted Mahomes 10th, and sat him his first year. Next season they traded Smith and the rest is history.

Baltimore tried to sit Lamar Jackson, but then Flacco got hurt. Green Bay drafted Love in the first round this year. I don't think the Eagles wanted to play Hurts, but Wentz has been so bad they had to.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I'll agree that they are not sitting as much as they used to, but teams are still using high draft picks on them and attempting to sit them.

I feel like the Vikings are in a similar situation as the Chiefs were 4 years ago. Alex Smith was getting them to the playoffs, but that's about it. They drafted Mahomes 10th, and sat him his first year. Next season they traded Smith and the rest is history.

Baltimore tried to sit Lamar Jackson, but then Flacco got hurt. Green Bay drafted Love in the first round this year. I don't think the Eagles wanted to play Hurts, but Wentz has been so bad they had to.

I agree on the Mahomes comparison; he was there and the Chiefs loved him. I would agree with that move for the Vikings here. If the Vikings lose next week, they'll probably be drafting around 12 or 13? There could very well be a QB within striking distance that they could take. But it needs to be someone they LOVE or it ain't worth it.

I wanted the Vikings to draft Love this year SO bad, and the Packers move in front of them and take Love; but by most accounts, Love has been FAR less than spectacular, quite a long ways from starting in the league. It's early, but it sure sounds like he's struggling.

The Ravens and Jackson had better pray that Greg Roman never leaves Baltimore for greener pastures. Roman is the same OC (with the help of Kap's former Univ of Nev-Reno former HC as a "consultant") that made Kap look like a serviceable NFL starting QB for a year or two with the 49ers.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Side note: The Vikings-Lions game next week could mean the difference in a BUNCH of draft positions, particularly since both teams have almost identical SOS. Vikings could conceivably draft as high as 8th or 9th with a loss, and as low as 16th or so with a win. Huge stakes.

I think it's high time we see what we have in Jake Browning!

 

[forever a gopher]

Side note: The Vikings-Lions game next week could mean the difference in a BUNCH of draft positions, particularly since both teams have almost identical SOS. Vikings could conceivably draft as high as 8th or 9th with a loss, and as low as 16th or so with a win. Huge stakes.

I think it's high time we see what we have in Jake Browning!

Lions are garbage and in a free fall. Unless the Vikes “throw” the game, they can’t lose it (unfortunately).

I was happy when the Pack took Love. He regressed hard core from his one good season in college. Major red flags. Is Zach Wilson for real? Measurables not good. However, he’s a guy that could shoot up the boards with a good combine. Hard pass on Trey Lance. If they don’t go with QB this year, you are really making it so you have to next year. Cousins should be gone after 2021, unless they painted themselves in a corner. If Spielman is the GM, then I suppose that’ll be the case.

 

[forever a gopher]

Spielman hasn't neglected the OL, but he has made poor choices in the draft. The last 3 years they've drafted OL in the first 2 rounds, and 4 years ago it was Elflein in the 3rd, who looked good until injuries derailed his career. The other picks were O'Neill who looks good, Bradbury who looks bad, and Cleveland looks much than Samia, who they also spent a 4th rounder on last year.

“Neglected” is probably a bad word choice. However, it’s been a glaring problem for his tenure, and it hasn’t been fixed. Maybe “ineptness” would be a better descriptor.

 

[MplsGopher]

And therein lies the crux. With Cousins, they can be a competitive team. If they have few injuries on D, they could be a 3-5 seed in the playoffs next year. But watching games that matter makes it very clear Cousins is not going to win you any/many big games. The top is probably winning a first round playoff game. Is that enough to keep the status quo? This team has been hovering around that for about as long as I can remember. Sure, it’s better than being the Bengals or Jets or some other garbage teams, but it also means they have little likelihood of achieving greatness. I find it staggering that anybody could argue otherwise about Cousins. He’s had many opportunities with different teams with different teammates. Yet, his teams always end up the same. It’s not all on Cousins. The OL has been ignored for basically Spielmans entire tenure. Zim gets way too many of “his guys” that eat up salary cap (see Harris and Barr) that don’t produce enough to warrant their big contracts. Bit without getting a QB, this team will never get there.

Hard for me not to think that every single Vikings fan alive today wouldn't sign a deal with the devil to average losing seasons over the next decade if it were guaranteed that one of the years would be a magical run to the Super Bowl with a 50/50 chance to win it, instead of averaging 9-10 wins a year with 5+ playoff appearances but no conference titles.

Where do I sign?

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Jalen Hurts is the real deal and Philly has their future QB.

 

[BleedGopher]

per Shooter:

The big unknown for Vikings rooters now is the mindset of team owners Zygi and Mark Wilf, how they will evaluate this non-playoff season. General manager Rick Spielman and coach Mike Zimmer are believed to have three-year contract extensions that begin next year.

Zygi, 70, after investing nearly $800 million in U.S. Bank Stadium and the team’s Eagan headquarters, for years has said his remaining goal is “to win the Lombardi Trophy.”

But it’s getting late. Zygi’s in his 16th season and isn’t close to achieving that goal. Is he still patient, or is he getting impatient?

The Wilfs need to decide whether the abysmal status quo is worth it for 2021. Or whether to try a quick-fix by hiring a new-look coach.

Word is Jim Harbaugh, who was a quick-fix coach for the San Francisco 49ers, leading them to three straight NFC championship games after taking the head job in 2011, then taking them to the 2013 Super Bowl, could be on the NFL market if he isn’t retained by the University of Michigan, where he has a year left on his contract and a big buyout.

Harbaugh, a 14-season NFL quarterback, is also considered a QB whiz who might be able to get the best out of the Vikings’ Kirk Cousins.

Charley Walters: Twins to name Toby Gardenhire manager of St. Paul Saints

Look for Toby Gardenhire to be named the first manager of the Minnesota Twins’ Triple-A affiliate St. Paul Saints. And while it’s certainly early, it’s not unreasonable to project Gardenhire, 38, s…

www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!

 

[BleedGopher]

Souhan: Sitting Dalvin Cook for season finale looks like best strategy for Vikings

So, Kirk Cousins was asked, what now?

What comes after you've officially fallen short of the playoffs for the second time in three years as Vikings quarterback? What comes after you've clinched Mike Zimmer's second losing season in seven swings as Vikings coach? What comes after your defense was utterly humiliated in record fashion for all the world to see on Christmas Day?

Kirk, for one, is channeling his inner Belichick. He's on to Detroit.

"Just get ready for Detroit, try to finish the season strong, put your best foot forward," he said after Friday's 52-33 loss at New Orleans.

That's fine just so long as Dalvin Cook's feet aren't involved in any way.

The best way to bury this injury-riddled, pandemic-hampered mess of a 2020 season is to make darn sure the face of the franchise doesn't start 2021 needing surgery and a lengthy rehab that threatens the few prime years the 25-year-old has left at running back.

Sit him.

Sitting Dalvin Cook for season finale looks like best strategy for Vikings

The Vikings should make sure their injury-prone star running back is ready for 2021 by not playing him in a meaningless finale.

www.startribune.com

Skol Vikes!!

 

[Ope3]

I have zero idea if this could happen, but thoughts on getting rid of Cousins (somehow?) and picking up Wentz?

No thanks. Worse contract and not as good as the Vikings status quo.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Jalen Hurts is the real deal and Philly has their future QB.

Jesus, I wouldn't bet on this with someone ELSE's money. You're going all-in on 54% completion percentage?

Only a fool would close the book on Wentz at this point. No QB in the league got hammered more than Wentz before Hurts took over, not close. Good grief, he's STILL been sacked more than 5 times more than anyone else in the league and he hasn't played in 3 weeks. Who in the hell isn't going to be gun-shy at that point?

The money is definitely a factor, so I guess anything's possible but from a pure talent and production standpoint, the two QB's are not close.

There's a saying in golf, any change works for 3 holes. Hurts has provided a spark, against the Taysom Hill-led Saints and a couple of not-so-stellar defenses in Arizona and Dallas, both losses. Hurts could very well work out and be a solid starter in the league, but from the various podcasts and deep-dive folks I've heard, it's been a little bit smoke-and-mirrors at this point, which you would expect.

I like his intangibles though, he's got composure and he's a leader, just not sure the rest of the toolbox is there yet.

 

[forever a gopher]

Jesus, I wouldn't bet on this with someone ELSE's money. You're going all-in on 54% completion percentage?

Only a fool would close the book on Wentz at this point. No QB in the league got hammered more than Wentz before Hurts took over, not close. Good grief, he's STILL been sacked more than 5 times more than anyone else in the league and he hasn't played in 3 weeks. Who in the hell isn't going to be gun-shy at that point?

The money is definitely a factor, so I guess anything's possible but from a pure talent and production standpoint, the two QB's are not close.

There's a saying in golf, any change works for 3 holes. Hurts has provided a spark, against the Taysom Hill-led Saints and a couple of not-so-stellar defenses in Arizona and Dallas, both losses. Hurts could very well work out and be a solid starter in the league, but from the various podcasts and deep-dive folks I've heard, it's been a little bit smoke-and-mirrors at this point, which you would expect.

I like his intangibles though, he's got composure and he's a leader, just not sure the rest of the toolbox is there yet.

Way too early to tell with Hurts. If you look at a bunch of young QB's in the league, they can have success early in their career, before there is a solid scouting report on them. Then, when defenses have film to adjust to, they come back down to earth. This very much happened to Kap after his one good year. More recently, look at Wentz, Goff, Lamar Jackson, Garoppolo, etc. A lot of them had big success early, then came back down to earth shortly thereafter. Get back to me on Hurts at the end of next year, if he plays.

I can dig up the posts, but I was all-in on Hurts and the Vikes trading up in the second round to nab him. They had enough draft capital to do it, and enough left over to get additional pieces. A second round QB is making less money, so is a solid value play. If he doesn't pan out, you aren't as devastated as if a guy like Ponder, at pick 12 busts and you've already gone all-in on him. I think he has the tools, we'll see if he pans out.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

On the defensive depth chart - I strongly suspect the only reason they picked up Ngakoue was that they already knew Hunter was out for the year. I don't buy Zimmer's "tweak" nonsense for a minute.

on Cousins - there are stats and then there is the eye test, and I don't think most fans believe Cousins passes the eye test. When things go bad, Cousins throws guys under the bus in a flash.

on the right team, Cousins could be a Super Bowl QB - but it would have to be a team with a really good offensive line, a strong running game, capable receivers - and a really strong defense.

off the top of my head, I'm not sure how many teams in the NFL fit that definition.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

On the defensive depth chart - I strongly suspect the only reason they picked up Ngakoue was that they already knew Hunter was out for the year. I don't buy Zimmer's "tweak" nonsense for a minute.

on Cousins - there are stats and then there is the eye test, and I don't think most fans believe Cousins passes the eye test. When things go bad, Cousins throws guys under the bus in a flash.

on the right team, Cousins could be a Super Bowl QB - but it would have to be a team with a really good offensive line, a strong running game, capable receivers - and a really strong defense.

off the top of my head, I'm not sure how many teams in the NFL fit that definition.

That's pretty much what the 2017 and 2019 Vikings were, minus the offensive line.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Jesus, I wouldn't bet on this with someone ELSE's money. You're going all-in on 54% completion percentage?

Only a fool would close the book on Wentz at this point. No QB in the league got hammered more than Wentz before Hurts took over, not close. Good grief, he's STILL been sacked more than 5 times more than anyone else in the league and he hasn't played in 3 weeks. Who in the hell isn't going to be gun-shy at that point?

The money is definitely a factor, so I guess anything's possible but from a pure talent and production standpoint, the two QB's are not close.

There's a saying in golf, any change works for 3 holes. Hurts has provided a spark, against the Taysom Hill-led Saints and a couple of not-so-stellar defenses in Arizona and Dallas, both losses. Hurts could very well work out and be a solid starter in the league, but from the various podcasts and deep-dive folks I've heard, it's been a little bit smoke-and-mirrors at this point, which you would expect.

I like his intangibles though, he's got composure and he's a leader, just not sure the rest of the toolbox is there yet.

LOL Shrek (Oger - get it) this is almost a good a quality post as the time you posted in early May that only ~5% of Americans would be wearing masks because their Freedumb was bein impinged; obviously not the case for Memorial Day or at any dates thereafter. A basic understanding of the population of the US and what % of that is concentrated in East Coast cities, where the denizens of generally have a higher education level, are more liberal and not so touchy regarding their "personal liberties."

Regardless, you're going to to all hardcore on a rookie who has stated a handful of game (3 methinks), way too small a sample size Shrek. It is considered statistically irrelevant at this juncture. My comment was based on his movement in the pocket, ability to throw on the run and his ability to gain yards on the ground, ala Lamar Jackson.

Your vitriolic defense of Wenz is hilarious. Is that because -

A You're Related - Unlikely
B Grew up in ND - Possibly
C You've Been Waiting in the Weeds to knock down that Ahole from NYC - ding, ding, we have a winner. The difference between us is that I realize when I am being one, Mucho Grande lol, and you dear boy, have no clue.

Wenz was not benched by me, but rather his HC, who has won a Super Bowl and considered a great offensive coach. Why, oh why, did he do this??? That's the question you should be focusing your energies on.

At the time of his benching, Wentz led the league in interceptions thrown (15), total turnovers (19), and sacks taken (50) - per Wikipedia. He is one of the least mobile QBs in the league and having a mobile QB helps with a less than stellar OLine. The trend in the league is for mobile QBs, surprised this wasn't cover in your deep-dive podcasts, lol - see Wilson, Jackson etc...You could also include Brees and Mahomes for how well they move and throw on the run, IMO.

His record as a starting QB is 35-33 - Yuck.

Regarding his completion %: Aikman's was 53% and Manning's was 56%, per pro football reference (Don't conflate that with me saying he'll have those kind of careers). The point is that basing your analysis on any rookie's completion % is inane, whether good or bad, especially after only three games.

Whether Wenz has another act in his NFL career is TBD at this point; unlikely it will be in Philly IMO, FWIW.

Happy New Year Shrek!

Oh and -

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

View attachment 11001

LOL Shrek (Oger - get it) this is almost a good a quality post as the time you posted in early May that only ~5% of Americans would be wearing masks because their Freedumb was bein impinged; obviously not the case for Memorial Day or at any dates thereafter. A basic understanding of the population of the US and what % of that is concentrated in East Coast cities, where the denizens of generally have a higher education level, are more liberal and not so touchy regarding their "personal liberties."

Regardless, you're going to to all hardcore on a rookie who has stated a handful of game (3 methinks), way too small a sample size Shrek. It is considered statistically irrelevant at this juncture. My comment was based on his movement in the pocket, ability to throw on the run and his ability to gain yards on the ground, ala Lamar Jackson.

Your vitriolic defense of Wenz is hilarious. Is that because -

A You're Related - Unlikely
B Grew up in ND - Possibly
C You've Been Waiting in the Weeds to knock down that Ahole from NYC - ding, ding, we have a winner. The difference between us is that I realize when I am being one, Mucho Grande lol, and you dear boy, have no clue.

Wenz was not benched by me, but rather his HC, who has won a Super Bowl and considered a great offensive coach. Why, oh why, did he do this??? That's the question you should be focusing your energies on.

At the time of his benching, Wentz led the league in interceptions thrown (15), total turnovers (19), and sacks taken (50) - per Wikipedia. He is one of the least mobile QBs in the league and having a mobile QB helps with a less than stellar OLine. The trend in the league is for mobile QBs, surprised this wasn't cover in your deep-dive podcasts, lol - see Wilson, Jackson etc...You could also include Brees and Mahomes for how well they move and throw on the run, IMO.

His record as a starting QB is 35-33 - Yuck.

Regarding his completion %: Aikman's was 53% and Manning's was 56%, per pro football reference (Don't conflate that with me saying he'll have those kind of careers). The point is that basing your analysis on any rookie's completion % is inane, whether good or bad, especially after only three games.

Whether Wenz has another act in his NFL career is TBD at this point; unlikely it will be in Philly IMO, FWIW.

Happy New Year Shrek!

Oh and -

View attachment 11002

Ummmm.... Okay?...

Moving on...

Really good article in The Athletic by Arif Hasan on what went wrong with the Vikings. He obviously highlights the woes and shortcomings on the defensive side of the ball, and rightfully so, but also a number of other things.

Why The Vikings Missed The Playoffs

About the only positive thing you can say about the defensive side of the ball is the young DL and secondary players that got major PT. Ooofff

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Ummmm.... Okay?...

Moving on...

Really good article in The Athletic by Arif Hasan on what went wrong with the Vikings. He obviously highlights the woes and shortcomings on the defensive side of the ball, and rightfully so, but also a number of other things.

Why The Vikings Missed The Playoffs

About the only positive thing you can say about the defensive side of the ball is the young DL and secondary players that got major PT. Ooofff

Thanks and the I signed up for the Athletic and love their Twins coverage and I'll check out that article.

Honest question -

Do you think we need to dump Zimmer, Spielman or both? I only get the Jets and Giants game out here - not in the budget to watch the Queens underperform on Sundays. So, I'm not sure and that's why I'm asking.

If you say dump, then why.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Thanks and the I signed up for the Athletic and love their Twins coverage and I'll check out that article.

Honest question -

Do you think we need to dump Zimmer, Spielman or both? I only get the Jets and Giants game out here - not in the budget to watch the Queens underperform on Sundays. So, I'm not sure and that's why I'm asking.

If you say dump, then why.

I would absolutely not dump Zimmer, or Spielman. The grass is not always greener, I think Zimmer is one of the better coaches in the league. Spielman has had his share of swings and misses like anyone else, far from perfect, but like anything else, where/who would you go?

Scary stat; Cousins just moved into FIFTH on the all-time Vikings list for QB games started. If that doesn't speak to the instability of the position, I don't know what does. I couldn't believe that, it seems like he just got to MSP. FIFTH most starts!!! Holy shit.

Fans can bitch about not addressing the QB position but when you reach for a QB, even out of the top 10, that's when you get selections like Christian Ponder and Dwayne Haskins. At least Spielman hasn't done that.

I don't get nearly as bent out of shape about the Vikings anymore, it's just not worth it. To top it off, I have season tickets for both the AZ Cardinals and LV Raiders now so I'm not nearly as emotionally invested in the Vikings anymore. Still a big fan, but it doesn't ruin my afternoon when they lose, not even close.

The games next weekend are going to be huge for determining the Vikings 2021 draft fate. They could be drafting as high as 7-9 if they lose, as low as 16-17 if they win. That top 10 range could certainly be a prime candidate to pick a franchise QB if they love one of the guys left for them.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Zimmer is a bit of a two-edged coin.

on the one hand, he has definitely produced some very solid defensive teams until this year.

but, he is also responsible for an offensive philosophy that seems out of step with where the game is heading.

I suspect that Zimmer has already hit his ceiling by making the NFC Championship game. I just don't see the Vikes ever winning a Super Bowl with Zimmer (or Cousins)- unless everything lined up perfectly.

 

[MplsGopher]

No thanks. Worse contract and not as good as the Vikings status quo.

Wow, no kidding. Didn't realize his contract was that bad.

Straight up trade Cousins for Wentz, if Wentz will voluntarily agree to rework it for less money? I'm not sure why Philly would want that. He's an even more known commodity in the NFC East.

 

[Ope3]

Wow, no kidding. Didn't realize his contract was that bad.

Straight up trade Cousins for Wentz, if Wentz will voluntarily agree to rework it for less money? I'm not sure why Philly would want that. He's an even more known commodity in the NFC East.

I don't know if reworking the money is even an option. Only would be worth taking a flier if is salary was in the $10-12 million range. He's scheduled to make 3X that.

 

[MplsGopher]

I don't know if reworking the money is even an option. Only would be worth taking a flier if is salary was in the $10-12 million range. He's scheduled to make 3X that.

But so is Cousins. I don't know if Cousins will win us more games than Wentz would, or would lose us less games than Wentz would.

I'm sure that both Cousins and Wentz would want to start, somewhere.

It would only hypothetically work (and as you said, I don't even know if this could be a thing) if:
- Wentz wants out of Philly now that he has been replaced by Hurts going forward, and is willing to sign a new contract overriding the old one for much less money
- Vikings want Wentz, but only if they can find someone to take Cousins (underwhatever terms Cousins and the new team can agree to)
- another team wants Cousins and will give up something reasonable
- three way trade

 

[Ope3]

But so is Cousins. I don't know if Cousins will win us more games than Wentz would, or would lose us less games than Wentz would.

I'm sure that both Cousins and Wentz would want to start, somewhere.

It would only hypothetically work (and as you said, I don't even know if this could be a thing) if:
- Wentz wants out of Philly now that he has been replaced by Hurts going forward, and is willing to sign a new contract overriding the old one for much less money
- Vikings want Wentz, but only if they can find someone to take Cousins (underwhatever terms Cousins and the new team can agree to)
- another team wants Cousins and will give up something reasonable
- three way trade

That's a lot of hypotheticals for a QB that has struggled to even be mediocre since he tore his ACL.

 

[coolhandgopher]

But so is Cousins. I don't know if Cousins will win us more games than Wentz would, or would lose us less games than Wentz would.

I'm sure that both Cousins and Wentz would want to start, somewhere.

It would only hypothetically work (and as you said, I don't even know if this could be a thing) if:
- Wentz wants out of Philly now that he has been replaced by Hurts going forward, and is willing to sign a new contract overriding the old one for much less money
- Vikings want Wentz, but only if they can find someone to take Cousins (underwhatever terms Cousins and the new team can agree to)
- another team wants Cousins and will give up something reasonable
- three way trade

You’d have to be really certain that Wentz would bounce back to take on his contract; right now he’s a worse version than Cousins, and his 4 year extension begins next season. I’d rather take a shot with Jameis Winston (although the preference would be drafting and developing).

 

[MplsGopher]

To clarify, my motivation is like this: offload Cousins and his huge contract, because they aren't going to get us to the Super Bowl, use Wentz as a filler, draft a QB, let him develop.

Obviously that means Wentz has to sign a new contract. We would never do this under his current terms, that would be worse than Cousins.


You can argue that Wentz would balk at being right back in his current situation in a couple years .... but what other choice does he realistically have? And maybe he bounces back better than anyone could predict. Maybe being back "home" (as close to Bismarck as he's going to get) would revitalize him.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Dalvin Cook will not play against Detroit. his father died.

dad was 46 yrs old - but apparently had severe issues with diabetes.

this game is meaningless. sit Cousins, play the backup QB, and go for the better draft pick.