2nd-year coaches update (W-L records)

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Are there reports now? I just heard of the one report, we'll see what happens with that, doesn't sound super legit from what I've read. Leach did wonders at TT.

You think the administration at either WSU or TT cares much about whether or not any of the allegations are true? Bottom line, fact or fiction, he's making the school and the program look bad, or at least casting the school in a poor light. At this point, the truth doesn't matter a whole lot unfortunately. Fair or unfair, it looks like he's doing things at WSU, similar to what he may or may not have done at TT, that have brought a TON of negative attention to the school and the program.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Kill's record as an FBS coach is only slightly better, he never won a conference, the Big East is still better then the Mac. Kill has never won a bowl game either. It was a easier situation for Kill to win right away at Northern Illinois too, he inherited some good players. Yeah he took over a 2 win team, but they had winning seasons the previous 7 years, Joe Novak had a decent program in place. Edsall Had only been coaching Uconn for a season before they made the move to fbs, and it's not like they were a powerhouse of a FCS team.

So, are you simply ignoring the conference record argument? My position is that I would rather have someone who has built programs and give him a shot over a known, mediocre at best, quantity at the 1 A level. 7 years in the Big East and a 22-26 record speaks volumes.

 

[btowngopher]

So, are you simply ignoring the conference record argument? My position is that I would rather have someone who has built programs and give hem a shot over a known, mediocre at best, quantity at the 1 A level. 7 years in the Big East and a 22-26 record speaks volumes.

Conference record argument? Yeah I'm ignoring Jerry Kill's 4-10 big10 record. Yes big10>big east, but big east>mac. I don't know. I think Edsall built a pretty solid program on a bigger stage then Jerry Kill has to this point. You guys act like the Big East was on the level of the sun belt after miami, vt, and bc left. 22-26 isn't amazing, but hey he won the conference twice. You don't see Syracuse having success, you don't see temple having success, we'll see if UMASS does anything, Rutgers has never won the conference, Pitt has much more history and UConn has the same amount of conf titles since they arrived. USF hasn't won the conference. So hell I think Uconn has done quite well for being a new program in a region that's anything but a college football hotbed. They've outperformed other schools in the big east that should have advantages over them. Look I'm not even arguing that I'd rather have Edsall, I just find it funny that people think what he did at Uconn is so much less impressive then what Kill has done in his career.

 

[highwayman]

Comparing Kill at Northern Illinois and Edsall at Connecticut is apples and oranges. Kill took a program that was already really good and kept it at a high level (it had started to slip under Novak, but it was hardly a rebuilding project). Edsall took a program that was in the FCS and transitioned it into the Big East.

To simply look at their W-L records without any consideration of context is lazy at best.

A better comparison might be what Kill did at Southern Illinois, but even then the context is drastically different because Southern Illinois never aspired to be anything more than an FCS program.

Here are the predecessors to Kill and Edsall. Judge for yourself who was in decline and who was in the upswing...

Joe Novak (before Kill):
1996 Northern Illinois 1–10 6th
1997 Northern Illinois 0–11 0–8 6th (West)
1998 Northern Illinois 2–9 2–6 5th (West)
1999 Northern Illinois 5–6 5–3 T–2nd (West)
2000 Northern Illinois 6–5 4–3 T–3rd (West)
2001 Northern Illinois 6–5 4–3 T–2nd (West)
2002 Northern Illinois 8–4 7–1 T–1st (West)
2003 Northern Illinois 10–2 6–2 T–2nd (West)
2004 Northern Illinois 9–3 7–1 T–1st (West) W Silicon Valley
2005 Northern Illinois 7–5 6–2 T–1st (West)
2006 Northern Illinois 7–6 5–3 T–3rd (West) L Poinsettia
2007 Northern Illinois 2–10 1–6 6th (West)
Northern Illinois: 63–76 47–38
Total: 63–76

Connecticut
Tom Jackson (prior to Skip Holtz):
1983 Connecticut 5–6 4–1 1st
1984 Connecticut 3–8 1–4
1985 Connecticut 4–5 1–4
1986 Connecticut 8–3 5–2 1st
1987 Connecticut 7–4 5–2
1988 Connecticut 7–4 4–4
1989 Connecticut 8–3 6–2 1st
1990 Connecticut 7–4 6–2
1991 Connecticut 3–8 2–6
1992 Connecticut 5–6 4–5
1993 Connecticut 6–5 5–3
Connecticut: 62–57 43–35

Skip Holtz (before Edsall):
1994 Connecticut 4–7 4–4 3rd (NE)
1995 Connecticut 8–3 5–3 2nd (NE)
1996 Connecticut 5–6 3–5 4th (NE)
1997 Connecticut 7–4 4–4 T–2nd (NE)
1998 Connecticut 10–3 6–2 T–1st (NE)
Connecticut: 34–23 22–18

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Conference record argument? Yeah I'm ignoring Jerry Kill's 4-10 big10 record. Yes big10>big east, but big east>mac. I don't know. I think Edsall built a pretty solid program on a bigger stage then Jerry Kill has to this point. You guys act like the Big East was on the level of the sun belt after miami, vt, and bc left. 22-26 isn't amazing, but hey he won the conference twice. You don't see Syracuse having success, you don't see temple having success, we'll see if UMASS does anything, Rutgers has never won the conference, Pitt has much more history and UConn has the same amount of conf titles since they arrived. USF hasn't won the conference. So hell I think Uconn has done quite well for being a new program in a region that's anything but a college football hotbed. They've outperformed other schools in the big east that should have advantages over them. Look I'm not even arguing that I'd rather have Edsall, I just find it funny that people think what he did at Uconn is so much less impressive then what Kill has done in his career.

btown-

To quote Warden Norton, "why are you being so obtuse?" Or do you just not get it? This has NOTHING to do with Jerry Kill's current Big Ten record and everything to do with Randy Edsall's Big East record. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? I thought I laid out my position pretty clearly. I did not want Edsall because he had a career losing record in the Big East. Those are facts. After Edsall's monumentally disasterous debut season in College Park, we learned that he is also a complete Jack@ss, yet another reason I am happy we did not hire him. Any other ways you can attempt to twist this debate? And yes, the Big East is terrible. I can go down the list of any conference and start naming teams that have not won a conference title the last ten years like you did with the Big East. What does that prove?

 

[Gopherprof]

Here are the predecessors to Kill and Edsall. Judge for yourself who was in decline and who was in the upswing...

Joe Novak (before Kill):
1996 Northern Illinois 1–10 6th
1997 Northern Illinois 0–11 0–8 6th (West)
1998 Northern Illinois 2–9 2–6 5th (West)
1999 Northern Illinois 5–6 5–3 T–2nd (West)
2000 Northern Illinois 6–5 4–3 T–3rd (West)
2001 Northern Illinois 6–5 4–3 T–2nd (West)
2002 Northern Illinois 8–4 7–1 T–1st (West)
2003 Northern Illinois 10–2 6–2 T–2nd (West)
2004 Northern Illinois 9–3 7–1 T–1st (West) W Silicon Valley
2005 Northern Illinois 7–5 6–2 T–1st (West)
2006 Northern Illinois 7–6 5–3 T–3rd (West) L Poinsettia
2007 Northern Illinois 2–10 1–6 6th (West)
Northern Illinois: 63–76 47–38
Total: 63–76

Connecticut
Tom Jackson (prior to Skip Holtz):
1983 Connecticut 5–6 4–1 1st
1984 Connecticut 3–8 1–4
1985 Connecticut 4–5 1–4
1986 Connecticut 8–3 5–2 1st
1987 Connecticut 7–4 5–2
1988 Connecticut 7–4 4–4
1989 Connecticut 8–3 6–2 1st
1990 Connecticut 7–4 6–2
1991 Connecticut 3–8 2–6
1992 Connecticut 5–6 4–5
1993 Connecticut 6–5 5–3
Connecticut: 62–57 43–35

Skip Holtz (before Edsall):
1994 Connecticut 4–7 4–4 3rd (NE)
1995 Connecticut 8–3 5–3 2nd (NE)
1996 Connecticut 5–6 3–5 4th (NE)
1997 Connecticut 7–4 4–4 T–2nd (NE)
1998 Connecticut 10–3 6–2 T–1st (NE)
Connecticut: 34–23 22–18

But...again....Edsall took a team in the FCS and transitioned them to a BCS conference. You think if he had stayed in the FCS that his record wouldn't have been slightly better?

The NIU stats are slightly misleading as well. Throw out the first three years under Novak, when he was rebuilding the program (and therefore it was nothing like the one Kill inherited) and you have a 60-46 program. NIU was already very competitive in the MAC before Kill got there.

 

[e.bigelow]

Conference record argument? Yeah I'm ignoring Jerry Kill's 4-10 big10 record. Yes big10>big east, but big east>mac. I don't know. I think Edsall built a pretty solid program on a bigger stage then Jerry Kill has to this point. You guys act like the Big East was on the level of the sun belt after miami, vt, and bc left. 22-26 isn't amazing, but hey he won the conference twice. You don't see Syracuse having success, you don't see temple having success, we'll see if UMASS does anything, Rutgers has never won the conference, Pitt has much more history and UConn has the same amount of conf titles since they arrived. USF hasn't won the conference. So hell I think Uconn has done quite well for being a new program in a region that's anything but a college football hotbed. They've outperformed other schools in the big east that should have advantages over them. Look I'm not even arguing that I'd rather have Edsall, I just find it funny that people think what he did at Uconn is so much less impressive then what Kill has done in his career.

Yes, the year he won the conference in 2010, he went to the Fiesta Bowl and took a shellacking from Oklahoma 48-20. His overall record that year was 8-4 before going to the Fiesta Bowl. I specifically remember CFB analysts on ESPN saying that year how the Fiesta Bowl wanted to bring in an at large team that year but couldn't due to the tie in with the Big East because they didn't want UConn there for the reason of them not being competitive. The other year he went "5-2" in the Big East in 2008, he got beat by Wake Forest in the Meinike (sp?) Car Care Bowl 28-10.

I guess what I'm saying is, I am just not impressed with Edsall, never have been, never will be. And, the fact that he really isn't having any success at Maryland when there previous HC left a pretty decent program in place helps further my lesser opinion of him as a Head Coach. That's all. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[lakesgopher]

Yes, the year he won the conference in 2010, he went to the Fiesta Bowl and took a shellacking from Oklahoma 48-20. His overall record that year was 8-4 before going to the Fiesta Bowl. I specifically remember CFB analysts on ESPN saying that year how the Fiesta Bowl wanted to bring in an at large team that year but couldn't due to the tie in with the Big East because they didn't want UConn there for the reason of them not being competitive. The other year he went "5-2" in the Big East in 2008, he got beat by Wake Forest in the Meinike (sp?) Car Care Bowl 28-10.

I guess what I'm saying is, I am just not impressed with Edsall, never have been, never will be. And, the fact that he really isn't having any success at Maryland when there previous HC left a pretty decent program in place helps further my lesser opinion of him as a Head Coach. That's all. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I agree with what you're saying, my only question is...were you impressed with what kill did before coming to Minnesota? I know I wasn't, i had never heard of jerry kill before he became our coach. the majority had t heard of him either.

I really don't see much difference between Edsall and kill. Both are good coaches but I don't think either of them are "elite." I just won't be the guy that dislikes a coach so much that I hope he fails so I'm right and can tell everyone "I told you so."

 

[50PoundHead]

I'm fine with Kill. Can't prove the negative, so it's hard to tell if Edsall would have been better or not. That said, I was disappointed when Edsall turned us down and the job fell to Kill. That doesn't mean I don't like Kill. I wanted Hoke or Golden, so after they eliminated themselves, I just wanted them to end up with a decent coach and it looks like we have.

 

[e.bigelow]

I agree with what you're saying, my only question is...were you impressed with what kill did before coming to Minnesota? I know I wasn't, i had never heard of jerry kill before he became our coach. the majority had heard of him either.

I really don't see much difference between Edsall and kill. Both are good coaches but I don't think either of them are "elite." I just won't be the guy that dislikes a coach so much that I hope he fails so I'm right and can tell everyone "I told you so."

Fair enough. I am certainly not one to be an "I told you so" sort of person even though it is sort of coming across that I am. Your right, neither coaches are "elite". I have just never been a fan of Edsall.

My opinion on him is that he won the Big East with a mediocre team at best, when typical teams, such as West Virginia and Cincinnati, when Brian Kelly left circa 2010, were having down years. I would liken it to the possibility of (although won't happen) Indiana winning the B1G Ten Leaders division this year with OSU and Penn State out for sanctions. I know that is a little bit of a strech though. I know he is just taking advantage of the opportunity given him, and, albeit, won a couple Conference titles, but still. I am just feeling that, quite frankly, of the AQ conference, the Big East is, BY FAR, the worst. He just never really beat anyone outside of average South Carolina one year in a bowl game, 2006 or 2007 I believe? I would even argue coach Kill's NIU team the year he left would beat Edsall's last years UConn team.
But, I digress.

So, I guess my point is that I really consider the Big East just slightly above, but not much, MAC in terms of football quality. Especially now with teams like Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia leaving, or having left the conference already.

 

[beatles]

It's clear that wherever Leach is coaching there is some sort of drama off the field crap going on. I think that's the LAST thing our program needed when we were making our hire. And after watching Edsall take Maryland backwards in two years I'm very thankful we didn't hire him as well.

 

[lakesgopher]

It's clear that wherever Leach is coaching there is some sort of drama off the field crap going on. I think that's the LAST thing our program needed when we were making our hire. And after watching Edsall take Maryland backwards in two years I'm very thankful we didn't hire him as well.

Personally I think we screwed up by not going after sumlin in a very aggressive fashion. If we want to have the pissing match of who we should have hired, sumlin was the guy I hoped for the most and so far looks like a guy we could have had but didn't get

 

[lakesgopher]

That being said kill is fine and I hope he has great success, I'm not a kill hater

 

[GophersInIowa]

With all the media attention he's gotten lately for not being hired, I think we should have brought in Phil Jackson. He seems to be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[GopherInPittsburgh]

Personally I think we screwed up by not going after sumlin in a very aggressive fashion. If we want to have the pissing match of who we should have hired, sumlin was the guy I hoped for the most and so far looks like a guy we could have had but didn't get

Sumlin knew what he had going on at Houston. Keenum was going to be a senior and he knew they were poised for a great season which would position him for a helmet school coaching job.

 

[btowngopher]

btown-

To quote Warden Norton, "why are you being so obtuse?" Or do you just not get it? This has NOTHING to do with Jerry Kill's current Big Ten record and everything to do with Randy Edsall's Big East record. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? I thought I laid out my position pretty clearly. I did not want Edsall because he had a career losing record in the Big East. Those are facts. After Edsall's monumentally disasterous debut season in College Park, we learned that he is also a complete Jack@ss, yet another reason I am happy we did not hire him. Any other ways you can attempt to twist this debate? And yes, the Big East is terrible. I can go down the list of any conference and start naming teams that have not won a conference title the last ten years like you did with the Big East. What does that prove?

Yes I am being obtuse...how dare I think Edsall's FBS accomplishments are anything close to what Jerry Kill has accomplished. How could one possibly think winning the big east twice is in the same atmosphere as the monumental task of making a recently competitive mac team competitive again? I like Kill, I hope he succeeds here, but lets not go overboard with his FBS accomplishments.

 

[Rosemountian]

If you think that Kill is far and away a better coach than edsall, I wonder why The market paid him almost double the salary.

I didn't even say edsall was a better coach. I said I would have rather had him.


We will see which coach is still employed in 2.5 years. 50/50 who gets fired first I think.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Yes I am being obtuse...how dare I think Edsall's FBS accomplishments are anything close to what Jerry Kill has accomplished. How could one possibly think winning the big east twice is in the same atmosphere as the monumental task of making a recently competitive mac team competitive again? I like Kill, I hope he succeeds here, but lets not go overboard with his FBS accomplishments.

You are being obtuse and your reading comprehension is lacking. Where have I said that Kill is a better coach? Where have I compared what Edsall did at UConn to what Kill did at NIU? I did neither. You are confusing my argument with that of others. I made the point that I would rather take a coach with a track record of improving his teams at each stop as opposed to taking a coach who had a losing record in seven seasons in the Big East. Nowhere did I "go overboard" with Kill's FBS accomplishments.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

If you think that Kill is far and away a better coach than edsall, I wonder why The market paid him almost double the salary.

I didn't even say edsall was a better coach. I said I would have rather had him.


We will see which coach is still employed in 2.5 years. 50/50 who gets fired first I think.

Is this addressed to me? I would rather have Kill and I bet Edsall gets fired first.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

It's completely a non-issue at this point. Kill is the coach and I'd be absolutely shocked if he's not coaching this team in 2016 and beyond, barring something health-related. Like it or not, that's pretty much the way it is. I think this team likely wins 8-9 games in 2013, as many or more the following year when this year's sophomores are Seniors, so it would take a lot of dominoes to fall for Kill not to be here for at LEAST the next 4+ years.

Sometimes "fit" means a lot more than overall coaching acumen, et al. To some people, Kill is a lot better fit for this school, at this time, than many of the other candidates that were being courted at the time.

Interesting, it was shortly after the Illinois game this weekend that it occurred to me, the Illinois win was probably a somewhat painful win for a very small contingent of Gopher "fans" (ones who would prefer Kill to fail). I would imagine those folks took little satisfaction in watching the Gophers grind out an ugly win on the road.

 

[btowngopher]

It's completely a non-issue at this point. Kill is the coach and I'd be absolutely shocked if he's not coaching this team in 2016 and beyond, barring something health-related. Like it or not, that's pretty much the way it is. I think this team likely wins 8-9 games in 2013, as many or more the following year when this year's sophomores are Seniors, so it would take a lot of dominoes to fall for Kill not to be here for at LEAST the next 4+ years.

Sometimes "fit" means a lot more than overall coaching acumen, et al. To some people, Kill is a lot better fit for this school, at this time, than many of the other candidates that were being courted at the time.

Interesting, it was shortly after the Illinois game this weekend that it occurred to me, the Illinois win was probably a somewhat painful win for a very small contingent of Gopher "fans" (ones who would prefer Kill to fail). I would imagine those folks took little satisfaction in watching the Gophers grind out an ugly win on the road.

I think this is the case more often then not.

 

[btowngopher]

You are being obtuse and your reading comprehension is lacking. Where have I said that Kill is a better coach? Where have I compared what Edsall did at UConn to what Kill did at NIU? I did neither. You are confusing my argument with that of others. I made the point that I would rather take a coach with a track record of improving his teams at each stop as opposed to taking a coach who had a losing record in seven seasons in the Big East. Nowhere did I "go overboard" with Kill's FBS accomplishments.

I just don't think it's a strong argument that his big east record is some huge negative. He had been coaching the team for 5 years, only 4 of which at the fbs level before entering the big east. He went 6-12 with one bowl game the first 3 years and 16-12 with 2 conf titles and 4 bowl games the last 4 years. I don't think his losing conf record would've lasted had he stayed.

 

[btowngopher]

You think the administration at either WSU or TT cares much about whether or not any of the allegations are true? Bottom line, fact or fiction, he's making the school and the program look bad, or at least casting the school in a poor light. At this point, the truth doesn't matter a whole lot unfortunately. Fair or unfair, it looks like he's doing things at WSU, similar to what he may or may not have done at TT, that have brought a TON of negative attention to the school and the program.

Fact or fiction, how do these new allegations make Jerry Kill look?

 

[scher215]

Fact or fiction, how do these new allegations make Jerry Kill look?

Not sure either option you've given to answer this question with would actually answer your question ... Either way, ill go with fiction here!

 

[Rosemountian]

Present and accounted for. I would still take them both over kill

I still say the same thing

 

[lakesgopher]

Present and accounted for. I would still take them both over kill

Not sure about edsall and all but I would take Leach over and over again instead of Kill. Im not upset over the Kill hire, but I think Leach is a brilliant coach. He's abrasive and an a**hole but he has a legit system that would have worked here.

 

[scher215]

Not sure about edsall and all but I would take Leach over and over again instead of Kill. Im not upset over the Kill hire, but I think Leach is a brilliant coach. He's abrasive and an a**hole but he has a legit system that would have worked here.

Agreed 100%. I like Kill, but Leach was the guy for me. I love passing and offense though.

I was a huge fan of the Brewster spread too though and wish he would have just stuck with it.

 

[GO4INLALALAND]

Not sure about edsall and all but I would take Leach over and over again instead of Kill. Im not upset over the Kill hire, but I think Leach is a brilliant coach. He's abrasive and an a**hole but he has a legit system that would have worked here.

Agreed. I am not sold on Edsall. I like Kill more than Edsall. But I would take Leach without hesitation over Kill. Leach can flat out coach and his offense is so much better than the crap we are running.

 

[scher215]

Agreed. I am not sold on Edsall. I like Kill more than Edsall. But I would take Leach without hesitation over Kill. Leach can flat out coach and his offense is so much better than the crap we are running.

Still think Edsall is extremely overrated.

I just hate running the ball. Running the ball is the equivalent of Wisconsin basketball to me.

That said, any offense can be successful with an awesome O-Line. Our backs had no where to run today.

 

[edma0012]

Our coach should be Charlie Strong right now....
this all falls on Maturi