All Things 2020 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

[forever a gopher]

It's impossible to NOT cheer for Bridgewater, he's clearly a great guy, great teammate, and an inspirational story really. But as a starting QB, he clearly has limitations. It will be interesting to see how the Panthers treat their QB position moving forward. That will tell you all you need to know. The Panthers are clearly pretty locked into rolling with him for next year due to his 3-yr deal and the dead money owed next year.

There are two major things going against mid-lower tier QB's like Bridgewater; in just the last couple years, the caliber of QB's coming out of college has been SUPER high and doesn't look to be going the other way anytime soon. Secondly, veteran contracts vs rookie contracts. Teams in the future are going to be much more likely to roll the dice on a promising young QB on a rookie contract than a known "average" caliber QB on a $25-$35M/year deal. It's probably one of the main reasons the Cowboys have never signed Prescott to the deal he wants.

Good post. The level of QB play has gone up considerably in the past 5 years or so. Increased QB competency in tandem with rule changes that greatly favor QBs and offenses, means if you don’t have “the” guy, it’s harder to overcome than in the past. Especially when serviceable qb’s are getting paid crazy money, thus hampering your salary cap without exceptional play. When Teddy was drafted, he probably could have been a good enough QB on a team with enough weapons and/or a good defense. I would no longer say that.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

My view on the Vikes remains unchanged. they will manage to win enough games to finish in the middle of the pack - maybe get to have one playoff game - and wind up with a middle-of-the-pack draft pick. not good enough to contend for a title, and not bad enough to get the best young talent.

that is how a team gets stuck in the middle. and if the NFL lowers the salary cap for next year, the Vikes could really be in a crunch.

 

[MplsGopher]

My view on the Vikes remains unchanged. they will manage to win enough games to finish in the middle of the pack - maybe get to have one playoff game - and wind up with a middle-of-the-pack draft pick. not good enough to contend for a title, and not bad enough to get the best young talent.

that is how a team gets stuck in the middle. and if the NFL lowers the salary cap for next year, the Vikes could really be in a crunch.

If every lower team acquires talent good enough to move into contention, then you can't persist in the middle forever. Eventually, you'll move to the bottom.

We still have enough talent to be in the middle, at least. Would say upper middle.

 

[Ope3]

Good post. The level of QB play has gone up considerably in the past 5 years or so. Increased QB competency in tandem with rule changes that greatly favor QBs and offenses, means if you don’t have “the” guy, it’s harder to overcome than in the past. Especially when serviceable qb’s are getting paid crazy money, thus hampering your salary cap without exceptional play. When Teddy was drafted, he probably could have been a good enough QB on a team with enough weapons and/or a good defense. I would no longer say that.

In the NFC, the last 3 QBs to go to the Super Bowl are Foles/Philly, Goff/LA and Garoppalo/SF. If those guys can get there, certainly Bridgewater can as well in the right situation.

 

[howeda7]

True, it can work both ways. Dallas might also have been a win with a real home field advantage.

It's also part of what I was referring to earlier with "anything can happen" this year in the playoffs. Any team that just gets in the the Tournament can do serious damage. 3 road games in a row? So what. Though in nasty January weather a dome/southern climate team could be disadvantaged.

The NFC lacks a great team. Any team that makes the play-offs {NFC East excepted) could win the conference. But whoever does will likely lose the Chiefs/Steelers.

 

[howeda7]

Yes ... but the losing Cowboys and Carolina seemed to have figured something out, in this regard??

Stack the box. There's nothing to figure out. Force Cousins to beat you. He played well enough in both games to do it, but the defense couldn't hold up their end against Dallas.

 

[howeda7]

My view on the Vikes remains unchanged. they will manage to win enough games to finish in the middle of the pack - maybe get to have one playoff game - and wind up with a middle-of-the-pack draft pick. not good enough to contend for a title, and not bad enough to get the best young talent.

that is how a team gets stuck in the middle. and if the NFL lowers the salary cap for next year, the Vikes could really be in a crunch.

The Vikings have mostly lived picking middle or lower for the past 35 years. They're one of the most consistently successful franchises in that time, winning Super Bowls excepted.

 

[howeda7]

If every lower team acquires talent good enough to move into contention, then you can't persist in the middle forever. Eventually, you'll move to the bottom.

We still have enough talent to be in the middle, at least. Would say upper middle.

If Zim is back, I expect the defense to be much better next year with Pierce, Hunter and Barr back and improvement from the rookies.

 

[Plausible Deniability]

If Zim is back, I expect the defense to be much better next year with Pierce, Hunter and Barr back and improvement from the rookies.

This is what I've been thinking as well. Adding those 3 and the continued development of some guys who are getting a lot of PT this year on all 3 levels, DL, LB and the secondary, will go a long ways for this team.

 

[MplsGopher]

Stack the box. There's nothing to figure out. Force Cousins to beat you. He played well enough in both games to do it, but the defense couldn't hold up their end against Dallas.

Almost couldn't hold up against Carolina, as well. They did just enough, but that's what matters in the end.

 

[MplsGopher]

If Zim is back, I expect the defense to be much better next year with Pierce, Hunter and Barr back and improvement from the rookies.

Will all those be back? Should they all (mainly talking about Pierce and Barr)? Can we afford all? Gotta pay Wilson and Harris too.

 

[howeda7]

Will all those be back? Should they all (mainly talking about Pierce and Barr)? Can we afford all? Gotta pay Wilson and Harris too.

Well they are all under contract so I assume so, especially Pierce and Hunter. Possibly they would cut Barr in order to keep Wilson instead. They probably can't afford to keep Harris again. He is a FA.

 

[MplsGopher]

They've developed the crap out of Dantzler, Gladney, and Boyd. They haven't done jack with Metellus.

They have no answer at safety if Harris leaves = sign a FA. So why not just try to sign Harris, then?? They have to. Get rid of Barr if need be, should've let him walk, way overpaid and we don't need him. Wilson and Kendricks are plenty good and we do more 4-2-5 than 4-3 anyway. Plus Dye has been in there for 3rd LB and done ok.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Have to know what the salary cap is going to be for next year before making any key personnel decisions.

Found this in an article at nfl.com:

Introduced for the 1994 NFL season, the salary cap traditionally increases on a year-to-year basis and has only decreased one time: 2011, the year of the NFL lockout. In fact, over the past seven seasons, the league has seen its salary cap per club increase by no less than $10 million per year; since 2012, the cap for each club has risen from $120.6 million to $198.2 million in 2020. Over the Cap estimates the 2021 salary cap will be $176 million, a decrease of $22.2 million or 11.2 percent from 2020.

Over the cap also projects what each team will have for cap space going into 2021. If the cap is set at $176-million, the Vikes would be 24th out of 30 teams in cap space.

if the cap does go down, teams will put a premium on young talent that is under team control at a reasonable salary. Veterans with pricey contracts could be in trouble - facing a decision between taking a lower salary or getting released.

 

[howeda7]

They've developed the crap out of Dantzler, Gladney, and Boyd. They haven't done jack with Metellus.

They have no answer at safety if Harris leaves = sign a FA. So why not just try to sign Harris, then?? They have to. Get rid of Barr if need be, should've let him walk, way overpaid and we don't need him. Wilson and Kendricks are plenty good and we do more 4-2-5 than 4-3 anyway. Plus Dye has been in there for 3rd LB and done ok.

They could have drafted AW Jr. He'd be a good Harris replacement....

 

[howeda7]

Have to know what the salary cap is going to be for next year before making any key personnel decisions.

Found this in an article at nfl.com:

Introduced for the 1994 NFL season, the salary cap traditionally increases on a year-to-year basis and has only decreased one time: 2011, the year of the NFL lockout. In fact, over the past seven seasons, the league has seen its salary cap per club increase by no less than $10 million per year; since 2012, the cap for each club has risen from $120.6 million to $198.2 million in 2020. Over the Cap estimates the 2021 salary cap will be $176 million, a decrease of $22.2 million or 11.2 percent from 2020.

Over the cap also projects what each team will have for cap space going into 2021. If the cap is set at $176-million, the Vikes would be 24th out of 30 teams in cap space.

if the cap does go down, teams will put a premium on young talent that is under team control at a reasonable salary. Veterans with pricey contracts could be in trouble - facing a decision between taking a lower salary or getting released.

While a lower cap may force guys like Harris and Barr out, it will also mean other veterans will be available for cheap to replace them.

 

[forever a gopher]

While a lower cap may force guys like Harris and Barr out, it will also mean other veterans will be available for cheap to replace them.

This. It is my understanding that most NFL teams are right up against the cap. So the Vikes wouldn’t be an outlier- almost all teams would be in the same boat. Harris is being grossly overpaid this year. If you can’t get him for cheap next year, sign a cheaper vet or draft his replacement in the third round. Competent safeties can be had in the mid rounds.

 

[forever a gopher]

In the NFC, the last 3 QBs to go to the Super Bowl are Foles/Philly, Goff/LA and Garoppalo/SF. If those guys can get there, certainly Bridgewater can as well in the right situation.

Foles took over for Wentz, who through 13 games was 11-2 and was at the top of the MVP consideration. Foles then went on to throw for 323 yds/ game and 72% completion in the playoffs, which were by far the best of his career. The SB year Goff threw for 4600 yards and 32 tds. Garappolo threw for 4000 yards and 70% completion. Not sure the point you’re trying to make. They all had darn good QB performances the year they went to the super bowl. I’m assuming you’re suggesting Teddy has it in him to replicate those type of stats. You’re entitled to your opinion, but I would say the likelihood of that is slim. I’m not crapping on Teddy; but to suggest he is anything but an average (at best) starting QB is silly. In 45 career NFL starts, he has 52 TD’s.

 

[MplsGopher]

This. It is my understanding that most NFL teams are right up against the cap. So the Vikes wouldn’t be an outlier- almost all teams would be in the same boat. Harris is being grossly overpaid this year. If you can’t get him for cheap next year, sign a cheaper vet or draft his replacement in the third round. Competent safeties can be had in the mid rounds.

Like corners? They've come a long ways, but they had their woes early on.

And we did already, Metallus.

 

[Plausible Deniability]

They could have drafted AW Jr. He'd be a good Harris replacement....

Time will tell, but OT Ezra Cleveland could very well turn out to be much more important to this Vikings team than AW Jr would be, not to mention wouldn't everyone have crushed Spielman and Zimmer yet again for taking defense again in the draft, after taking Gladney in the 1st? Of course they would

 

[Plausible Deniability]

Rumblings continue that Hunter wants to either restructure his contract to be one of the highest, if not the highest, paid defensive player in the game or will request a trade.

Losing him would be probably disastrous but one would think the return haul would be fairly respective? Hopefully this is more smoke than fire.

 

[howeda7]

Time will tell, but OT Ezra Cleveland could very well turn out to be much more important to this Vikings team than AW Jr would be, not to mention wouldn't everyone have crushed Spielman and Zimmer yet again for taking defense again in the draft, after taking Gladney in the 1st? Of course they would

I'd trade Gladney for AW jr. right now though.

 

[howeda7]

Rumblings continue that Hunter wants to either restructure his contract to be one of the highest, if not the highest, paid defensive player in the game or will request a trade.

Losing him would be probably disastrous but one would think the return haul would be fairly respective? Hopefully this is more smoke than fire.

Call his bluff. He's coming off a major injury. No one is giving him a massive long-term deal until he proves he's healthy.

 

[forever a gopher]

Call his bluff. He's coming off a major injury. No one is giving him a massive long-term deal until he proves he's healthy.

I think he still has leverage due to his age and position. I think the only thing more coveted than a star edge rusher is a QB. Still the possibility that they could sign and trade. Didn’t Seattle get a bunch from KC for a sign and trade for Frank Clark in a similar situation?

 

[Plausible Deniability]

Don't look now but...

In the last 5 weeks, the Vikings are 4-1 with road wins at Green Bay and Chicago, and Kirk Cousins? During that span of games....

- 1st in the NFL in passer rating (124.3)
- 2nd in the NFL in touchdown to interception ratio (12-1)
- 3rd in the NFL in completion percentage (72.4)
- 3rd in the NFL in touchdown passes
- 5th in the NFL in net passing yards per attempt (8.6)

 

[howeda7]

Don't look now but...

In the last 5 weeks, the Vikings are 4-1 with road wins at Green Bay and Chicago, and Kirk Cousins? During that span of games....

- 1st in the NFL in passer rating (124.3)
- 2nd in the NFL in touchdown to interception ratio (12-1)
- 3rd in the NFL in completion percentage (72.4)
- 3rd in the NFL in touchdown passes
- 5th in the NFL in net passing yards per attempt (8.6)

The magic of Gary Kubiak. He made Matt Schaub look like a Pro Bowler, squeezed an 8-8 record out of Trevor Simien and a Super Bowl out of the withered husk of Peyton Manning. Cousins is better than all of the above.

 

[MplsGopher]

Here is the quandary for me:
- Cook has been unquestionably incredible. We lost Seattle in big part because he went out of the game. He then largely won the @Green Bay and Detroit games, particularly the former.
- Chicago has a great run defense and were hellbent on stopping him, which they did. Fine
- ..... but the last two games. Cook has been largely absent. I'm sure he picked up a few key first downs in each game, and/or had a few other important runs. But he definitely did not win the game last week, and if we had won against Dallas it would've been the same story.

So what's the correct take about this team, its offensive identity, and how Kubiak is guiding us?

Is Cook vital, even without the stats to back it up, or not?


It just seems more scary to have your #1 guy on offense, the guy that drives the ship and makes it work, being a RB rather than QB. They're more likely to get hurt.

 

[howeda7]

Here is the quandary for me:
- Cook has been unquestionably incredible. We lost Seattle in big part because he went out of the game. He then largely won the @Green Bay and Detroit games, particularly the former.
- Chicago has a great run defense and were hellbent on stopping him, which they did. Fine
- ..... but the last two games. Cook has been largely absent. I'm sure he picked up a few key first downs in each game, and/or had a few other important runs. But he definitely did not win the game last week, and if we had won against Dallas it would've been the same story.

So what's the correct take about this team, its offensive identity, and how Kubiak is guiding us?

Is Cook vital, even without the stats to back it up, or not?


It just seems more scary to have your #1 guy on offense, the guy that drives the ship and makes it work, being a RB rather than QB. They're more likely to get hurt.

Cook still matters. The Broncos with Kubiak could turn guys like CJ Anderson and Olandis Gary into 1,000 yard rushers, as I'm sure the Vikings could do with Alex Mattison. It doesn't mean they weren't better when they had Terrell Davis.

 

[MplsGopher]

Cook still matters. The Broncos with Kubiak could turn guys like CJ Anderson and Olandis Gary into 1,000 yard rushers, as I'm sure the Vikings could do with Alex Mattison. It doesn't mean they weren't better when they had Terrell Davis.

Right.

In a perfect world, it would be nice to slice off a piece of the money that Cook and Cousins are pulling in, to pay for more defense.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Can't remember where I read this, but apparently Cousins grades out the highest on play-action passes.

Play-action doesn't work without the threat of a running game. take Cook out of the equation, and defenses will play Cousins differently.

If you don't have a RB who is a legitimate threat, then you need a mobile QB who can make plays with his feet. That ain't Kirk.

Beyond that, the Vikes' whole system is based on a run-first offense with play-action passing. If you get rid of Cook, then Cousins probably has to go, followed by Zimmer - because Zimmer is the one pushing for the run-first offense.