2024 MN High School Football thread

Donate To GopherHole
gwbbfan82 said:
Same for Roseville. This year Roseville & Hopkins are in the Maroon league which give a chance for 6A low tier teams to play teams like themselves. Roseville won 3 games. Hopkins won 3 games. Other teams in this league are Eastview & Burnsville who are probably the worst 4 teams in 6A. Osseo may join next year. Due to participation numbers & demographics of these schools they are not good. Roseville has 2300 students but most do not turn out for football and/or baseball and/or hockey. Roseville was once pretty good in these sports. Not anymore. How is it for Hopkins that their boy's basketball team is so good?
Click to expand...
Guys go there to play basketball. Same with Park Center.

The ongoing debate is whether or not the MSHSL should be using the reduced lunch formula or should they be using ACTUAL attendance numbers for classification.
 

gopher-revolution said:
Not sure how or who was on that committee, but our head coach proposed (I believe three years ago to the committee) a 4-team per section playoff w/ the teams who did not make it playing teams from other sections who also did not make it. We had a lot of backing from coaches, but not the committee. Stolsky went into his speech about the playoffs being "a new season", and another older, retired coach agreed, and it ended there. It was a committee meeting, not a coaches vote. It would be interesting to see what a coaches poll would reveal? I truly do not know the answer, but having talked to many current coaches in southeast corner, I haven't talked to one yet who likes the current "everyone makes the playoffs" format. It is a big turnoff for the 7 and 8 seeds who get their butts handed to them and then have to to get their players excited about next year. The kids are done at this point. I believe the health and future of high school football needs to be considered. Believe me, the 5-8 seeds have no illusion of grandeur that they are going to make a run at state. I also offer that I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of small schools in our area and I may certainly be missing the perspective of other areas and levels of play.
Click to expand...
You’re spot on. They did a survey and I don’t recall the results. MFCA leadership isn’t excited about a change and is obviously influential.

One less class of football would help their cause for change. There’s too many 5-6 team sections. They think they have hope.
 

disco said:
Guys go there to play basketball. Same with Park Center.

The ongoing debate is whether or not the MSHSL should be using the reduced lunch formula or should they be using ACTUAL attendance numbers for classification.
Click to expand...
They should. The difference in athletic participation and resources between these schools is very dramatic and in no way are on a level playing field

Lakeville North High1796
Washington Tech Secondary Magnet1766
Andover High School1758
Rogers Senior High1740
Harding Senior High1717
Irondale Senior High1706
 

Ope3 said:
Next year I think there needs to be thread for actual High School Football games/competition and rankings and another to deal with the ancillary stuff about Class-Section-District placement, enrollment, participation yada yada yada.
Click to expand...
Already stretching our limit on this forum😂
 




Mountain Iron -Buhl beat Bigfork 91-0? Is that for real?
(FinnGopher beat me to it!)
 


9-pl: most lopsided Mt Iron-Buhl 91, Bigfork 0 (1 over 8)
---closest: Littlefork-Big Falls 42, North Woods 38 (3 over 6)
--- 2 forfeits

1A: most lopsided: Goodhue 63, Bethlehem Academy 0 (1 over 8)
---closest: Sleepy Eye United 9, Martin County West 8 (4 over 5)
---2 forfeits

2A: most lopsided: Barnesville 60, Crookston 8 ( 1 over 8)
--- closest: Frazee 22, Park Rapids Area 21 (5 beats 4)
--- 0 forfeits

3A: most lopsided: Stewartville 57, Red Wing 6 (1 over 8)
--- closest: Howard Lake-Waverly-Winsted 16, Rockford 15 (3 over 6)
--- 0 forfeits

4A: most lopsided: Mound Westonka 47, Delano 0 (4 over 5)
--- closest: DeLaSalle 33, SMB 32 (4 over 5) / Fridley 7, Camden 6 (5 beats 4)
--- 1 forfeit

5A: most lopsided: Apple Valley 35, Bloomington Kennedy 0 (4 over 5) / and Hastings 35, Bloomington Jefferson 0 (3 over 6)
--- closest: Chaska 13, Waconia 12 in OT (5 over 4)
--- 0 forfeits

total upsets all classes:
5 beats 4 = 17 times
6 beats 3 = 1 time

no 7 or 8 seeds won a game.
 




Wally said:
That makes no sense.
Why wouldn't you forfeit at the half or earlier?
Click to expand...
From a coach.

Unless my Seniors are asking to quit, I am allowing them to play every play they want to on their last game they will ever put pads on.

We owe it to the kids to allow them to go out on their own, not make the choice for them. Regardless of what it may look like
 

Ranger692 said:
From a coach.

Unless my Seniors are asking to quit, I am allowing them to play every play they want to on their last game they will ever put pads on.

We owe it to the kids to allow them to go out on their own, not make the choice for them. Regardless of what it may look like
Click to expand...
How about just player safety.
I imagine they were getting absolutely pummeled all game.

Sometimes the adults need to step up.

If it was any other sport my answer would be different.
 

Wally said:
That makes no sense.
Why wouldn't you forfeit at the half or earlier?
Click to expand...
If the players don't want to forfeit then you play it out with things like running time or shortened quarters.
 



gwbbfan82 said:
Same for Roseville. This year Roseville & Hopkins are in the Maroon league which give a chance for 6A low tier teams to play teams like themselves. Roseville won 3 games. Hopkins won 3 games. Other teams in this league are Eastview & Burnsville who are probably the worst 4 teams in 6A. Osseo may join next year. Due to participation numbers & demographics of these schools they are not good. Roseville has 2300 students but most do not turn out for football and/or baseball and/or hockey. Roseville was once pretty good in these sports. Not anymore. How is it for Hopkins that their boy's basketball team is so good?
Click to expand...
Because in basketball you only need 8 kids to be state champs

In football your need 30-40
 

We're down to the Section Semi Final round in all classes.

There are 53 teams with losing records remaining. (There were 4 teams with winning records that lost last night.)

6A= 13 (Playoffs start with section semi-final round)
5A= 9
4A= 10 (Mpls. Camden and Detroit Lakes lost with winning records)
3A= 6
2A= 6 (Randolph was 7-1 #5 seed in stacked section and lost)
1A= 7
9P= 2 (Alden-Conger)

If teams with winning records were only eligible for playoffs here would be the numbers.

6A= 19 of 32
5A= 23 of 45
4A= 24 of 44
3A= 26 of 53
2A= 27 of 50
1A= 25 or 54
9P= 31 of 57
 

Wally said:
How about just player safety.
I imagine they were getting absolutely pummeled all game.

Sometimes the adults need to step up.

If it was any other sport my answer would be different.
Click to expand...
Safety is at the front of every good Coaching staffs mind at all times... In a game like that the JV of the winning team sometimes is better than the loosing teams varsity players... And maybe they weren't getting pummeled, but their defense was broken...

I called several plays last Wednesday where I knew we would score because the defense lined up and they had no force defender, we had FIVE 1 play drives... The physicality of our game was equal, we were actually outsized, but their scheme was bad.

Without witnessing it we are both just talking... I imagine if kids were getting hurt the game would have been called by the officials, They also will step in and ask if that's what you want to do. I have been on both sides of it.
 

Ranger692 said:
Safety is at the front of every good Coaching staffs mind at all times... In a game like that the JV of the winning team sometimes is better than the loosing teams varsity players... And maybe they weren't getting pummeled, but their defense was broken...

I called several plays last Wednesday where I knew we would score because the defense lined up and they had no force defender, we had FIVE 1 play drives... The physicality of our game was equal, we were actually outsized, but their scheme was bad.

Without witnessing it we are both just talking... I imagine if kids were getting hurt the game would have been called by the officials, They also will step in and ask if that's what you want to do. I have been on both sides of it.
Click to expand...
Well said. Players getting hurt and a team getting blown out are very different things.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
We're down to the Section Semi Final round in all classes.

There are 53 teams with losing records remaining. (There were 4 teams with winning records that lost last night.)

6A= 13 (Playoffs start with section semi-final round)
5A= 9
4A= 10 (Mpls. Camden and Detroit Lakes lost with winning records)
3A= 6
2A= 6 (Randolph was 7-1 #5 seed in stacked section and lost)
1A= 7
9P= 2 (Alden-Conger)

If teams with winning records were only eligible for playoffs here would be the numbers.

6A= 19 of 32
5A= 23 of 45
4A= 24 of 44
3A= 26 of 53
2A= 27 of 50
1A= 25 or 54
9P= 31 of 57
Click to expand...

For Sec 1AAAAA probably if the .500 rule was in place, could have just gone to:

#2 Roch JM (6-2) @ #1 Owatonna (8-0)

#3 Northfield (3-5)
#4 New Prague (3-6)

#5 Roch Century was already eliminated by NP, beating then for the 2nd time this year.

Of Northfield's & NPs 6 overall wins, 3 have been against winless Century, plus Northfield beat NP. Other 2 were Northfield over Faribault and NP over St Cloud Tech in crossover games.

Even as a Northfield fan, it would not be the biggest injustice if they were not given a chance to redeem themselves against JM this Saturday. Earlier game in Northfield it was close at Half (7-6) but the Rockets turned it into a modest 28-6 blow out.

I'd give the Raiders a punchers chance, 10-15%, of springing the upset.

Apparently, JM has fortified their roster with a few transfers from Century.
 

obviously, there is no way to make this a rule - but, in a clear blowout, the winning team should pull its starters as soon as it becomes evident that the game is no contest.

I've heard the argument that "we need to give the kids enough reps to get them ready for the next round" and so forth. but in a game that one-sided, you're not getting quality reps.

about 30 years ago, there was a rule in Iowa where, if one team was 50 points ahead, the game ended. so I saw coaches who would pull their starters in the 2nd quarter to ensure that the game at least went into the second half.

I remember a playoff game I did on radio in Wisconsin. 1st play of the game, the favored team ran a basic fullback dive. went for 80 yards and a TD. I turned to my color man and said, "this game's over. the only thing left to decide is the final score." and I was right.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
obviously, there is no way to make this a rule - but, in a clear blowout, the winning team should pull its starters as soon as it becomes evident that the game is no contest.

I've heard the argument that "we need to give the kids enough reps to get them ready for the next round" and so forth. but in a game that one-sided, you're not getting quality reps.

about 30 years ago, there was a rule in Iowa where, if one team was 50 points ahead, the game ended. so I saw coaches who would pull their starters in the 2nd quarter to ensure that the game at least went into the second half.

I remember a playoff game I did on radio in Wisconsin. 1st play of the game, the favored team ran a basic fullback dive. went for 80 yards and a TD. I turned to my color man and said, "this game's over. the only thing left to decide is the final score." and I was right.
Click to expand...
MN 9 player used to have a mercy rule of 45 I believe.

Most coaches pull starters at half time and might give starters the first drive of the second half. The questions is how much of a lead is comfortable? I think four scores, but some might thank more.
 

There are games that offer nothing but embarrassment and potential injury and would be better off not being played . . . but you need to be careful with that philosophy. A few years back my son's team was a #6 seed against a #3 seed that had put them into running time in the fourth quarter just 18 days earlier . . . and managed to upset them.
 

It is a tough issue, but at least for me remembering when I was younger, football was such a passion I couldn't imagine giving up a chance to play my last game. If blowouts are the issue, call the game at half or running time. Player safety makes it tougher. But football is game where serious injuries happen all over the field and most of the time it isn't bigger stronger players smashing someone with a big hit. It is freak things like getting a knee rolled up on, hands smashed between helmets, or ankles folded over at the bottom of a pile. But if a coach thinks his players are in danger out there or the kids don't want to play than forfeit is probably the right thing.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
obviously, there is no way to make this a rule - but, in a clear blowout, the winning team should pull its starters as soon as it becomes evident that the game is no contest.

I've heard the argument that "we need to give the kids enough reps to get them ready for the next round" and so forth. but in a game that one-sided, you're not getting quality reps.

about 30 years ago, there was a rule in Iowa where, if one team was 50 points ahead, the game ended. so I saw coaches who would pull their starters in the 2nd quarter to ensure that the game at least went into the second half.

I remember a playoff game I did on radio in Wisconsin. 1st play of the game, the favored team ran a basic fullback dive. went for 80 yards and a TD. I turned to my color man and said, "this game's over. the only thing left to decide is the final score." and I was right.
Click to expand...
Any coach who says. "we need to give the kids enough reps to get them ready for the next round" is not good. Executing against significantly inferior teams usually does not improve anything and can actually reinforce poor technique. Iron, not butter, sharpens iron.

Not to mention, you are asshole for rubbing your opponent's face in it.
 

WoodburyTim said:
It is a tough issue, but at least for me remembering when I was younger, football was such a passion I couldn't imagine giving up a chance to play my last game. If blowouts are the issue, call the game at half or running time. Player safety makes it tougher.
Click to expand...
Same here. The other tough thing is that when you have the 3rd or 4th stringers in (probably not so much in 9-man because there wouldn't be that many kids), you can't realistically tell them to not try. Those guys worked all year too.

I coached a game a few years ago when we were up 35, which in this youth league mandates running time. Then we got a pick six. I just cringed, but you can't tell a kid don't pick them off.
Then one of the crusty old guys on the association board said to me "you better only give the ball to kids that can barely run."

I did that, and THAT kid scored too. Like I'm going to tell him to not do his best?
 

disco said:
Same here. The other tough thing is that when you have the 3rd or 4th stringers in (probably not so much in 9-man because there wouldn't be that many kids), you can't realistically tell them to not try. Those guys worked all year too.

I coached a game a few years ago when we were up 35, which in this youth league mandates running time. Then we got a pick six. I just cringed, but you can't tell a kid don't pick them off.
Then one of the crusty old guys on the association board said to me "you better only give the ball to kids that can barely run."

I did that, and THAT kid scored too. Like I'm going to tell him to not do his best?
Click to expand...
Very true. Anytime I hear someone complain about a lopsided score, i simply ask when they pulled their starters. I've been on both ends of ass whoopings and sometimes there's nothing you can do but chew on your nails and hope the clock keeps running.
 

prespsguy said:
Very true. Anytime I hear someone complain about a lopsided score, i simply ask when they pulled their starters. I've been on both ends of ass whoopings and sometimes there's nothing you can do but chew on your nails and hope the clock keeps running.
Click to expand...
In the end it comes down to the coach and how they handle the lopsided situation. In football, if you are up big and still chucking it deep or running trick plays you are an ahole. If you are up big and handing it off or running short passes meant to keep drives alive and the other team can't stop you then that is on them. You still have to let the kids play you just have to be smart about how you do it.

In basketball, you make sure your team is passing, get shots for the guys that don't score much, don't press or run fast breaks. In baseball, stop stealing bases and make the hitters move the runners up, stuff like that.

Blowouts suck for coaches on both sides of it.
 

Games I find interesting or should be good games.

Mankato East and West Rematch.
Chanhassen and Chaska Rematch
Can Two Rivers keep winning?
Hutch is down, can St. Peter pull the upset?
Princeton vs Rocori
Mpls. North and St. Croix Lutheran
Section 4 2A games
Blooming Prairie and Fillmore Central Rematch of week to OT game.
Blaine and Rosemount (Rosemount won this game 51-7 last year and they are flipping rolls this year in a 3-6 game.)
Wayzata vs Lakeville South
Mayo vs Centennial
Champlin vs East Ridge
 

MNVCGUY said:
In the end it comes down to the coach and how they handle the lopsided situation. In football, if you are up big and still chucking it deep or running trick plays you are an ahole. If you are up big and handing it off or running short passes meant to keep drives alive and the other team can't stop you then that is on them. You still have to let the kids play you just have to be smart about how you do it.

In basketball, you make sure your team is passing, get shots for the guys that don't score much, don't press or run fast breaks. In baseball, stop stealing bases and make the hitters move the runners up, stuff like that.

Blowouts suck for coaches on both sides of it.
Click to expand...
Spot on. My kid's basketball team was on the losing side of a blowout last season. Opposing coach had to take one of their guys aside and tell him to stop chucking up threes or he was going to be benched for the rest of the day for being a poor sport.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Games I find interesting or should be good games.

Mankato East and West Rematch.
Chanhassen and Chaska Rematch
Can Two Rivers keep winning?
Hutch is down, can St. Peter pull the upset?
Princeton vs Rocori
Mpls. North and St. Croix Lutheran
Section 4 2A games
Blooming Prairie and Fillmore Central Rematch of week to OT game.
Blaine and Rosemount (Rosemount won this game 51-7 last year and they are flipping rolls this year in a 3-6 game.)
Wayzata vs Lakeville South
Mayo vs Centennial
Champlin vs East Ridge
Click to expand...
I have a sneaky feeling the Edina-White Bear Lake game will be a lot closer than people may assume.
 

disco said:
Spot on. My kid's basketball team was on the losing side of a blowout last season. Opposing coach had to take one of their guys aside and tell him to stop chucking up threes or he was going to be benched for the rest of the day for being a poor sport.
Click to expand...
A few years ago I was coaching a high school basketball game and we were up 50. In the second half one of my players made a basket cut and was wide open. Her teammate did not pass her the ball as I instructed them there was only one or two specific way they could score, and this was not one of them. The opposing coach yelled at me from his bench, "Come on man, she's wide open, score!"

After the game I confusingly apologized to him as we were not intending to disrespect them. He responded, "Listen coach, my team won't get any better by being pitied. They need to know where they are and what they need to do better".

I'm still not sure I agree with him, but I respected his position.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom