24-hours later... looking back

[60's Guy]

Nice job spoof

I think I agree with most all your points.

Like some are saying: If Missouri tried that onside kick 100 times...that might be the only time it works. Perfect spot,
perfect height, perfect distance, and perfect timing for the designated man to recover inbounds. Give Missouri credit. Next play.

The fake punt with the punter standing on the goal line. See Sam Cassell cahunas dance from the Missouri coach.
We make the tackle and we very likely dominate all or at the very least the first half. Certainly we would be in complete control of the game if we punch in the 10-15 yard drive. That gave them life, turned their attitude dramatically.

Once again we got Leidner going with short passes and he was unimprovable for a long stretch passing. 13 completions in a row wouldn't seem possible unless you have seen it in practice. I think he will continue to get better.

How about this? I think we had the better quarterback versus the SEC Division champion? Then you look at Ohio State
and their Heisman candidate quarterback gets knocked out for the season. So, the backup steps in and he is better
than the Heisman candidate but he gets hurt. So the third team QB leads them to the Big Ten title 59 to nothing. And then passes them past the number one team in the country to the national championship. One team, three game changing quarterbacks and then you have Missouri and Minnesota. I will say this, it's taking longer than I anticipated but Leidner is getting better. Hopefully, they'll continue to work on the short passes to set up the deep throws.

We will be better next year!

 

[tikited]

Good post. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm sticking with my prediction that Berkley will be RB option #4 after Jones, Williams and Smith.

Someone mentioned Demry Croft, is his all-star game today going to be shown on TV?

I think Berkley will be the #4 guy by the end of the season. He will get many opportunities to play early and will be passed up by Smith imo.

 

[EliteOpinionGuy]

I have had a day to decompress. I have no doubt this thread will turn to crap in short order too, but in the hope it can be a rational discussion for a short time, I decided to document what is on my mind 24-hours later, when I have had a chance to settle down a bit......

1. People on this board are a bit irrational. When your view of a player or team changes 180 degrees between game to game, you should step back and look at the big picture.

2.People on this board are passionate. That is good. The Gophers need passionate fans.

3.Coach Kill is a good coach. He is a very good coach. He won Coach of the Year in the B1G this year. To say he can’t win a big game, is out of his league in the B1G, etc. is just silly. He made some mistakes yesterday, but lets not get carried away (see point 1 above).

4.He probably should have been more aggressive at the end of the first half. However, there is a fairly good chance we would have got nothing from it, and in that situation if MO would have got something because of it that would have been the worst-case scenario. I can only imagine the outrage if that would have happened.

5.The fact that we didn’t go for it at the end of the first half is independent of them getting the onside kick to start the 2nd half. Too many people are trying to tie these together with Kill’s “we get the ball to start next half” statement. I even saw one CRAZY post that suggested MO’s coaches saw that interview and decided to do an onside kick because of it. I can guarantee you they saw something on tape and had practiced that play with the plan to do it for a while now. It is our coaches fault that we left that vulnerability - didn’t notice it and/or didn’t warn/defend against it. That play is the biggest issue I have with our coaches form yesterday.

6.Kill is very conservative. Limegrover is very conservative. Get used to it.

7.Liedner had a good game. However, recognize the passing game was successful when we could run or pass. As soon as we got to the point where we had to pass, we couldn’t. This is a talent issue. Trick Plays were not (and basically never are) the answer. The fact we couldn’t pass effectively when passing was our only option was not lost on the coaches and likely is another reason they didn’t want to risk anything at the end of the first half (keep it a 1-score game, don’t risk getting further behind)..

8.Berkely has to catch that ball. He has dropped half of the limited opportunities he has had this year. That is disturbing. He has speed, but may be a guy w/o a position if he can’t be effective running and is a liability in the pass game.

9.De’Vondre Campbell was absolutely awful yesterday. He could have / should have stopped the fake punt. That would have been HUGE. He could have / should have stopped the QB TD run, but was absolutely lost. He did not improve much between last year and this year and is a concern going into next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the Fr LB challenges him for a starting spot.

10.Marcus Jones’ fumbled punt, Berkely’s drop, De’Vondre’s mess-ups, Liedner’s overthrow of IF14, Mortell’s punting, and Liedner’s fumbles were not the fault of the Coaches and all played a bigger role in our loss than the coaches.

11.In the end, we made many mistakes - offense, defense, special teams, and coaching. Missouri has more talent and we will never win a game against a more talented team when we make that many mistakes. We will lose to many less talented teams if we play like that.

12.It was a fun year. I love the Gophers. I can’t wait until 2015.

Decent post with one major correction. Please note that 2015 started yesterday. I am about to pre-order my bowl tickets today and start tailgating for the (pre-fall) scrimmage that happens in the spring. Can't wait to see these new freshman that we are all curious about and to see Jeff Jones get to finally earn the hype that most of us feel is deserved!

BrickByBrick

 

[Spoofin]

Great input from all. Glad I started this thread today. I was worried it would turn like the other threads on the game, but I suppose 24-hours later things are more clear for all. That includes for me.

Go Gophers!

 

[Mulligan]

Great input from all. Glad I started this thread today. I was worried it would turn like the other threads on the game, but I suppose 24-hours later things are more clear for all. That includes for me.

Go Gophers!

Thanks for starting it. Good original post and some good thoughtful responses. I get that people are passionate and get upset, but it's sort of depressing to get on GH last night and see the reaction of some. Also understand this staff isn't infallible, but the knee jerk butchers don't seem to give any credit for how far this program has come and the fact that the future looks bright.

 

[mnrat]

Demry Croft killed it in his allstar game today. Future looks good.

 

[Sparlimb]

For the most part I agree with everything. I most agree with points 8-10. We shot ourselves in the foot, and that wasn't the fault of the coaches.

Not being ready for trick plays is the fault of the coaches. We didn't look well prepared. Although we didn't look well prepared last year. I'm really confused why 3 weeks isn't enough time to prepare a team? We did play well for the 1st quarter. It just went to hell from there.

 

[vagopher]

Many valid and rational points, Spoofin. Our margin for error is fairly small, but the fact that we made so many and still could have won the game with a couple of plays (as was the case in each of our losses) tells me there was significant progress this year, compared to when JK took over. I'm obviously a huge JK fan, but even he would like to have a couple of plays back. It's unlikely, from my perspective, that this program will ever be able to be so much more talented than good teams from the Power 5 conferences to win on a bad day.

Why not? We were years ago.

 

[Unregistered User]

10....Mortell’s punting...

I don't agree with this.

5 punts, over a 40 yard average, 3 returned, 1 downed inside the 20, 1 touchback.

On the 3 punt returns, they totaled 8 yards, with a long of 9 yards, a 2.7 average.

Punting was not an issue.

 

[bottlebass]

I don't agree with this.

5 punts, over a 40 yard average, 3 returned, 1 downed inside the 20, 1 touchback.

On the 3 punt returns, they totaled 8 yards, with a long of 9 yards, a 2.7 average.

Punting was not an issue.

You are kidding right? Take away his first punt (the one downed at the 10 by a fair catch which was a good punt) and the rest were HORRIBLE. He only hit 1 for OK distance but it was still a low line drive rocket that was returned for a touchdown (yes called back due to penalty) because he out kicked his coverage. And don't even get me started on the touchback punt. Way to just kick it line drive straight into the end zone. Everyone around us at the game was commenting about how poorly Mortell's punts were. It was the first game all season where I thought the other teams kicking game was better than ours.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I understand the want and need to put a smiley face on yesterday but I think you are giving the coaches an undeserved pass in this case.

- We started the last drive of the first half at the 25 with 1:04 on the clock. If I recall we did a little Cobb dive. Then we completed a drag to Williams that he miraculously broke two tackles for a first down. Then we completed a 6 or 7 yard pass to Williams or Freuchte. All the while the clock was tick, tick, ticking.

- My question is if "they are just conservative and that's the way they are so deal with it", why the passes deep in our own territory. Passing in that area is certainly not risk-free. If they are "afraid to put the ball in Leidner's hands" then I'm stumped.

-Limegrover froze up as did Kill. It's ok, it happens. But as passionate fans don't excuse it. Every professional, including our coaches should be trying to get better every day. Peer review happens in my world and it works. It makes people strive to be better.

Don't get me wrong, I love Kill and the staff and they have all the tools to take us a long ways.

 

[bottlebass]

Looking back at our possession right before half I remember seeing both Cobb and Leidner visibly upset and yelling at the sidelines to get a play in. Why didn't one of them just call a time out? We had 3 time outs left, just completed a short pass, stop the clock with a time out. If the coaches still want to run the clock out they can call a running play the next down. If cobb our leidner gets to the sideline and convinces the coaches to try another play then they try another play. Just poor all around.

 

[Spoofin]

I don't agree with this.

5 punts, over a 40 yard average, 3 returned, 1 downed inside the 20, 1 touchback.

On the 3 punt returns, they totaled 8 yards, with a long of 9 yards, a 2.7 average.

Punting was not an issue.

Kill seldom takes a kid to task during a game - much less someone who is doing well. Kill absolutely tore into Mortell in the 4th - caught on TV. He may disagree with you that the punting wasn't a problem. Mortell likely would too.

 

[Spoofin]

I understand the want and need to put a smiley face on yesterday but I think you are giving the coaches an undeserved pass in this case.

I love how if someone isn't on the extreme irrational view-point that the folks who are will always play the 'moral victory' card. No one is giving them a pass, everyone is being critical, we just aren't on the "he sucks", "he won't ever win a big game", "he was scared", etc. train. Some folks need things black/white. Things very seldom are.

 

[killme]

Not being ready for trick plays is the fault of the coaches. We didn't look well prepared. Although we didn't look well prepared last year. I'm really confused why 3 weeks isn't enough time to prepare a team? We did play well for the 1st quarter. It just went to hell from there.

So we looked prepared to start the game, then made mistakes that led to the loss against a good team. Darn coaches should have been working on preparing the guys not to make mistakes. How foolish of them to coach them to turn the ball over. Fire 'em.

It seems like you would either pass the ball or not pass the ball.

- Campbell...shies away from contact...

- Leidner played very well...

- Mizzou was very good up the middle and shut down Cobb and the running game.

- Berkley Edwards is no lost cause. He'll be a big time contributor for us moving forward, but he has to catch that ball, period.

I still don't know what went on at the end of the first half. Odd.
Campbell comment is interesting. I don't recall seeing him with a big hit.
In hindsight we ran a few too many of our bread-and-butter inside running plays and should have jet-sweeped them to death. They were looping their DE's inside mostly.
Leidner's numbers were eye-popping, but it was the way he made several different throws. How many QBs miss that pass to Fruecte? I think he'll hit more of those next year. I thought if we had to pass we'd get killed because of their rush, which in hind sight was overrated.
If Berkley wants to be better, he ought to start catching 500 passes a day until spring.

Why not? We were years ago.

I just don't think we'll ever have a recruiting class like the elite programs. I just think the state's H.S. talent, the (perceived?) weather, and the national perception from young kids will keep us from those overloaded classes.

 

[cncmin]

Looking back at our possession right before half I remember seeing both Cobb and Leidner visibly upset and yelling at the sidelines to get a play in. Why didn't one of them just call a time out? We had 3 time outs left, just completed a short pass, stop the clock with a time out. If the coaches still want to run the clock out they can call a running play the next down. If cobb our leidner gets to the sideline and convinces the coaches to try another play then they try another play. Just poor all around.

yep. that was awful.

 

[LesBolstad]

Punting Was Awful

I don't agree with this.

5 punts, over a 40 yard average, 3 returned, 1 downed inside the 20, 1 touchback.

On the 3 punt returns, they totaled 8 yards, with a long of 9 yards, a 2.7 average.

Punting was not an issue.

Sorry you missed the game. Mortell was brutal. I will say our coverage was fantastic and covered up the bad punts. Funny, Mortell hasn't tweeted since the game. JK gave him an earfull twice after a couple line drive punts.

 

[Indi1006]

V

I understand the want and need to put a smiley face on yesterday but I think you are giving the coaches an undeserved pass in this case.

- We started the last drive of the first half at the 25 with 1:04 on the clock. If I recall we did a little Cobb dive. Then we completed a drag to Williams that he miraculously broke two tackles for a first down. Then we completed a 6 or 7 yard pass to Williams or Freuchte. All the while the clock was tick, tick, ticking.

- My question is if "they are just conservative and that's the way they are so deal with it", why the passes deep in our own territory. Passing in that area is certainly not risk-free. If they are "afraid to put the ball in Leidner's hands" then I'm stumped.

-Limegrover froze up as did Kill. It's ok, it happens. But as passionate fans don't excuse it. Every professional, including our coaches should be trying to get better every day. Peer review happens in my world and it works. It makes people strive to be better.

Don't get me wrong, I love Kill and the staff and they have all the tools to take us a long ways.

I agree with this post.

 

[Spoofin]

I agree with this post.

Shocking.

 

[WHB Brewer]

Not being ready for trick plays is the fault of the coaches. We didn't look well prepared. Although we didn't look well prepared last year. I'm really confused why 3 weeks isn't enough time to prepare a team? We did play well for the 1st quarter. It just went to hell from there.

Yep. Coaches better start planning for opponents snapping to 300lb d-lineman when facing 4th & 3 inside own 20yd line. Obvious key to game preparation.

What many are forgetting about this "trick play" costing us the game, is that this drive ended with a Missouri punt.

 

[Spoofin]

Yep. Coaches better start planning for opponents snapping to 300lb d-lineman when facing 4th & 3 inside own 20yd line. Obvious key to game preparation.

What many are forgetting about this "trick play" costing us the game, is that this drive ended with a Missouri punt.

Not to mention the D was in position to stop the fake punt. DC26 was there and made a terrible play on the ball carrier. If he makes the play (which he should have) does that mean the coaches prepared the players any better? Jimmys and Joes over Xs and Os.

 

[46Gophers]

Shocking.

I also agree with PE's post. His post didn't say "Kill sucks", "he'll never win a big game", "he was scared" it just pointed out where what the coaches did was very confusing. I agree that that sequence was very confusing and disappointing and where IMHO I think the coaches messed up. There were plenty of reasons why the game went the way it did and there are plenty of reasons why we should be optimistic for the future. If someone disagrees with you however, snarky comebacks don't help, they just may make this thread go to crap

 

[Spoofin]

If someone disagrees with you however, snarky comebacks don't help, they just may make this thread go to crap

Fair enough.

 

[WHB Brewer]

I have had a day to decompress. I have no doubt this thread will turn to crap in short order too, but in the hope it can be a rational discussion for a short time, I decided to document what is on my mind 24-hours later, when I have had a chance to settle down a bit......

1. People on this board are a bit irrational. When your view of a player or team changes 180 degrees between game to game, you should step back and look at the big picture.

2.People on this board are passionate. That is good. The Gophers need passionate fans.

3.Coach Kill is a good coach. He is a very good coach. He won Coach of the Year in the B1G this year. To say he can’t win a big game, is out of his league in the B1G, etc. is just silly. He made some mistakes yesterday, but lets not get carried away (see point 1 above).

4.He probably should have been more aggressive at the end of the first half. However, there is a fairly good chance we would have got nothing from it, and in that situation if MO would have got something because of it that would have been the worst-case scenario. I can only imagine the outrage if that would have happened.

5.The fact that we didn’t go for it at the end of the first half is independent of them getting the onside kick to start the 2nd half. Too many people are trying to tie these together with Kill’s “we get the ball to start next half” statement. I even saw one CRAZY post that suggested MO’s coaches saw that interview and decided to do an onside kick because of it. I can guarantee you they saw something on tape and had practiced that play with the plan to do it for a while now. It is our coaches fault that we left that vulnerability - didn’t notice it and/or didn’t warn/defend against it. That play is the biggest issue I have with our coaches form yesterday.

6.Kill is very conservative. Limegrover is very conservative. Get used to it.

7.Liedner had a good game. However, recognize the passing game was successful when we could run or pass. As soon as we got to the point where we had to pass, we couldn’t. This is a talent issue. Trick Plays were not (and basically never are) the answer. The fact we couldn’t pass effectively when passing was our only option was not lost on the coaches and likely is another reason they didn’t want to risk anything at the end of the first half (keep it a 1-score game, don’t risk getting further behind)..

8.Berkely has to catch that ball. He has dropped half of the limited opportunities he has had this year. That is disturbing. He has speed, but may be a guy w/o a position if he can’t be effective running and is a liability in the pass game.

9.De’Vondre Campbell was absolutely awful yesterday. He could have / should have stopped the fake punt. That would have been HUGE. He could have / should have stopped the QB TD run, but was absolutely lost. He did not improve much between last year and this year and is a concern going into next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the Fr LB challenges him for a starting spot.

10.Marcus Jones’ fumbled punt, Berkely’s drop, De’Vondre’s mess-ups, Liedner’s overthrow of IF14, Mortell’s punting, and Liedner’s fumbles were not the fault of the Coaches and all played a bigger role in our loss than the coaches.

11.In the end, we made many mistakes - offense, defense, special teams, and coaching. Missouri has more talent and we will never win a game against a more talented team when we make that many mistakes. We will lose to many less talented teams if we play like that.

12.It was a fun year. I love the Gophers. I can’t wait until 2015.

Great post and summary. I would add one more item to #9. After the Jones muffed punt, Mizzou QB threw an incomplete pass, only to have a roughing the passer penalty called on D.Wilson. It was clearly the right call. 2 plays later was the 18yd scramble for a TD.

What I will add as disappointment in the coaching staff, was Limegrover getting away from what seemed to be working in the 1st qtr. We started by attacking the edges with swing passes to Cobb (hadn't seen that all year) and a few sweeps. I don't know if Limegrover thought that was enough to loosen them up, especially after the 20yd run up the middle by R.Williams. But we returned to trying Cobb up the middle, which netted almost nothing. Would have been nice to see more swing passes and/or screens. We probably don't have enough mobility in our linemen to sustain it.