24-hours later... looking back

[Spoofin]

I have had a day to decompress. I have no doubt this thread will turn to crap in short order too, but in the hope it can be a rational discussion for a short time, I decided to document what is on my mind 24-hours later, when I have had a chance to settle down a bit......

1. People on this board are a bit irrational. When your view of a player or team changes 180 degrees between game to game, you should step back and look at the big picture.

2.People on this board are passionate. That is good. The Gophers need passionate fans.

3.Coach Kill is a good coach. He is a very good coach. He won Coach of the Year in the B1G this year. To say he can’t win a big game, is out of his league in the B1G, etc. is just silly. He made some mistakes yesterday, but lets not get carried away (see point 1 above).

4.He probably should have been more aggressive at the end of the first half. However, there is a fairly good chance we would have got nothing from it, and in that situation if MO would have got something because of it that would have been the worst-case scenario. I can only imagine the outrage if that would have happened.

5.The fact that we didn’t go for it at the end of the first half is independent of them getting the onside kick to start the 2nd half. Too many people are trying to tie these together with Kill’s “we get the ball to start next half” statement. I even saw one CRAZY post that suggested MO’s coaches saw that interview and decided to do an onside kick because of it. I can guarantee you they saw something on tape and had practiced that play with the plan to do it for a while now. It is our coaches fault that we left that vulnerability - didn’t notice it and/or didn’t warn/defend against it. That play is the biggest issue I have with our coaches form yesterday.

6.Kill is very conservative. Limegrover is very conservative. Get used to it.

7.Liedner had a good game. However, recognize the passing game was successful when we could run or pass. As soon as we got to the point where we had to pass, we couldn’t. This is a talent issue. Trick Plays were not (and basically never are) the answer. The fact we couldn’t pass effectively when passing was our only option was not lost on the coaches and likely is another reason they didn’t want to risk anything at the end of the first half (keep it a 1-score game, don’t risk getting further behind)..

8.Berkely has to catch that ball. He has dropped half of the limited opportunities he has had this year. That is disturbing. He has speed, but may be a guy w/o a position if he can’t be effective running and is a liability in the pass game.

9.De’Vondre Campbell was absolutely awful yesterday. He could have / should have stopped the fake punt. That would have been HUGE. He could have / should have stopped the QB TD run, but was absolutely lost. He did not improve much between last year and this year and is a concern going into next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the Fr LB challenges him for a starting spot.

10.Marcus Jones’ fumbled punt, Berkely’s drop, De’Vondre’s mess-ups, Liedner’s overthrow of IF14, Mortell’s punting, and Liedner’s fumbles were not the fault of the Coaches and all played a bigger role in our loss than the coaches.

11.In the end, we made many mistakes - offense, defense, special teams, and coaching. Missouri has more talent and we will never win a game against a more talented team when we make that many mistakes. We will lose to many less talented teams if we play like that.

12.It was a fun year. I love the Gophers. I can’t wait until 2015.

 

[mplsbadger]

Good post. I agree with everything in it.

 

[Some guy]

My view of this team did not change at all. They are who I thought they were.

Even in perhaps Liedners best passing game, the guy loses two fumbles.
Team couldn't run the ball in quarters 2-4.
The same defensive breakdowns the team had against the spreads of Illinois, Purdue, and Ohio State killed them yesterday in the same way.
They played super conservative which has been their Attitude from the beginning.
The kicker who no longer kick through the endzone when he could week 1-4 has been joined by a punter who also seems to now have dead leg.
It is year 4 of jerry kill and a 3rd string running back (Edwards) is seemingly our best option at WR...so he played there and dropped the ball

I agree with you. Nothing in that game yesterday told me anything I didn't already know.
Hopefully Mitch can get a little better than the leaving pieces can be replaced.

 

[TexasAggie11]

The thing you don't see with a conservative coach is what might have gone wrong had they done something risky. You just don't know that their decision might have prevented a pick six. Especially if your team is outmatched, it doesn't hurt to play it safe and be consistent.

 

[FlaminGopher]

Tom Powers said it well in the Pioneer Press: A disappointing loss but there are good reasons to be optimistic about the future of the program. Looking forward to next season.

 

[Some guy]

The thing you don't see with a conservative coach is what might have gone wrong had they done something risky. You just don't know that their decision might have prevented a pick six. Especially if your team is outmatched, it doesn't hurt to play it safe and be consistent.

I agree. But if that is going to be your attitude you better not have a massive hole in your kick return scheme and give up an onside kick.


"We get the ball to start the second half"
-Jerry Kill

 

[oleboy41]

Campbell had a bad game but he's also played solidly most of the year. He has definitely improved from where he was last year (basically a passing down only guy) and should be better next year. I remember watching his JUCO film and seeing a guy that was a great athlete but not a natural LB. He's getting used to playing in the box and playing downhill.

 

[scools12]

#1 & #2 tie in to what happens frequently on this board. which is understandable but still quite the phenomenon.

Edwards was deemed a can't miss player that was going to change the whole offense. He has been injured but now he might be a "guy w/o a position". Next up Jeff Jones since he hasn't played the move has been made to the RS WRs as the next to change everything for the offense.

Soon the board will move on to the next big thing. Guessing that will be Denny Croft.

 

[GopherPD]

Outcome of game not unexpected. Gophers mistakes ultimately did them in. I'll leave the discussion about too conservative play calling to others. My concern is how inefficient the Gophers are when they need to be in hurry up mode. i'm not expecting Oregon like speed between plays but the Gophs have to work on organization and efficiency when time is short and they need to score.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

For the most part I agree with everything. I most agree with points 8-10. We shot ourselves in the foot, and that wasn't the fault of the coaches.

 

[GophersInIowa]

All around good post Spoofin.

 

[GophersInIowa]

#1 & #2 tie in to what happens frequently on this board. which is understandable but still quite the phenomenon.

Edwards was deemed a can't miss player that was going to change the whole offense. He has been injured but now he might be a "guy w/o a position". Next up Jeff Jones since he hasn't played the move has been made to the RS WRs as the next to change everything for the offense.

Soon the board will move on to the next big thing. Guessing that will be Denny Croft.

There is a difference between being excited about a recruit and saying he is the next Heisman candidate. You seem to be lumping the two together. A few people might go a little over the top but I don't think it's out of the ordinary to get excited about the potential of young players. Very few people said Edwards was a "can't miss player".

 

[e.bigelow]

All around good post Spoofin.

+1

 

[killme]

#1 & #2 tie in to what happens frequently on this board. which is understandable but still quite the phenomenon.

Edwards was deemed a can't miss player that was going to change the whole offense. He has been injured but now he might be a "guy w/o a position". Next up Jeff Jones since he hasn't played the move has been made to the RS WRs as the next to change everything for the offense.

Soon the board will move on to the next big thing. Guessing that will be Denny Croft.

Did you deem that? I recall hearing "lightening in a bottle" several times from JK, an obvious reference to Edwards' speed, which this program has been steadily trying to upgrade -- and is a necessary building block for what this staff believes can get us to the next level.

 

[jaymil]

I agree. But if that is going to be your attitude you better not have a massive hole in your kick return scheme and give up an onside kick.


"We get the ball to start the second half"
-Jerry Kill

It wasn't even close to a massive hole. It took a perfect kick and a good play by the Missouri player to recover it for the play to even work. Some people refuse to give credit to the other team, even once in a while.

 

[GopherHomer]

Great post! Let's not forget all the good/fun things that happened this year.

 

[jaymil]

Great post Spoofin. As the long wait during the offseason begins I am very, very excited about the future of the program.

 

[killme]

Many valid and rational points, Spoofin. Our margin for error is fairly small, but the fact that we made so many and still could have won the game with a couple of plays (as was the case in each of our losses) tells me there was significant progress this year, compared to when JK took over. I'm obviously a huge JK fan, but even he would like to have a couple of plays back. It's unlikely, from my perspective, that this program will ever be able to be so much more talented than good teams from the Power 5 conferences to win on a bad day.

 

[MGGopher]

Count me as another who agrees with everything you posted, Spoofin. I just got back from Orlando and was surprised at the meltdown on the board. I was disappointed the Gophers lost, but it didn't take me long to get over it. This wasn't a beatdown. These were two very evenly matched teams, one of which made clutch big play after big play, and the other of which continually shot itself in the foot with penalties, miscues, and near-misses on big plays. More often than not the past couple years, Minnesota is the team making big plays and capitalizing on opponent mistakes -- not the other way around. So while yesterday was disappointing (although a helluva good time at the stadium) I'm pleased with where the program has gotten and excited about where it's headed.

 

[mcal24]

I have had a day to decompress. I have no doubt this thread will turn to crap in short order too, but in the hope it can be a rational discussion for a short time, I decided to document what is on my mind 24-hours later, when I have had a chance to settle down a bit......

1. People on this board are a bit irrational. When your view of a player or team changes 180 degrees between game to game, you should step back and look at the big picture.

2.People on this board are passionate. That is good. The Gophers need passionate fans.

3.Coach Kill is a good coach. He is a very good coach. He won Coach of the Year in the B1G this year. To say he can’t win a big game, is out of his league in the B1G, etc. is just silly. He made some mistakes yesterday, but lets not get carried away (see point 1 above).

4.He probably should have been more aggressive at the end of the first half. However, there is a fairly good chance we would have got nothing from it, and in that situation if MO would have got something because of it that would have been the worst-case scenario. I can only imagine the outrage if that would have happened.

5.The fact that we didn’t go for it at the end of the first half is independent of them getting the onside kick to start the 2nd half. Too many people are trying to tie these together with Kill’s “we get the ball to start next half” statement. I even saw one CRAZY post that suggested MO’s coaches saw that interview and decided to do an onside kick because of it. I can guarantee you they saw something on tape and had practiced that play with the plan to do it for a while now. It is our coaches fault that we left that vulnerability - didn’t notice it and/or didn’t warn/defend against it. That play is the biggest issue I have with our coaches form yesterday.

6.Kill is very conservative. Limegrover is very conservative. Get used to it.

7.Liedner had a good game. However, recognize the passing game was successful when we could run or pass. As soon as we got to the point where we had to pass, we couldn’t. This is a talent issue. Trick Plays were not (and basically never are) the answer. The fact we couldn’t pass effectively when passing was our only option was not lost on the coaches and likely is another reason they didn’t want to risk anything at the end of the first half (keep it a 1-score game, don’t risk getting further behind)..

8.Berkely has to catch that ball. He has dropped half of the limited opportunities he has had this year. That is disturbing. He has speed, but may be a guy w/o a position if he can’t be effective running and is a liability in the pass game.

9.De’Vondre Campbell was absolutely awful yesterday. He could have / should have stopped the fake punt. That would have been HUGE. He could have / should have stopped the QB TD run, but was absolutely lost. He did not improve much between last year and this year and is a concern going into next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the Fr LB challenges him for a starting spot.

10.Marcus Jones’ fumbled punt, Berkely’s drop, De’Vondre’s mess-ups, Liedner’s overthrow of IF14, Mortell’s punting, and Liedner’s fumbles were not the fault of the Coaches and all played a bigger role in our loss than the coaches.

11.In the end, we made many mistakes - offense, defense, special teams, and coaching. Missouri has more talent and we will never win a game against a more talented team when we make that many mistakes. We will lose to many less talented teams if we play like that.

12.It was a fun year. I love the Gophers. I can’t wait until 2015.

Agree with everything. People freak out and blame whoever is convenient - which is the coaches. Too many mistakes, which is mostly on the players, not the coaches.

 

[GophersInIowa]

It wasn't even close to a massive hole. It took a perfect kick and a good play by the Missouri player to recover it for the play to even work. Some people refuse to give credit to the other team, even once in a while.

Exactly. While it could be a breakdown, my guess is we lined up that way all year, and it took a perfect kick and good bounce for it to work. Have to give them credit, it was just a great play.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

- As a fan I wanted Kill to go for it at the end of the first half, but I understand the decision not to. We go into half down 10-7 and get the ball back to start the second half. If we go for it and something bad happens, we go into half down 17-7 and they have the momentum, it's a huge hole to crawl out of. Anyone old enough to remember the 1999 Vikings NFC Championship game against Atlanta recalls how Dennis Green decided to go for it at the end of the half, Randall Cunningham got sacked, lost the ball and they scored a TD to go into half with the momentum and the lead. We were up 14-13 in the 3rd quarter despite losing the onside kick. What was puzzling was throwing into the flat for the completion and then not going for it. It seems like you would either pass the ball or not pass the ball.

- Campbell is what he is. He shies away from contact and will never be a stereotypical B1G linebacker. On that fake punt, he was so lost the cops were looking for him. They literally ran right up his gap and he was nowhere to be found. What he does do well is cover in pass coverage and create problems in the flats. The play that Mauk got injured on was an example of what he does well, with him getting all the way out to the sideline and stopping Mauk for no gain. When Mizzou gashed up the middle all through the 4th quarter, well that's an example of what he doesn't do well.

- Leidner played very well imo and gives me hope that he will continue to improve. He was absolutely stroking it in the 1st half. His only incompletion was that beautiful sideline strike to Cobb where he stepped out of bounds. It was a tough play for both Leidner and Cobb, so I'm not blaming Cobb, more pointing out how Leidner put that ball in the only spot possible for Cobb to catch it. All day Leidner hit guys in stride. His first fumble is on Jonah Pirsig imo. Pirsig stood there like the Jolly Green Giant as #33 raced past him to blindside Leidner. Payton Manning probably wouldn't have held onto that one.

- Mizzou was very good up the middle and shut down Cobb and the running game. We knew that and opened the game attacking the edges with RB screens, end arounds, etc. that were really working well. Then the mistakes started.

- Our DB's looked very good again, but there was a real momentum shift when Wells got KO'd. It felt like we lost some of our defensive swagger at that point going forward.

- Maxx....wow, what a play. As much as I want him to stay another year, I've resigned myself to hoping he gets drafted by the Pats and can start catching Tom Brady passes a la Gronkowski (Sp?). The best case scenario is for Maxx to tear up the league so our coaches can point to him while recruiting.

- Berkley Edwards is no lost cause. He'll be a big time contributor for us moving forward, but he has to catch that ball, period.

 

[maxwellsmart]

It wasn't even close to a massive hole. It took a perfect kick and a good play by the Missouri player to recover it for the play to even work. Some people refuse to give credit to the other team, even once in a while.

Thank you for this because it is all too true here. A lot of people talk football as though a single team takes the field and then selects every option available, from pace of game to how an imaginary opponent schemes its defense. And #6 in the original post is something all Gopher fans must deal with. We're an ultra-conservative team and likely to stay that way for a while. Anyone who expects somethjing different is only setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[Oregon Gopher]

Agree with all the posts pertaining to the optimism going forward into next year. As an aside had anybody seen an explanation for why Jones was punt receiving when he hadn't been back there for many games- and where was Wilson in the 4th qtr? He get hurt or ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Donovan]

Good post. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm sticking with my prediction that Berkley will be RB option #4 after Jones, Williams and Smith.

Someone mentioned Demry Croft, is his all-star game today going to be shown on TV?

 

[maxwellsmart]

- As a fan I wanted Kill to go for it at the end of the first half, but I understand the decision not to. We go into half down 10-7 and get the ball back to start the second half. If we go for it and something bad happens, we go into half down 17-7 and they have the momentum, it's a huge hole to crawl out of. Anyone old enough to remember the 1999 Vikings NFC Championship game against Atlanta recalls how Dennis Green decided to go for it at the end of the half, Randall Cunningham got sacked, lost the ball and they scored a TD to go into half with the momentum and the lead. We were up 14-13 in the 3rd quarter despite losing the onside kick. What was puzzling was throwing into the flat for the completion and then not going for it. It seems like you would either pass the ball or not pass the ball.

- Campbell is what he is. He shies away from contact and will never be a stereotypical B1G linebacker. On that fake punt, he was so lost the cops were looking for him. They literally ran right up his gap and he was nowhere to be found. What he does do well is cover in pass coverage and create problems in the flats. The play that Mauk got injured on was an example of what he does well, with him getting all the way out to the sideline and stopping Mauk for no gain. When Mizzou gashed up the middle all through the 4th quarter, well that's an example of what he doesn't do well.

- Leidner played very well imo and gives me hope that he will continue to improve. He was absolutely stroking it in the 1st half. His only incompletion was that beautiful sideline strike to Cobb where he stepped out of bounds. It was a tough play for both Leidner and Cobb, so I'm not blaming Cobb, more pointing out how Leidner put that ball in the only spot possible for Cobb to catch it. All day Leidner hit guys in stride. His first fumble is on Jonah Pirsig imo. Pirsig stood there like the Jolly Green Giant as #33 raced past him to blindside Leidner. Payton Manning probably wouldn't have held onto that one.

- Mizzou was very good up the middle and shut down Cobb and the running game. We knew that and opened the game attacking the edges with RB screens, end arounds, etc. that were really working well. Then the mistakes started.

- Our DB's looked very good again, but there was a real momentum shift when Wells got KO'd. It felt like we lost some of our defensive swagger at that point going forward.

- Maxx....wow, what a play. As much as I want him to stay another year, I've resigned myself to hoping he gets drafted by the Pats and can start catching Tom Brady passes a la Gronkowski (Sp?). The best case scenario is for Maxx to tear up the league so our coaches can point to him while recruiting.

- Berkley Edwards is no lost cause. He'll be a big time contributor for us moving forward, but he has to catch that ball, period.

+1. And, Mizzou was not only good up the middle, but they were very disciplined defensively. Came to stop Cobb and never lost focus, even as we achieved some passing success. Our wish to use edges and passing to open up the running game never developed. One announcer mentioned it in the context that a good defense can impact the game by deciding to take one thing away from their opponent and that's what they did. We were never able to be ourselves.

 

[STPGopher]

Agree with all the posts pertaining to the optimism going forward into next year. As an aside had anybody seen an explanation for why Jones was punt receiving when he hadn't been back there for many games- and where was Wilson in the 4th qtr? He get hurt or ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure, but my guess is Kill tried to sneak in a few of the seniors that don't see much action. We forget that even though Jones has struggled with punt returns, he had a few electrifying kick-off returns. Sad to see that happen to a senior who overcame so much and gave so much to this program.

 

[oleboy41]

#1 & #2 tie in to what happens frequently on this board. which is understandable but still quite the phenomenon.

Edwards was deemed a can't miss player that was going to change the whole offense. He has been injured but now he might be a "guy w/o a position". Next up Jeff Jones since he hasn't played the move has been made to the RS WRs as the next to change everything for the offense.

Soon the board will move on to the next big thing. Guessing that will be Denny Croft.

Don't recall many people claiming Edwards was can't miss. Everyone was excited about his speed because we lacked it. Most people hoped he'd get some touches and bring some explosiveness to the offense.

 

[jaymil]

Not sure, but my guess is Kill tried to sneak in a few of the seniors that don't see much action. We forget that even though Jones has struggled with punt returns, he had a few electrifying kick-off returns. Sad to see that happen to a senior who overcame so much and gave so much to this program.

I've seen some comments about James getting a stinger and that's why he missed part of the game. I highly doubt Kill would risk putting in a backup just because he's a senior.

 

[Halsey Hall]

The thing you don't see with a conservative coach is what might have gone wrong had they done something risky. You just don't know that their decision might have prevented a pick six. Especially if your team is outmatched, it doesn't hurt to play it safe and be consistent.

Aggie education?