8 wins is unrealistic

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
How do you not get that the 9-4 record was based on a weak schedule? How do you not get that 2015's schedule was significantly stronger?

Yes, replacing 11-2 TCU, 3-9 Kent St, 8-5 Ohio, 12-1 Ohio St, and 10-3 Michigan with 4-8 Oregon St, 4-7 FCS Indiana St, 11-3 Penn St, 6-7 Maryland, and 2-10 Rutgers is 'similar'. You've got to be kidding me.
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Not according to people who actually analyze strength of schedule.

I know that you like to make up new standards to argue your pet agendas, but you don't get to say that 9-4 sucks on the one hand, and on the other hand say that the records are all that matters. Common sense and logic don't work that way.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Not according to people who actually analyze strength of schedule.

I know that you like to make up new standards to argue your pet agendas, but you don't get to say that 9-4 sucks on the one hand, and on the other hand say that the records are all that matters. Common sense and logic don't work that way.
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So you can honestly say the schedule this year was harder than last years?
 


dpodoll68 said:
Not according to people who actually analyze strength of schedule.

I know that you like to make up new standards to argue your pet agendas, but you don't get to say that 9-4 sucks on the one hand, and on the other hand say that the records are all that matters. Common sense and logic don't work that way.
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I'm not making anything up and my post is complete common sense. But sure some obscure 'teamrankings.com' is the standard when you're trying to make things up.

I also never said 9-4 sucks. All I've ever said is the wins were against mediocre or bad teams which is 100% fact. I see once again you fail to understand logic.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
How do you not get that the 9-4 record was based on a weak schedule? How do you not get that 2015's schedule was significantly stronger?

Yes, replacing 11-2 TCU, 3-9 Kent St, 8-5 Ohio, 12-1 Ohio St, and 10-3 Michigan with 4-8 Oregon St, 4-7 FCS Indiana St, 11-3 Penn St, 6-7 Maryland, and 2-10 Rutgers is 'similar'. You've got to be kidding me.
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Why don't you look at the rest of the games too? Or is playing Wisconsin at madison = to playing Wisconsin in MN?
 


bottlebass said:
Why don't you look at the rest of the games too? Or is playing Wisconsin at madison = to playing Wisconsin in MN?
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My original post included the records of all the teams played. The one you quoted was strictly based off of the differences is the schedule. Is playing an Iowa team that went 12-2 in Iowa City = to playing an Iowa team that went 8-5 at home?
 

bottlebass said:
Why don't you look at the rest of the games too? Or is playing Wisconsin at madison = to playing Wisconsin in MN?
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Why don't you? Playing Iowa at home = playing Iowa at Iowa City?

Hasn't mattered where the Wisconsin game is, double digit losses.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
My original post included the records of all the teams played. The one you quoted was strictly based off of the differences is the schedule. Is playing an Iowa team that went 12-2 in Iowa City = to playing an Iowa team that went 8-5 at home?
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Nope but that is my point exactly.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The records of the opponents played speak for themselves.
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Don't think combined records really is a great reflection of overall difficulty. Imagine two teams with ten game schedules. The first faces three teams that end up 10-0 and the other seven end up 3-7. Overall record 51-49. The other team faces seven 7-3 teams and three 0-10 teams, overall 49-51. Who has the harder schedule?


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Oregon Gopher said:
Don't think combined records really is a great reflection of overall difficulty. Imagine two teams with ten game schedules. The first faces three teams that end up 10-0 and the other seven end up 3-7. Overall record 51-49. The other team faces seven 7-3 teams and three 0-10 teams, overall 49-51. Who has the harder schedule?
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If the records of the two schedules were that close, I would agree with you. But they're not. We're comparing a .493 winning percentage to .623, it's not even in the same ballpark.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
And the leadership failures you think of with Coyle are mostly made up in your mind. Telling.
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No need to make it up when Coyle and kaler do stupid things repeatedly and provide cover for themselves at every turn.

Your stubborn streak regarding Coyle leads me to believe you must be related to him in some way. No other explanation.
 



Guys - this isn't hard.
Records matter when it supports your point. They don't matter when they don't. And, only some matter when there is conflicting info or when your argument is falling apart.


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BarnBurner said:
Your stubborn streak regarding Coyle leads me to believe you must be related to him in some way. No other explanation.
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I have suggested the same. GWG defends him like a son. He is literally the only person I am aware of that defends MC. I honestly don't think there is another explanation


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bottlebass said:
It is completely obvious you weren't attending games anyway. Basically since the invention of the jumbo tron anyway where at every single game they highlight the great community service the team provides.

So yes, you are obviously a troll.

As far as the culture change, I agree there needs to be a culture change. But it isn't with the football team as a whole. It is with the university top down who support treating students like they are guilty until proven innocent.
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Admins, can we ban this person already? He's repeatedly name calling which is against the terms of using this site.
 

Spoofin said:
Guys - this isn't hard.
Records matter when it supports your point. They don't matter when they don't. And, only some matter when there is conflicting info or when your argument is falling apart.
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My argument is falling apart? You really think last year's schedule was just as difficult as 2015? Based on what?
 

BarnBurner said:
No need to make it up when Coyle and kaler do stupid things repeatedly and provide cover for themselves at every turn.

Your stubborn streak regarding Coyle leads me to believe you must be related to him in some way. No other explanation.
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Yet I've said that I understand why people would take issue with Kaler. Some of his comments were wrong. Most of your issues with Coyle are not based on fact.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
My argument is falling apart? You really think last year's schedule was just as difficult as 2015? Based on what?
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No. This year's schedule was easier. The whole proving our 9-4 record wasn't good based on other teams' records is where things fall apart. Do records matter or don't they matter? As I said - some seem to and some don't. Pick and choose.


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Nice to see the "alternative facts" trend is alive and well here too.
 

Sagarin rankings have 2016 final team rankings at 25, 2015 was 64, 2014 was 38.
Schedule rank 2016 was 65, 2015 was 43, 2014 was 43
 

Spoofin said:
No. This year's schedule was easier. The whole proving our 9-4 record wasn't good based on other teams' records is where things fall apart. Do records matter or don't they matter? As I said - some seem to and some don't. Pick and choose.
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Where am I picking an choosing? I've never said 9-4 didn't matter. I've always said look at the record of the teams they beat. Look at the record vs rivals and ranked teams. It's not good. How is that saying records don't matter?
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Yet I've said that I understand why people would take issue with Kaler. Some of his comments were wrong. Most of your issues with Coyle are not based on fact.
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Facts are something you are selective about. Coyle is a Dunder head and demonstrated abysmal leadership while covering his own a$$ and lying for months.

And you won't admit it.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Where am I picking an choosing? I've never said 9-4 didn't matter. I've always said look at the record of the teams they beat. Look at the record vs rivals and ranked teams. It's not good. How is that saying records don't matter?
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You play the teams on your schedule. Nothing more.

Nine wins at Minnesota is a big deal no matter the opponent.
 

In the end, Fleck may not win 8 games in 2017 here at Minnesota. Fleck may never win 8 games in a single season here at Minnesota. Maybe he can win 8 games at Minnesota...maybe he won't. No matter what, I am sure he is trying to turn the University, the city of Minneapolis and the state of Minnesota into a KZOO two if that is not too difficult for him to do. With Fleck: you get KZOO and WMU all rolled into one if you are into elite and row the boat.

He will have to show me Big Ten wins before I could ever consider being impressed by his dog and pony show. An elite result shows me an elite coach, elite staff, elite players, an elite team and a plan that has been devised, executed and completed. Mere talk is not elite. To me, in fact, IF Coach Fleck turns the U of M and Minneapolis and the state of Minnesota into a carbon copy of KZOO, MI and WMU too, he will have failed miserably. I don't want WMU #2 and KZOO used slogans, mantra/chants and hand-me-downs. I want a good, solid, hard-nose, football team that competes in Big Ten Play EVERY game, win or lose. And in the Big Ten Conference there will be some losses. I wish him good fortune. I wish him well. I also wish he wasn't such a self-promo machine. Talk doesn't impress me much. Big Ten Wins are the only TRUTH when it comes to football coaches and their tenure at Big Ten Universities. In the end: all a coach has to stand on is his actual Big Ten Record when comparing him/her to other Big Ten Coaches. Words and talk don't count. The Record will be what the record will be. There is NO arguing the Big Ten Record. No spins...No alternative facts...the Big Ten record is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.


Time will tell IF Fleck is capable of building a team here at Minnesota that is capable of winning 8 games. Perhaps comparing him to TC's 9-4 season is not fair for a young coach like Fleck. Perhaps his hype has exceeded his capabilities at this point in his career...just ask Michigan and tOSU in 2016 about getting to the Big Ten Championship Game. tOSU PROVED it is easier to play in the College Playoff Series than it is to play in the Big Ten Championship game. Coach Kill played in the MAC championship game. He didn't play in the Big Ten Championship Game.

So I can see why the biggest Fleck supporters are backtracking a bit and are working to lower expectations for the first year...or two...or three for Coach Fleck. Coming into the Big Ten is a REAL challenge for a coach. And, even if he never makes that 8 win mark coaching in the Big Ten, I guess I wouldn't think any the less of him than I do right now, before he has ever coached a game in Big Ten Play here at Minnesota... I just really hope he doesn't transport too much of KZOO and WMU tradition and culture and talk into the Golden Gopher Football Program. But, that's just me, I am sure...
 


imthewalrus said:
To me, in fact, IF Coach Fleck turns the U of M and Minneapolis and the state of Minnesota into a carbon copy of KZOO, MI and WMU too, he will have failed miserably. I don't want WMU #2 and KZOO used slogans, mantra/chants and hand-me-downs. I want a good, solid, hard-nose, football team that competes in Big Ten Play EVERY game, win or lose. And in the Big Ten Conference there will be some losses.
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1. They aren't WMU slogans, they are PJ Fleck slogans.
2. Who said the two things are mutually exclusive? Why can't Minnesota be a good, solid, hard-nose, football team that uses the Row The Boat mantra?
 

Try to play good, solid, hard-nosed Big Ten WINNING football while you are singing an "elite version of ROW, ROW, the BOAT..." and using an oar or a paddle for a cute little prop.

I also do NOT want the U of M Football Team to be known as the: "...p. j. fleck Golden Gophers, Row the boat...SKI-U-MAH football team..." The guy is ALL about himself.

Maybe, IF he starts winning enough Big Ten Football Games with University of Minnesota Student Athletes playing for the University of Minnesota Football team, I will begin to take him a bit more seriously. But, right now he is selling pj fleck 24 hours a day, every day...and I am not willing to buy his story. That's just me. I was around for "the Lou Hoax" dog and pony show. Now THAT guy was a LOT better at what he sold people than anything I've heard from this fleck character. He had 60,000 plus coming to Gopher Football Games. He didn't actually win that many Big Ten Football games....but he MADE the program compete during the 1 11/12ths seasons he coached the U. And then, he took a job at Notre Dame and did more HARM to the program by abandoning it than any other single human being has ever done.

Fleck has got to prove his worth by being competitive in Big Ten Play. NOT boat rowing. NOT by trying to make the term elite just another common-place, every day code-word. And, beware ANY college who hires a coach that sells himself harder than he sells the school. That is a shallow and dangerous path to travel. When I hear elite and row the boat...I think of WMU...and you think of p.j. fleck. I am NOT a fleck flocker...I am not part of fleck's followers. I am a University of Minnesota Golden Gopher Football Fan. I have lived through a Gopher NC. I will NEVER become a die-hard Fleck Flocker. IF he is any good...he will be gone...and if he is NO good...I don't want to be stuck with Fleck-gear that reads "ELITE..." or "RTB" or has cute little crossed paddles on it. I am a GOPHER fan and don't want my team being mixed up with WMU in KZOO teams OR Fleck-ball. Give me Maroon & GOLD good, solid, hard-nosed FOOTBALL no matter who the foolish administrators bring in to coach the team.

There is really very little else to say right now until the team starts playing football this fall. THEN we will see what we will see and as they post the scores for the Big Ten GAmes...it will be evident just what p j fleck brought to the table for the 2017 Big Ten Football Season. Until then: "don't take any wooden nickles..." and don't buy too many "flecker's flockers" shirts with...or without collars..." Beat the stinking badger, GOPHER!
 

gopherswinagn said:
Probably the most stupid ****ing thing that's ever said been on here. Can you people please STOP with the Claeys is GOD bull**** and Fleck sucks. It really doesn't ****ing matter what you think or what you say their is a new coach. Take it or get the eff out



Ok junior, you win.

I said what I wanted to say for now and there really isn't 't much to talk about until Big Ten Season kicks off.
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