It's not a SF debate, its a basketball and numbers debate. With the current roster they will play with another so-called 4 & center over the course of a game.
All Things 2014 Basketball Recruiting Thread
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It's not a SF debate, its a basketball and numbers debate. With the current roster they will play with another so-called 4 & center over the course of a game.
Winasota Gopher
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I know who they are... I was replying to the 5 guys for 3 positions comment that we've all witnessed debated and beaten like a dead horse. At the center of all of those conversations is "well we can just have one of Buggs/Martin/King play that position on the floor"... It's a very tired conversation and I'm not excited to see it dragged into another thread.
Winasota Gopher
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Wait, what?! You're telling me that those guys won't magically be turned into SF when they step onto the court?!! They will still be so-called 4's?? NBA 2k13 disagrees with you!
And I don't understand your point. If Buggs played on the court at the same time as another 4 absolutely one of them would assume the role of sf or 3 for sake of running the offense. You wouldn't have 2 guys running the 4s options in the offense, one would absolutely be doing the thinks the other wings were doing if they were on the court...
It is odd how the perspectives among some basketball fans about appropriate positions for a player appear to be more rigid than they are for fans in some other sports. If a guy gets switched from a quarterback to primarily playing as a running back, receiver, or tight end at some point in his college career I never hear football fans arguing about that. Nobody would think anything of a right tackle being switched to guard. If an outfielder gets moved to first base or a different outfield position, I don't see that generate much controversy among baseball fans.
I would imagine that quite a few college small forwards frequently played center or power forward on their prep teams.
WanderingGopher
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Sure that could happen if we were out of bodies, but I don't think Pitino desires that in any way, shape or form. That is why I still wonder if there might be one more roster change coming. Otherwise, the back to back signings of Diedhou and Konaly with our "last 2 scholarships" didn't make a lot of sense to me from a 2014 roster perspective. The other possibility is that the staff is emphasizing the long term over 2014 and willing to roll with what we have next year even knowing how thin we are at the 2/3.
I don't see any reason Buggs or Martin can't fill in at the 3 every now and then, they can shoot the three, stretch defenses a bit with their size, what they don't do real well is handle the ball, they had better be very prepared to face a press with that type of offensive personnel in the game, defensively the stretch 2-3 zone is made for that type of a lineup, can't see them playing a man though.
Winasota Gopher
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Can we please move this conversation about one of our 4s filling in at the 3 to one of the other 6 threads about it?
Do we have any more recruiting in 2014 to discuss?
Do we have any more recruiting in 2014 to discuss?
Definitely. Hopefully they sent out messages to posters using multiple user names to attack others.
Now lets get back to 2014 recruits!
What more is there to talk about on the subject? The evidence points to that book being closed. Now those recruits are players and we'll have to wait and see how good or not good they are.
march madness
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?
Buggs can shoot the three, not sold Martin will be taking a lot of 3's havent heard that's part of his game.
Buggs can shoot the three, not sold Martin will be taking a lot of 3's havent heard that's part of his game.
The (6) recruits and the possibility of adding one more. I guess you can stop opening the tread if it's a book being closed.
RoyalGopher
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No more schollies
howieramone
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I know it's nearing the bottom of the ninth and we do not officially have a tender available, but I would be surprised if we don't still sign a wing. A sprained ankle, bout of the flu, or even early foul trouble would cause us to scramble. An experienced wing could get us off the bubble, and even a Mav or Chip signing should allow us to keep the rotation intact.
Winasota Gopher
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Howie
How would you play out the minutes today with the 5 guy rotation with thinking that our 5 Guards exclusively play the 1,2 and 3 positions?
You've got 120 minutes to dole out for
Math - 30
Hollins - 30
McNeil - 25
Mason - 15
Morris - 20
I'm not too afraid of that type of minutes from these guys. However, as you said, sprain/flu/fouls make that equation ugly really fast. A martin/Joey/Buggs for 5 to 10 minutes might help lessen the blow.
Also if Morris turns into more of a 30 minute guy (I know you hate him, not pushing buttons) it would make it easier as well.
howieramone
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I think your minutes look good. To nitpick, I would say 5 minutes less for McNeil and Mason. Mason could be the wildcard?
SelectionSunday
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At this point I can't see McNeil being a 25-minutes-per-game guy. Assuming the Gophers don't land Justin Martin, hunch is Mathieu, Hollins, and Morris will gobble up major minutes at the 1-3, with McNeil, Buggs, and Mason fighting for what's left. Agree with Howie that we really need another wing, but even so I have to believe Pitino wouldn't have brought Morris in unless he thought he could immediately play major minutes.
Winasota Gopher
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Agreed, I originally put 20/20/20 for the youngsters and then thought that McNeil might get more minutes at the 3 and a few minutes at the 2 where Mason would almost exclusively get his minutes backing up Math and a little bit of Dre.
Mason and Morris are definitely the wild cards. IF we don't sign a wing (which I dont think we will, but agree with you we should find a way to get one) those two will have to be reliable enough to play 30 minutes in some games the way Math and Hollins like to foul.
Interestingly enough, Math/Hollins both averaged 30 minutes a game last year despite their foul woes. One would hope that with some planning and coaching up, they could learn to be less foul prone and increase that AVERAGE a few minutes to lessen the need for contributions from the other three. In games where the seniors stay out of foul trouble I could see them getting 35+ minutes with a 1 to 2 minute breather in the second half and efficient use of TOs.
Everyone cross their fingers and wear rabbits feet all offseason for good luck on keeping all the guards healthy all season long.
I know we were after some guys around the same time as when Lofton signed, but do we have any more evidence that says we are actively recruiting?? I keep reading people say "I wouldn't be surprised if we sign another wing and Buggs transfers". Is this just pure speculation at this point??? If so I really don't understand where this idea comes from at this point.
Also aside from Martin, does an experienced wing exist?? And I would 100% rather have Buggs potential on my team than push him out for a freshman mav or freshman Oto type, particularly with a team that already has 5 incoming freshman. Those signings will not help us win.
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WanderingGopher
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Eh, bottom of the sixth or top of the seventh, I'd say.
Some guys always become available over the summer. Some kids graduate after summer 1 or summer 2 session (depends on school) and will announce as grad transfer. Other stuff happens. And don't forget the coaching carousel isn't over -- with so many NBA teams still looking and the $ getting bigger and bigger, I'll bet at least one big name from college goes pro...I'd put my money on Ollie, but could be Hoiberg, Izzo, Calipari, or someone else. Any time there's a coaching change that always triggers a chain reaction of other coaching changes, and there are always a few players that become available.
GophersOnTheRise
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Am I the only one stumped as to why there is no news on Justin Martin? Can't even seem to find as much as a rumor on Twitter. You would think even if he decided to remain at Xavier someone would have tweeted that.
We are losing: Mav 9.6 min, Ellenson 6.9 min, Smith 19.0 min, Oto 18.4 min and Austin 33.1 min. Lots of these minutes were junk minutes. By the end of the year, it was really Oto and Austin contributing important minutes…so really to improve as a team…we just have to replace those minutes.
Deandre averaged 30.1 playing more in close games, Andre averaged 30.5 also playing more in close games. Buggs averaged 6.7 and McNeil 9.7 (much more at the end of the year after he had improved).
We have 5 guys coming in that can play (and Lofton sitting out). While PF was our problem area last year, with two PF's coming in and only Oto moving on, that problem has been solved. C was a question at the beginning of last year but EE and Mo made that an area of strength and we have Konate who will provide insurance policy minutes that will prevent EE and Mo having to play as much when they are injured a bit (an perhaps turn a minor injury into a bigger one).
That leaves the guards….Morris will eat up most of Austin's minutes, McNeil will increase his average significantly as he provided some valuable minutes by the end of the year. Mason will probably average at a minimum 10….Our weakest spot may very well be the SF this year…but no matter what we are not wasting nearly as many scholarships as we did last year so it is impossible to not see us as a stronger team next year. And after a year of watching Pitino coach, I think we will all once again be very pleasantly surprised at how well these new recruits are playing by the end of the year. It is going to be a blast to watch!
Deandre averaged 30.1 playing more in close games, Andre averaged 30.5 also playing more in close games. Buggs averaged 6.7 and McNeil 9.7 (much more at the end of the year after he had improved).
We have 5 guys coming in that can play (and Lofton sitting out). While PF was our problem area last year, with two PF's coming in and only Oto moving on, that problem has been solved. C was a question at the beginning of last year but EE and Mo made that an area of strength and we have Konate who will provide insurance policy minutes that will prevent EE and Mo having to play as much when they are injured a bit (an perhaps turn a minor injury into a bigger one).
That leaves the guards….Morris will eat up most of Austin's minutes, McNeil will increase his average significantly as he provided some valuable minutes by the end of the year. Mason will probably average at a minimum 10….Our weakest spot may very well be the SF this year…but no matter what we are not wasting nearly as many scholarships as we did last year so it is impossible to not see us as a stronger team next year. And after a year of watching Pitino coach, I think we will all once again be very pleasantly surprised at how well these new recruits are playing by the end of the year. It is going to be a blast to watch!
Winasota Gopher
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I'm nitpicking, but I'm saying it because I think its a common error. The bolded part is an incorrect statement. The last 15 games of the season McNeil averaged almost exactly 10 minutes per game. If you did just the last 8 when we were in B1G 10 championship and NIT games, he was even less (8 mpg).
So the idea that McNeil earned more minutes as the season progressed is an incorrect statement. He did play well, don't get me wrong I like the kid and think he has potential, but his increase in playing time came alot from the distribution of Andre Hollins minutes when he got hurt in the Wisconsin game. McNeil played 10+ minutes 8 out of the next 10 games when Hollins went down. He did not play his way into increased minutes as the season progressed.
Edit : Much of what I typed was correct, however, one error that I have to admit is that Andre only missed 3 games, he went right back to playing 30+ mpg against Purdue 3 games after Wisconsin. So McNeil did see a brief period of playing more minutes while Andre was healthy. Still relevant to note that once the team got into more competitive and do or die ball, he went back to 10 minutes or less.
Agreed! Further to your point- after adjusting for games not played- Oto averaged 15 minutes, Wally 1.6 minutes and Mav 7 minutes.
Blitzkrieg
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Can anyone share how ESPN graded our recruiting hall in the B1G? It was for those with an Insider account.
GopherJake
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Good point regarding Mav and Blocked-Three-Pointer-From-Behind-Into-the-Top-of-His-Head Guy. But Oto was injured.
I'm pretty sure I've seen you mention this like three or four different times. I don't even remember this happening, did it happen a lot when he was in? Just by how few minutes he played I can't imagine it happened all that much. The only on-court Wally moment that sticks in my mind was a reverse dunk he did that was pretty cool.
Gopherguy0723
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We were 9th and got a B-.
I think it happened one time his freshmen year!
Math can kill >>
Ellenson averaged 6.9 minutes in the games he played <><> over the season of 38 games his average per game would be <> 62 minutes / 38 games = 1.6 minutes per game...
Austin played in all 38 games so his season average is correct>> careful not to mix apples and oranges I guess...
Buggs 107 / 38 = 2.8 minutes
McNeil 293 / 38 = 7.7 minutes
Osenieks 569 / 38 =14.9 minutes
2013-14 Team Totals as of Thu, Apr 03, 2014
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/minn/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2013-14/stats/season_stats.pdf
Ellenson averaged 6.9 minutes in the games he played <><> over the season of 38 games his average per game would be <> 62 minutes / 38 games = 1.6 minutes per game...
Austin played in all 38 games so his season average is correct>> careful not to mix apples and oranges I guess...
Buggs 107 / 38 = 2.8 minutes
McNeil 293 / 38 = 7.7 minutes
Osenieks 569 / 38 =14.9 minutes
2013-14 Team Totals as of Thu, Apr 03, 2014
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/minn/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2013-14/stats/season_stats.pdf
I stand corrected…playing more junk minutes at the beginning of the year…however, he did get better IMO