6 years with Coach Fleck

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restovich said:
And yet a number of posters will be saying that we settle for mediocrity!

I had season tickets all through school 1978-1983 (six years). That period looked more like mediocrity than this does!

Ski-u-mah
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That was a rough patch for sure. Mike Hohensee was a bright spot and we had some good players but that got pretty ugly fast after he left.
 







FanSinceTheFifties said:
Fleck has done well with the players willing to play in Minneapolis. I think he's done as well as can be done here.
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Why in the world would you say that?

This right here is my problem with some folks on this board. My dad feels the same way. He thinks what Fleck has done is the ceiling and he's actually surprised by what he's done.

Why do people here (I actually live in Ca. now BUT I'm still a Minnesotan at heart!) feel this way? Why do we not 'feel' we can do better? Why can we not be better than Wisconsin and Iowa, or at least match what they do?
 

PJ 26-26 in the B1G.

For comparison here are the other coaches in the West minus the newbies.

Bielema 46-26 .638
Chryst 43-18 .704
Frost 10-26 .266
Fitz 65-76 .460
Ferentz 115-83 .580
Brohm 26-25 .509
 

DanvilleGopher said:
Why in the world would you say that?

This right here is my problem with some folks on this board. My dad feels the same way. He thinks what Fleck has done is the ceiling and he's actually surprised by what he's done.

Why do people here (I actually live in Ca. now BUT I'm still a Minnesotan at heart!) feel this way? Why do we not 'feel' we can do better? Why can we not be better than Wisconsin and Iowa, or at least match what they do?
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I mean our 2019 season was pretty well in line with many of Iowa and Wisconsin's best years, and a 9 win season is average to good for those guys too. We have won more games than Wisconsin over the last 5 years and won 4 fewer games than Iowa in the last 5 years, with 3 of that 4 win difference being in 2020.

We aren't miles behind these programs like people want to believe. If PJ is here for many more years we are going to have a lot of good years, and some down years sprinkled in. I don't know how anyone can look at PJ's tenure here and say that it has not been very successful relative to reasonable expectations.
 




Gophers1992 said:
I mean our 2019 season was pretty well in line with many of Iowa and Wisconsin's best years, and a 9 win season is average to good for those guys too. We have won more games than Wisconsin over the last 5 years and won 4 fewer games than Iowa in the last 5 years, with 3 of that 4 win difference being in 2020.

We aren't miles behind these programs like people want to believe. If PJ is here for many more years we are going to have a lot of good years, and some down years sprinkled in. I don't know how anyone can look at PJ's tenure here and say that it has not been very successful relative to reasonable expectations.
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So we're at our ceiling?
 

I am very happy with where PJ has brought the team. With the recruiting obstacles we face, I can see why folks would say that consistent 8-9 win seasons with an occasional ranking is the reasonable "top." I believe, however, that PJ has a higher ceiling here. He has--kind of remarkably--produced consecutive 9-win seasons with (1) a uni-dimensional, predictable offense (probably because of personnel) and (2) a very solid defense, which is great at limiting scoring and yardage--but isn't a disruptive force. That is, our defense, though really effective, is well below (or far below) the FBS average for sacks, tackles for loss, pick sixes, blocked kicks, etc.

If PJ's incremental movement toward increased athletic/skill levels (not 5*s, just more high 3*s and lower 4*s that actually produce) pays off in the next few years, I think we will see a more balanced offense capable of taking "what the defense gives you," and more capable of explosive plays (which can put games out of reach and/or bring you back from point deficits quickly). And we might see our excellent defense move up a notch from world-class "stoppers" to true "disruptors." That kind of improvement, which I believe is PJ's ultimate game plan, could put PJ in the consistent 10-11 win range, which would be fantastic.

Maybe not next year, with OSU, Michigan and North Carolina on the docket--and possible coaching change surges at Nebraska and Wisconsin. But I believe it is coming.
 
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DanvilleGopher said:
Why in the world would you say that?

This right here is my problem with some folks on this board. My dad feels the same way. He thinks what Fleck has done is the ceiling and he's actually surprised by what he's done.

Why do people here (I actually live in Ca. now BUT I'm still a Minnesotan at heart!) feel this way? Why do we not 'feel' we can do better? Why can we not be better than Wisconsin and Iowa, or at least match what they do?
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The issue isn't matching what Iowa and Wisconsin can do. I think most feel that is very attainable and something to shoot for. Heck in a lot of ways we have already started doing that we just have to sustain the success the way they have.

The reality is that at a place like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa....if you can win 8-9-10 games, be in the mix for your division/conference and get a good bowl game you are pretty much at the realistic ceiling for those programs. You might have the outlier year where you exceed that and will also at times have the stinkers where you fall short.

Those that see striving for that as accepting mediocrity are looking at things through the lens of success meaning you are on par with the programs like Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia....The reality is that it will be very difficult, if not impossible for programs like Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota to get to those levels on any sort of regular basis outside of the magical year here and there. We will always be fighting an uphill battle against those helmet school programs in recruiting hotbeds with tons of high level talent right in their backyard.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The issue isn't matching what Iowa and Wisconsin can do. I think most feel that is very attainable and something to shoot for. Heck in a lot of ways we have already started doing that we just have to sustain the success the way they have.

The reality is that at a place like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa....if you can win 8-9-10 games, be in the mix for your division/conference and get a good bowl game you are pretty much at the realistic ceiling for those programs. You might have the outlier year where you exceed that and will also at times have the stinkers where you fall short.

Those that see striving for that as accepting mediocrity are looking at things through the lens of success meaning you are on par with the programs like Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia....The reality is that it will be very difficult, if not impossible for programs like Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota to get to those levels on any sort of regular basis outside of the magical year here and there. We will always be fighting an uphill battle against those helmet school programs in recruiting hotbeds with tons of high level talent right in their backyard.
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Add in that any coach that has a magical year is usually coaching at a new school soon thereafter.

It's crazy think that for any Gopher fan under the age of 60 this is the best football stretch you can remember.
 

327 Academic All-BIG. If my math is correct that's...............hang on, let me count...............a lot.

No idea about other teams, but that is impressive.
 

I hear all this, but it is still bittersweet when we lose games we should win which could make these good seasons great.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
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A few other stats:
  • An 11-win season
  • A final ranking inside the top 10
  • 3 wins over Wisconsin
  • 0 scandals off the field
If you'd shared all the 6-year stats above with the board on the day PJ was hired, I bet most people would've taken it. Still, there's been some disappoinment along the way, including 6 losses to Iowa, 3 runner-up finishes in the West that EASILY could've been championships, and some baffling/frustrating decisions on the field. The bar has been raised, and people now accuse others of accepting mediocrity when they're not pissed about a 9 win season. Think about that.
 

DanvilleGopher said:
Why in the world would you say that?

This right here is my problem with some folks on this board. My dad feels the same way. He thinks what Fleck has done is the ceiling and he's actually surprised by what he's done.

Why do people here (I actually live in Ca. now BUT I'm still a Minnesotan at heart!) feel this way? Why do we not 'feel' we can do better? Why can we not be better than Wisconsin and Iowa, or at least match what they do?
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Because the Badgers and Hawkeyes play in college towns that seem to appeal more to 5Stars than does a pro town. Because we've seen six decades of mediocre performance with two brief periods of above average performance (Mason and Fleck) Because Minnesota is the State of Hockey not football. Because Minneapolis is farther from talent-rich areas than any other Big Ten school.

Nevertheless, I've enjoyed following the Gophers since the 50s but never more than these last few years because nearly every week, I can hope for a win. This was only true once before (Mason) after about the mid 60s.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
Because the Badgers and Hawkeyes play in college towns that seem to appeal more to 5Stars than does a pro town. Because we've seen six decades of mediocre performance with two brief periods of above average performance (Mason and Fleck) Because Minnesota is the State of Hockey not football. Because Minneapolis is farther from talent-rich areas than any other Big Ten school.

Nevertheless, I've enjoyed following the Gophers since the 50s but never more than these last few years because nearly every week, I can hope for a win. This was only true once before (Mason) after about the mid 60s.
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The Badgers and Hawkeyes are recruiting at the same level on paper that we are under Fleck. None of our programs are landing 5* guys outside of very rare occasions. Our recruiting classes on paper are right in line with everyone in the Big Ten outside of the Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State crowd.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
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The NFL Draft in April will be his 6th since he took over in 2017. Fleck will have a minimum of two more players drafted in April. Fleck is a victim of his own success. Gopher fans crave a West division crown, would love to see it in the next 2-3 years.
 




Fitz at 0.460 is the "asterisk* coach and staff" for their breakout seasons where it all just comes together.

For us so far in the first 6 years, 2019 is the best we've got. Co-West Champions at best for us and not making it to Indianapolis. Over time Northwestern has just done intermittently more with sustained less. Befuddling at times...
 

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